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Post by philman on Jun 13, 2013 16:13:34 GMT
So Tom's going to pull an "And it was all the Dreamtime" on us?
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Post by The Anarch on Jun 13, 2013 16:19:28 GMT
Or "this is a recording". Annie as an old lady, sitting around with her grandchildren and telling them about her adventures at school, including how they managed to fix that pesky "have a kid and die" thing.
Or a "Yesterday's Enterprise", where the events are being overwritten by something from the future/past, but everything gets sorted back out to the original timeline at the end.
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Post by Toloc on Jun 13, 2013 19:30:07 GMT
Even if it hasn't been used as a framing device for many hundred pages it was implied in the beginning that the whole story is told by Future!Annie, who finished school a while ago.
So it would be possible that in some future chapter Jones will be created, but from the reference point of the narrator (Future!Annie) she would have always been there. But Future!Annie would still be aware of the RetCon.
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Post by todd on Jun 13, 2013 22:16:57 GMT
Is Annie still telling the story? A lot of the action now takes place when she's not around or from other characters' points of view, one chapter was narrated by Skywatcher, and it's been hinted that she was really narrating from the perspective of the chapter where she and Mr. Donlan launched those supplies to Anthony and he had that talk with her - which means, if so, that the story's gone past the point that she was narrating from. Tom may have abandoned the notion of "Gunnerkrigg Court" being her memoirs.
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Post by download on Jun 14, 2013 5:11:43 GMT
Whether Annie tells the story is based on how comfortable she is. At the start of the story is is friendless and alone, eventually as her friendship with Kat grows stronger she stopped narrating her story. Then when Tony calls her, her comfort is destroyed and she starts narrating again
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rolandofgilead
New Member
Just imagine my avatar saying everything I post
Posts: 29
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Post by rolandofgilead on Jun 14, 2013 6:19:45 GMT
Tom may have abandoned the notion of "Gunnerkrigg Court" being her memoirs. Which is troubling, because now Annie could totally die or something. |
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Post by snipertom on Jun 14, 2013 6:27:34 GMT
Tom may have abandoned the notion of "Gunnerkrigg Court" being her memoirs. Which is troubling, because now Annie could totally die or something. The story continues to be narrated when Annie's daughter gets sent to a mysterious new school and no-one knows where Matt skived off to (maybe to the moon?) |
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Post by Corvo on Jun 14, 2013 14:45:00 GMT
Tom may have abandoned the notion of "Gunnerkrigg Court" being her memoirs. Which is troubling, because now Annie could totally die or something. Tom's been reading/watching Game of Thrones?!? Please, don't let that happen... |
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Post by warrl on Jun 14, 2013 15:30:05 GMT
Renard has been keeping a secret since "he killed that young man". The secret is that he did NOT kill that young man, but found a way to shove him off into another body for safekeeping. The body that happened to be available was a fully articulated doll, now known as Hettie.
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Post by TBeholder on Jun 14, 2013 16:25:49 GMT
Not that a very definitely male soul in a girl doll body is something too surprising...  This most likely could cause more tension than we see here. Then again - hey, free immortality. Either way, the main problem would be "why on Earth they would want to hide this fact?" part. |
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Post by philman on Jun 14, 2013 17:48:28 GMT
The doll/fairy seems too happy to see Renard for someone that he killed/stole the body of
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Post by GK Sierra on Jun 14, 2013 18:05:45 GMT
Which is troubling, because now Annie could totally die or something. Tom's been reading/watching Game of Thrones?!? Please, don't let that happen... I am a fan of "anybody dies", but I doubt Tom would kill Antimony except as a dramatic closer. As for Game of Thrones, I swear, if I hear one more word about a "Red Wedding" out of my coworkers, the next senseless act of violence in America will happen at my job site. |
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Post by Nnelg on Jun 14, 2013 20:10:37 GMT
If she's the product of a future religion that wouldn't work, the way coyote described it he never exised until people believed in him, when suddenly he always existed. As with the Stars example, the stars were always there, but it was only when humans came along that they had been there only since coyote put them there. The religious creatures both only exist once they are believed in, but then have always existed. I don't like this idea, because it essentially renders the concept of time/history meaningless. Because, if nobody actually experiences these retroactive changes -even if the false memories of doing so exist- then could said history be said to have ever really happened? Could you really have been said to have changed the past in this manner, which is indistinguishable from merely changing the present? In fact, with such a system could the "past" truly exist at all?Either way, we can't rule it out unless we know for sure. Coyote never said a word about retroactive continuity. He claimed his existence was merely a figment in the minds of man, and implied that it was also non-causal. No more, no less. As for Game of Thrones, I swear, if I hear one more word about a "Red Wedding" out of my coworkers, the next senseless act of violence in America will happen at my job site. There's a spoiler function now?!?  testing Finally.  |
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Post by GK Sierra on Jun 14, 2013 21:12:47 GMT
As for Game of Thrones, I swear, if I hear one more word about a "Red Wedding" out of my coworkers, the next senseless act of violence in America will happen at my job site. There's a spoiler function now?!? testing Finally. AND a preview function that works instantly. I'm warming up to this new version. Don't tell anyone, though. It's just between you and us. |
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Post by warrl on Jun 14, 2013 22:11:39 GMT
The doll/fairy seems too happy to see Renard for someone that he killed/stole the body of Ah but there's a combination of: a) it was somewhat consensual on the young man's part, or would have been if he had been asked. Maybe he had just realized his own mortality and didn't want to face it - so now he's in a body that is potentially immortal. b) Reynard feels guilty about it (because it wasn't entirely consensual, or because he promised to give the young man's body back but couldn't) and has been doing favors for Hettie when the opportunity arose. As for why he's kept it secret... mostly that's between him and Hettie, but also because if he DID try to explain, nobody would listen. (Do I believe this is what happened? Nope. But it's not so implausible as to be completely stupid - while plenty implausible to qualify as wild spec.) |
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tpman
Full Member
Posts: 161
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Post by tpman on Jun 15, 2013 2:08:29 GMT
The way I always imagined it, once something like Coyote is created it's just retroactively forced on the timeline and time in GC follows the "big timey wimy ball" approach. COuld also be that time reboots whenever a new etheric being is created, starting again from the point that etheric being was supposed to start existing.
I suppose it's also possible that Coyote existed since the beginning of time because he would one day be dreamed into being.
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Post by Corvo on Jun 15, 2013 4:09:51 GMT
As for Game of Thrones, I swear, if I hear one more word about a "Red Wedding" out of my coworkers, the next senseless act of violence in America will happen at my job site. Heh! Yeah man, go all Red Wedding Mist on them. |
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Post by GK Sierra on Jun 15, 2013 5:18:55 GMT
As for Game of Thrones, I swear, if I hear one more word about a "Red Wedding" out of my coworkers, the next senseless act of violence in America will happen at my job site. Heh! Yeah man, go all Red Wedding Mist on them. I'll burst into the boardroom, ammunition chains around my neck like some crazed vigilante and scream I CAN'T READ YOUR MIND, BUT I CAN KICK YOUR ASS, BY GOD! After that, I am foreseeing a lengthy stretch in the hoosegow. |
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Post by The Anarch on Jun 15, 2013 5:45:29 GMT
I don't like this idea, because it essentially renders the concept of time/history meaningless. Because, if nobody actually experiences these retroactive changes -even if the false memories of doing so exist- then could said history be said to have ever really happened? Could you really have been said to have changed the past in this manner, which is indistinguishable from merely changing the present? In fact, with such a system could the "past" truly exist at all?I like the way Alan Wake put it. This act of creation is exhilarating and frightening. Subtext and symbols loom, eager to take effect. Causality and consequence become domino chains that stretch into infinity. The more fundamental the change, the more unpredictable the variables become; reality is too complex to control completely. Ordinary questions become meaningless.
"Who created who?"
"What is really real?"
Everything is as real as everything else. You learn to let go of the things you can't control and go with the flow, or go insane. |
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Post by Corvo on Jun 15, 2013 5:45:46 GMT
I'll burst into the boardroom, ammunition chains around my neck like some crazed vigilante and scream I CAN'T READ YOUR MIND, BUT I CAN KICK YOUR ASS, BY GOD! After that, I am foreseeing a lengthy stretch in the hoosegow. Either that or in the bughouse. Maybe you can get some time off by digging a tunnel with a spoon. |
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Post by Corvo on Jun 15, 2013 5:53:36 GMT
You learn to let go of the things you can't control and go with the flow, or go insane. Hmm... Do I get a third option? |
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Post by The Anarch on Jun 15, 2013 6:27:57 GMT
You learn to let go of the things you can't control and go with the flow, or go insane. Hmm... Do I get a third option? Die horribly? That seems to be how it works in most of these "control reality" situations. Usually in tandem with "go insane". |
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Post by Corvo on Jun 15, 2013 6:34:17 GMT
Hmm... Do I get a third option? Die horribly? That seems to be how it works in most of these "control reality" situations. Usually in tandem with "go insane". Aww man. I was hoping for "turn into an evil genius and actually acquire control over things you shouldn't be able to". |
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Post by GK Sierra on Jun 15, 2013 7:00:12 GMT
I don't like this idea, because it essentially renders the concept of time/history meaningless. Because, if nobody actually experiences these retroactive changes -even if the false memories of doing so exist- then could said history be said to have ever really happened? Could you really have been said to have changed the past in this manner, which is indistinguishable from merely changing the present? In fact, with such a system could the "past" truly exist at all?To my mind, if there was a change, it would have to have happened at some definable point, and the existence of the previous universe would still be a fact, even if evidence of it was erased. Since the present depends on what has happened in the past, the past would necessarily be different. The opinion I have heard most is that it is in actuality impossible to travel back in time, except by wormhole which is wildly impractical. Of course, you can still go into "the future" via time dilation, speeding up until you approach the speed of light. The record for a human being is a quarter of a second's travel into the future as compared to clocks on the ground. I believe it was a cosmonaut on one of the Russian space stations, possibly the Mir. I doubt he feels much different. There are some who maintain that every time a differentiable change happens in the universe, it splits off into two, one in which the change did happen, and another in which it didn't. There are some who say time only appears to flow forwards for us because of our position as observers. I don't really know who to believe because I don't understand the science behind it. Maybe I need to spend some time working for a Swiss patent office. I like the way Alan Wake put it. reality is too complex to control completely. Ordinary questions become meaningless.
"Who created who?"
"What is really real?"
Everything is as real as everything else. You learn to let go of the things you can't control and go with the flow, or go insane. I'm starting to think reality is getting too complex to even control at all. We've injected such interconnectedness and unpredictability into the business of living that not even the people designated our leaders can sort this crap out. It's kind of scary to meet some of them and realize that when it comes down to it, they really don't know how to work this colossal system either. We're all just kind of strapped along for the ride, praying it doesn't jump the rails as it accelerates exponentially towards infinity. |
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Post by Corvo on Jun 15, 2013 7:21:36 GMT
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Post by Mezzaphor on Jun 15, 2013 18:10:22 GMT
The way I always imagined it, once something like Coyote is created it's just retroactively forced on the timeline and time in GC follows the "big timey wimy ball" approach. COuld also be that time reboots whenever a new etheric being is created, starting again from the point that etheric being was supposed to start existing. I suppose it's also possible that Coyote existed since the beginning of time because he would one day be dreamed into being. Timey wimey can't be possible because Tom hates Doctor Who. |
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Post by Per on Jun 15, 2013 18:52:01 GMT
Tom may have abandoned the notion of "Gunnerkrigg Court" being her memoirs. Which is troubling, because now Annie could totally die or something. I imagined your avatar saying that. |
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Post by GK Sierra on Jun 15, 2013 19:10:43 GMT
Hey, just letting you know Corvo, your last two links gave me a 403 Forbidden error. |
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Post by Corvo on Jun 15, 2013 19:46:39 GMT
Hey, just letting you know Corvo, your last two links gave me a 403 Forbidden error. Thanks, man! Oddly enough, they're working well for me. |
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Post by Steam Engine on Jun 15, 2013 19:54:25 GMT
Timey wimey can't be possible because Tom hates Doctor Who. HE WHAT? Please. Please tell me you are kidding, or that Tom hates Moffat, or he hates Smith, or he hates Tennant, BUT PLEASE DON'T TELL ME HE HATES THE MOST AWESOME AND THE MOST GODDAMN PRECIOUS THING IN MY WHOLE MISERABLE LIFE! |
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