ryos
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Post by ryos on Oct 29, 2010 6:11:50 GMT
Wild speculation about the past:
1. Renard takes a human boy and attempts to woo Surma. This eventually hits the fan.
2. Surma is *pissed*. Entirely disenfranchised with the Court, with the Forest, the job of mediation between the two, and the etherium in general, she leaves her post and seeks to be as far from all of it as possible. This involves marrying Anthony Carver.
3. Surma attempts to transfer her etheric ability to Antimony through some in-utero process. Perhaps she wishes to be free of it; perhaps Anthony wishes it; perhaps she just wants her daughter to have it; or maybe she wasn't trying to divest herself, and merely wanted to endow her daughter.
Whatever the reason, whatever the goal, it doesn't go as planned. The result is a catastrophic blow to Surma's health, and as Antimony grows, Surma weakens.
4. The Psychopomps do not come for Surma. I have two wild ideas about this. One, they could have been attempting to stimulate Annie's growth as an etherium-aware person. Two, perhaps it was truly Annie's right and duty to escort her mom, perhaps due to the transfer of powers, or something else. We know they are territorial and respecters of territory...
This isn't really a serious theory. It's probably wrong. But in the meantime, it eases the static in my mind that all the mysterious hints Tom's been dropping throughout the comic have caused.
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Post by Tobu Ishi on Oct 29, 2010 8:51:34 GMT
You guys! You guys! I have some TOTALLY WILD THEORIES! - Surma gave up on Jimmy because he was taking her for granted and gone all the time doing heroic stuff! - She did not marry Reynardine because he is not a human being and also he killed somebody! (Not ideal qualities in a spouse.) - She decided to marry Anthony because she liked him and he was actually around and not a murderer! - Antimony looks like Surma and has similar powers because she is her daughter! - And Surma died of some kind of medical condition or illness, which had little or nothing to do with Antimony's birth! I know these theories are incredibly unrealistic and hard to believe, but I just thought I would throw them out there, in case of the wild and crazy chance that they are true.  |
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Fuin
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Post by Fuin on Oct 29, 2010 8:58:21 GMT
Oh Tobu Ishi, you're so crazy.
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Post by rafk on Oct 29, 2010 9:03:31 GMT
At least try to be believable. Honestly  You guys! You guys! I have some TOTALLY WILD THEORIES! - Surma gave up on Jimmy because he was taking her for granted and gone all the time doing heroic stuff! - She did not marry Reynardine because he is not a human being and also he killed somebody! (Not ideal qualities in a spouse.) - She decided to marry Anthony because she liked him and he was actually around and not a murderer! - Antimony looks like Surma and has similar powers because she is her daughter! - And Surma died of some kind of medical condition or illness, which had little or nothing to do with Antimony's birth! I know these theories are incredibly unrealistic and hard to believe, but I just thought I would throw them out there, in case of the wild and crazy chance that they are true. |
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Post by shangrilaschild on Oct 29, 2010 13:20:58 GMT
Renard can take bodies basically. What if he was Anthony Carver? (it's early so I can't remember if we ever saw him in flashbacks). It would explain why Anthony was out of the picture (he had been captured) and part of Englemore disliking him so much (not that he doesn't have enough reasons probably) and why Renard sticks around Annie so much and why they let Annie keep him.
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Post by evilanagram on Oct 29, 2010 16:48:03 GMT
That's just about impossible. Anthony Carver is still alive, and when Renard takes a living body, the host dies when he leaves. Besides, Anthony's being out of the picture doesn't need explaining; the Donlans and Eglamore already explained that disappearing is something he tends to do.
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Post by bnpederson on Oct 29, 2010 16:48:55 GMT
Renard can take bodies basically. What if he was Anthony Carver? (it's early so I can't remember if we ever saw him in flashbacks). It would explain why Anthony was out of the picture (he had been captured) and part of Englemore disliking him so much (not that he doesn't have enough reasons probably) and why Renard sticks around Annie so much and why they let Annie keep him. But everyone Renard takes dies the moment he leaves it, and Anthony is still alive (it was stated Annie would see him again and I believe it's implied Renard has been in Sivo for quite some time). |
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ryos
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Post by ryos on Oct 29, 2010 17:44:24 GMT
You guys! You guys! I have some TOTALLY WILD THEORIES! - Surma gave up on Jimmy because he was taking her for granted and gone all the time doing heroic stuff! - She did not marry Reynardine because he is not a human being and also he killed somebody! (Not ideal qualities in a spouse.) - She decided to marry Anthony because she liked him and he was actually around and not a murderer! - Antimony looks like Surma and has similar powers because she is her daughter! - And Surma died of some kind of medical condition or illness, which had little or nothing to do with Antimony's birth! I know these theories are incredibly unrealistic and hard to believe, but I just thought I would throw them out there, in case of the wild and crazy chance that they are true. Haha, okay. You know, the only reason I'd think anything other than this is the myriad hints sprinkled throughout the comic that Surma and Annie shared something more than an ordinary mother-daughter bond. And, from what little we know of Anthony, he really just does not seem like Surma's type. |
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Post by Rex on Oct 29, 2010 20:39:34 GMT
ryos nailed it. Tobu's post seems like the reasonable turn of events that led to Annie coming to be, but so far Tom has tossed in enough eyebrow raising details about bother her parents to raise some doubt. Surma and Anthony, from what we've seen and heard, are polar opposites. They're very much like the Court and the Wood.
So either Tom did this to show that even opposites can find peace, even love, in each other or their union was the result of something else. Since this is Wild Spec, my guess is that Jones is responsible for it.
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Post by todd on Oct 29, 2010 22:10:43 GMT
Besides, the guy whom Reynardine possessed (shown in Chapter Twenty-one) doesn't even look like Anthony; Reynardine's victim had dark hair and Anthony has sandy-brown hair.
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Post by evilanagram on Oct 30, 2010 16:53:01 GMT
Haha, okay. You know, the only reason I'd think anything other than this is the myriad hints sprinkled throughout the comic that Surma and Annie shared something more than an ordinary mother-daughter bond. And, from what little we know of Anthony, he really just does not seem like Surma's type. Can you point to any of these "myriad hints" Tom sprinkles? |
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ryos
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Post by ryos on Oct 31, 2010 1:01:14 GMT
Haha, okay. You know, the only reason I'd think anything other than this is the myriad hints sprinkled throughout the comic that Surma and Annie shared something more than an ordinary mother-daughter bond. And, from what little we know of Anthony, he really just does not seem like Surma's type. Can you point to any of these "myriad hints" Tom sprinkles? I didn't really want to because I assume it's all been hashed and rehashed in this forum many times in the past. But since you asked, well... This is by no means an exhaustive list. It's just off the top of my head. Also, I am far too lazy to go looking for citations for these.  - Annie and Surma "couldn't bear to be apart", so much so that Annie decided to live in the hospital. That's pretty irregular, and an unusual decision for a young child to make (and for her parents to allow).
- Surma falls ill after bearing Annie, and remains bedridden and hospital-bound for 12 years. What medical condition, brought on by childbirth, could do that to a person? I can't think of any, can you?
- Physically, Surma looks pretty darn healthy. This could be because of the cartoony art style, or it could be because her malaise is more spiritual than physical.
- Surma's illness entails the loss of her ability to mediate for Psychopomps. That, or she just can't bring herself to do it anymore for some reason.
- When Surma died, none of the Psychopomps came for her. Of the myriad reasons they may have had for this, two sound most plausible to me: either they wanted to spur Annie's development as a medium, or they regarded it as her duty and right to do it (remember how territorial they are). The latter points to a very unusual connection between mother and daughter.
- People at the court (well, Anja and Reynardine) knew that Annie coming to the court = Surma is dead. In Anja's case it's easily explained away as her knowledge of a prearrangement...but would anyone bother to tell Rey that?
- Donald's line: "It's like Surma's come back to us."
- Coyote initially mistakes Annie for Surma. I find it very odd that he could make such a silly mistake. Unless Coyote perceives people through his etheric sense as much as through any of the ordinary five, and Annie bears Surma's "etheric scent".
Taken individually, any of these could be dismissed as slight irregularities. Collectively, at least in my mind, they form a great big flashing red arrow pointing to the conclusion that there's something peculiar about the ties shared between Annie and Surma. |
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Post by Yin on Oct 31, 2010 2:46:05 GMT
Wait, where'd you get the idea that Annie was the one who decided to stay in the hospital? She's lived there since young. It's just as likely that Surma couldn't bear to be parted from her daughter.
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Post by jayne on Oct 31, 2010 4:24:12 GMT
Surma lived in a long term care ward. Its not like the emergency room where you get treated and leave. This was Surma's home and her child and husband lived there with her.
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ryos
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Post by ryos on Oct 31, 2010 4:43:00 GMT
Wait, where'd you get the idea that Annie was the one who decided to stay in the hospital? She's lived there since young. It's just as likely that Surma couldn't bear to be parted from her daughter. : Also... Seems like if Anthony lived there, Annie'd've mentioned it. All she says is that he worked there. |
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Post by jayne on Oct 31, 2010 5:33:39 GMT
Wait, where'd you get the idea that Annie was the one who decided to stay in the hospital? She's lived there since young. It's just as likely that Surma couldn't bear to be parted from her daughter. : Also... Seems like if Anthony lived there, Annie'd've mentioned it. All she says is that he worked there. Anthony did live with them but they weren't very close... more mystery about Anthony but Annie cried cause she missed her mom, not for her dad. |
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ryos
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Post by ryos on Oct 31, 2010 7:39:48 GMT
What makes you say that?
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Post by jayne on Oct 31, 2010 13:56:06 GMT
Sorry, was too tired last night to add references:
And, I can't find the reference saying he lived there with them... I'll keep looking.
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Post by evilanagram on Oct 31, 2010 17:33:46 GMT
I didn't really want to because I assume it's all been hashed and rehashed in this forum many times in the past. But since you asked, well... This is by no means an exhaustive list. It's just off the top of my head. Also, I am far too lazy to go looking for citations for these. - Annie and Surma "couldn't bear to be apart", so much so that Annie decided to live in the hospital. That's pretty irregular, and an unusual decision for a young child to make (and for her parents to allow).
- Surma falls ill after bearing Annie, and remains bedridden and hospital-bound for 12 years. What medical condition, brought on by childbirth, could do that to a person? I can't think of any, can you?
- Physically, Surma looks pretty darn healthy. This could be because of the cartoony art style, or it could be because her malaise is more spiritual than physical.
- Surma's illness entails the loss of her ability to mediate for Psychopomps. That, or she just can't bring herself to do it anymore for some reason.
- When Surma died, none of the Psychopomps came for her. Of the myriad reasons they may have had for this, two sound most plausible to me: either they wanted to spur Annie's development as a medium, or they regarded it as her duty and right to do it (remember how territorial they are). The latter points to a very unusual connection between mother and daughter.
- People at the court (well, Anja and Reynardine) knew that Annie coming to the court = Surma is dead. In Anja's case it's easily explained away as her knowledge of a prearrangement...but would anyone bother to tell Rey that?
- Donald's line: "It's like Surma's come back to us."
- Coyote initially mistakes Annie for Surma. I find it very odd that he could make such a silly mistake. Unless Coyote perceives people through his etheric sense as much as through any of the ordinary five, and Annie bears Surma's "etheric scent".
Taken individually, any of these could be dismissed as slight irregularities. Collectively, at least in my mind, they form a great big flashing red arrow pointing to the conclusion that there's something peculiar about the ties shared between Annie and Surma. Actually, I could say that taken individually, any one of these could be dismissed as you misinterpreting or reading way too much into things. Most of them involve massive leaps of logic, eg: Coyote thinking Annie was Surma can be explained by her looking and smelling a lot like Surma (because she's Surma's daughter). And Donald's saying, "It's like Surma's come back to us," is simply his commenting on there being similarities in their behaviors and is not meant to be taken literally. The psychopomps wouldn't escort Surma because, as a mediator between them, none of them had a claim on her soul. Surma had Annie stay with her because Annie was her only daughter, and Surma couldn't leave her bed. Collectively, they don't really point to any actual conclusions. |
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ryos
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Post by ryos on Oct 31, 2010 19:10:08 GMT
That's certainly a reasonable way to look at things. And, well, you're probably right. But this is not "reasonable speculation", right? If you will allow me the indulgence of repeating myself:
I enjoy reading way too much into fiction and trying to predict what's up with any anomalies I see. It's like a puzzle, and it's fun. Do these hints I've cited really point to an unknown irregularity between Annie and Surma? A skeptic would reasonably say "no", but I save my skeptic's eye for nonfiction.
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Post by Lightice on Oct 31, 2010 20:37:03 GMT
And, I can't find the reference saying he lived there with them... I'll keep looking. They were a married couple. Why on earth would they not be living together, even if Anthony occasionally dissapears for months at the time? Also, we saw Anja receiving an e-mail or something to that effect in a flashback, and crying, and when Kat asked what was wrong, telling that she was going to get a new classmate. Shouldn't it be pretty obvious that the sender was Anthony who told both that Surma was dead and that Antimony was coming to the Court? There's hardly need for a mystical connection between the staff knowing about Surma's death and Annie's coming to study. Sometimes cigar is just a cigar. |
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Post by Casey on Oct 31, 2010 21:34:37 GMT
Also, we saw Anja receiving an e-mail or something to that effect in a flashback, and crying, and when Kat asked what was wrong, telling that she was going to get a new classmate. Shouldn't it be pretty obvious that the sender was Anthony who told both that Surma was dead and that Antimony was coming to the Court? Apropos of nothing but just for the sake of information, the document in question was simply Annie's student transfer papers. |
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ryos
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Post by ryos on Oct 31, 2010 21:39:13 GMT
And, I can't find the reference saying he lived there with them... I'll keep looking. They were a married couple. Why on earth would they not be living together, even if Anthony occasionally dissapears for months at the time? Because one of them lives in a hospital. I'm sure he spent a lot of time and a lot of nights there, but I'd also wager he still has an apartment. They had to have had one before Surma fell ill, so why not keep it? I assume that paragraph is in response to this: ...or rather, it is in response to only the first sentence, and ignores the rest. I can't really say more on the subject than what I've already said. If you want to persuade me I'm wrong, you'll need to address what I actually said. (Also, nitpick, it wasn't an email from Anthony; it was a transfer slip from the school. Edit: Ninja'd by Casey.  |
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Post by jayne on Nov 1, 2010 0:49:28 GMT
They were a married couple. Why on earth would they not be living together, even if Anthony occasionally dissapears for months at the time? Because one of them lives in a hospital. I'm sure he spent a lot of time and a lot of nights there, but I'd also wager he still has an apartment. They had to have had one before Surma fell ill, so why not keep it? I assume that paragraph is in response to this: ...or rather, it is in response to only the first sentence, and ignores the rest. I can't really say more on the subject than what I've already said. If you want to persuade me I'm wrong, you'll need to address what I actually said. (Also, nitpick, it wasn't an email from Anthony; it was a transfer slip from the school. Edit: Ninja'd by Casey. We just don't have enough information to decide if Anthony lived with them. I can't find the reference I thought I remembered, and no one else has chimed in. If Surma left the court because she was sick, they could have arranged a place with the hospital instead of having an apartment at all. In this one, Surma has a bed large enough for two, compared to Annie's twin sized bed. On the other hand... one pillow... Anthony wasn't there that evening. Surma's bed is on a pedestal, which makes me think its a decorating choice. No hospital would put stairs in the way of reaching a patient as quickly as possible will all those rolling machines that go beep! A normal husband would stay with his wife... 12 years is a long time with one side of the bed empty. Anthony, on the other hand... well we don't know what their deal is... |
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Post by Casey on Nov 1, 2010 1:12:20 GMT
Or here's another thought:
It's a comic, and sometimes things are drawn because they look cool.
Call me crazy...
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Post by jayne on Nov 1, 2010 2:04:38 GMT
Or here's another thought: It's a comic, and sometimes things are drawn because they look cool. Call me crazy... That is the major problem applying logic to art.  But with a story so compelling, its fun trying to work things out, even though... do we normally get it right? |
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Post by jayne on Nov 1, 2010 2:33:18 GMT
OH and let it be known, I much prefer Tom's art to dull dry logic.
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Post by basser on Nov 1, 2010 3:17:12 GMT
Wild Spec: Anthony is not fully human. His hatred/dislike of the etherium is like how some closeted people really hate gays.
Alternately, he was cursed with something-or-other as a child, hates magic because of it, and frequently disappears on quests for a cure. Dude's got Matters To Attend To, after all.
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Post by Casey on Nov 1, 2010 3:40:18 GMT
Jones said in Medium Beginning that Anthony didn't have patience for things that weren't scientific, but I'm not getting where you're getting that he hated the etherium.
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Post by fjodor on Nov 1, 2010 15:27:45 GMT
Maybe this has been speculated before, but if not: Coyote has the ability to raise the dead. The man that Rey possessed was in fact Anthony, who was brought back to life by Coyote, after Surma pleaded for this. This ticked off the Psychopomps in such a way that they refused to escort Surma when she died.
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