[2349] Sorry

[madjack]

Of course.

[Eversist]

Hehe. Can’t help but think that Kat now knows how the reader feels.

[stclair]

Wow, she is smart. She figured that out fast!


"Further information is not available here." - the all-purpose "can't/won't tell you that" statement from CONTINUUM

[Angry Robot]

Hey Tom, panel three speech balloon should be blue. Panel four speech balloon should be white.

[madjack]

Hmm, in panel 4, Verdandi!Kat has the blue highlighted speech bubble instead of Real!Kat in panel 3.

Probably a mistake?

Edit: Beaten, whoops.

[wies]

Okay, but why. Obviously they have a good reason (or at leas they think that) for not telling her, but how can it be wrong to telling Kat what exactly happened the first time. She already did contemplate that Annie did die in some time, so that won't break her mind or something. It must be something else. Hmm, maybe first time Kat had plans she didn't want her "younger than usual" selves to know? Or robogodess Kat asked the Norns to be silent about this.

[arf]

"Would you like to know more?"
"Yes"
"Sorry"

So it *was* a "trust me" gesture. And Kat is not amused

[Noximilian]

*Shaking a fist toward the rainy sky*

SIDDEEEEEELL!


I hate this comic! No answers! Never! Oh, you think you get an answer? NO! Only more questions! You are a troll, Mr. Siddel, a troll, and a bully for toying with our hearts and minds! This was evil, and you are the worst! The absolute worst! I HAD ENOUGH!!! AAAAAAAARGH!
...
...
...

Well... After a bucket of ice, three doses of sedatives, and the promise of a big chocolate ice cream, I calmed down. Yeah, I don't really hate the comic. I kinda... actually like it. All right, all right... it is still my favorite.
I still think this was a cruel thing to pull off though...

[arf]

Aug 26, 2020 7:19:56 GMT Angry Robot said:

Hey Tom, panel three speech balloon should be blue. Panel four speech balloon should be white.

Maybe Kat's just mugged Verdandi in response, and has switched clothes to infiltrate the fate's intelligence network. Hence the "sorry"?

(Then again, maybe not)

[arf]

I think the reason for not telling is just a matter of standard policy about the veil drawn over the future rather than not wanting to freak Kat about what is to be (although not telling her is going to be just as freaky)

[imaginaryfriend]

A consequence of the ethericly-tuned beings allowing humans to discover the world on their own is that humans repeat the same mistakes endlessly, which I would speculate is part of what keeps the etheric world turning.

[blahzor]

Sorry Kat we told you one and you went crazy, we do not want to make that mistake again for the first time

[Tenjen]

they've most likely seen what happens when they push the burden of knowledge on her and she realizes all the implications and pain.

[Gemminie]

Wow, Verdandi said "We can't tell you anything" in the nicest possible way. She really went out of her way to be kind about it, in fact.

Why can't they tell her? Well, perhaps they tried that in a few other iterations, and it didn't go so well. Or maybe it's just their policy not to entangle timelines together by introducing information about one into another.

I was afraid we were going to see a sad flashback (or flashsideways, as csj put it) about an adult Kat who had met Brinnie later in life, because there had been no Annie in her life to have adventures with. There were no Robot, Shadow 2, Renard, Mort, or Basil in her life, and she'd basically had no friends in school until she was in sixth form, though there was that one week with Alistair, but she never found out where he went. Kat had never met Zimmy and Gamma, except briefly that one time Jack Hyland had them all on that rooftop to look at the Ether station. Something happened to Jack after that -- he started acting really weird, and then one day he just disappeared. The Queslett classes did a lot less sneaking out of the dorms, and as a result Kat and Paz never became an item.

Kat only met Parley after the new Court Medium and his protector were announced, since Uncle Jim introduced Parley and Smitty to the family at some point, but Kat never really got to know them. I suppose there was that nice but uneventful cruise at the end of Year 9. Anja eventually showed her the Tomb, with the ancient robots in it, which made Kat interested in building some robot projects of her own, especially a robot bird, because of the one that her mom had described to her. But Kat never found the shrine to Jeanne, and of course she never became interested in building new bodies for the existing robots.

But one day years later Anja and Donald were upset to learn of the death of an old friend of theirs from school named Tony, who as it turned out had been the father of Kat's school friend Annie, who'd died falling off that bridge back in year 7. Kat remembered how distraught she'd been -- she'd wanted to do something to search for her and perhaps rescue her, but Renard had gotten free and had disappeared, meaning that Annie had died. Tony had been found dead of exposure in some remote region of the world; he'd been spending years exploring, and nobody knew what he'd been trying to find, because he'd never sent word to anyone. Kat started wondering whether there was a way to go back in time and save Annie, which might also save Tony, so Anja decided to call on Brinnie ... or that's one way events could have played out.

I couldn't sleep. Sorry.

[Note: In the middle of the night, I misremembered the order of some events; Kat would still have met Basil, Zimmy, and Gamma. See later post.]

[Eily]

I wonder if that message really was for Kat.

Or said another way, I wonder if Tom would have felt the need to include that, had it not been for those pesky readers who ask too many questions.

[merry76]

Wait. You are too smart to know? How does that even work?

We let you mess with time itself, but we wont tell you why you are allowed to do that - Because you would do something intelligent?

[speedwell]

Folks, as someone who works in direct customer-facing tech support a lot, I can't help but laugh out loud at this incredible example of "how to say no".

[speedwell]

Aug 26, 2020 8:37:51 GMT merry76 said:

Wait. You are too smart to know? How does that even work?

We let you mess with time itself, but we wont tell you why you are allowed to do that - Because you would do something intelligent?

Also as someone who works in direct customer-facing tech support, I assure you that "too smart to know" is a thing. There is certain technical information I can't give to a motivated, engaged, bright customer because it could lead them down the path of temptation into the Slough of Despond and cause an even worse issue that could be hard or impossible to solve later. Sometimes "do as I say and keep your mouth shut" is protective, particularly when there is a risk someone might do something intelligent - but unwise.

[arkadi]

Welp, that's it. There's definitely something that Kat is meant to do, but the Norns are afraid she'll pull back if she understands the implications.

The fact that they're almost up front about it is... slightly reassuring. It does look like these ladies aren't as shifty as other supernatural agencies we've met.

Still doesn't necessarily mean that they have Kat's best interests at heart.

[machiavelli33]

Aw DAYUM the SHUTDOWN.
...
Anyways, I wonder if its possible that this literally is, was and will be the first time Kat has seen them. But because of the circular nature of the Norns' awareness, they have retroactive knowledge of all the times Kat has been, and will be. The first time thus has always happened exactly this way, always would and will.

Perhaps its not a lie to say that time is malleable, but to someone as tied with the nature of fate as the Norns, their relationship to and knowledge of time may be static.

[pyradonis]

Aug 26, 2020 8:02:02 GMT Gemminie said:

Wow, Verdandi said "We can't tell you anything" in the nicest possible way. She really went out of her way to be kind about it, in fact.

Why can't they tell her? Well, perhaps they tried that in a few other iterations, and it didn't go so well. Or maybe it's just their policy not to entangle timelines together by introducing information about one into another.

I was afraid we were going to see a sad flashback (or flashsideways, as csj put it) about an adult Kat who had met Brinnie later in life, because there had been no Annie in her life to have adventures with. There were no Robot, Shadow 2, Renard, Mort, or Basil in her life, and she'd basically had no friends in school until she was in sixth form, though there was that one week with Alistair, but she never found out where he went. Kat had never met Zimmy and Gamma, except briefly that one time Jack Hyland had them all on that rooftop to look at the Ether station. Something happened to Jack after that -- he started acting really weird, and then one day he just disappeared. The Queslett classes did a lot less sneaking out of the dorms, and as a result Kat and Paz never became an item.

Actually, Kat had met Basil as well as Zimmy and Gamma before Annie fell from the bridge.

[jda]

Aug 26, 2020 7:24:13 GMT Noximilian said:

*Shaking a fist toward the rainy sky*

SIDDEEEEEELL!


I hate this comic! No answers! Never! Oh, you think you get an answer? NO! Only more questions! You are a troll, Mr. Siddel, a troll, and a bully for toying with our hearts and minds! This was evil, and you are the worst! The absolute worst! I HAD ENOUGH!!! AAAAAAAARGH!
...
...
...

Well... After a bucket of ice, three doses of sedatives, and the promise of a big chocolate ice cream, I calmed down. Yeah, I don't really hate the comic. I kinda... actually like it. All right, all right... it is still my favorite.
I still think this was a cruel thing to pull off though...

been there, done that

[jda]

Aug 26, 2020 8:37:51 GMT merry76 said:

Wait. You are too smart to know? How does that even work?

We let you mess with time itself, but we wont tell you why you are allowed to do that - Because you would do something intelligent?

"Sorry, Katherina, but that is Direcitive 0, given to us by you when we were born, mothe... oopsie, TMI, isn't it? Sorry! Awww man, I liked this timeline! At least this time you didn't show up with a gang of multiversal pirates!"

(hitting a big red KILL THEM ALL AND RESET UNIVERSE button)

[Noximilian]

Aug 26, 2020 8:37:51 GMT merry76 said:

Wait. You are too smart to know? How does that even work?

We let you mess with time itself, but we wont tell you why you are allowed to do that - Because you would do something intelligent?

English is not my native language, so please let me know if I am wrong... but I think the speach had no indication of this.

In panel 2, Verdandi doesn't starts to say "[...] but because of this we can't tell you"

She says something along the lines of "Because of this, we hope you undersand that we can't tell you."

In other words they don't think that Kat is too smart to know the truth, but that she's smart enough to accept that they can't tell her.

[speedwell]

Aug 26, 2020 12:36:01 GMT Noximilian said:

Aug 26, 2020 8:37:51 GMT merry76 said:

Wait. You are too smart to know? How does that even work?

We let you mess with time itself, but we wont tell you why you are allowed to do that - Because you would do something intelligent?

English is not my native language, so please let me know if I am wrong... but I think the speach had no indication of this.

In panel 2, Verdandi doesn't starts to say "[...] but because of this we can't tell you"

She says something along the lines of "Because of this, we hope you undersand that we can't tell you."

In other words they don't think that Kat is too smart to know the truth, but that she's smart enough to accept that they can't tell her.

You're not wrong (and I was joking around above). It's really more like, "you're incredibly intelligent, and it is a burden to you, and in our best judgment it would be wrong for us to add to that burden, as we would do if we told you. We know how loving and emotional you are, maybe better than you do, and you will need to trust us on this." The sweet, compassionate look on Verdandi's face is a clue to that. 

[atteSmythe]

Wow, Tom, you really nailed everything about Kat’s posture in panel 1. Well done.

[blahzor]

Aug 26, 2020 8:37:51 GMT merry76 said:

Wait. You are too smart to know? How does that even work?

We let you mess with time itself, but we wont tell you why you are allowed to do that - Because you would do something intelligent?

she's overly intelligent, and becoming a Ra and would figure out while there's rules and they shouldn't be broken yet she could if she wanted to. She's already tried once

[Gemminie]

Aug 26, 2020 11:08:20 GMT pyradonis said:

Actually, Kat had met Basil as well as Zimmy and Gamma before Annie fell from the bridge.

Actually, you are completely correct.  Maybe I shouldn't post in the middle of the night, because I realized the very same thing earlier this morning. Without Annie, Kat wouldn't have had much contact with Zimmy and Gamma beyond the Power Station Incident – maybe she would have seen them during the cruise, maybe not – but she met them at the Science Fair Incident before the Bridge Incident occurred. And she met Basil in chapter 2 – again, not much reason for further contact, but she still would've met him before Annie's unfortunate fall.

Sorry. 

[fia]

I don't think the Norns need to meet alterate-version Kat in order to know what might happen. They are basically the Fates. Can't they foresee every possibility, including the actualized ones?

Traditionally that has been a way for many cultures to make sense of a just universe: if there are beings who can see all the events, and who in some cases help bring certain events around, it must be that we live in a just universe; because they only allow the overall just timeline, even though it has some seemingly unjust moments on the way. If the Norns are benign and they have power to help actualize one out of thousands of timelines, it seems logical that they would pick a good one, not a bad one.

Of course we have no idea whether Gunnerverse is a just universe. It feels morally ambiguous at best. So far, though, the worst things that have been done (ex., trapping Jeanne, the little boy dying in a fire, Tony leaving Annie alone for 3 years, Mort being KO'd as a child) have been done by humans to others or themselves, not, as far as we know, by gods. (The Daniel/Reynardine situation might be an exception. So jury's out on that. But Rey is not a god, just a clever fox spirit).

I want to note too that a big plot point for the Robot narrative arc has been that all those shenanigans started when Annie gave Robot "a choice" – indicating that free will is what makes any being capable of influencing the world (and maybe the ether). Humans in the Abrahamic traditions mostly think free will is good and that its value outweighs the disvalue of all the bad stuff that happens when people use it to do bad things. But some people think atrocities we've committed are so bad that they outweigh the value of free will, and that it might have been better (more just) for us to live in a universe with no free will. 2020 is great fodder for the latter.

[Corvo]

I can't stop looking at panel 3. It looks so simple, but somehow It feels like there's a lot of information in Kat's expression. I love it!