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Post by bedinsis on Jun 29, 2020 7:02:07 GMT
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Post by philman on Jun 29, 2020 7:03:48 GMT
So what happened to bring a Tictoc into being when Anja was a kid then? Did Kat have to send one back for something to do with Surma? Did Kat end up making them so that they are only protectors of the children, so they stop appearing around adults?
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Post by saardvark on Jun 29, 2020 7:12:22 GMT
How could Anja forget the one Ys crushed? It seems she is being dodgy here - continuing her kinda fake response on the last page... trying to steer away from certain lines of thought?
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kefka
Junior Member
Posts: 98
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Post by kefka on Jun 29, 2020 7:13:23 GMT
I've had a feeling she knows exactly what's up with Kat for a long time
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Post by wies on Jun 29, 2020 7:14:24 GMT
How could Anja forget the one Ys crushed? It seems she is being dodgy here - continuing her kinda fake response on the last page... trying to steer away from certain lines of thought? Could be. Could also be that the broken Tic-Toc didn't count for her. |
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Post by madjack on Jun 29, 2020 7:19:00 GMT
How could Anja forget the one Ys crushed? It seems she is being dodgy here - continuing her kinda fake response on the last page... trying to steer away from certain lines of thought? Could be. Could also be that the broken Tic-Toc didn't count for her. It's apparently been decades since she's seen one and less than a minute's worth of conversation has passed, she's probably still mentally catching up. The smile she gives when agreeing with Annie about the chapter 14 appearance looks genuine. |
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Post by neonmoon on Jun 29, 2020 7:26:47 GMT
Ugh, poor Kat, you can see her thinking her mom's youthful memory is another spacetime location she's going to need to make sure to send a tictoc, better jot that down
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Post by saardvark on Jun 29, 2020 7:29:47 GMT
Could be. Could also be that the broken Tic-Toc didn't count for her. It's apparently been decades since she's seen one and less than a minute's worth of conversation has passed, she's probably still mentally catching up. The smile she gives when agreeing with Annie about the chapter 14 appearance looks genuine. I dunno... a meeting where Coyote and Ys appear after many years absence, where Annie is attacked, Eggs goes into studly-defender mode, and Ys is bapped into a pillar, would be highly memorable... the kind of event you have seared into your memory. Would you forget that it also had the appearance (and obliteration) of a long lost, long sought, mysterious mecha-toucan? |
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Post by bratello07 on Jun 29, 2020 8:28:58 GMT
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Post by Elysium on Jun 29, 2020 8:40:53 GMT
How could Anja forget the one Ys crushed? It seems she is being dodgy here - continuing her kinda fake response on the last page... trying to steer away from certain lines of thought? More like she's remebering the ones she saw properly, not the mangled remains of one. |
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Post by Igniz on Jun 29, 2020 9:09:14 GMT
Could also be that the broken Tic-Toc didn't count for her. More like she's remebering the ones she saw properly, not the mangled remains of one. Agreed. I think that Anja is referring to the last time she saw a Tic-Toc complete and intact, ignoring the destroyed one that good ol' Ys brought into the Court. This. As I said not too long ago, I hope this chapter sheds some light as to Zimmy's relation with (and reaction to) the robird. |
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Post by csj on Jun 29, 2020 9:39:30 GMT
So what happened to bring a Tictoc into being when Anja was a kid then? Join the 'there were always tic-tocs' club I can already smell the cookies |
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Post by pyradonis on Jun 29, 2020 10:54:34 GMT
Anja's statement of having seen a Tic-toc while she was younger than Kat is now lends credibility to the theory that the Tic-toc will be sent to/spawned in a point in time much earlier than the first in-comic appeareance, probably earlier than the first robot's creation (as the robots seem to believe it is older than the Court). It's apparently been decades since she's seen one and less than a minute's worth of conversation has passed, she's probably still mentally catching up. The smile she gives when agreeing with Annie about the chapter 14 appearance looks genuine. I dunno... a meeting where Coyote and Ys appear after many years absence, where Annie is attacked, Eggs goes into studly-defender mode, and Ys is bapped into a pillar, would be highly memorable... the kind of event you have seared into your memory. Would you forget that it also had the appearance (and obliteration) of a long lost, long sought, mysterious mecha-toucan? Well, if you asked me when I last saw a fox, I would probably tell you of the last time I saw an actual living fox, not the battered and crushed remains of one lying at the side of the road. I agree that the circumstances were more memorable than the example I just made, but maybe that's the reason - so much happened on this day that in Anja's memory it's just not filed under "the day I saw a dead Tic-toc being crushed", but is mainly associated with Coyote's and Ysengrin's reappeareance and Ysengrin flying into a berserker rage. By the way, only now I realize how interesting it is that Anja & co. have never managed to capture a Tic-toc, and yet do not seem surprised that it is a machine. (Got to put that into the reread thread.) |
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Post by Eily on Jun 29, 2020 11:16:15 GMT
So what happened to bring a Tictoc into being when Anja was a kid then? Join the 'there were always tic-tocs' club I can already smell the cookies Jones is a Tic-Toc. ... I had to check if Kat ever met the rock star after saying that, she did
Seeing that page made me imagine some poor guy trying to seduce |
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Post by getawaysubmarine on Jun 29, 2020 11:20:54 GMT
I dunno... a meeting where Coyote and Ys appear after many years absence, where Annie is attacked, Eggs goes into studly-defender mode, and Ys is bapped into a pillar, would be highly memorable... the kind of event you have seared into your memory. Would you forget that it also had the appearance (and obliteration) of a long lost, long sought, mysterious mecha-toucan? Well, if you asked me when I last saw a fox, I would probably tell you of the last time I saw an actual living fox, not the battered and crushed remains of one lying at the side of the road. I agree that the circumstances were more memorable than the example I just made, but maybe that's the reason - so much happened on this day that in Anja's memory it's just not filed under "the day I saw a dead Tic-toc being crushed", but is mainly associated with Coyote's and Ysengrin's reappeareance and Ysengrin flying into a berserker rage. By the way, only now I realize how interesting it is that Anja & co. have never managed to capture a Tic-toc, and yet do not seem surprised that it is a machine. (Got to put that into the reread thread.) |
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Post by Eily on Jun 29, 2020 11:27:07 GMT
Seeing the first panel again; instead of Anja I thought I saw a pinked haired girl with a black octopus on her back  |
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Post by migrantworker on Jun 29, 2020 11:35:32 GMT
Hmm.
Kat made the Tic-toc because it saved the life of her best friend, really her only friend at the time. That's an obviously important reason to pick up an interest in something. So she made some pictures of it - and then she did nothing more for several years, until the conversation with the Arbiter gave her enough of a jolt. We can now be wise after the fact and say that something would have eventually made her pick up the work and complete the Tic-toc due to the time loop she finds herself in... or to put the same thing in other words, that The Time Loop Made Her Do It. It wasn't Kat's choice, really. Without the time loop, Kat would be unlikely to ever make a Tic-toc, and her interest in them would probably continue to wane.
And yet Anja (claims to have) kept her interest in Tic-tocs through what, a quarter of a century at least?, of never seeing a live one. What exactly are Tic-tocs to her?
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Post by Jelly Jellybean on Jun 29, 2020 11:45:09 GMT
I've had a feeling she knows exactly what's up with Kat for a long time I still wonder if Kat could be the final form of Anja's computer. |
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Post by ctso74 on Jun 29, 2020 13:20:22 GMT
Anja: "Oh, this must have something to do with you being a mecha-goddess."
Everyone else: "..."
Anja: "Haven't your father and I mentioned that before?..."
I doubt the next page will be that forward, but it should be interesting to see Anja reaction, or perhaps lack of one.
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Post by atteSmythe on Jun 29, 2020 13:26:11 GMT
I think the next page will be disappointment - “Oh, I thought it was one of the real ones. This one looks just like them, though, nice work”
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Post by imaginaryfriend on Jun 29, 2020 13:33:18 GMT
Hmm. Kat made the Tic-toc because it saved the life of her best friend, really her only friend at the time. That's an obviously important reason to pick up an interest in something. So she made some pictures of it - and then she did nothing more for several years, until the conversation with the Arbiter gave her enough of a jolt. We can now be wise after the fact and say that something would have eventually made her pick up the work and complete the Tic-toc due to the time loop she finds herself in... or to put the same thing in other words, that The Time Loop Made Her Do It. It wasn't Kat's choice, really. Without the time loop, Kat would be unlikely to ever make a Tic-toc, and her interest in them would probably continue to wane. And yet Anja (claims to have) kept her interest in Tic-tocs through what, a quarter of a century at least?, of never seeing a live one. What exactly are Tic-tocs to her? I think the 'Toc would've got built without the loop. Kat would have met Alistair regardless of ever knowing Antimony so Kat making a Toc might be inevitable regardless of Antimonies' situation, even if Kat never met Antimony. She likes robots and made it to take her mind off things and make something cute using her hands instead of relying on her system. Sooner or later at some point in her life she would have needed such a project and a reminder of simpler times when she had just met someone she was interested in. Oddly as it may seem, Anja probably thinks about 'Tocs in a similar way. They're a mystery of the Court that hearkens back to Anja's own youth, one that she and her friends never solved. Nostalgia aside, Anja also likes robots in general, thinks about interesting designs and wants to see them moving. Additionally, Anja probably knows more about the Court's politics and intrigue now then she did when she was a kid; as a "surveillance system" that appeared early on it should be useful to know who built it and why. |
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Post by fia on Jun 29, 2020 14:05:28 GMT
Hypothesis: this chapter is transmitted to us via the eyes of a Tic-Toc. It's one of the few chapters where no one is thinking about the past or storytelling to one of the main characters and where the main characters are not themselves participating: our only link is through this photograph Annie stole many pages prior ( evidence here). I've always wondered about the narrative mechanism, because the rest of the comic is pretty consistent that we see most things through Annie's eyes. |
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Post by fia on Jun 29, 2020 14:22:14 GMT
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Post by warrl on Jun 29, 2020 18:02:36 GMT
So what happened to bring a Tictoc into being when Anja was a kid then? Did Kat have to send one back for something to do with Surma? Did Kat end up making them so that they are only protectors of the children, so they stop appearing around adults? The robots claim that the Tic-tocs have been around longer than the robots themselves. There are viable possibilities where that isn't literally true, but "the first Tic-Toc was during Anja's childhood" doesn't seem like one of them - the robots should easily be able to keep straight the difference between "twenty-five years ago" and "a couple hundred years ago". In other words, I don't think a Tic-toc was sent back to Anja's time. I think some were sent back to substantially earlier and were still around (or made more in the intervening years) in Anja's time and up to when Annie fell off the bridge. (It isn't clear at this point whether any functioning Tic-Tocs have been seen since then - up until now when Kat has made one.) |
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Post by pyradonis on Jun 29, 2020 19:06:08 GMT
Hypothesis: this chapter is transmitted to us via the eyes of a Tic-Toc. It's one of the few chapters where no one is thinking about the past or storytelling to one of the main characters and where the main characters are not themselves participating: our only link is through this photograph Annie stole many pages prior ( evidence here). I've always wondered about the narrative mechanism, because the rest of the comic is pretty consistent that we see most things through Annie's eyes. In the beginning, yes, but later there have been other chapters told from someone else's perspective. "Quicksilver" from Renard's, "New Data" from Robot's, and "She Gave Us An Ocean" from the water pipe maintenance bot's are coming to mind. The first half of "The Shadow Men" (until the timeskip) is also told from Kat's perspective, although you could argue that Kat eventually told Annie what had happened back then.
So what happened to bring a Tictoc into being when Anja was a kid then? Did Kat have to send one back for something to do with Surma? Did Kat end up making them so that they are only protectors of the children, so they stop appearing around adults? The robots claim that the Tic-tocs have been around longer than the robots themselves. There are viable possibilities where that isn't literally true, but "the first Tic-Toc was during Anja's childhood" doesn't seem like one of them - the robots should easily be able to keep straight the difference between "twenty-five years ago" and "a couple hundred years ago". In other words, I don't think a Tic-toc was sent back to Anja's time. I think some were sent back to substantially earlier and were still around (or made more in the intervening years) in Anja's time and up to when Annie fell off the bridge. (It isn't clear at this point whether any functioning Tic-Tocs have been seen since then - up until now when Kat has made one.) I think philman follows the school of thought that the Tic-tocs were not hanging around the Court constantly, but rather were sent to/spawned in different specific points in time to carry out specific tasks.
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Post by novia on Jun 29, 2020 19:38:46 GMT
IDE/Theory: Kat is going to become mecha-Odin
IDE/Theory: The TikToc/Thousand Eyes interacted with Surma somehow because it mistook her for Annie (like how everyone else thinks Annie is Surma). This is why despite only seeing the bird in childhood, it left a mark on Donnie & Anja.
IDE/Theory: They also hang around Zimmy because she has also been confused for Annie under certain circumstances.
IDE/Theory: Kat sent the TikTocs all the way back to before robots existed to learn more about Diego's golems, and inadvertently one of those was the seed Bismuth.
IDE/Theory: Everything that is screwy about this universe is a result of Kat running some multiprocessing instances.
WAIT!!
IDE/Theory: Kat's all like, "Ok TicToc, go back and protect Annie. Annie is this person here with this signature," and since Annie is a fire sprite that is passed on from woman to woman in her family the TicToc is like ok cool, I'll go back to when that fire sprite first spawned. Hence the seed Bismuth.
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Post by blazingstar on Jun 29, 2020 19:42:42 GMT
Did Kat end up making them so that they are only protectors of the children, so they stop appearing around adults? Just like why you can't see the shapes in Trix cereal marshmallows anymore. Trix are only for kids. |
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Post by netherdan on Jun 29, 2020 21:05:32 GMT
The robots claim that the Tic-tocs have been around longer than the robots themselves. There are viable possibilities where that isn't literally true, but "the first Tic-Toc was during Anja's childhood" doesn't seem like one of them - the robots should easily be able to keep straight the difference between "twenty-five years ago" and "a couple hundred years ago". In other words, I don't think a Tic-toc was sent back to Anja's time. I think some were sent back to substantially earlier and were still around (or made more in the intervening years) in Anja's time and up to when Annie fell off the bridge. (It isn't clear at this point whether any functioning Tic-Tocs have been seen since then - up until now when Kat has made one.) I think philman follows the school of thought that the Tic-tocs were not hanging around the Court constantly, but rather were sent to/spawned in different specific points in time to carry out specific tasks.
It is indeed more plausible for an old timey robot (not the synth-fleshy ones) to stick around for just a few years without maintenance than they being around for centuries. I imagine they time-hopped for anything between a few weeks to a few years in their own time-frame and that resulted in outsiders observing it for centuries until its demise in the ravine. Either that or Kat is wrong about them all being this single bird. Then again, they did have some sort of self-replicating mechanism and that's probably something Kat don't know/didn't implement yet and that could prove both the "single robird for centuries" and the "many robirds" theories since they'd have the ability to either repair or make more of itself! Hypothesis: this chapter is transmitted to us via the eyes of a Tic-Toc. It's one of the few chapters where no one is thinking about the past or storytelling to one of the main characters and where the main characters are not themselves participating: our only link is through this photograph Annie stole many pages prior ( evidence here). I've always wondered about the narrative mechanism, because the rest of the comic is pretty consistent that we see most things through Annie's eyes. Hah, she did look serious in the photo! |
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Post by Runningflame on Jun 30, 2020 1:39:30 GMT
By the way, only now I realize how interesting it is that Anja & co. have never managed to capture a Tic-toc, and yet do not seem surprised that it is a machine. (Got to put that into the reread thread.) Anja knows a quartz alternator when she hears one. |
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Post by madjack on Jun 30, 2020 1:56:49 GMT
At a guess, this would just be someone marking down that all the lights on the bridge are working. Not the most engaging of jobs. |
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