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Post by Deleted on Jun 7, 2013 5:16:09 GMT
Has it been put forward that Jones is Eve yet? Granted, it's not the strongest supposition, but that's why the thread's called 'wild speculation,' no? Yes. The reason it's most often shot down by others is that Christian (Abrahamic) mythology has a very minimal presence within the comic. That said, it's entirely possible - especially within the zany, wacky world of wild speculation. |
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Post by snipertom on Jun 7, 2013 5:40:47 GMT
Has it been put forward that Jones is Eve yet? Granted, it's not the strongest supposition, but that's why the thread's called 'wild speculation,' no? Yes. The reason it's most often shot down by others is that Christian (Abrahamic) mythology has a very minimal presence within the comic. That said, it's entirely possible - especially within the zany, wacky world of wild speculation. Perhaps she is a personification of the "idea of a woman" in the Platonic sense- en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Idea#Philosophy |
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Post by spritznar on Jun 7, 2013 7:27:28 GMT
Has it been put forward that Jones is Eve yet? Granted, it's not the strongest supposition, but that's why the thread's called 'wild speculation,' no? Yes. The reason it's most often shot down by others is that Christian (Abrahamic) mythology has a very minimal presence within the comic. That said, it's entirely possible - especially within the zany, wacky world of wild speculation. although if you're wildly speculating in that direction, i wonder if a version of lilith might be a better match than eve? (jones doesn't seem like the mother type to me) |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 7, 2013 11:19:01 GMT
Yes. The reason it's most often shot down by others is that Christian (Abrahamic) mythology has a very minimal presence within the comic. That said, it's entirely possible - especially within the zany, wacky world of wild speculation. although if you're wildly speculating in that direction, i wonder if a version of lilith might be a better match than eve? (jones doesn't seem like the mother type to me) That one was put forward a lot during 'The Stone' threads, as well. Also seemed like a potentially decent match. |
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piat
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Post by piat on Jun 9, 2013 18:05:14 GMT
Does Kat's Romani ancestry have anything to do with her mom's magic? Has this been addressed yet? Not stereotyping here, but the Romani have a long history of magic in their culture.
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Post by snipertom on Jun 9, 2013 18:27:23 GMT
although if you're wildly speculating in that direction, i wonder if a version of lilith might be a better match than eve? (jones doesn't seem like the mother type to me) That one was put forward a lot during 'The Stone' threads, as well. Also seemed like a potentially decent match. lilith is meant to be seductive. Jones is... the opposite. |
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Post by philman on Jun 9, 2013 20:13:39 GMT
That one was put forward a lot during 'The Stone' threads, as well. Also seemed like a potentially decent match. lilith is meant to be seductive. Jones is... the opposite. To you perhaps. Some men like the super-strong, super-serious type... |
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Post by GK Sierra on Jun 9, 2013 20:19:15 GMT
lilith is meant to be seductive. Jones is... the opposite. To you perhaps. Some men like the super-strong, super-serious type... I draw the line at a woman being indestructible and having the ability to rip me limb from limb. Also, I imagine she's something of a dead fish when it comes to anything more than a purely platonic/research-oriented relationship. |
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Post by The Anarch on Jun 9, 2013 20:40:55 GMT
a purely platonic/research-oriented relationship. Hawt. |
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Post by cannister on Jun 9, 2013 20:43:49 GMT
lilith is meant to be seductive. Jones is... the opposite. She's been known to attach herself to a number of people over the course of her existence, taking their names upon death and providing emotional relief in the mean time. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 9, 2013 20:47:49 GMT
If it weren't for her weight, I'd argue that it'd be entirely possible that she provides/ed more than emotional relief to those she cared for.
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Post by Steam Engine on Jun 9, 2013 21:05:34 GMT
Two words for Jones-Lilith theory lovers: undestructable hymen.
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Post by Toloc on Jun 9, 2013 21:13:19 GMT
Well, I don't know my apocrypha all that well, but from what I remember, wouldn't Lilith be more of a motherly type than Eve? Vengeful mother of hordes of demons and all... Not sure if I'm mixing up traditional lore and pop culture in this case. Anyway when I think about it, I can construct neither an Eve nor a Lilith archetype from Jones. She doesn't fit either bill by a long shot. Although Lilith's rebellion angle might work a little better. If you can call a constant attitude that says "Yeah, I don't care. Your whole civilization will be gone in a few hundred years anyways. I'm going to wait here 'til then." rebellion... And she was condemned for being a witch in the middle ages. For what it's worth Steam Engine :  |
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Post by cannister on Jun 10, 2013 4:08:08 GMT
Yeah, personally I don't think it's at all likely unless the classic myth is being spun by more than a few degrees. I just hadn't seen the idea come up anywhere before, which I found odd.
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Post by GK Sierra on Jun 10, 2013 7:18:45 GMT
Two words for Jones-Lilith theory lovers: undestructable hymen. I was going to try to put it a bit more delicately, but yes, this is a succinct summation of the problems with any kind of Jones/romance angle. So the question is, is Jones merely offering to be Eglamore's shoulder to cry on because she wants another strategic partner to attach to? |
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Post by snipertom on Jun 10, 2013 7:31:42 GMT
Two words for Jones-Lilith theory lovers: undestructable hymen. I was going to try to put it a bit more delicately, but yes, this is a succinct summation of the problems with any kind of Jones/romance angle. So the question is, is Jones merely offering to be Eglamore's shoulder to cry on because she wants another strategic partner to attach to? I think the "strategic partner" thing happened much earlier, in his childhood; and she seems to be a substitute mother-figure for him (which may explain also why Surma didn't like Jones, and part of why he's still single) |
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Post by Corvo on Jun 10, 2013 8:49:17 GMT
I'm with the Gaia theory. Cause "it could cut the very Earth", you know.
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Post by philman on Jun 10, 2013 14:59:12 GMT
I don't buy the Jones as Lilith/Eve idea. For a start, Tom has said she is a creation of his, not a thing from mythology. But also other than being very old, she doesn't really have anything else going for her. I can see her being a Gaia/Mother Earth type figure, except that she doesn't seem very nurturing. Maybe along a similar vein as Coyote's theory, but not either of those two people specifically. She is literally the planet given human shape, cannot be harmed on earth as she IS the earth (might be interesting to see her interacting with a meteorite). Has existed since the dawn of time, because the earth has existed since the dawn of time.
Also, a sudden thought. The Court is interested in manipulating the ether right? And according to Coyote's theory, it is human minds fuelling the ether that created the physical manifestations of gods such as himself in the first place. What if Jones is the ultimate result of the court's meddling in the ether. She is not etheric, but is clearly not human or mortal. She is an artificial god, created by the artificial meddling with the ether, rather than naturally allowing minds to affect it, and is a manifestation of the earth from the dawn of the planet itself.
-It's a thought, but clearly needs work.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 10, 2013 17:10:18 GMT
Also, a sudden thought. The Court is interested in manipulating the ether right? And according to Coyote's theory, it is human minds fuelling the ether that created the physical manifestations of gods such as himself in the first place. What if Jones is the ultimate result of the court's meddling in the ether. She is not etheric, but is clearly not human or mortal. She is an artificial god, created by the artificial meddling with the ether, rather than naturally allowing minds to affect it, and is a manifestation of the earth from the dawn of the planet itself. -It's a thought, but clearly needs work. Both Jones and Zimmy have been speculated as products of the Court's research. Unless Zimmy escaped when she was too small to remember it and then was recaptured, both of these events would violate causality. While there have been hints that certain things could possibly be linked non-linearly through time, it hasn't really been a major theme thusfar. I'm disinclined to believe that we've seen any fruits of the Court's research quite yet, beyond Anja's "computer," Jack's binding seal, and possibly Eglamore's weapons. Upon reflection, I'd actually be okay if Jones' "true nature" was never revealed. She's a pretty solid character as-is. |
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Post by Toloc on Jun 10, 2013 21:16:24 GMT
Well, it is reasonable to assume that Jones "origin"/"creation" would be in our time, as she matches modern beauty ideals and her body is unchangeable since the creation of the Earth.
It is kinda hard to imagine an ancient nomad thinking "hey, that stone looks like an indestructible, eternal, skinny, white woman with a blonde bob cut. Dang, that'd be hot."
Given that Coyotes theory is true.
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Post by GK Sierra on Jun 11, 2013 0:11:30 GMT
Well, it is reasonable to assume that Jones "origin"/"creation" would be in our time, as she matches modern beauty ideals and her body is unchangeable since the creation of the Earth. It is kinda hard to imagine an ancient nomad thinking "hey, that stone looks like an indestructible, eternal, skinny, white woman with a blonde bob cut. Dang, that'd be hot." Given that Coyotes theory is true. I have my fingers crossed for a retroactive/time travel twist. |
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Post by Nnelg on Jun 11, 2013 3:31:10 GMT
Well, it is reasonable to assume that Jones "origin"/"creation" would be in our time, as she matches modern beauty ideals and her body is unchangeable since the creation of the Earth. It is kinda hard to imagine an ancient nomad thinking "hey, that stone looks like an indestructible, eternal, skinny, white woman with a blonde bob cut. Dang, that'd be hot." Unless her appearance is a function of the beholder. (Presumably, the beholder in question is Tom or Annie.) |
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Post by GK Sierra on Jun 11, 2013 4:40:42 GMT
Well, it is reasonable to assume that Jones "origin"/"creation" would be in our time, as she matches modern beauty ideals and her body is unchangeable since the creation of the Earth. It is kinda hard to imagine an ancient nomad thinking "hey, that stone looks like an indestructible, eternal, skinny, white woman with a blonde bob cut. Dang, that'd be hot." Unless her appearance is a function of the beholder. (Presumably, the beholder in question is Tom or Annie.) True. Plot convenience is not something that often enters discussion here. Probably because people don't find it as exciting. |
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Post by Toloc on Jun 11, 2013 6:53:43 GMT
Possible, but then any pictures of her would have to have the same properties. |
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Post by download on Jun 11, 2013 6:59:09 GMT
Well, it is reasonable to assume that Jones "origin"/"creation" would be in our time, as she matches modern beauty ideals and her body is unchangeable since the creation of the Earth. It is kinda hard to imagine an ancient nomad thinking "hey, that stone looks like an indestructible, eternal, skinny, white woman with a blonde bob cut. Dang, that'd be hot." Given that Coyotes theory is true. I have my fingers crossed for a retroactive/time travel twist. Same. I don't think Jones is a being of the Ether. I think time travel lead to her being at the beginning of the earth |
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Post by Steam Engine on Jun 11, 2013 11:30:14 GMT
I have my fingers crossed for a retroactive/time travel twist. Same. I don't think Jones is a being of the Ether. I think time travel lead to her being at the beginning of the earth She was created by the Doctor, because he was tired of saving UK the Earth again and again. |
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Post by November on Jun 11, 2013 12:33:09 GMT
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tpman
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Post by tpman on Jun 13, 2013 4:01:00 GMT
Yes. The reason it's most often shot down by others is that Christian (Abrahamic) mythology has a very minimal presence within the comic. That said, it's entirely possible - especially within the zany, wacky world of wild speculation. Perhaps she is a personification of the "idea of a woman" in the Platonic sense- en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Idea#PhilosophyI like the idea, but I'm still hoping that she's the product of some future religion (but along similar lines to what you said). |
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Post by philman on Jun 13, 2013 9:49:24 GMT
I like the idea, but I'm still hoping that she's the product of some future religion (but along similar lines to what you said). If she's the product of a future religion that wouldn't work, the way coyote described it he never exised until people believed in him, when suddenly he always existed. As with the Stars example, the stars were always there, but it was only when humans came along that they had been there only since coyote put them there. The religious creatures both only exist once they are believed in, but then have always existed. I'm still going with some sort of creation by the court in the same way. They created her as a personification of observable science, but then she had always existed, |
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Post by The Anarch on Jun 13, 2013 16:10:24 GMT
It's possible that the story as we're seeing it isn't happening in its own present but in the past of that future in which Jones was created, so that this is the version of past events where Jones always existed.
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