artezzatrigger
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Ominous latin chanting
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Post by artezzatrigger on Aug 7, 2015 13:50:36 GMT
I like to imagine his "talking with many people" mostly entails him entering their home, sitting around awkwardly for a few hours, then slowly getting up and leaving to find the next one. No words were spoken. Ah yes, the ancient art of absorbing knowledge via osmosis. |
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Post by Trillium on Aug 7, 2015 14:16:15 GMT
This chapter just gets more and more interesting. Love it!
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Post by scottjm on Aug 7, 2015 14:21:55 GMT
He was literally willing to go to the ends of the earth to try to save is wife, ... We do not know he was traveling to try and revive Surma, he might have been trying to understand why he failed, or he could also have been trying to prevent the same fate from befalling Annie. Actually if he was still going to work to prevent Annie from meeting the same end as Surma that might partly explain why the never told her what was really going on. As if annie is hopefully not going to die the same way then telling her about it only causes her guilt over Surma's death, so holding off on telling her until she needs to know would be to spare annie from that guilt. |
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Post by justcurious on Aug 7, 2015 14:22:16 GMT
He was literally willing to go to the ends of the earth to try to save is wife, yet he chipped away at his daughter's self-esteem at every chance he had... I think this occurred after Surma's death. That drove home to him that he was on the wrong track. He was probably trying to understand things for Antimony's sake. This shows that he can overturn large portions of how he sees things if he has a strong enough motive. |
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Post by Daedalus on Aug 7, 2015 16:24:18 GMT
He was literally willing to go to the ends of the earth to try to save is wife, yet he chipped away at his daughter's self-esteem at every chance he had... I think this occurred after Surma's death. That drove home to him that he was on the wrong track. He was probably trying to understand things for Antimony's sake. This shows that he can overturn large portions of how he sees things if he has a strong enough motive. I agree that this happened after Surma's death, but I interpreted it as him trying to revive her. "Willing to go the ends of the earth to revive his wife" doesn't have the same ring to it... Really though, my only complaint about this page is the coloration. It's just very...drab. And while that definitely fits the tone of the conversation, I do wish we could see some colorful panorama, which could have been stunning with the image of Tony on the cliff. |
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Post by imaginaryfriend on Aug 7, 2015 16:36:42 GMT
The sun never sets on the British etheric empire? Well, GC is supposed to be the prime place for etheric stuff and it is situated and loosely affiliated with GB. Metaphors, how do they work? How about, "The ectoplasm never dries on the British Empire?" |
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Post by nero on Aug 7, 2015 16:38:26 GMT
So how did the Court track him? And how did he know about their presence? Was it when they contacted him about Annie or some deadline to his research?
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Post by Jelly Jellybean on Aug 7, 2015 17:05:47 GMT
I think the second is more likely than the first. Annie has already heard more than Anthony would have willing told her (since he has't willingly told her anything) and it appears she is about to hear more. I think Renard's warning foreshadowed Jeanne trapping Annie. I suppose Anthony may have etheric traps in his house to help counter the Court's surveillance, but Annie's connection to her blinker stone has't been disrupted yet and Parley bipped in and out without incident. |
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Post by jda on Aug 7, 2015 17:31:36 GMT
Maybe a wise old man in a cave who told him it was dangerous to go alone, perhaps. HAHAHAHAHAH, nice one  |
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Sadie
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I eat food and sleep in a horizontal position.
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Post by Sadie on Aug 7, 2015 18:03:27 GMT
Ah, the parallels.
Just as Antimony spent the last three years expanding her horizons in the Court and the Forest -- forming new and unexpected friendships, expanding her understanding of the world, herself, and her abilities, talking to all sorts of creatures -- so, too, did Anthony. (Did he also, in that time, learn to be more emotionally open and expressive? Or did the social distance provided by interacting with strangers away from the all-seeing, all-judging eye of the Court provide him the ladder over that particular wall?)
Interesting how when apart from each other, the two living Carvers expand socially and emotionally like flowers in the sun, while together, they close up tight, tight -- locking in (or out) genuine feelings and bolting their masks firmly in place.
This conversation is starting to sound very much like a lead into Anthony either being blackmailed by the Court or the Court having lashed out against him in some way during his travels. If it's blackmail, that would fit in with a speculation that has hovered since the beginning of this arc; that Anthony was summoned back to the Court to get Antimony under control and away from Forest contamination.
But blackmail over what? The immediate thought is the Bone Lasers incident. If it turns out that Anthony never wanted Annie to find out about it, but the Court knew what happened and used that knowledge as blackmail to get him to come back and bring Annie better in line with their ideals, and he reveals all this with Annie listening I WILL LAUGH SO HARD.
Another possibility is that Anthony thought Zimmy punching him was a Court sanctioned act of punishment/revenge/whatever, but that doesn't as cleanly explain him coming back. ALTERNATIVELY while he was massively injured after the incident, employees of the Court appeared out of nowhere to nurse him back to health and in the process, outlined how his daughter has grown increasingly wild and dangerous under Forest influence and how they may have to start taking more serious measures to contain her** and he forced himself back to 'rehabilitate' her despite the solid conviction that she hates his guts. A conviction likely enforced by the "message from your little girl, mate", which would further enforce the Court's claims of her as dangerous.
** In another thread, I got into a disagreement that was largely me insisting that I really, REALLY didn't want Anthony Carver to have Noble Reasons for his actions. I've been dwelling on why since -- because when I write out the various possible explanations, I'm not against any of them from a story-telling point of view.
I've realized that what I'm ultimately bothered by is the sentiment of "ha! He was a good person and a loving father all along! Don't you feel bad for hating him now?!?" Putting aside the fact that I never hated Anthony (he's a great character) or thought he was a bad person (just a conflicted one performing hurtful actions) -- this arc has featured Antimony as the only person not expressing anger and upset over Anthony's actions. There's been comments that forum members are only upset because beloved Annie got her delicate fee-fees bruised, not because Anthony is doing anything actually wrong/hurtful, IGNORING THE FACT that every single in-comic character even tangentially aware of the situation, from Donald "#1AnthonyFan" Donlan straight on down through freaking Winsbury AGREES that this is a shitty state of affairs and Annie is well within her rights to be upset, hurt, and furious about it. It's sort of like when a friend is a bad relationship either romantic or platonic and everyone else around can see how awful it is, but the friend has got buckets of reasons for why it's all right and none of this is bad, you'll understand.
The closer Anthony leans toward Noble Reasons, the closer it starts to sound like "see, there was never a reason to be mad at him at all, Annie was right to say it's fine" to me. I guess I just really want a chance to see Antimony validated in her anger.
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Post by OGRuddawg on Aug 7, 2015 19:30:03 GMT
The more that is explained, the more questions I have...
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Post by ninjaraven on Aug 7, 2015 20:57:32 GMT
Oooh! Fascinating page. I wonder what he discovered. The title of this thread should have been "Escape the Court's Eye". This explains how Tony suddenly got good enough with the ether to construct the Bone Lasers, which was another long-standing question. I like to imagine his "talking with many people" mostly entails him entering their home, sitting around awkwardly for a few hours, then slowly getting up and leaving to find the next one. No words were spoken. But now we are seeing Tony's compassionate side come into view. Which of course begs the question...why can't he show this compassionate side to his daughter? He was literally willing to go to the ends of the earth to try to save his wife, yet he chipped away at his daughter's self-esteem at every chance he had... After the last couple of pages, I am getting the impression that Tony was strongarmed back into the Court via Annie's cheating after discovering something on his journey that the Court very much wants, but has until now been unable to obtain. I think part of the reason he was so rude to Annie initially was that he was genuinely upset, possibly even livid at the fact that that Court had this up on him, and that he'd had to comply to keep her from being expelled. He loves his daughter (very awkwardly), but he was really, REALLY pissed off at the whole mess her cheating had inadvertently got him into. I wonder if Surma ever cheated.... |
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Post by antiyonder on Aug 7, 2015 21:01:14 GMT
The closer Anthony leans toward Noble Reasons, the closer it starts to sound like "see, there was never a reason to be mad at him at all, Annie was right to say it's fine" to me. I guess I just really want a chance to see Antimony validated in her anger. I'd like to think that the story is aiming more for him having noble reasons, only for the character to learn that the ends don't always justify the means and that you have to sometimes be open with friends and family to get somewhere. |
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Post by hajino on Aug 7, 2015 21:24:04 GMT
** In another thread, I got into a disagreement that was largely me insisting that I really, REALLY didn't want Anthony Carver to have Noble Reasons for his actions. I've been dwelling on why since -- because when I write it the various possible explanations, I'm not against any of them from a story-telling point of view. I've realized that what I'm ultimately bothered by is the sentiment of "ha! He was a good person and a loving father all along! Don't you feel bad for hating him now?!?" Putting aside the fact that I never hated Anthony (he's a great character) or thought he was a bad person (just a conflicted one performing hurtful actions) -- this arc has featured Antimony as the only person not expressing anger and upset over Anthony's actions. There's been comments that forum members are only upset because beloved Annie got her delicate fee-fees bruised, not because Anthony is doing anything actually wrong/hurtful, IGNORING THE FACT that every single in-comic character even tangentially aware of the situation, from Donald "#1AnthonyFan" Donlan straight on down through freaking Winsbury AGREES that this is a shitty state of affairs and Annie is well within her rights to be upset, hurt, and furious about it. It's sort of like when a friend is a bad relationship either romantic or platonic and everyone else around can see how awful it is, but the friend has got buckets of reasons for why it's all right and none of this is bad, you'll understand. The closer Anthony leans toward Noble Reasons, the closer it starts to sound like "see, there was never a reason to be mad at him at all, Annie was right to say it's fine" to me. I guess I just really want a chance to see Antimony validated in her anger. I kinda like Tony, because I can see his potential as a really cool character and I love the idea of the Carver team. And I understand that a lot of posters are upset because of Annies emotional turmoil, but what I don't get is this irrevocable judgement on him. Why could he not become a likable character? - Coyote has some really disturbing notions on how to treat his subjects, especially Ysengrin. Does he seem sorry? Not even close. But posters like him. - Nobody knows how much wildlife and wood creatures Ysengrin killed in one of his fits. - Surma did absolutely nothing to prepare her daughter for anything pertainig her origins, the ether, the Afterlife Guides or the relationship with her father or at least her life before the hospital. - People love Renard and he never showed remorse for killing that man to be with Surma or all the others he killed one after another with his body hopping. That ancient creature that was nearly extinct - Rey ever expressed that he was sorry for taking this life? Still, everyone loves him. He was actually quite cruel in convincing an upset teenager it was all her fault, that her mother died. Not the behavior of a "mature adult"... There are a lot of characters in GC who did despicable or questionable things. I don't think it is realistic to expect from any of the adults perfect behavior, that they won't make mistakes or whatever, have to be perfect parents, read minds and always know when something is wrong. I agree, Tony isn't much of parent material but I actually got the impression he never was much around in the hospital, always working, they probably didn't talk much. He doesn't know Annie very well. Which is bad, because he is not aware, when he hurts her with his behavior. And he still sucks at people skills (his best friend an exception - but hey, if Annie is antisocial to anyone in her class besides Kat, that is okay suddenly). They have an estranged relationship and are both bad at talking to each other. I believe Annies anger is justified, she felt hurt and Tony ran over a couple of walls not noticing. But if your child cheats in a lot of courses that means she failed them and has to repeat the year. This is natural, not cruel. Ending her job after she couldn't keep up with her course load? Why the hell not, she clearly needs more time for school. Afterwards he controlls regularly if she is up to date on school work, since that clearly has been an issue. That too is natural, especially for an academic, who is probably disappointed he can't bond with her over science (which would have come to him the easiest). If you get the info that your child houses a dangerous criminal through a magical bond, you won't care, how many jokes that guy told your daughter and how kind she believes him to be, you want him away from her. That is natural, not cruel. These are all things a parent should do if the kid loses track of its education. He comes back and tries his hand at parenting with the obvious first steps, bringing order back where Annie really span out of control. What I actually perceive as a problem is the total lack of communication about feelings with each other. Tony is a really cold character, not good in any relationship building and for now that is his one big flaw. As others of our favorites go on killing sprees, I don't find that so unforgivable. So I don't like this hate on Tony but I can understand the anger about Annies hurt and how that needs to be resolved as she is harming herself over it. |
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Post by zbeeblebrox on Aug 7, 2015 21:49:01 GMT
Hmm... isn't it rather odd that the bismuth symbol representing the Sun is the very same symbol being used by the Court to represent themselves? Perhaps they had a satellite or two to track Tony himself, or other outsiders that have worked for the Court. Not that odd. It's implying that the Court's eyes are everywhere, which is what Tony is saying on that page. |
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Post by Daedalus on Aug 7, 2015 22:07:28 GMT
- People love Renard and he never showed remorse for killing that man to be with Surma or all the others he killed one after another with his body hopping. ...With all due respect, I am starting to have doubts about whether you have read this comic. He's killed exactly two sentient creatures with his body-hopping, and regrets it "every second of every day". Not to mention an entire chapter devoted to his guilt. He has done every action he is capable of to try to repent and atone for what he's done. There are a lot of other things I would contest if I had time, but I think that's the most egregious. |
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Post by antiyonder on Aug 7, 2015 22:27:21 GMT
- People love Renard and he never showed remorse for killing that man to be with Surma or all the others he killed one after another with his body hopping. ...With all due respect, I am starting to have doubts about whether you have read this comic. He's killed exactly two sentient creatures with his body-hopping, and regrets is "every second of every day". Not to mention an entire chapter devoted to his guilt. He has done every action he is capable of to try to repent and atone for what he's done. There are a lot of other things I would contest if I had time, but I think that's the most egregious. Yeah I went into a more indepth response to hajino, but to make it short, sweet and to the point. Tony doesn't need to be the perfect, wholesome father of the year. His flaws are not why some of us choose to dislike him. The problem is that he has yet to admit that he could have done better with helping Annie and trying to connect with her so that he could help her more effective. Effort is the keyword. Surma while sharing some blame is dead. Criticism isn't only for pointing out a person's failing, but is also to help inform said person on how they can improve one's self. And well, only the parent who still lives can actually benefit from the criticism. Unless of course Surma is brought back to live somehow. Edit: Come to think of it, hasn't Reynard voiced hesitation against doing violence towards Tony if only because he doesn't want to upset Annie? |
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Sadie
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I eat food and sleep in a horizontal position.
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Post by Sadie on Aug 7, 2015 23:12:45 GMT
The closer Anthony leans toward Noble Reasons, the closer it starts to sound like "see, there was never a reason to be mad at him at all, Annie was right to say it's fine" to me. I guess I just really want a chance to see Antimony validated in her anger. I kinda like Tony, because I can see his potential as a really cool character and I love the idea of the Carver team. I like that idea too, honestly. It's just going to take a while for them to actually get there and is going to require a lot of openness and honesty on Anthony's part. Well, he COULD and he CAN. It's just going to take a while. We still barely know him. I think a lot of people aren't willing to give him much slack until he starts being genuine with Annie. To address your specific comparisons: Coyote is one of those very specific character types that people tend to love no matter how objectively awful they are. He is, above everything else, funny and entertaining, and humor covers a lot of character sins. The old general has probably done lots of terrible things, but he's gotten a good chunk of face-time with Annie and we've seen him express considerable regret over lashing out in anger, only to have those feelings and the memory of his wrong actions wiped away like a slate. However, even without the memory of what's he done he believes Annie when she tells him what happened and and reassures her that it is not something he would do purposefully. I've mentioned before that there is indeed a willingness to let Surma off the hook when it comes to her parenting, so I'm not going to argue here too much except to say that at this point, we know even less about her than about Anthony. The entire chapter of Quicksilver centers around Renard feeling remorse for killing that man, in addition to remorse for nearly killing Annie. Additionally, Renard apologized directly to Annie for how cruel he was about Surma's death. I agree with you completely and entirely. But note that the unifying factor of all the characters above (sans Surma, who is a special dead case); they've apologized, admitted to wrong-doings, sought reparations with the person wronged, and had positive, supportive, relationship-affirming interactions with them. Look. if you're very new to the forums and the fandom side of Gunnerkrigg Court in general, I totally understand how unfair it can seem when a character you like is criticized while seemingly other poorly behaved characters are applauded and adored. You gotta realize, though, that ALL of the characters you've listed have received their Jerk of the Week awards courtesy of the GC Forum Fandom. Tony is getting the lions share of them right now because of how long he's been the Front and Center Jerk Guy. The more he opens up in the story and when/if his relationship with Annie starts improving, so will people's attitudes towards him. Thank you, yes! You're not the first person to bring up and lay out these points to highlight how normal and ok they are. It's all willfully disregarding the method or acting like the rationale of the actions makes the method count for less. Though even some people who agree that the method "could've used work", insist that Tony's actions being justified is what matters the most. I don't know what to say that isn't going to be repeating what other posters have said, but in short; no. Agreed and agreed. I don't find him unforgivable either. He's just gotta ask for forgiveness, first and foremost. That lack of communication so massively underpins this entire sour situation... his actions become cruel and harmful because of it. |
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Post by todd on Aug 8, 2015 0:10:33 GMT
Coyote is one of those very specific character types that people tend to love no matter how objectively awful they are. He is, above everything else, funny and entertaining, and humor covers a lot of character sins. I've suspected myself that Coyote is able to "get away with it" despite all the bad things he's done because he so often does it in a humorous fashion. (It reminds me of the passage in the Screwtape Letters by C. S. Lewis where Screwtape argues that the most profitable use of humor for the Devil's cause is to use it to dress up evil acts and make them appear funny.) |
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Post by mordekai on Aug 8, 2015 0:42:39 GMT
After the last couple of pages, I am getting the impression that Tony was strongarmed back into the Court via Annie's cheating after discovering something on his journey that the Court very much wants, but has until now been unable to obtain. I think part of the reason he was so rude to Annie initially was that he was genuinely upset, possibly even livid at the fact that that Court had this up on him, and that he'd had to comply to keep her from being expelled. He loves his daughter (very awkwardly), but he was really, REALLY pissed off at the whole mess her cheating had inadvertently got him into. Not sure about that. The guy seems a competent doctor and scientist, maybe even a genius, but inept when it comes to etherical issues. His attitude, before his wife's death, seemed to be covering his ears and singing "La-la-la-la-la! There is no thing like magic! No, sir!". I mean, "after all those years I still couldn't find a medical explanation to what happened to her"?! WTF?! What does "medical science" know about freaking Fire Elementals? And that from a guy that grew side by side with supernatural creatures, next to a magical forest...He knew about supernatural creatures, he knew about Surma's elemental heritage, his best friend and the wife of the latter built a magical computers to capture a magical fox, he was friends with a nymph when he was younger, he knew that there are two freaking houses full of magical creatures in the Court, and that some humans become animals and go to the Forest sometimes... but he still tried to save Surma's life using medical science only and didn't try to explore supernatural solutions until it was too late. I think Surma knew he couldn't save her. She didn't even bother telling him about their daughter's abilities. And he still seems utterly ignorant about those, by the way. If he bumped into something important in relation to the ether, it was because a third party planted it in his path and pushed him to the right direction. Otherwise, he would have walked by it without noticing it. |
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Post by ctso74 on Aug 8, 2015 2:59:30 GMT
I like to imagine his "talking with many people" mostly entails him entering their home, sitting around awkwardly for a few hours, then slowly getting up and leaving to find the next one. No words were spoken. Ah yes, the ancient art of absorbing knowledge via osmosis. Looking at the comic, I was envisioning him learning through a montage... Dramatic 80's music starts in the background. Anthony sits blank-faced. From across the table, a strange family looks at each other in silence. Anthony rises, without saying a word, as the music starts to rise. He walks through a thunderstorm, to find another uncomfortably odd family. Just as the music peaks, Anthony epically sits again! |
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Post by CoyoteReborn on Aug 8, 2015 3:18:02 GMT
Coyote is one of those very specific character types that people tend to love no matter how objectively awful they are. He is, above everything else, funny and entertaining, and humor covers a lot of character sins. Or at least, I'm not that simple. Instead, I am as changeable as the wind itself, according to my quick mind and quick temper. I'll comfort you with one breath and mock you with the next, and mean it both times. I'll hold Annie close as she sniffles about losing her poor mother, and goad Ysengrin into attacking her just as happily. I'll drive Renard away to meet his doom at the hands of men and his cruel lover, and cry to the moon in despair when he's gone. I'm laughing at my own jokes or serious as an owl depending on when the fancy strikes me, which not even I can predict. I'm always sincere. I'm always manipulative. I'm not a trickster god; I'm The Trickster God. I'm a bundle of contradictions, wrapped up in a coyote-shaped body. A quite handsome one, if I do say so myself. But really, this is all your fault.I'm the only one who has an excuse for it in this comic. I was born this way, a waking dream of the minds of men. You made me capricious, to explain the actions I'm supposed to have done. Is it my fault that this is how you imagined me?
Be careful what you wish for...because it might come true.
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Post by mishyana on Aug 8, 2015 6:12:28 GMT
Beginning to wonder if this chapter is going to serve another purpose of filling us in a bit more on the Court's reason for existence, what exactly they're 'up to', the extent of their reach, etc.
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Post by antiyonder on Aug 8, 2015 8:20:30 GMT
You're not the first person to bring up and lay out these points to highlight how normal and ok they are. It's all willfully disregarding the method or acting like the rationale of the actions makes the method count for less. Though even some people who agree that the method "could've used work", insist that Tony's actions being justified is what matters the most. I don't know what to say that isn't going to be repeating what other posters have said, but in short; no. Yeah, I have to question the sense of near isolation too. I mean it's barely any different that say if cheating on school assignment were to be declared illegal and punishable by literal jail time. Heck, I think there was someone who stated that near isolation is the only way to keep her from cheating. Well if Anthony genuine fears that she hasn't learned her lesson, the only way to guarantee she won't do further cheating is basically to lock her in. |
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Post by hajino on Aug 8, 2015 11:20:39 GMT
- Renard The entire chapter of Quicksilver centers around Renard feeling remorse for killing that man, in addition to remorse for nearly killing Annie. Additionally, Renard apologized directly to Annie for how cruel he was about Surma's death. I agree with you completely and entirely. But note that the unifying factor of all the characters above (sans Surma, who is a special dead case); they've apologized, admitted to wrong-doings, sought reparations with the person wronged, and had positive, supportive, relationship-affirming interactions with them. Look. if you're very new to the forums and the fandom side of Gunnerkrigg Court in general, I totally understand how unfair it can seem when a character you like is criticized while seemingly other poorly behaved characters are applauded and adored. You gotta realize, though, that ALL of the characters you've listed have received their Jerk of the Week awards courtesy of the GC Forum Fandom. Tony is getting the lions share of them right now because of how long he's been the Front and Center Jerk Guy. The more he opens up in the story and when/if his relationship with Annie starts improving, so will people's attitudes towards him. Thank you, yes! You're not the first person to bring up and lay out these points to highlight how normal and ok they are. It's all willfully disregarding the method or acting like the rationale of the actions makes the method count for less. Though even some people who agree that the method "could've used work", insist that Tony's actions being justified is what matters the most. I don't know what to say that isn't going to be repeating what other posters have said, but in short; no. Agreed and agreed. I don't find him unforgivable either. He's just gotta ask for forgiveness, first and foremost. That lack of communication so massively underpins this entire sour situation... his actions become cruel and harmful because of it. Okay, I have to give you the thing about Renards remorse, because Quicksilver mostly slipped my mind. The chapter didn't really leave much with me beside an angry little puppet and that graveyard scene. But in case I got the wrong impression (or missed something) - I never thought it stopped with these two creatures. As he was at the moment of attacking Annie clearly unconcerned to take the life of Surmas child, he probably didn't hesitate much with other creatures (and yeah, he apologized later for it. But only afterwards. When he knew her better. Before then he was prepared to do this). And Sir Eglamore seemed used to fighting him what implied to me that there were regular escape attempts and a lot more body hopping involved. Which is the reason I am so unsatisfied with his regret about that one man and his apology to Annie. Rey caused a lot of damage all around (even if it only was these two lifes, he did a lot of property damage and could have hurt the students and so on), but only decided to be nice to Annie to atone for his actions. About the forgiveness thingy: I probably wasn't that successful in pointing it out the first time, but what I tried to show in my post is that Tony doesn't seem aware that he is hurting Annie, because to a rational outside view his measures seem plausible. I am not disregarding that his rational approach is bad for Annies emotional state, especially as a teenager, I'm just saying that it doesn't occur to a cold, rational character that he is hurting someone with that logic. At least in combination with his atrocious people skills. This is like an cliche-argument between a woman and a man in a relationship where the woman gets all angry, that her partner isn't apologizing or doesn't know, why she is upset and the man is all like "wait, what? what's going on?". The woman being the users in the forum and Tony being the oblivious guy. He will not make amends or beg forgiveness until he actually realizes he is hurting Annie. And as of now she always went along with his decisions, said "okay" and "fine" and cut her hair to a style he is more familiar with. So communication is the real problem and for the lack of his skills at that you can probably fault him, but I don't see him as willfully abusive but rather incompetent in some regards and cannot bring myself to hate him for that. One can work with that. I cannot hate him for not apologizing for something he isn't yet aware he did. But I hope that the things Annie is hearing right now will give her the push to confront her father about a few things. Not because it should be her responsibility to start this discussion but because if we wait for Tony to get the drift we are in for a long wait. So yeah, I'm obviously new to the forum so I missed the backlash for the other characters. Still made me uncomfortable with Tony so I threw something in.  |
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Post by fatexx544 on Aug 8, 2015 12:04:04 GMT
... this raises the question - why is Tony all of a sudden back at the Court?? I think it might be because Annie was made forest medium. The timing isn't too far off (a few months delay, but Anthony was a ways away). And that appointment clearly upset the headmaster. Plus, the first thing Anthony does when he gets back is put Annie under house arrest. What I actually perceive as a problem is the total lack of communication about feelings with each other. Tony is a really cold character, not good in any relationship building and for now that is his one big flaw. As others of our favorites go on killing sprees, I don't find that so unforgivable. I disagree with you here. Communication is everything. And Anthony's methods are ridiculously awful. Let us count his mistakes: 1) He doesn't warn Annie he is coming, so she must deal with this news in public. 2) He doesn't say anything loving, but immediately criticizes her and exposes her greatest failings publicly. 3) He neither inquires into nor shows any interest in the positive things she has been able to achieve. Not to mention the years of abandonment he already put her through (since *before* her mother died). And this heartwarming exposition? Told to a friend, not is own damn daughter! Seriously, Donald gets to know that he loved Annie's mother, but he can't tell Annie that? That is some really bullshit communication skills. Seriously, Anthony deserves the worst father of the year award for so many reasons. |
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Post by imaginaryfriend on Aug 8, 2015 14:21:07 GMT
I wonder if I should remind people that this session of Anthony on Anthony will probably consist mostly of Anthony's good reasons for doing stuff he did and therefore will shine a positive light on the actions of Anthony. Many people in their own minds are righteous heroes and innocent victims in the stories of their own lives; where they blame themselves for things, it's generally for big important things they should not have tried to control or never could have controlled to begin with... He may not be intentionally deceiving his old friend but he does have a motive for keeping Donny's good opinion (does he have any other friends left?) and if Anthony is just ignorant of interpersonal relationships he may be omitting details, possibly key details, because he doesn't think they are important...
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Post by Per on Aug 8, 2015 16:00:08 GMT
I mean, "after all those years I still couldn't find a medical explanation to what happened to her"?! WTF?! What does "medical science" know about freaking Fire Elementals? And that from a guy that grew side by side with supernatural creatures, next to a magical forest... We don't actually know exactly what is encompassed by Tony's "medical explanation", do we? It could include some weird shit, just not the weird shit that might have been of use to him. he was friends with a nymph when he was younger Valkyrie? |
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Post by speedwell on Aug 8, 2015 16:49:44 GMT
You almost sold me. Almost. Boy howdy, do I understand being the chick when my guy is honestly bewildered what I'm sniveling about this time. I am quite convinced that Anthony's motives are pure (pure as an Inquisitor's faith, natch) and he is being less cruel than some unknown threat he perceives (rightly or wrongly) as more cruel. I am aware that he's basically a green man from Mars when it comes to understanding normal human behavior and motivations, so he might not recognize the harm he's doing his daughter, who to make matters worse is trying to be "good" and "reasonable" and to stay on Scary Daddy's good side, to the extent he has one.
But then I realised that when you are dealing with something that causes harm without any capability of understanding or mitigating the harm that they cause, it's very true that you can't blame or hate it... but you DO have to do something about it. Shooting the mad dog, for example, or damming the dangerous river.
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Post by antiyonder on Aug 8, 2015 16:59:24 GMT
You almost sold me. Almost. Boy howdy, do I understand being the chick when my guy is honestly bewildered what I'm sniveling about this time. I am quite convinced that Anthony's motives are pure (pure as an Inquisitor's faith, natch) and he is being less cruel than some unknown threat he perceives (rightly or wrongly) as more cruel. I am aware that he's basically a green man from Mars when it comes to understanding normal human behavior and motivations, so he might not recognize the harm he's doing his daughter, who to make matters worse is trying to be "good" and "reasonable" and to stay on Scary Daddy's good side, to the extent he has one. But then I realised that when you are dealing with something that causes harm without any capability of understanding or mitigating the harm that they cause, it's very true that you can't blame or hate it... but you DO have to do something about it. Shooting the mad dog, for example, or damming the dangerous river. Not to mention that to a point, I think good intentions are arguably more problematic and harmful that deliberate evil intentions. At least with straight up jerks, there's no pretense or misconception, but with those who do wrong, yet meaning well, you have onlookers hesitate to take action since someone like say Anthony isn't being hurtful on purpose. And as I asked before, but received no answer, how often does one have to play the good intentions card when they are fully in the right? |
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