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Post by l33tninja on Oct 2, 2015 16:33:08 GMT
I'm still not sure if this means Annie is on the mend, but seeing her smile is a good sign. It could just be her nurturing/caring personality but I think I will take it as progress.
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Post by autumnrook on Oct 2, 2015 16:56:09 GMT
I can't help but wonder why Coyote wants Annie to fulfill this promise. Is it simply because it's a promise made to one of the forest denizens, or does he have a deeper interest in it? IIRC, no forest creature has previously returned after being transformed at the Court. It might be that it is just an excuse to get Annie back into the Forest so he can see her. Annie makes him happy. She is the Forest's medium so she should be about her obligations anyway. Speaking of obligations where is Parley? I thought about that, but Annie already has a duty to go to the forest as their medium, so Coyote doesn't need an excuse like that. The Court and Anthony had already said she could go. |
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Post by Refugee on Oct 2, 2015 16:59:36 GMT
Aww, the hair is still rabbit-like. (..rabbit-ty? ...rabbit-ish?) And her shy demeanor is also rabbit-nous. EDIT: Or maybe Bunny-Boy could sense that something isn't right about Annie and was hesitant to come out from behind Smitty. shy demeanor, now. That was part of the deal. I wonder if he can solve the Rubik. I'm intrigued that he looks so young. I wonder how old the rabbit-being was, if she ever had kits? Gonna be interesting experiencing things as a male human. I also like that his favorite toy is one that requires good eye-hand coordination. I wonder if he particularly enjoys having hands, and a voice. |
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Post by Refugee on Oct 2, 2015 17:03:11 GMT
As for Annie, I think she's doing fine. The smile is a real smile; she is pleased to again pick up her responsibilities with the forest. She honestly enjoys being of service here.
If this is the promise spoken of, it is not one she finds a burden.
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Post by csj on Oct 2, 2015 18:29:08 GMT
A recipe for an internet shitstorm. *sigh* I think it's problematic to gender at all until it's brought up again. Or Tom says otherwise, I guess. Being literally forced to undergo ftm in order to enter the court doesn't mean they accept their new gender identity, or that just because the Court genders literally everyone, that we should follow suit. Doesn't mean that it's the case in this particular instance, but given the dubious morality of the transition process between the Forest and Court it would be somewhat problematic to make any assumptions. |
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Post by nero on Oct 2, 2015 19:21:09 GMT
Maybe the ex-rabbit was uneasy at first because Annie looked different physically, and etherically. Parley might already be in the forest with the fairy.
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Post by tootsiren on Oct 2, 2015 19:25:30 GMT
A recipe for an internet shitstorm. *sigh* I think it's problematic to gender at all until it's brought up again. Or Tom says otherwise, I guess. Being literally forced to undergo ftm in order to enter the court doesn't mean they accept their new gender identity, or that just because the Court genders literally everyone, that we should follow suit. Doesn't mean that it's the case in this particular instance, but given the dubious morality of the transition process between the Forest and Court it would be somewhat problematic to make any assumptions. The Court sexes everyone, not genders. If we're going to be internet-tedious about this we should at least do it right. Sex is between your legs, gender is between your ears. |
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Post by Fishy on Oct 2, 2015 20:25:02 GMT
He's almost got the red side done on panel 4. Changes every panel though, so he's obviously using it the whole time they talk. That's kinda nice that he's that into it. I was never good with those things so I don't actually know if he's doing a good job at it.
As for Annie... well, this is nice. Real nice. Wish I had more to say, but more than anything this is just really damn nice to see and I'm going to enjoy it while I can.
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Post by Sky Schemer on Oct 2, 2015 21:05:13 GMT
This page is really sweet, and it also reminded me of this one, which is one of my absolute favorites in the entire story. Edited to add: Also, I live in Oregon, and I needed a page like this today. So thank you, Tom. |
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Post by ctso74 on Oct 2, 2015 21:19:45 GMT
As a proud rabbit owner I am very curious to see what a rabbit-person is like. So far, so cute My ovaries just exploded like a Hollywood car in a California ditch and I spontaneously hugged my cat, who did the "MOOOOOOMMMMMM" stretchy thing, heh. Also going to clone Andrew and ship him with Annie. (Kidding.) Not in the ditch. There's little water to put it out. Leave it burning on the side of the freeway, like everyone else does. Remember, safety first. |
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Post by matoyak on Oct 2, 2015 22:24:49 GMT
Now that it's clear that the promise was to let the rabbit boy visit the forest... It sheds another light on Coyote. THAT was the important promise he was talking about? He must love his forest citizens, even when they choose to abandon the place. Or he has another agenda, but I can't see it at the moment. I can't help but wonder why Coyote wants Annie to fulfill this promise. Is it simply because it's a promise made to one of the forest denizens, or does he have a deeper interest in it? IIRC, no forest creature has previously returned after being transformed at the Court. My guess is his agenda is "How to get Annie to reconnect with herself" so that Annie can amuse him again by being fiery and uncowed. Also, it's easier for her to do her diplomacy thing if she's willing to stand up to the court. And her shy demeanor is also rabbit-nous. EDIT: Or maybe Bunny-Boy could sense that something isn't right about Annie and was hesitant to come out from behind Smitty. shy demeanor, now. That was part of the deal. Depends. Physically male, yes. Potentially mentally female. Bunny might wish to use female or nongendered pronouns. Or the transfer process might adjust the mental view of themselves. Typically people use the pronouns that match their mental view if they feel they have the option without feeling threatened. |
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Post by fwip on Oct 2, 2015 23:10:31 GMT
[awkwardness intensifies] |
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Post by youwiththeface on Oct 2, 2015 23:19:43 GMT
A recipe for an internet shitstorm. *sigh* I think it's problematic to gender at all until it's brought up again. Or Tom says otherwise, I guess. Being literally forced to undergo ftm in order to enter the court doesn't mean they accept their new gender identity, or that just because the Court genders literally everyone, that we should follow suit. Doesn't mean that it's the case in this particular instance, but given the dubious morality of the transition process between the Forest and Court it would be somewhat problematic to make any assumptions. The Court sexes everyone, not genders. If we're going to be internet-tedious about this we should at least do it right. Sex is between your legs, gender is between your ears. What about the pituitary gland? (<- Honest question.) |
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Post by Covalent on Oct 2, 2015 23:35:26 GMT
I swear that kid looks like a girl. I'm not sure how you can all tell it was Rabbit Boy, lmao.
Wait a minute... I thought the rabbit was a girl.
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Post by autumnrook on Oct 2, 2015 23:43:23 GMT
I can't help but wonder why Coyote wants Annie to fulfill this promise. Is it simply because it's a promise made to one of the forest denizens, or does he have a deeper interest in it? IIRC, no forest creature has previously returned after being transformed at the Court. My guess is his agenda is "How to get Annie to reconnect with herself" so that Annie can amuse him again by being fiery and uncowed. Also, it's easier for her to do her diplomacy thing if she's willing to stand up to the court. I think you trust coyote more than I do.  |
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Post by Jelly Jellybean on Oct 3, 2015 0:00:34 GMT
His shy demeanor, now. That was part of the deal. A recipe for an internet shitstorm. *sigh* I think it's problematic to gender at all until it's brought up again. Or Tom says otherwise, I guess. Being literally forced to undergo ftm in order to enter the court doesn't mean they accept their new gender identity, or that just because the Court genders literally everyone, that we should follow suit. Doesn't mean that it's the case in this particular instance, but given the dubious morality of the transition process between the Forest and Court it would be somewhat problematic to make any assumptions. The Court sexes everyone, not genders. If we're going to be internet-tedious about this we should at least do it right. Sex is between your legs, gender is between your ears. My guess is his agenda is "How to get Annie to reconnect with herself" so that Annie can amuse him again by being fiery and uncowed. Also, it's easier for her to do her diplomacy thing if she's willing to stand up to the Depends. Physically male, yes. Potentially mentally female. Bunny might wish to use female or nongendered pronouns. Or the transfer process might adjust the mental view of themselves. Typically people use the pronouns that match their mental view if they feel they have the option without feeling threatened.Oh no, I made a mistake and it grew into a bit of a kerfuffle. I believe Refugee is correct and I should have said "his" because Bunny-Boy hasn't shown a preference on how to be identified. I didn't realize I had made this mistake until I saw the posts. But on a related note, I have been thinking all day about what first year Foley students have to go through. We've already been told that they need to learn to walk. I assume they also have to learn to eat, poop, and sleep like a human. The boys haven't used speech before so they have to learn how to talk. It is amazing that Bunny-Boy has come so far in just one Summer and bit of the school year. They need time to learn what it means to be human, including identifying as a gender, or not, before they can show any preference on how they want to identify themselves and be identified by others. |
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Post by tootsiren on Oct 3, 2015 2:05:39 GMT
The Court sexes everyone, not genders. If we're going to be internet-tedious about this we should at least do it right. Sex is between your legs, gender is between your ears. What about the pituitary gland? (<- Honest question.) The idea is that gender is more of a mental construct than anything to do with a person's biology. Sex is biological, gender is something you decide for yourself. For most people the two coincide, but sometimes they don't, and when they don't the distinction between the two becomes important for a variety of purposes. There are practical, often medical reasons why you might need to know someone's sex. Sex is just an immutable quality that each person has, but gender is the kind of thing where you're supposed to take a person at their word. Unfortunately, misconceptions and the traditional conflation of gender & sex lead to a lot of discrimination against people who have chosen a gender different from their sex, aka trans-people. Unfortunately we live in an imperfect world, so we still get a lot of institutional and personal bias coming from people who don't (or, in my opinion, refuse) to understand the distinction. Embracing the distinction is a small way to give people a basic level of respect. |
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Post by Refugee on Oct 3, 2015 3:38:17 GMT
I swear that kid looks like a girl. I'm not sure how you can all tell it was Rabbit Boy, lmao. Wait a minute... I thought the rabbit was a girl. The rule is, fairies who become human become girls; animals who become human become boys. Mentioned in passing somewhere in the comic. I think Annie specifically questioned the bunny about this, making sure she was okay with the transition. |
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Post by Covalent on Oct 3, 2015 3:50:29 GMT
I swear that kid looks like a girl. I'm not sure how you can all tell it was Rabbit Boy, lmao. Wait a minute... I thought the rabbit was a girl. The rule is, fairies who become human become girls; animals who become human become boys. Mentioned in passing somewhere in the comic. I think Annie specifically questioned the bunny about this, making sure she was okay with the transition. Ah, I see, thanks for the clarification. |
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Pig_catapult
Full Member
Keeper of the Devilkitty
Posts: 171
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Post by Pig_catapult on Oct 3, 2015 4:21:33 GMT
His shy demeanor, now. That was part of the deal. Depends. Physically male, yes. Potentially mentally female. Bunny might wish to use female or nongendered pronouns. Or the transfer process might adjust the mental view of themselves. Typically people use the pronouns that match their mental view if they feel they have the option without feeling threatened. Until such a time as it becomes apparent that BunBun does or does not have a pronoun preference, I propose that we just use the singular "they". To avoid any future kerfuffle. |
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Post by Refugee on Oct 3, 2015 5:36:57 GMT
Depends. Physically male, yes. Potentially mentally female. Bunny might wish to use female or nongendered pronouns. Or the transfer process might adjust the mental view of themselves. Typically people use the pronouns that match their mental view if they feel they have the option without feeling threatened. Until such a time as it becomes apparent that BunBun does or does not have a pronoun preference, I propose that we just use the singular "they". To avoid any future kerfuffle. I propose we use "he", since BunBun understood the male transition was a condition of becoming human. === By the way, from later in the same scene, here's the promise Annie made. |
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Post by speedwell on Oct 3, 2015 6:25:54 GMT
[awkwardness intensifies] Someone let me in on the joke? |
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Post by Daedalus on Oct 3, 2015 9:36:37 GMT
Depends. Physically male, yes. Potentially mentally female. Bunny might wish to use female or nongendered pronouns. Or the transfer process might adjust the mental view of themselves. Typically people use the pronouns that match their mental view if they feel they have the option without feeling threatened. Until such a time as it becomes apparent that BunBun does or does not have a pronoun preference, I propose that we just use the singular "they". To avoid any future kerfuffle. Until the Booplesnoot-Boy declares that he cares about pronouns, and/or we see what pronouns Tom chooses to use, I propose that we, um, stop caring about what we refer to them by on the forum. I understand why it matters to people IRL, but xe has not declared any preference (and is fictional) so it's not hurting anyone if we accidentally refer to her in a way that isn't perfect before Tom chooses to clarify the bunny's feelings. No need for a flame-fest over something like this... (notice my intentional use of every possible gender pronoun, heh)I suspect Tom will give us the answer soon anyway, so this will be a moot point. Personally, I'm going to try to use "they", but I may slip into male pronouns out of habit if I'm not paying attention... |
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Post by Jelly Jellybean on Oct 3, 2015 15:23:22 GMT
"They shy demeanor." That doesn't sound right. What is the gender-neutral singular possessive pronoun equivalent for "they"?
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Post by Phoenix on Oct 3, 2015 15:38:20 GMT
"They shy demeanor." That doesn't sound right. What is the gender-neutral singular possessive pronoun equivalent for "they"? "Their shy demeanor." The singular they pronoun set looks almost exactly like the plural, and is used the same way. "They are a very shy person. Their shyness is legendary; it's a quirk of theirs. To them, the idea of being outgoing is unthinkable; they much prefer to keep to themself." The exception being "themself" rather than "themselves". |
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Post by Daedalus on Oct 3, 2015 18:00:19 GMT
"They shy demeanor." That doesn't sound right. What is the gender-neutral singular possessive pronoun equivalent for "they"? "Their shy demeanor." The singular they pronoun set looks almost exactly like the plural, and is used the same way. "They are a very shy person. Their shyness is legendary; it's a quirk of theirs. To them, the idea of being outgoing is unthinkable; they much prefer to keep to themself." The exception being "themself" rather than "themselves". It causes slight gramatical ambiguity when you say "Their shyness is legendary" - in a vacuum, you don't know if "they" is used as singular or plural. But that's solved with context (shrug) I like the singular they. |
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Post by warrl on Oct 3, 2015 20:32:12 GMT
The idea is that gender is more of a mental construct than anything to do with a person's biology. Sex is biological, gender is something you decide for yourself. For most people the two coincide, but sometimes they don't, and when they don't the distinction between the two becomes important for a variety of purposes. It turns out there are a number of subtle ways in which male and female brains tend to differ in their physical anatomy. None of them appear to be absolute, or have been examined in large-scale studies (that I've seen reference to, and yes I've looked but not necessarily exhaustively and I wouldn't say I'm particularly competent at medical-research archive-searching), but they are there. And most people who are transgender (and have had the appropriate brain-imaging studies done) have brains more characteristic of the sex they self-identify as than of the sex that matches their natural genitalia. Note: there are two extant definitions of "transgender". I prefer the narrower one, where gender identity and physical sex at birth actually conflict - not the wider one where they merely differ, which as far as I can see only serves to enlarge the number of "transgender" people for political purposes, while overstating some people's issues and downplaying others'. I'm gender-neutral and very slightly gender-fluid, NOT transgender; I almost never face the emotional or social issues that transgender people have to deal with every day. It causes slight gramatical ambiguity when you say "Their shyness is legendary" - in a vacuum, you don't know if "they" is used as singular or plural. But that's solved with context (shrug) I like the singular they. I dislike it. However, we do need neutral-gender first-person-singular pronouns, and every alternative I've seen proposed is even worse. |
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Post by Covalent on Oct 3, 2015 22:40:31 GMT
With all due respect, can we not introduce the whole SJW thing into the comic? I'd just like for us all to enjoy it for what it is and just get along.
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Post by sapientcoffee on Oct 4, 2015 3:48:03 GMT
I thought 'SJW' was when all this was turned up to 11. Thread's running about 3. Just people having a relatively friendly chat about such things.
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Post by keef on Oct 4, 2015 9:32:51 GMT
How normal is the word "fave"? I never saw it used before. (And just noticed the chapter icon is in panel four.) It's good to see Annie looking more like herself, with some light in her eyes. More or less, there is still something unsettling about her, I think Bunnyboy noticed it too. At the end of page 1572 he seemed to have followed the cord between flesh and fire, and probably understood what had happened. Someone let me in on the joke? Ovaries. That's a very funny word for little boys. I guess. |
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