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Post by Elaienar on Dec 28, 2010 21:28:24 GMT
I like the way you think!
But! I will only support your wild speculation if you amend it. Coyote told Surma to make Renard fall in love with her so that he'd want magic body-snatching powers, but then after he got the powers Renard became very BORING. He angsted about how he could never be together with Surma because she probably wouldn't be cool with the whole host-dies thing. Coyote got so fed up with his continual moping around the forest that he went to Surma and begged her to take him away.
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Post by jayne on Dec 28, 2010 21:31:51 GMT
Baha! Oh how about Rey and Surma were a happy couple for a while and Coyote got so fed up hearing Rey go on constantly about how great she is and how wonderful she is... (on and on)
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Post by Elaienar on Dec 29, 2010 5:45:24 GMT
Yes so at Coyote's urgent request Surma spirited Renard away to the Court! But after a while she got tired of him writing soppy romatic poetry about the stars in her eyes and worshipping the ground she walked on, it was very inconvenient, and Eglamore kept on looking at her like "Really? You left me for THIS?" which was really annoying, so she asked the Powers That Be'd to lock him up for a bit. And then before she had time to cool down she fell for Anthony, because he was the polar opposite of Renard.
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Post by Stately Buff-Cookie on Dec 29, 2010 23:24:37 GMT
Oooh Jayne. So close, but not close enough for me to eat Elaienar's hat. Seems you know Coyote fairly well. Your latest theory.. I'm not even going to risk that one. I'd bet money that he did teach Surma to fly.
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anisky
Junior Member
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Post by anisky on Dec 30, 2010 7:53:50 GMT
Going waaaaaaaaay back into the past for this post, but in order to understand Renard, we need to understand why he did the only really bad thing, besides killing that unnamed man by possessing him, we've seen him do-- try to possess (and thus kill) Annie. He did the first one out of obsessive love for Surma, and I think most of us find it hard to swallow that he really tried to kill Annie.
Why is this under wild speculation? This is why:
My theory is that Annie is technically A ZOMBIE!!
By that I mean that her life force is not biological. That "fire" and "spirit" she has that was passed to her from her mother is what sustains her body. That's not even speculation, wild or not; without the fire/spirit, Surma died. It literally was the force that sustained her life.
Coyote said that if Renard possessed a body, it would die once it was "used up." We've never seen Renard possess a robot to my knowledge, so I don't know if the robot would cease to function after he left it. But if we assume that his taking possession kills the body biologically, and Annie's is sustained by some other force, then possessing her might not kill her. The psychopomps didn't come for Surma because there NOTHING LEFT-- without that fire/spirit, Surma (and thus Annie) doesn't seem to have a soul, and also biologically her body can't function.
We don't know quite how much Reynardine understands about what Surma is, but he seems fairly well in the loop about it. It's possible he understands the intricacies.
So if Annie is, by all biological measures, already dead (A ZOMBIE) (though it might be more appropriate to say that biologically Annie was never alive), and her soul is a hand-me-down from a dead woman (A ZOMBIE SOUL, if you will), then perhaps Renard knew possessing her can't kill her. Since, you know, she's already dead, but is walkin' and talkin' and gettin' into all sorts of crazy adventures anyway.
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Post by junebug on Dec 31, 2010 19:33:56 GMT
Jones is a goddamn beholder. I love you <3 this is the bestest Jones theory ever. |
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Post by red0mamma on Dec 31, 2010 20:27:04 GMT
Hi, All-
New meat here. Had to create an account to add this to the wild speculation thread.
I think Jones could be Anthony. They have the similar eyes, personal traits and facial expressions (or lack thereof), Coyote also says she steals names so it's possible she can change her (his?) identity, and she's had a lot of interest in Annie.
Another possibility is Anthony and Jones are related or the same (non-human) species. "Isn't exactly human" doesn't necessarily mean "part" human...could be sarcasm on Coyote's part. We've seen other characters who look human, but aren't—like Kat's boyfriend and the fairies when they pass the test.
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Post by crysiana on Jan 1, 2011 0:46:58 GMT
Guys, I have an obvious one. Surma and Antimony are pacific salmon. Semelparous nature, red, etc. Alternately: they are agave.
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coyotagoat
Junior Member
Helluva poker face.
Posts: 65
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Post by coyotagoat on Jan 1, 2011 2:29:41 GMT
So hey. Haven't been on in a while, but this idea/thing I noticed was wild-speccy enough to draw me out of lurk-dom.
So I was thinking about Coyote, and Wandering Eye, and noticed that in that page we only ever saw one side of his face (ergo, one eye (on his face, that is. He has plenty of others, it seems.)). Looking back, I noticed that we really only ever see him in profile (except I think one instance in fangs of summertime, where he is in the background, and therefore drawn with very little detail. Even when he is the moon, he has one eye. I always just took this to be Tom's way of drawing him, but the possibility occurred to me that this could be because he only has the one; which lends more credibility to the already established theory that Jone's is Coyote's missing eye that became a star. Which, while not very new, is pretty trippy, when you think about it.
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paracelsus
New Member
Dreams must be heeded and accepted. For a great many of them come true.
Posts: 22
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Post by paracelsus on Jan 1, 2011 4:17:16 GMT
A theory that is VERY interesting... While that idea of a Triple Goddess is very intriguing, I do take issue with it a bit, though the issues I take are totally my own personal opinions.Nevermind. After really thinking about it, I can see how it could work out flawlessly with the story as we know it now. Part of me still takes issue about the main character learning about their true identity so soon, which would appear to be happening now. Personally I think that would be something to happen late in the story line, as a twist. Then again, Tom is an excellent writer, and who am I to criticize his story before it is done being unfolded... Still, a VERY interesting theory. I think this theory in itself is worthy of at least one internet, even if it doesn't turn out to be right. |
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Post by rohaigirl on Jan 1, 2011 7:18:37 GMT
This just occurred to me and I don't know exactly where to put it.
If the bodies that Rey possesses die when he leaves them, why doesn't his foxy body die? He's gone back and forth between his fox body and others before, judging from the dead rabbit, but... Is it because he IS immortal in his fox form? Has that been answered?
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Post by jayne on Jan 1, 2011 14:56:46 GMT
This just occurred to me and I don't know exactly where to put it. If the bodies that Rey possesses die when he leaves them, why doesn't his foxy body die? He's gone back and forth between his fox body and others before, judging from the dead rabbit, but... Is it because he IS immortal in his fox form? Has that been answered? If Coyote hadn't put it in suspended animation, his body would have died of starvation/thirst because there was no way for it to eat or drink while Rey's life force was in another body. Coyote says he has preserved it, forever young and healthy. In effect, his body is immortal in it's current state but even before Rey started jumping bodies, he's been alive for at least hundreds of years. |
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Post by paxjax123 on Jan 1, 2011 15:30:24 GMT
This just occurred to me and I don't know exactly where to put it. If the bodies that Rey possesses die when he leaves them, why doesn't his foxy body die? He's gone back and forth between his fox body and others before, judging from the dead rabbit, but... Is it because he IS immortal in his fox form? Has that been answered? Assuming there are other body snatchers for a moment, I would imagine that their original body does not die, because that is what they were originally tied to. |
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Post by imaginaryfriend on Jan 2, 2011 6:49:57 GMT
Part of me still takes issue about the main character learning about their true identity so soon, which would appear to be happening now. Personally I think that would be something to happen late in the story line, as a twist. Then again, Tom is an excellent writer, and who am I to criticize his story before it is done being unfolded... Don't worry, I have the strange feeling that we won't learn everything about Antimony's secret identity and/or true nature in this chapter. Still, a VERY interesting theory. Thanks! If true it has many fascinating dimensions, like that it predicts the existence (though not necessarily the appearance in the comic) of two other important characters we haven't met so far. It also puts an entirely new spin on the parallels between Antimony's adventures and Surma's. |
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Post by paxjax123 on Jan 5, 2011 18:33:24 GMT
Which would then beg the question of how a Native American god became connected with an Egyptian goddess, although it's probably been long enough since Coyote came to the Forest that he might have met other gods and goddesses in other places. Hey, problem here, The "Wandering Eye" mentioned here is a goddess of merryment and festivals, when she left the land was dull and boring, Jones has no emotion to be shown. I like the "one of Coyote's lost eyes" theory much better. Could it be that Coyote has different eyes for different emotions (like GLaDOS) and Jones was the srs eye? |
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Post by jayne on Jan 5, 2011 19:02:39 GMT
Hey, problem here, The "Wandering Eye" mentioned here is a goddess of merryment and festivals, when she left the land was dull and boring, Jones has no emotion to be shown. I like the "one of Coyote's lost eyes" theory much better. Could it be that Coyote has different eyes for different emotions (like GLaDOS) and Jones was the srs eye? So... Coyote has cake??  |
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Post by blahzor on Jan 6, 2011 6:47:37 GMT
which lends more credibility to the already established theory that Jone's is Coyote's missing eye that became a star. Which, while not very new, is pretty trippy, when you think about it. it shall be written in Wild Speculation Stone that Jones is officially Coyote's eye. you have convince me dear sir! P.S. anyone else notice how the inside of Coyote's eye got more detailed from the 2nd to last to last panel in the new page (822) |
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Post by blahzor on Jan 6, 2011 6:51:48 GMT
This just occurred to me and I don't know exactly where to put it. If the bodies that Rey possesses die when he leaves them, why doesn't his foxy body die? He's gone back and forth between his fox body and others before, judging from the dead rabbit, but... Is it because he IS immortal in his fox form? Has that been answered? If Coyote hadn't put it in suspended animation, his body would have died of starvation/thirst because there was no way for it to eat or drink while Rey's life force was in another body. Coyote says he has preserved it, forever young and healthy. In effect, his body is immortal in it's current state but even before Rey started jumping bodies, he's been alive for at least hundreds of years. Re-reading that page makes me question why Young and Healthy were put in bold like it would be bad if it was in the form he last left it in |
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Post by jayne on Jan 6, 2011 14:59:30 GMT
If Coyote hadn't put it in suspended animation, his body would have died of starvation/thirst because there was no way for it to eat or drink while Rey's life force was in another body. Coyote says he has preserved it, forever young and healthy. In effect, his body is immortal in it's current state but even before Rey started jumping bodies, he's been alive for at least hundreds of years. Re-reading that page makes me question why Young and Healthy were put in bold like it would be bad if it was in the form he last left it in Well, Tom said his body would die of starvation if it wasn't fed, but he's been alive for centuries so he's not quite immortal if he has to eat to stay alive. He just has an unknown life span.  |
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Post by marcador on Jan 6, 2011 17:37:08 GMT
Maybe when his body dies he just has to go to another, so Rey will live until there are no bodies left for him to go to. If he mated, how long would his offspring live, would that depend on if he was in his original body, would they have his abilities (changing shape, taking bodies, etc.) and who would they obey? (just imagined 4 little Reys curled up sleeping, changing from toy to wolf every few minutes. Put your hand up if that would be cute!  ) |
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Post by Tobu Ishi on Jan 6, 2011 18:16:44 GMT
This just occurred to me and I don't know exactly where to put it. If the bodies that Rey possesses die when he leaves them, why doesn't his foxy body die? He's gone back and forth between his fox body and others before, judging from the dead rabbit, but... Is it because he IS immortal in his fox form? Has that been answered? Personally, I would guess that Rey's body, belonging rightfully to him and with nothing and no-one else occupying it, remains in stasis until he returns to it, regardless. The reason Coyote had to put it in stasis is most likely because even a "waiting" body needs sustenance and sleep, and Reynardine hasn't come "home" in quite a while. Likewise, I would guess that the other bodies die because Rey's spirit boots out the original spirit when he moves in, severing its tie to its own body and killing it as surely as that body's destruction would have done. Then, when he moves out again, there's nobody at the wheel whatsoever and the empty body just dies. |
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Post by gumbamasta on Jan 6, 2011 21:19:17 GMT
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Post by blahzor on Jan 7, 2011 19:23:04 GMT
This just occurred to me and I don't know exactly where to put it. If the bodies that Rey possesses die when he leaves them, why doesn't his foxy body die? He's gone back and forth between his fox body and others before, judging from the dead rabbit, but... Is it because he IS immortal in his fox form? Has that been answered? Personally, I would guess that Rey's body, belonging rightfully to him and with nothing and no-one else occupying it, remains in stasis until he returns to it, regardless. The reason Coyote had to put it in stasis is most likely because even a "waiting" body needs sustenance and sleep, and Reynardine hasn't come "home" in quite a while. Likewise, I would guess that the other bodies die because Rey's spirit boots out the original spirit when he moves in, severing its tie to its own body and killing it as surely as that body's destruction would have done. Then, when he moves out again, there's nobody at the wheel whatsoever and the empty body just dies. that makes too much sense and probably right! get that mess out of Wild Speculation  |
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Post by Elaienar on Jan 8, 2011 5:19:12 GMT
WILD SPECULATION about the nature of the Gunnerverse: The psychopomps come for two things when they escort the dead: first, the person's life force, which they recycle into the aether somehow to be re-used at a later date (hence the world continues to spin because the dead of one living creature means the possibility of life for another), and the person's soul, which they send off to the afterlife. Surma's "fire" was in fact her life force, and as she had already passed it on to Antimony, manual recycling was not necessary. In a similar vein, since her life had become Antimony's, she no longer fell under the jurisdiction of any of the other psychopomps, and so Antimony had to take her soul to the afterlife. I'd also like to throw this out there: perhaps the first hybrid human-fire elemental was not, in fact, the product of a union between an elemental and a human (because one, I really don't want to think about how that would work, and two, the only human/non-human couple we've seen so far don't seem to have any children) but a human who had somehow been invested with a fire elemental's life force. |
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Post by imaginaryfriend on Jan 8, 2011 20:59:32 GMT
Likewise, I would guess that the other bodies die because Rey's spirit boots out the original spirit when he moves in, severing its tie to its own body and killing it as surely as that body's destruction would have done. Then, when he moves out again, there's nobody at the wheel whatsoever and the empty body just dies. According to Formspring the psychopomp comes when Renard leaves the body he's possessing. I think that must indicate that the spirit remains in the body the whole time but cannot reestablish itself once Renard leaves. It's actually merciful that death comes right away, actually, instead of the spirit being trapped there until the body wastes. |
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Post by fronzel on Jan 10, 2011 4:56:54 GMT
Background: Tom has said that when Coyote gives a power to someone else (i.e. body-stealing to Renard) he no longer has it himself. He apparently wanted to give all his powers to Renard.
(Wild) Speculation: Coyote wants to take "the test" and become human (probably just so he can cause trouble to amuse himself) and needs to dispense with his godly power first.
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Post by jayne on Jan 10, 2011 12:12:25 GMT
Background: Tom has said that when Coyote gives a power to someone else (i.e. body-stealing to Renard) he no longer has it himself. He apparently wanted to give all his powers to Renard. (Wild) Speculation: Coyote wants to take "the test" and become human (probably just so he can cause trouble to amuse himself) and needs to dispense with his godly power first. OH no... he would never give ALL his powers away... I doubt he would give away anything that would make anyone more powerful than he is. |
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Post by goldenknots on Jan 10, 2011 16:06:17 GMT
Where did Tom say that Coyote's powers were transferred, rather than given? I couldn't find that, and I don't see any reason for it to logically follow that his granting of, say, body stealing power would result in his own loss of that power.
Loren
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Post by jayne on Jan 10, 2011 16:12:27 GMT
Where did Tom say that Coyote's powers were transferred, rather than given? I couldn't find that, and I don't see any reason for it to logically follow that his granting of, say, body stealing power would result in his own loss of that power. Loren via formspring |
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Post by blahzor on Jan 11, 2011 0:39:35 GMT
I finally figured it out!
Coyote is the First Evil but cleverly disguised by Tom as someone likable
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