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Post by saardvark on Apr 23, 2018 15:39:57 GMT
Mostly a mirror-post about the color of magic. Donlan etheric tech and Anja's mojo is purple. In Torn Sea the seraphs' beacons were purple and their "seals" were blue and white. The ether is white, as was Jeanne and Mort; the reader in the RotD was glowing blue-white. Brinnie's (and Egg's) teleporting is blue. And a dryad's eyes may glow greenish-white and Ysengoyote's fist has a gold and gold-with-white highlights glow but his eyes have always been green and sometimes (before he got Coyote's power, mostly) he has a greenish glow or a pale aura; in the ether he's got gold markings and green eyes. Renard's gold when out of body and his eyes in wolf form are yellow. Of course Antimony's fire is red, and Jen's mojo is red. When Kat used her abilities in tandem with the event it was red tending towards purple. Zeta's eyes are red and her powers are gray/black/dark purple and sometimes purple or white. Red, white, black, and blue are colors associated with Coyote (and in the ether he has stars too) and Coyote can have a reddish aura. So... there appears to be a pattern with "natural" magic falling in the center of the spectrum. White's pure. If I think about it a while I'll probably come up with a theory on the ones that blend from opposite ends of the spectrum or at least something that sounds smart. white light is a combination of all colors... so it makes sense that the ether - source of all magic? - is all of them. It would seem that most etheric beings have control/abilities in one particular part of the ether spectrum. Might be worth some more thinking to see similarities in the magics related to certain colors.... |
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Post by imaginaryfriend on Apr 23, 2018 23:03:30 GMT
Oh yeah, I forgot Kat. Kat's ability has been associated with blue. I think that, plus the stuff from my previous post, suggests that the low end of the spectrum means material ascendancy (for lack of a better term/concept) and the high end is etheric ascendancy. And this wouldn't be visible light but perceptions based on ether in motion (oscillating?) or a side effect of same. Not sure if it was an intentional choice or if it evolved from putting "natural" green in the center, perhaps the middle of the spectrum means balance or no particular ascendancy, I will try think this out further and see if I can make predictions based on this hypothesis if the comic allows, maybe reread Pratchett and see if I can swipe something useful. Etheric tech circuts would be represented by red (ether where it's channeled or conducted or otherwise free-flowing) and blue or purple (where ether is restricted) and that does fit; Diego's code is in red on purple and blue. Interestingly, Bud in the ether's red on blue as well. |
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Jay
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Post by Jay on Apr 25, 2018 13:57:12 GMT
I like the idea of compiling these instances of magic. There's probably some differentiation to be made with "active" magic and "subtle" magic. Like a bright symbol that appears when someone is doing something magic vs. the aura you mentioned with Ysengrin or like the telepathic link we've seen between Zimmy and Gamma. And viewing things in the ether probably throws a whole other wrench into things
One thing I wasn't sure about was your first link with the torn sea. I read those pillars as the ether being sucked from the water by the mini ether stations.
Maybe there's an interesting train of thought outside of the basic symbolism in thinking of it further as a spectrum where the color relates to how much energy is coming off that process.
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Post by OGRuddawg on Apr 29, 2018 19:53:17 GMT
On the first page of The Fangs of Summertime ( www.gunnerkrigg.com/?p=259), Annie mentions that a god emerges from Gillitie Woods. I had always assumed she meant Coyote, but given the events of this current chapter I wonder if she was referring to Ysengrin, not Coyote. In the third panel on pg 259 Ysengrin is in front of Coyote, possibly showing that he was the most important character to emerge from Gillitie Woods that day. I don't know for sure, but it would be an interesting bit of foreshadowing considering just how long it has been since Chapter 14 was drawn. |
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Post by Runningflame on Apr 30, 2018 18:36:02 GMT
On the first page of The Fangs of Summertime ( www.gunnerkrigg.com/?p=259), Annie mentions that a god emerges from Gillitie Woods. I had always assumed she meant Coyote, but given the events of this current chapter I wonder if she was referring to Ysengrin, not Coyote. In the third panel on pg 259 Ysengrin is in front of Coyote, possibly showing that he was the most important character to emerge from Gillitie Woods that day. I don't know for sure, but it would be an interesting bit of foreshadowing considering just how long it has been since Chapter 14 was drawn. I always assumed that the god was Coyote, and that the prominence of Ysengrin was to fool the readers (as probably Annie was fooled) into thinking at first that Ys was the more powerful one because he looked more imposing. |
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Post by imaginaryfriend on May 3, 2018 5:26:02 GMT
Let's speculate, for a moment, that Coyote is really, truly dead. That doesn't necessarily mean he will remain dead. This world is quite literally shaped by belief after all, and Coyote's stories are already out there. He is already a legend, and legend's don't die so easily. There's nothing to say residual belief won't reshape him similar to a certain event in a certain Gaiman story (any of you who have read it will know exactly which one I mean, but I'm trying to avoid spoilers). That said, whether it would be the same Coyote is another matter. Belief is a fickle thing after all. Agreed though I'm not sure the question of it being the same Coyote could ever possibly be addressed since any newly-created Coyote would have the same memories and would act as people believe the previous one should. Questions like that probably helped drive Ysengrin insane. |
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Post by netherdan on May 8, 2018 21:17:02 GMT
Have you ever considered that we, as readers, are as much part of the story as any other character?
By talking about Coyote, speculating about his powers and believing he's not dead we might be affecting their universe's ether and culminating in his return, probably breaking the fourth wall again (insert link to Coyote talking to readers here) until Annie notice he's there staring at nothing talking alone and shouts "HOW THE HELL ARE YOU ALIVE? WHO ARE YOU EVEN TALKING TO?" and he answer "Oh, yes, of course! I'm alive! How could I forget that?"
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Post by jda on May 9, 2018 0:28:40 GMT
Have you ever considered that we, as readers, are as much part of the story as any other character? By talking about Coyote, speculating about his powers and believing he's not dead we might be affecting their universe's ether and culminating in his return, probably breaking the fourth wall again (insert link to Coyote talking to readers here) until Annie notice he's there staring at nothing talking alone and shouts "HOW THE HELL ARE YOU ALIVE? WHO ARE YOU EVEN TALKING TO?" and he answer "Oh, yes, of course! I'm alive! How could I forget that?" Breaking the 4th wall in a 4th wall? That's like, 16 walls! |
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Jay
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Post by Jay on May 11, 2018 13:57:05 GMT
Have you ever considered that we, as readers, are as much part of the story as any other character? By talking about Coyote, speculating about his powers and believing he's not dead we might be affecting their universe's ether and culminating in his return, probably breaking the fourth wall again (insert link to Coyote talking to readers here) until Annie notice he's there staring at nothing talking alone and shouts "HOW THE HELL ARE YOU ALIVE? WHO ARE YOU EVEN TALKING TO?" and he answer "Oh, yes, of course! I'm alive! How could I forget that?" Breaking the 4th wall in a 4th wall? That's like, 16 walls! Yo what's this homestuck nonsense doin here |
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Post by jda on May 11, 2018 15:37:33 GMT
Breaking the 4th wall in a 4th wall? That's like, 16 walls! Yo what's this homestuck nonsense doin here I was, actually, refering to this. |
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Post by madjack on May 15, 2018 7:52:33 GMT
Slightly less out-there prediction than usual: One of the Court's defences or possibly the Omega Device or part thereof will be a time dilation field, and it will be activated at some stage, probably very soon. Update: Now that we've seen the drone go through and back, it probably won't be anything that fancy, calling Annie to either leave or get herself trapped on the other side of the barrier. Any update now, I'm half-expecting this recap to end with "So anyway, that's what's been happening for the past five years" This is the way I'm envisioning this chapter or the one following ending. Now, we wait..
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fjodorii
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Post by fjodorii on May 15, 2018 9:02:30 GMT
What if Coyote is only one shape of a generic trickster-god 'role' that is created in the ether, and now that he is dead, we'll see another shape to fill his place, like Loki? I am still wondering about Brinny's place in the story, and there are very little references to Norse mythology sofar. It would be kinda cool because I think Loki is a darker/more warlike type of trickster god. After current events, people will be more inclined to have a fearful view on the Trickster compared to the joker type that Coyote played so often and Loki would be a perfect fit. Another good candidate would be Gwydion, for the same reasons.
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Post by todd on May 15, 2018 12:43:40 GMT
What if Coyote is only one shape of a generic trickster-god 'role' that is created in the ether, and now that he is dead, we'll see another shape to fill his place, like Loki? I am still wondering about Brinny's place in the story, and there are very little references to Norse mythology sofar. It would be kinda cool because I think Loki is a darker/more warlike type of trickster god. After current events, people will be more inclined to have a fearful view on the Trickster compared to the joker type that Coyote played so often and Loki would be a perfect fit. Another good candidate would be Gwydion, for the same reasons. I suspect that part of the significance of Coyote's role as the Trickster in the story is that he's not just a trickster, he's a canid trickster - tying in with all the other canids in the story (Ysengrin, Reynardine - who was originally in a fox's body but now a white wolf, the bound dogs, Moddey Dhoo - the "black dog" guide from Chapter Sixteen, etc.). |
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fjodorii
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Post by fjodorii on May 16, 2018 7:11:59 GMT
What if Coyote is only one shape of a generic trickster-god 'role' that is created in the ether, and now that he is dead, we'll see another shape to fill his place, like Loki? I am still wondering about Brinny's place in the story, and there are very little references to Norse mythology sofar. It would be kinda cool because I think Loki is a darker/more warlike type of trickster god. After current events, people will be more inclined to have a fearful view on the Trickster compared to the joker type that Coyote played so often and Loki would be a perfect fit. Another good candidate would be Gwydion, for the same reasons. I suspect that part of the significance of Coyote's role as the Trickster in the story is that he's not just a trickster, he's a canid trickster - tying in with all the other canids in the story (Ysengrin, Reynardine - who was originally in a fox's body but now a white wolf, the bound dogs, Moddey Dhoo - the "black dog" guide from Chapter Sixteen, etc.). That is also an interesting thought. It would open the gates for Loki's son Fenrir, quite a formidable dog. (It's wishful thinking from my end, I just like the Norse mythology and would be thrilled to see more of it in the gunnerverse :- ) |
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Post by imaginaryfriend on May 16, 2018 8:29:25 GMT
Well, it IS her fault because she shouldn't have been messing with robot to send shadow back, and she shouldn't have released Jeanne. Then none of all this would have happened but also then it wouldn't have been much of a comic. Some of these events are out of order but here's what I think... If she would have told Robot to return to the Court that would have set things back by at least a year, probably several. Kat might not have had that flash of inspiration or it would have happened later but she would still meet Robot and eventually (see below) she would still be the Court robots' angel. Antimony wouldn't have fallen from the bridge and gotten a blinker stone that way but she probably would have gotten one from Muut via Mort later, so her lessons with Anja would have taken place later therefore the argument with Renard would have happened much later. After that Antimony probably wouldn't have fled the Court to the Wood, though if she did she would have encountered Ysengrin at that point; Antimony might have been mistaken for Surma but even if not being etherically attractive and the protagonist and all she would have survived somehow... but would have gotten a slightly worse impression of him since nobody except Coyote would have been there to save her (Ys did try to attack her when she smacked Coyote's rump at their first meeting after all). Antimony would still have engaged in academic dishonesty and the Court would still have recalled Anthony but without Ys' advice she would have had to work through things on her own and might be farther ahead than she is now. Kat would still have gotten Anja's old workshop so they would have found Diego's "tomb" therefore they would have met the robot king and would have learned about Diego and Jeanne that way. Antimony would still have gotten medium training and may have been generally compliant with things the Court wanted (at least on the surface) and oddly enough might have made more progress on figuring out what the Court is up to since she would have been spending more time exploring there. Antimony wouldn't have a falling out with Red because she wouldn't have met Red. The Microsat 5 chapter would still have happened. George and Smitty would still have hooked up but it would have taken longer. Zeta and Gamma would still have been prominent in Antimony's adventures and the events of Power Station would still have happened. Assuming Antimony would have become the Court medium she would have begun visiting the Wood with George as her protector, as either Antimony trespassing after arguing with Renard or the loss of the sentinel of the Annan would have caused Coyote to renew contact with the Court. The Torn Sea chapter would be largely unchanged. Coyote would still have seen Antimony as something he could use to temper Ysengrin but it would likely be an older Antimony who's father had already returned; Antimony would still have been attracted to the Wood but the context of her visits would be different so Coyote's plan would probably have taken longer to bear fruit. Would this hypothetical Antimony have handled Ys differently? Possibly, as she would have been a more Surma-like Antimony but maybe not, particularly not if Coyote had saved her from Ys. Would she still have gotten the Tooth from Coyote? Probably. He'd still want to impress her with his power and maybe the Tooth has a role to play in his plan. |
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fjodorii
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Post by fjodorii on May 16, 2018 17:41:21 GMT
Correct, when I wrote 'none of all this' I was referring to the current situation in the Court after Ys' attack. If Annie had reported Shadow to a teacher or Eglamore he would probably have been dealt with without robot's walk to the Forest (and he wouldn't have returned with the arm that became Megatree II). And if Jeanne was still at the bottom of the Annan then the attack would not have happened. I am fully aware of the fact that in that case the comic would have been super boring so let's be happy it all happened. :-)
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Post by todd on May 16, 2018 23:55:01 GMT
Correct, when I wrote 'none of all this' I was referring to the current situation in the Court after Ys' attack. If Annie had reported Shadow to a teacher or Eglamore he would probably have been dealt with without robot's walk to the Forest (and he wouldn't have returned with the arm that became Megatree II). And if Jeanne was still at the bottom of the Annan then the attack would not have happened. "he would probably have been dealt with" sounds ominous, especially given the Court's track record. And maybe the Court would have been safe if Jeanne was still down there, but it would have been a safety powered by the continued torment of two people. |
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fjodorii
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Post by fjodorii on May 17, 2018 6:36:22 GMT
Yesterday I spent a couple of hours rereading some of the older chapters (and I was amazed how much I had forgotten). What struck me is that the 'court' is often referred to in such a generic way that I have started wondering if the 'court' - meaning all the structures and buildings - is a sentient and living thing that gives orders to the people living in it? Maybe this has been wildspecced before but i'd be interested in other opinions.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 17, 2018 6:51:59 GMT
I think it points out that leadership of the Court is unclear to most of its inhabitants, unlike with the Forest. If Jones is their respective guardian deity as Coyote claims (at the end of Fire Spike; we also know that the Shadow Men will defer to her authority, see Spring Heeled), then there are signs of her leadership not being absolute, such as Smitty being chosen as Court medium. Amusingly, political backstabbing is not at all foreign to the Forest either, as Ysengrin's coup (which will unquestionably have been planned for by Coyote) has shown.
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Post by pyradonis on May 18, 2018 17:16:13 GMT
I think it points out that leadership of the Court is unclear to most of its inhabitants, unlike with the Forest. If Jones is their respective guardian deity as Coyote claims (at the end of Fire Spike; we also know that the Shadow Men will defer to her authority, see Spring Heeled), then there are signs of her leadership not being absolute, such as Smitty being chosen as Court medium. Amusingly, political backstabbing is not at all foreign to the Forest either, as Ysengrin's coup (which will unquestionably have been planned for by Coyote) has shown. Uh, where does Coyote call Jones a guardian deity in that chapter? Jones says about herself that she only takes on a consultory role in the Court. She's not part of its leadership. |
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Post by Deleted on May 18, 2018 18:12:32 GMT
Coyote questions her self-declared neutrality on this page, and she is the immovable object to his irresistible force, which is parodied (?) by the reader-aware Coyote a few pages prior ("are we getting into this again, Wandering Eye?"). Jones and Coyote are merely two sides of the same desire for self-absorption. If her ultimate aim was observing the world without interfering, as she claimed in The Stone, why would she take any kind of consultory role -- or nudge Smitty towards Parley, for that matter? I would take her no more at her word than I would Coyote, and a comic full of parallelisms such as naming the main characters Annie and Kat could well feature two deities trying to sway Annie to their respectively chosen faction, not only one. (As for the self-detachment of Jones from the rest of the Court -- Coyote is an outsider to the Forest as well, and not actually an animal in the Ether, unlike his Frankish "cousins"; quite possibly, both Court and Forest are seen as useful tools by the surveying and superior deities, which they know better than to take direct command of, lest they end up like Kafka's Poseidon.) The satellite dishes in the Brazilian jungle, and then later Jones looking through the doorway, featured all too prominently for me during Get Lost not to believe that someone in the Court has long-term plans for Annie, even if they didn't act as matchmakers. Besides, Surma "couldn't stand" Jones for some reason -- perhaps a clue that she isn't as benign or trustworthy as Annie takes her to be, when practically every other Etheric being so far (such as the psychopomps -- or Jeanne with her marking cut -- or Renard initially) has tried to use Annie for its own goals? |
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Post by keef on May 18, 2018 23:06:21 GMT
Coyote questions her self-declared neutrality If her ultimate aim was observing the world without interfering, as she claimed in The Stone, why would she take any kind of consultory role -- or nudge Smitty towards Parley, for that matter?
The Smitty + Parley thing is just shipping. It's universal.
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Post by todd on May 25, 2018 1:53:27 GMT
The real reason why the "monster" forest-folk kept attacking Jeanne (and getting slaughtered) wasn't to attack the Court (except at first), but because they saw her as the "ultimate warrior" to test their prowess and skill against.
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Post by Jelly Jellybean on May 25, 2018 11:46:28 GMT
The real reason why the "monster" forest-folk kept attacking Jeanne (and getting slaughtered) wasn't to attack the Court (except at first), but because they saw her as the "ultimate warrior" to test their prowess and skill against. And Ysengrin double dog dared them to try. |
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Post by mturtle7 on May 26, 2018 17:14:36 GMT
I SEE WHAT YOU DID THERE!!!! :-D |
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Post by Runningflame on May 29, 2018 16:46:22 GMT
Talking of Jones... In light of Jones' anti-interventionist stance, probably not. Jones has intervened far too much for me to buy that she has no feelings and no ulterior motives. ... I just ran across this fragment of conversation ( page 573): They're interrupted before things could get more interesting. One possibility is that Renard wants Jones to be involved in something and she's refusing. But another possibility is that he's criticizing her for doing something (perhaps for the Court?) and she's replying that she did it because she wanted to, not because she's "beholden" to anyone. That second possibility dovetails well with the notion that Jones claims neutrality but her actions don't always match her claim. |
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Jay
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Post by Jay on Jun 1, 2018 13:53:40 GMT
As an aside, I think it's a bit funny I had never really heard the word "beholden" used much if at all before this comic – but because of Jones, I seem to see it used on the regular here on the forums. So thank you, Jones, for bringing this archaic word into a whole group's vernacular.
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fjodorii
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Post by fjodorii on Jun 6, 2018 7:34:26 GMT
Jones didn't come across the Court by accident, but she was pointed in its direction when she met the artilleryman (was it him?) after he left the court out of disgust with the Jeanne-plan. And she's not an impartial factor at all, but she's on a mission and it won't be good for the court masters when it unfolds.
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Post by pyradonis on Jun 6, 2018 16:33:10 GMT
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Post by Runningflame on Jun 6, 2018 19:41:21 GMT
I suspect that part of the significance of Coyote's role as the Trickster in the story is that he's not just a trickster, he's a canid trickster - tying in with all the other canids in the story (Ysengrin, Reynardine - who was originally in a fox's body but now a white wolf, the bound dogs, Moddey Dhoo - the "black dog" guide from Chapter Sixteen, etc.). This checks out: (from the TopatoCo description of Coyote!) Ooh, those answers are tantalizing! I'm calling it now: Tony is the Gunner of today's Court. (Perhaps Headmaster Llanwellyn is the Archer, or retired Archer? His daughter is pretty handy with a bow and arrows.) |
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