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Post by novia on Jan 27, 2021 15:19:37 GMT
inb4 Renard jumps in the plushie pile
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Post by The Anarch on Jan 27, 2021 15:59:51 GMT
Oh?
Oh.
Oh no.
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Post by imaginaryfriend on Jan 27, 2021 17:09:11 GMT
...and maybe the reason Annie is seeing her mum is that the Zimms is sort of diffused thru everyone here, so she's part of Annie too. Zimmy (looking thru Annie's eyes) sees Gamma, but Annie sees her Gamma "analog" - Surma. I'd expect that to be the case but like a lot of things in this comic it raises more questions then it answers. Zeta is being "dramatic" and somehow vacating her usual role as supplying the whatzits that appear in Zimmingham, apparently. The Antimonies are probably the most etherically powerful being there so for some things they're in the driver's seat now. A duplicate Renard can be explained because the Antimonies expected him to be there. Perhaps the Antimonies deeply wish on a subconscious level for Surma, a person who could make everything all right and their "analog" Gamma as you put it, but they should very much be consciously expecting either Gamma or an empty room. The most simple explanation is that Renard is screwing with things from outside the panels with his latent desire to see Surma, but he wouldn't see this version of Surma. Something doesn't add up here. That being the case, I'll guess that there's another factor we don't know about, possibly one of the elves having an etheric gift of some sort that's affecting one or more Antimonies who're unintentionally borrowing some of Zeta's powers while she's stuck in the elves. What a mess. |
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Post by ohthatone on Jan 27, 2021 17:55:19 GMT
Of course, Annie knows better than anyone alive (I doubt she chatted about Surma with Gamma, for that matter) that it's just an image from her memory. Now her reaction is really unpredictable. Agreed. After reading this I realized it's just as likely the Annie's will go "oh, it's not gamma. Moving on" possibly leaving rey to fill in the audience role of HUBBA-WHAA so gamma can explain. Edit: sorry posting from my phone makes for unpredictable formatting |
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Post by mturtle7 on Jan 27, 2021 19:23:44 GMT
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH-(cont. ad infinitum, inside) Anyway....while I continue to scream in shock, horror, and despair at this amazingly brilliant page, I think Gemminie definitely deserves at least half a cookie. You were so close, Gemminie! You just happened to choose the wrong parent, and the wrong source of guilt & trauma!
And now, back to our regularly scheduled program. AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH-
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Post by pyradonis on Jan 27, 2021 22:52:13 GMT
The page, of course, harks back to this one. Who's going to go *pop* first? My guess is toy teddy Rey. Then the elves. Then the toys on the ground. Then Surma. Then the Annies. Then the room. Then the panels. Then the comic! |
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Post by zbeeblebrox on Jan 28, 2021 0:53:41 GMT
oh noo
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Post by saardvark on Jan 28, 2021 2:54:29 GMT
The page, of course, harks back to this one. Who's going to go *pop* first? My guess is toy teddy Rey. Then the elves. Then the toys on the ground. Then Surma. Then the Annies. Then the room. Then the panels. Then the comic! not the history erase button! (ref. Ren & Stimpy) |
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Post by saardvark on Jan 28, 2021 3:29:37 GMT
...and maybe the reason Annie is seeing her mum is that the Zimms is sort of diffused thru everyone here, so she's part of Annie too. Zimmy (looking thru Annie's eyes) sees Gamma, but Annie sees her Gamma "analog" - Surma. I'd expect that to be the case but like a lot of things in this comic it raises more questions then it answers. Zeta is being "dramatic" and somehow vacating her usual role as supplying the whatzits that appear in Zimmingham, apparently. The Antimonies are probably the most etherically powerful being there so for some things they're in the driver's seat now. A duplicate Renard can be explained because the Antimonies expected him to be there. Perhaps the Antimonies deeply wish on a subconscious level for Surma, a person who could make everything all right and their "analog" Gamma as you put it, but they should very much be consciously expecting either Gamma or an empty room. The most simple explanation is that Renard is screwing with things from outside the panels with his latent desire to see Surma, but he wouldn't see this version of Surma. Something doesn't add up here. That being the case, I'll guess that there's another factor we don't know about, possibly one of the elves having an etheric gift of some sort that's affecting one or more Antimonies who're unintentionally borrowing some of Zeta's powers while she's stuck in the elves. What a mess. or maybe its just that Zimmy is affecting Annie's mind at a deeper, primal/emotional level, below the rational level. Annie logically expects to see Gamma, but awash with Zimmster's powerful emotions suffusing through her, she instead "sees" the equivalent person who would stir those same emotions in herself.... her mum. |
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Post by drmemory on Jan 28, 2021 3:35:10 GMT
That doesn't quite look like Surma. The hair is right, or close, but no makeup, and the face looks different to me. Maybe it's Surma's mother? Of course it's probably really something much worse, but if the appearance is fair then grandmommy seems like a possibility. I don't think we've ever seen pictures of her or anyone further up the family tree, but we do know how it works - there can be only one (because the flame is passed on). I think a visitation from a benign ancestor is about the best we can hope for here. Like... Antimony, so nice to see you in person at last! Are you taking good care of your half sister Zimmy?  |
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Post by saardvark on Jan 28, 2021 4:12:42 GMT
That doesn't quite look like Surma. The hair is right, or close, but no makeup, and the face looks different to me. Maybe it's Surma's mother? Of course it's probably really something much worse, but if the appearance is fair then grandmommy seems like a possibility. I don't think we've ever seen pictures of her or anyone further up the family tree, but we do know how it works - there can be only one (because the flame is passed on). I think a visitation from a benign ancestor is about the best we can hope for here. Like... Antimony, so nice to see you in person at last! Are you taking good care of your half sister Zimmy? as pyradonis noted, Surma didn't wear makeup in the hospital www.gunnerkrigg.com/?p=813www.gunnerkrigg.com/?p=339 Face might be modified by having a Gamma-like expression (my interpretation is that Annie's perception is modified by Zimmy's commingling presence here) as in www.gunnerkrigg.com/?p=466(panel 5) very serene, dreamy, and at peace... I think it's Surma. |
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Post by jda on Jan 28, 2021 6:45:24 GMT
Well... okay... My 2 cents is we are in for a psyc terror part, Zimmy as Mom, and/or we are in for the destruction of one Annie, the one Surma doe NOT recognize as her sister. This isn't really Surma, and I'm sure the Annies know it and would normally act accordingly. But if ZimSurma treats Courtnie differently, the way Tony does, will that cause conflict and division? It might be a way of dividing the Annies, using issues they brought with them. "Why did you let me die, Annie?" |
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Post by pyradonis on Jan 28, 2021 9:05:54 GMT
That doesn't quite look like Surma. The hair is right, or close, but no makeup, and the face looks different to me. Maybe it's Surma's mother? Of course it's probably really something much worse, but if the appearance is fair then grandmommy seems like a possibility. I don't think we've ever seen pictures of her or anyone further up the family tree, but we do know how it works - there can be only one (because the flame is passed on). I think a visitation from a benign ancestor is about the best we can hope for here. Like... Antimony, so nice to see you in person at last! Are you taking good care of your half sister Zimmy? as pyradonis noted, Surma didn't wear makeup in the hospital www.gunnerkrigg.com/?p=813www.gunnerkrigg.com/?p=339 Face might be modified by having a Gamma-like expression (my interpretation is that Annie's perception is modified by Zimmy's commingling presence here) as in www.gunnerkrigg.com/?p=466(panel 5) very serene, dreamy, and at peace... I think it's Surma. Well, I have to agree with drmemory insofar as that I also felt something was off about Surma's face. It looked so round, so childish, not like we knew her. In fact, it at first it reminded me of the unctuous self-satisfied face S13's cherub avatar in VR had. |
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Post by blahzor on Jan 28, 2021 11:41:39 GMT
Well... okay... This isn't really Surma, and I'm sure the Annies know it and would normally act accordingly. But if ZimSurma treats Courtnie differently, the way Tony does, will that cause conflict and division? It might be a way of dividing the Annies, using issues they brought with them. "Why did you let me die, Annie?" Surma: get in my belly!! |
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Post by Vuk(Wolf) on Jan 28, 2021 11:56:33 GMT
That doesn't quite look like Surma. The hair is right, or close, but no makeup, and the face looks different to me. Maybe it's Surma's mother? Of course it's probably really something much worse, but if the appearance is fair then grandmommy seems like a possibility. I don't think we've ever seen pictures of her or anyone further up the family tree, but we do know how it works - there can be only one (because the flame is passed on). I think a visitation from a benign ancestor is about the best we can hope for here. Like... Antimony, so nice to see you in person at last! Are you taking good care of your half sister Zimmy? She does look different in facial features. Shouldn't Grandma flame have a different hairstyle than Surma though? |
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Post by gpvos on Jan 28, 2021 14:12:09 GMT
Also interesting in the light of the chapter title, "Find Yourself".
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Post by saardvark on Jan 28, 2021 14:16:22 GMT
Well, I have to agree with drmemory insofar as that I also felt something was off about Surma's face. It looked so round, so childish, not like we knew her. In fact, it at first it reminded me of the unctuous self-satisfied face S13's cherub avatar in VR had. agreed. It might be Zimmy's influence, making this "Surma" look a bit younger and a little Gamma-like. |
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Post by pyradonis on Jan 28, 2021 14:28:47 GMT
That doesn't quite look like Surma. The hair is right, or close, but no makeup, and the face looks different to me. Maybe it's Surma's mother? Of course it's probably really something much worse, but if the appearance is fair then grandmommy seems like a possibility. I don't think we've ever seen pictures of her or anyone further up the family tree, but we do know how it works - there can be only one (because the flame is passed on). I think a visitation from a benign ancestor is about the best we can hope for here. Like... Antimony, so nice to see you in person at last! Are you taking good care of your half sister Zimmy? She does look different in facial features. Shouldn't Grandma flame have a different hairstyle than Surma though? Why couldn't she have had the same hairstyle? |
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Post by Gemminie on Jan 28, 2021 14:40:35 GMT
OK, as usual, the surprise is simultaneously not what I expected and exactly what I should have expected. I assume we're seeing what Forest Annie is seeing, since on the last panel of the previous page she's the first one who would have seen this. And who's the person whose presence would be most calming to Annie, as Gamma is calming to Zimmy? If we were limiting it to living people, the answer would probably be Kat, but in an illusion that can show her anyone ever, yeah, it'd be her mom.
But just as Zimmy's worst nightmare is being unworthy of Gamma, will this illusory Surma accuse Annie of being unworthy of her? That would be horrible. Wonder what/who the elf kids see?
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Post by imaginaryfriend on Jan 28, 2021 15:56:09 GMT
Perhaps now is a good time to ask the question (again) why Zeta's parents don't remember her. I think it's reasonable to speculate that thanks to repeated outflows of Zeta's power their memories of her were destroyed, and the most reasonable way that would have happened is for Zeta to have killed herself over and over in the crummyverse/Zimmingham. Maybe Zeta did that with the purpose of easing her parents' pain through self-erasure but the need to bond with parents is a primal thing so I think it's more likely that she couldn't stand the way she appeared in her parents' eyes and therefore destroyed the parts of her parents that reflected her one by one over time until they didn't appear anymore. Presumably she started wandering the streets after that as she no longer had a home because she was a stranger there. If that is the case, then wouldn't gopping the Surma delete part of Antimonies that remembers her mother? Maybe that would be therapeutic for dealing with loss but even so, is it good? I'd expect that to be the case but like a lot of things in this comic it raises more questions then it answers. Zeta is being "dramatic" and somehow vacating her usual role as supplying the whatzits that appear in Zimmingham, apparently. The Antimonies are probably the most etherically powerful being there so for some things they're in the driver's seat now. A duplicate Renard can be explained because the Antimonies expected him to be there. Perhaps the Antimonies deeply wish on a subconscious level for Surma, a person who could make everything all right and their "analog" Gamma as you put it, but they should very much be consciously expecting either Gamma or an empty room. The most simple explanation is that Renard is screwing with things from outside the panels with his latent desire to see Surma, but he wouldn't see this version of Surma. Something doesn't add up here. That being the case, I'll guess that there's another factor we don't know about, possibly one of the elves having an etheric gift of some sort that's affecting one or more Antimonies who're unintentionally borrowing some of Zeta's powers while she's stuck in the elves. What a mess. or maybe its just that Zimmy is affecting Annie's mind at a deeper, primal/emotional level, below the rational level. Annie logically expects to see Gamma, but awash with Zimmster's powerful emotions suffusing through her, she instead "sees" the equivalent person who would stir those same emotions in herself.... her mum. What you're describing, Antimonies' subconscious in the drivers seat of Zeta's manifestations instead of Antimonies' consciousnesses, seems plausible but if true it means something that Renard is stuck as a stuffed toy. Something demeaning. Also that outburst from Zeta about Antimonies being like the elves may have been driven less by what Zeta actually thinks and more about Antimonies' worrying that Zeta thinks that. |
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Post by fia on Jan 28, 2021 16:12:00 GMT
Hmm... who do you think will be standing in the light once they round the corner? Something tells me it won't be Gamma, but maybe someone in Annie's life. Or a blend..... I've been wrong before! But! AH HA HA I KNEW IT Y'ALL I had a feeling it would be Surma but I didn't want to Wildspec. This is going to be an interesting chapter |
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Post by drmemory on Jan 28, 2021 16:20:31 GMT
Surma usually looks like she has sort of a long face. This is not meant to be critical at all - her look makes me think of a person of Scottish descent I know in RL, or maybe Irish with the hair and the fiery temper? In this picture the person shown looks a bit cherubic, as pyradonis said above. Like, smugly happy? Certainly softer, less angular. Her normal look, even in the flashbacks to the bug expedition and the page where she is walking with Anja in the cold ("two short planks") has been pretty consistent. But then, we are in the Zimmyverse here. Whatever we are seeing is being created by some combination of the Annies and Zimmy. What the heck would that be then? Perhaps we're seeing Fannie's image of her mother, and Cannie will see something a bit different? Hopefully the elf kids won't see a giant spider or something. That's pretty much my fear here - if this is a trap of some sort, as foreshadowed by Gamma, then we may be seeing something pulled from Fannie's mind to lure them all in.
Offtopic - Soon I will figure out how to link pages (instead of typing p.whatever) and quote people. |
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Post by fia on Jan 28, 2021 16:22:48 GMT
If I can just say one additional thing, this is not at all surprising. Annie and Zimmy have shown their minds / ether psyches to be mutually permeable before.
And this room full of toys is kind of a Zimmy-mind safe ward. Don't you have a safe part of your heart where you hold what is most precious? It makes sense that Annie would substitute Zimmy's images with her own.
The trick is of course Zimmy's abilities can warp Annie's psyche so she thinks it is real. And it'll probably be worse if she WANTS it to be real. That's going to be tough. Given that she knows Zimmy can make things manifest in the physical world too. I think Annie will figure it out but I'm not sure what the upshots will be. She certainly has a lot of experience being mind-bent (the individual Wisp, multiple Zimmyham trips, the Wisp nest, the time Zimmy helped her escape her dad's delusions, to name a few).
We've seen her dad be tricked by the strong desire for Surma to be alive. Annie must want it at least as much. :/ At least now there's two of her, that will help? I hope???
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Post by OrzBrain on Jan 28, 2021 20:36:33 GMT
Man, those are some angry/mean looking "cute" stuffed animals. Every one of them looks seriously POed.
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Post by jda on Jan 28, 2021 23:28:44 GMT
My 2 cents is we are in for a psyc terror part, Zimmy as Mom, and/or we are in for the destruction of one Annie, the one Surma doe NOT recognize as her sister. Sister? Plot twist twisting |
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Post by Gemminie on Jan 28, 2021 23:29:33 GMT
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH-(cont. ad infinitum, inside) Anyway....while I continue to scream in shock, horror, and despair at this amazingly brilliant page, I think Gemminie definitely deserves at least half a cookie. You were so close, Gemminie! You just happened to choose the wrong parent, and the wrong source of guilt & trauma!
And now, back to our regularly scheduled program. AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH-
Yay, half a cookie! I was thinking about who seemed to feel most unworthy of Annie. Instead, it's the mother figure that Annie feels as if she killed! And everyone who knew Surma seems to feel like Annie doesn't live up to their expectations of her! (OK, not everyone, but thanks for that, Eglamore.) |
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Post by jda on Jan 29, 2021 0:13:03 GMT
Man, those are some angry/mean looking "cute" stuffed animals. Every one of them looks seriously POed. It'd be "PedO"... well no, it is better your way |
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Post by Runningflame on Jan 29, 2021 1:00:53 GMT
The most obvious thing to call Zimmy's mind would be, not the Crummyverse, but the Spiderverse. However, that title was already taken. |
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Post by blazingstar on Jan 29, 2021 2:20:03 GMT
That doesn't quite look like Surma. The hair is right, or close, but no makeup, and the face looks different to me. Maybe it's Surma's mother? Face might be modified by having a Gamma-like expression (my interpretation is that Annie's perception is modified by Zimmy's commingling presence here) as in www.gunnerkrigg.com/?p=466(panel 5) very serene, dreamy, and at peace... I think it's Surma. Well, I have to agree with drmemory insofar as that I also felt something was off about Surma's face. It looked so round, so childish, not like we knew her. In fact, it at first it reminded me of the unctuous self-satisfied face S13's cherub avatar in VR had. Y'all are ignoring the simple answer of "art evolution". It's been many, many chapters since we saw adult Surma (NOT teenage or school-age Surma), and as we're all aware, Tom's art grows in leaps and bounds. |
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Post by pyradonis on Jan 29, 2021 14:41:45 GMT
Y'all are ignoring the simple answer of "art evolution". It's been many, many chapters since we saw adult Surma (NOT teenage or school-age Surma), and as we're all aware, Tom's art grows in leaps and bounds. Phh, next thing you'll be telling us that red-haired girl is supposed to be Annie, despite her head not being shaped like a football at all! |
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