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Post by zbeeblebrox on Feb 3, 2021 8:12:23 GMT
UpdateRey may have a serious personal stake in Zimmy's stance regarding people who've done bad things in the past not deserving to be happy.
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Post by Fishy on Feb 3, 2021 8:26:54 GMT
"If they could remember her, they would be glad she is gone."
That's my guess, anyway.
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Post by Dvandaemon on Feb 3, 2021 8:31:04 GMT
I'm laughing at "is this how they think I act?"
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Post by madjack on Feb 3, 2021 8:35:14 GMT
It's official, Zimmy made Boxbot.
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Post by OrzBrain on Feb 3, 2021 8:40:26 GMT
It's official, Zimmy made Boxbot. That's why Boxbot is so awesome! 😎 |
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Post by foxurus on Feb 3, 2021 9:02:12 GMT
Jeez Gamma. You think she might deserve to not be happy? That seems like a detached way to talk about someone you love. Is Gamma getting into philosophy or sommin?
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Post by speedwell on Feb 3, 2021 9:59:35 GMT
Jeez Gamma. You think she might deserve to not be happy? That seems like a detached way to talk about someone you love. Is Gamma getting into philosophy or sommin? She may be questioning, a little, her need to take on so much of Zimmy's emotional labour. (And, not coincidentally, asking whether she herself deserves happiness.) I am really enjoying this high-level, parenting-class connection between Renard and Gamma, by the way <3 |
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Post by speedwell on Feb 3, 2021 10:05:35 GMT
Folks, if you are someone who thinks you don't deserve to be happy, whether you did something in the past or whether something was done to you (it doesn't matter, and you may not be good at telling the difference), consider this.
I do EFT "tapping", which a therapist taught me several years ago. Part of the process is to recite that "I completely and unconditionally love myself". At the time I did not feel that was true even a little bit, to the point where I was offended by the requirement to say so. My therapist did not correct me. She simply asked me to notice that some things felt good and other things felt bad. At my next session she asked me *why* some things felt good and others bad, and I had the insight that I *wanted* to feel good and not bad. In order to have that want, I needed to have some self-respect and to believe that I deserved to feel good and not bad.
In other words, thinking you don't deserve to be happy is a defense mechanism that is not literally true. We all think we deserve to be happy, when challenged. What is really going on is internalised anger, frustration, shame, and self-punishment, which is pathological. Even Zimmy would be better off if someone stopped her from punishing herself, no matter how horrible her past was.
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Post by Vuk(Wolf) on Feb 3, 2021 10:52:13 GMT
So even Gamma isn't privy to Zimmy's past.
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Post by pyradonis on Feb 3, 2021 11:23:04 GMT
"If they could remember her, they would be glad she is gone." That's my guess, anyway. My wild theory is she turned them into monsters or other mindless creatures.
So even Gamma isn't privy to Zimmy's past. Zimmy probably thinks Gamma would leave her if she knew. |
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Post by saardvark on Feb 3, 2021 12:10:01 GMT
Jeez Gamma. You think she might deserve to not be happy? That seems like a detached way to talk about someone you love. Is Gamma getting into philosophy or sommin? She may be questioning, a little, her need to take on so much of Zimmy's emotional labour. (And, not coincidentally, asking whether she herself deserves happiness.) I am really enjoying this high-level, parenting-class connection between Renard and Gamma, by the way <3 Gamma is revealed to be a much deeper thinker than was clear before... |
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Post by wies on Feb 3, 2021 13:09:59 GMT
Renard has quite changed since from his days calling Zimmy "a demon".
Intrigued by Gamma's question. A lot going on there.
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Post by ohthatone on Feb 3, 2021 13:19:44 GMT
Is anyone else a little thrown by Rey's sudden change in attitude towards zimmy? "Why does she hate herself so"? I dunno, man, maybe when people call her a demon and recoil around her, she might internalize it a bit.
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Post by Bo No Bo on Feb 3, 2021 14:49:37 GMT
Gamma seeming to 'admit' Zimmy might not deserve happiness does feel weirdly out of character, and has me mulling options:
1. Gamma is ensnaring Rey into an emotional/ logical defense of Zimmy that challenges his long-standing characterization of Zimmy as a demon, even up to this very chapter, so that he sees he's treated her unfairly
2. Gamma's closeness w/ Zimmy has been strained by their absolute dependence over the years, and is starting to consider if Zimmy needs to seek her own guidance in finding her own happiness, as Gamma has only managed to soothe the issues Zimmy constantly swims within
3. THIS Gamma and Rey are ALSO false, and are only one additional layer within the Zimmyverse *starts wheeling out the conspiracy whiteboard*
4. I'm misunderstanding what Gamma is saying in this context
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Post by ohthatone on Feb 3, 2021 15:15:55 GMT
Maybe the "find yourself" title is referring to gamma understanding why she does what she does for zimmy.
Her question of what if its true that some people are just so irredeemable they dont deserve happiness comes off to me as questioning herself. She is the only thing that makes zimmy happy. She loves zimmy. Zimmy loves her. I dont think she has any mind to leave zimmy but may have lost the reason why.
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Post by DonDueed on Feb 3, 2021 15:30:24 GMT
Folks, if you are someone who thinks you don't deserve to be happy, whether you did something in the past or whether something was done to you (it doesn't matter, and you may not be good at telling the difference), consider this. I do EFT "tapping", which a therapist taught me several years ago. Part of the process is to recite that "I completely and unconditionally love myself". At the time I did not feel that was true even a little bit, to the point where I was offended by the requirement to say so. My therapist did not correct me. She simply asked me to notice that some things felt good and other things felt bad. At my next session she asked me *why* some things felt good and others bad, and I had the insight that I *wanted* to feel good and not bad. In order to have that want, I needed to have some self-respect and to believe that I deserved to feel good and not bad. In other words, thinking you don't deserve to be happy is a defense mechanism that is not literally true. We all think we deserve to be happy, when challenged. What is really going on is internalised anger, frustration, shame, and self-punishment, which is pathological. Even Zimmy would be better off if someone stopped her from punishing herself, no matter how horrible her past was. I'm glad things are better for you now, speedwell. |
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Post by ctso74 on Feb 3, 2021 15:58:02 GMT
I'm laughing at "is this how they think I act?" "And do I sound like that? I don't think he's doing my voice correctly." |
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Post by TBeholder on Feb 3, 2021 17:46:32 GMT
It's official, Zimmy made Boxbot. "If they could remember her, they would be glad she is gone." That's my guess, anyway. My wild theory is she turned them into monsters or other mindless creatures. And people thought being turned into a newt was a horrible fate… Is anyone else a little thrown by Rey's sudden change in attitude towards zimmy? "Why does she hate herself so"? Why change? For him, Zimmy is still highly disturbing, just on one more level now. Also, Renard is ever curious… he has a chance to poke his nose into this mess and has nothing better to do for now. |
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Post by mturtle7 on Feb 3, 2021 18:38:39 GMT
OH SHIT
ZIMMY ORIGIN STORY COMING UP
I honestly never expected that we would learn stuff about WHY Zimmy has these crazy powers, but if I understand Gamma's statement correctly, it seems like we're actually going to getting at LEAST a glimpse of that in the near future! I'M SO HYPED.
Also, good lord that last line is ominous. I have a feeling we're about to get a disturbing reminder that Gamma isn't ACTUALLY all sunshine and smiles, she just happens to kind of appear that way when compared with Zimmy, and that's obviously not saying much! Her mind might be, um...kind of a dark place, actually...
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Post by Gemminie on Feb 3, 2021 18:42:08 GMT
My wild theory is she turned them into monsters or other mindless creatures. I was thinking she did something to put them in comas. Your idea's more colorful. So ... Zimmy knows that Gamma knows she did something so terrible that she'd leave her if she knew what it was, but that Gamma doesn't know exactly what it was, and because of that she doesn't leave her? I know emotions don't really follow logical rules, but ... OK it's hard to explain what I'm trying to say. So, imaginary conversation between Gamma and Zimmy. G: I know you did something terrible before we met, but I'm still not leaving you. So what was it? Z: I'm not tellin' you because you'd leave me! G: So it's something so terrible that you're afraid I'd leave you if you told me. But now I know how terrible it was, and I'm still not leaving you. What was it? Z: Still not tellin' you. You'd leave me. G: So ... even though I know it's "you'd-leave-me" level bad, I'm still not leaving, and still you won't tell me what it was? Z: Pretty much, yeah. G: This is really because you feel really bad about it and want to go on beating yourself up about it, isn't it? Z: Pretty much, yeah. |
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Post by ditchboyus on Feb 3, 2021 20:22:34 GMT
<abbr data-timestamp="1612377728000" title="Feb 3, 2021 10:42:08 GMT -8" class="o-timestamp time">Feb 3, 2021 10:42:08 GMT -8</abbr>So ... Zimmy knows that Gamma knows she did something so terrible that she'd leave her if she knew what it was, but that Gamma doesn't know exactly what it was, and because of that she doesn't leave her? I know emotions don't really follow logical rules, but ... OK it's hard to explain what I'm trying to say. So, imaginary conversation between Gamma and Zimmy. G: I know you did something terrible before we met, but I'm still not leaving you. So what was it? Z: I'm not tellin' you because you'd leave me! G: So it's something so terrible that you're afraid I'd leave you if you told me. But now I know how terrible it was, and I'm still not leaving you. What was it? Z: Still not tellin' you. You'd leave me. G: So ... even though I know it's "you'd-leave-me" level bad, I'm still not leaving, and still you won't tell me what it was? Z: Pretty much, yeah. G: This is really because you feel really bad about it and want to go on beating yourself up about it, isn't it? Z: Pretty much, yeah. Even if Gamma were to say she wouldn't leave no matter what it was, Zimmy can't know that, and Gamma can't really know that, without Gamma knowing what Zimmy did. Because it could be something much worse than Gamma is imagining when she says she'd never leave. |
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Post by imaginaryfriend on Feb 3, 2021 20:48:20 GMT
Thing I said before about Zeta's parents, just in case anyone missed it.
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Post by foxurus on Feb 3, 2021 22:40:52 GMT
Gamma seeming to 'admit' Zimmy might not deserve happiness does feel weirdly out of character, and has me mulling options: 1. Gamma is ensnaring Rey into an emotional/ logical defense of Zimmy that challenges his long-standing characterization of Zimmy as a demon, even up to this very chapter, so that he sees he's treated her unfairly 2. Gamma's closeness w/ Zimmy has been strained by their absolute dependence over the years, and is starting to consider if Zimmy needs to seek her own guidance in finding her own happiness, as Gamma has only managed to soothe the issues Zimmy constantly swims within 3. THIS Gamma and Rey are ALSO false, and are only one additional layer within the Zimmyverse *starts wheeling out the conspiracy whiteboard* 4. I'm misunderstanding what Gamma is saying in this context 2 or 3 are my suspicion. If Zimmy and Gamma are on the road to a breakup, Zimmy's subsequent breakdown would have a pretty major impact on Gunnerkrigg Court, so I can't really see Tom going that route unless it ties in with the Omega Project or is part of the final conflict some other way. Maybe the "find yourself" title is referring to gamma understanding why she does what she does for zimmy. Her question of what if its true that some people are just so irredeemable they dont deserve happiness comes off to me as questioning herself. She is the only thing that makes zimmy happy. She loves zimmy. Zimmy loves her. I dont think she has any mind to leave zimmy but may have lost the reason why. I don't know about that, exactly. Playing in the rain, chasing rats and spiders, talking with Annies, and solving people's problems all make Zimmy happy. (Admittedly, two of those also decrease her static, but she seems to enjoy them beyond the relief they give her.) Gamma's presence is required for Zimmy to be high-functioning enough to be able to enjoy those things, but when you're on anti-depressants and you have fun gardening again, it's not only the anti-depressants that are making you happy. |
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Post by pyradonis on Feb 3, 2021 23:17:25 GMT
My wild theory is she turned them into monsters or other mindless creatures. I was thinking she did something to put them in comas. Your idea's more colorful. So ... Zimmy knows that Gamma knows she did something so terrible that she'd leave her if she knew what it was, but that Gamma doesn't know exactly what it was, and because of that she doesn't leave her?[...] Even Simba in The Lion King tells Timon and Pumbaa that he did something terrible, but not what it is. Yes, that's the first example that came to my mind. Sue me.  |
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jocobo
Junior Member
Posts: 78 
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Post by jocobo on Feb 4, 2021 0:08:29 GMT
Oh man, I have a feeling this chapter is going to be rough for me. Self-resentment feels like my best friend sometimes.
"But what if it's true?" So short, such simple words. But absolutely devastating, especially when you ask them to yourself. Once the seed of doubt is planted, it's so hard to uproot.
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Post by DonDueed on Feb 4, 2021 1:40:16 GMT
Just how old is Zimmy, anyway?
We know that she hasn't aged at all during the entire run of the comic, even though all the other students have done so quite obviously -- and that includes Gamma.
We know Gamma met Zimmy in Birmingham some time before the start of the comic. I know I assumed that the two strange girls were about the same age when they met. But that's questionable. Maybe Zimmy has been around for decades. Or centuries.
Maybe the terrible thing Zimmy won't reveal isn't something that could be done by a little girl a few years ago. Maybe it's something far more sinister, far longer ago.
Was Zimmy Jack the Ripper? Did she accuse her parents of witchcraft back when that could have led to their deaths? I know Tom has made statements about Zimmy's parents not remembering her, which seems to suggest they are still alive, but that could be misdirection; after all, if they're dead they wouldn't remember her.
Maybe this should be in Wildspec, but Gamma's comments here got me thinking.
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Post by Runningflame on Feb 4, 2021 1:56:56 GMT
Also, good lord that last line is ominous. I have a feeling we're about to get a disturbing reminder that Gamma isn't ACTUALLY all sunshine and smiles, she just happens to kind of appear that way when compared with Zimmy, and that's obviously not saying much! Her mind might be, um...kind of a dark place, actually... |
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Post by pyradonis on Feb 4, 2021 13:11:19 GMT
We know that she hasn't aged at all during the entire run of the comic. You mean she hasn't visibly grown. I would hesitate to claim she hasn't aged. |
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Post by philman on Feb 4, 2021 16:30:14 GMT
Jeez Gamma. You think she might deserve to not be happy? That seems like a detached way to talk about someone you love. Is Gamma getting into philosophy or sommin? Huh, everyone else here seems to have read that line as Gamma wondering if Zimmy deserves to be unhappy, which seems a bit harsh. I read it more as Gamma starting to question what the "bad thing" was, rather than thinking Zimmy deserves it. Until now she just took it as Zimmy's general over-exaggeration of everything negative, and is now wondering if Zimmy was telling the truth about the scale of whatever the bad thing was. Maybe her questioning what the "bad thing" was is why she isn't in Zimmingham this time. She is distancing herself more from Zimmy while she finds out more about what she wants herself, as well as more about Zimmy. |
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Post by machiavelli33 on Feb 4, 2021 17:30:00 GMT
I don't know if Gamma is implicating that Zimmy doesn't deserve to be unhappy.
I think she's only thinking that "some people don't deserve to be happy" might be true - but there's nothing to say "some people" includes Zimmy for her, even though for Zimmy it DEFINITELY includes Zimmy.
She clearly loves Zimmy more than Zimmy loves herself - that much is baldly clear.
All this said - this is something I've realized we haven't really gotten in this comic much up until now: Gamma's perspective. That's pretty cool.
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