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Post by ryrmyrbyr on May 8, 2015 18:37:41 GMT
Bad card. Scores points with the readers, but is insulting to Annie.
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Sadie
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I eat food and sleep in a horizontal position.
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Post by Sadie on May 8, 2015 18:53:15 GMT
Foot-in-mouth disease is something of an epidemic in the Court, it seems.
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Post by nero on May 8, 2015 18:58:11 GMT
The fact that the boys all signed a card is nice, but I agree that the design and wording is not good. I wonder if the boys know how serious this is. I'm hoping Kat has a 3-step plan for getting Annie out of that room.
Whatever the purpose is, even if its similar to the hospital, I don't think this is the sort of room Annie would choose for herself. I hope Kat can get Annie's spirits up.
Kat's statement about Winsbury is kinda weird. Thinking back though, it could be possible he sorta like Annie back when she flipped him over in gym class. And in the Torn Sea it was nice
seeing Winsbury and Janet stay close to her side. It made me think back to those same aged friends I had in middle school who took care of me as if they were parents, good parents.
Now who drew that smiley face?
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Post by pxc on May 8, 2015 18:59:43 GMT
You have to set the bar pretty low when you're talking about teenage boys. They're just about the least empathetic and most emotionally useless group of punks on the planet. The act of even making a card for a girl and getting your friends to sign it is grounds for merciless scoffing, mocking, and heckling. The fact that Winsbury got that many to do it should speak to his depth of feeling, if you understand the ridiculous nature of the teenage boy. The card was the point, not the snarky message contained.
Edit: I also agree with whoever said there's a lack of understanding on their part. They do likely assume Annie feels poorly treated and is angry about being under her dad's thumb. They do likely think this is a solidarity message. And they likely have no clue how broken Annie is right now. Again. Teenage boys are nonsense and don't understand anything.
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Post by aline on May 8, 2015 19:03:06 GMT
Kat's statement about Winsbury is kinda weird. Thinking back though, it could be possible he sorta like Annie back when she flipped him over in gym class. And in the Torn Sea it was nice seeing Winsbury and Janet stay close to her side. It made me think back to those same aged friends I had in middle school who took care of me as if they were parents, good parents. I don't think Kat's comment was meant to be serious. It was probably just her way of saying that Winsbury really does care, more than his jerk facade would let anyone expect. And maybe she wanted to tell Annie something to smile about. Well, no luck... |
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Post by Knight on May 8, 2015 20:32:44 GMT
It's a good card.
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pigeon
New Member
Peck Peck
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Post by pigeon on May 8, 2015 20:34:55 GMT
I made this into a real card just in case someone needs this for some occasion? There are two sizes because one is more likely to work with a typical 8.5 by 11 printer. Please enjoy! No copyright infringement is intended. This is meant to be a lark. I have attempted to include proper attribution on the card. Please let me know if the attachments need to be removed, and I will do so. Sizes listed in the file name are the size once folded in inches. |
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anisky
Junior Member
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Post by anisky on May 8, 2015 20:53:27 GMT
I see some hope here, in terms of where this is heading a few chapters down the line. I think this card signifies the complete end of Annie's status as an outcast-- or rather, I suppose, as an outcast due to her peers, as she's been "artificially outcasted" by an outside force, her father. Annie's in no place to see or understand that, of course, but once she's out of this very dark place, she has a spot as a Girl Accepted by Her Peers waiting for her.
I think people are right when they say that no matter what Winsbury and the boys wrote in this card, Annie would interpret it as making fun of her. But I also think that people are very right when they say that this card demonstrates how very different her (former) classmates' perception of events is from Annie's own. It didn't occur to any of them that she would think she deserves what she's getting, or that she would be anything other than pissed off about how her father is treating her. That means that none of them sees what's happening to her as something she deserves, or as anything but unfair. But even with that being true, they have to actively care about her to make, sign, and send the card. I think the card is absolutely an attempt to show solidarity, and you don't generally show solidarity with someone who is not in some way "one of us." (Even when people show solidarity with people struggling on the other side of the world, it means they see themselves as sharing values and sharing a common goal for the world.)
Annie's interpreting it as mockery indicates what a very bad place she's in now. But I think that once she rebuilds her self-esteem, she will find herself with an acceptance and belonging that she's never experienced before. Seeing a light, very far off, at the end of the tunnel... just hope it's not an oncoming train. :-P
Edit: Alternately, if one takes the pessimistic view, this could heighten the tragedy: Annie was yanked from her yearmates exactly when they fully accepted her, and as she's now part of Year 9, she'll never get to really know the belonging that she could have had.
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quark
Full Member
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Post by quark on May 8, 2015 21:09:26 GMT
Question, for those familiar with the British education system - how many years of school are standard? Would you need extra school years to qualify for university?
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Post by imaginaryfriend on May 8, 2015 21:18:41 GMT
Also: Now that they've met her dad Antimony has a reason/excuse for acting antisocial when she came to the Court. Maybe her classmates are thinking, "Wow, all things considered Antimony had it pretty well together."
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Post by TBeholder on May 8, 2015 22:19:38 GMT
You have to admit the joke is badly placed. Why? Besides, it's perfectly placed, in case Anthony finds the card. Whether he opens it or not. Even if they didn't mean it to come out that way, it is very insulting. Which is less than obvious, however. And she isn't exactly in a mood to receive comfort via backslapping either way. I guess they are excessively enthusiastic and aren't trained as diplomats, oh wait. Well, at least she realizes they might have reason to make fun of her. I guess that's progress of a kind. She can see that her actions are unreasonable enough to draw ridicule. Now change those actions. Ahh, the hard part. Maybe mister Winsbury, who is admittedly still young and inexperienced, is mislead by his peculiar relationship with young miss Llanwellyn, but if you really want to express sympathy for somebody Well, yes - Willy's attitude improved, with some help from Janet...  But he is still rough around the edges and somewhat clumsy (given how transparently half-assed his attempts to hide said relationship were). The best he can do is "brutal honesty"... which did save lots of trouble for Paz and Matt, didn't it?.. I also am curious as to when he became Annie's fan (which seems to be the case by "The Torn Sea"). I guess, during "Residential"? Speaking of rough and unsubtle? I want to see Parley's visit now.  (E.g., you get married with a foreigner and choose to do that according to a tradition that is strange to people you've lived with, and they'd send you cards reading "Sorry about your wedding... and your husband".) I don't see how this analogy can be valid in any way. Whether in their eies, or from behind the 4th wall they have loads of houses in the court. We've seen where Eglamore lives. You'd think Annie would be sharing a house like that with her dad. It's not like you can't get around the court quickly or anything. The card is not insulting. Annie always acts cool and detached (even though we know it's an act, it's how she comes across). The boys are trying to not embarrass or upset her (or embarrass themselves) by keeping it light. They're also trying to downplay just how awful Anthony is because it's hard to take in and they are all only children after all. The card could have said "gosh golly Annie, we are so so sorry this is happening to you, your dad is so nasty, we love you" and she'd tell Kat it's sarcasm and they hate her. Kat is baffled because Annie's reaction is weird and unhealthy (to think that a cute handmade sympathy card half her classmates signed and asked her best friend to deliver is some kind of attack) (bobbing the whole body up and down in an expression of unreserved agreement) Yes. She feels bad and has pretty much all her skin not just thin, but scrubbed off, just like she was at the start of "Annie in the Forest". Which is one of 2 reasons the current misadventure may work well for her (another is the "professional" challenge of dealing with an entity acting more alien than a golem, living shadow or Coyote). They assume she is feeling mistreated and that she is angry or something close to it. What Annie is really feeling is guilt and shame, and she cut her hair herself. They aren't trying to show pity. They are trying to show solidarity. But you are right that this isn't what Annie needs. What she needs is just basic support. Yup. That's not only "isn't what Annie needs", apparently she either never really needed, or never needed and was capable of accepting at the same time. Which raises other interesting questions. |
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Post by ryrmyrbyr on May 9, 2015 3:57:26 GMT
I'd like to point out we spent a third of a chapter seeing the wonderful dorms that are supposed to teach Year 10 about adult living and now Annie has to live in this sterile cavern. I wonder what that tells you about Anthony's intentions towards Annie. She's not a young adult, she's a specimen!!
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Post by SilverbackRon on May 9, 2015 4:21:06 GMT
We have seen a lot of sides of Annie over the 10+ year run of this comic.
This self-loathing is heartbreaking.
Get through to her Kat! Show her she has friends who really care about her! Even if they don't always hit a perfect score in how they show it.
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Post by zbeeblebrox on May 9, 2015 5:25:10 GMT
I'd like to point out we spent a third of a chapter seeing the wonderful dorms that are supposed to teach Year 10 about adult living and now Annie has to live in this sterile cavern. a room reminiscent of the hospital she stayed in as a child Annie has regressed, due to experiencing the traumatic event of being sent back a grade by her father. You see it behaviorally, in the way she's suspicious of the other kids like she used to be in the early chapters, literally in how she's dressing and wearing her hair, and metaphorically in the way her room looks. I can't say if this was Anthony's intent, but it's a natural result of what happened to her. Although it should be noted that Annie acted much more studious in the earlier chapters, so even if Tony didn't want Annie to regress, it's probably getting him the results he's looking for. |
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lit
Full Member
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Post by lit on May 9, 2015 15:52:03 GMT
I imagine Winsbury and Janet are still together. It's *definitely possible* to have a thing for someone else when you are in a relationship. It doesn't even necessarily have to be an unhealthy thing to acknowledge it. I've had a handful of guys in serious, exclusive relationships be interested in me (to my bemusement). Some of them handled it well, some handled it terribly. I've also been interested in other people while in relationships. Now I'm nonmonogamous, and everything's cool.  |
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Post by Jelly Jellybean on May 9, 2015 16:30:17 GMT
I see no indication that Janet and William have broken up. Just that the other students, particularly Kat, still don't know or believe they are in a relationship. It seems improbably for a teenage couple to keep this secret this well, but the threat from Janet's father is a reasonable explanation for their exceptional behavior. And plot armor, never under estimate the strength of plot armor!
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Post by csj on May 9, 2015 16:50:21 GMT
HOLLOW STATEMENT 1
HOLLOW STATEMENT 2
LOVE,
EVERYONE
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Post by csj on May 9, 2015 16:51:46 GMT
casual reminder that it's not a good idea to remind someone directly of their current situation, let alone two primary sources of personal embarrassment  Teenage boys are nonsense and don't understand anything. #notallboys * trollcoyoteface.jpg* |
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Post by aline on May 9, 2015 19:03:28 GMT
I see no indication that Janet and William have broken up. Just that the other students, particularly Kat, still don't know or believe they are in a relationship. It seems improbably for a teenage couple to keep this secret this well, but the threat from Janet's father is a reasonable explanation for their exceptional behavior. And plot armor, never under estimate the strength of plot armor! They don't believe it. Remember Faraway Morning? Janet and Winsbury told their friends they were going out, but then added so much... hum... color to the story that none of them believed it. I suppose it helps that they're a bit improbable as a couple. It's hard to say if Janet's dad would be a threat to the relationship, my feelings is that they were too embarassed to talk about it at first, and are now hiding it out of habit (and also because no one apparently wants to see it).
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Post by Jelly Jellybean on May 9, 2015 20:26:29 GMT
It's hard to say if Janet's dad would be a threat to the relationship, my feelings is that they were too embarassed to talk about it at first, and are now hiding it out of habit (and also because no one apparently wants to see it). Janet's dad would go crazy if he thought Janet had a relationship with William. And we've seen that the Court won't intervene if a father wants to lock his daughter in a tower... I mean room. So I think Janet and William have plenty of reason to hide their relationship. To me the real question is whether Janet's dad is just being a protective father (no boys ever!), or is there something more? Janet's dad doesn't think anything of the forest or its inhabitants. William is second generation forest folk (not confirmed in comic yet, but his hair goes up!). A boy descended from forest folk dating his daughter seems like the recipe for crazy. |
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Post by kaza999 on May 9, 2015 20:55:13 GMT
alrighty so where the heck are the other court adults?? i've been wondering this since the last chapter and i still want to know! jones, eglamore, and the donlans were absent last chapter, and they still haven't done anything this chapter!
I thought perhaps the adults didn't know about this, but by now a pretty big chunk of time has passed between this chapter and the last--enough time for annie to move into her new room and for kat to visit her at least once, so by now the other adults have to know something is up! so what's the hold up? they can't seriously think this is okay, can they???
(i have this theory that the adults are in on whatever anthony's scheme is, i'm so suspicious of them right now)
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Post by Refugee on May 9, 2015 21:02:50 GMT
alrighty so where the heck are the other court adults?? i've been wondering this since the last chapter and i still want to know! jones, eglamore, and the donlans were absent last chapter, and they still haven't done anything this chapter! Welcome to the forum! Everything related to Annie's cheating has probably been done with the cooperation of the Court administration. As to the Donlans, we may yet hear about them from Kat in upcoming strips. Eglamore has tried to warn Annie, but too little, too late. His hands are tied. Jones also tried to warn her, but she is an observer and adviser. I'll also suggest that Annie feels a deep sense of shame; she doesn't want to hear from the adults she knows; it would be brutally embarrassing. Finally, the adults are incidental to this story. I don't want them to intervene; I want Kat and Annie and their friends, human, robotic, and otherwise, to work through this themselves. |
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Post by kaza999 on May 9, 2015 21:16:57 GMT
thanks the thing that concerns me is the fact that no one told annie they knew she was cheating--everything that anthony did requires a huge amount of paperwork and planning, and the fact that no one thought to inform annie of it is hugely suspect to me. I mean, by the time anthony turned up, the other adults should at least know a little something about annie's circumstances, and if they /didn't,/ that's really weird. i know the adults are incidental, but at the same time, they are massive plot drivers, even if they are offscreen a lot of the time. they have a huge amount of influence over annie and kat, and the fact that they are just letting anthony do what he wants is suspicious to me. also, there are a bunch of little things that add up to me thinking the other adults might be on on what anthony is planning. see, i think that anthony wants to block off/get rid of annie's magic, to prevent her from dying if she has a child, like surma did (i mean, in 'divine,' he did /something/ that suppressed her fire soul, so i think he's trying to do the same thing now). i think at the very least eglamore and the donlans would support this plan under the idea that it would be for 'annie's own good,' and their lack of intervention + the fact that so many of the adults knew/were friends to surma just reinforces this idea i have. |
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Post by ninjaraven on May 9, 2015 21:40:03 GMT
alrighty so where the heck are the other court adults?? i've been wondering this since the last chapter and i still want to know! jones, eglamore, and the donlans were absent last chapter, and they still haven't done anything this chapter! I thought perhaps the adults didn't know about this, but by now a pretty big chunk of time has passed between this chapter and the last--enough time for annie to move into her new room and for kat to visit her at least once, so by now the other adults have to know something is up! so what's the hold up? they can't seriously think this is okay, can they??? (i have this theory that the adults are in on whatever anthony's scheme is, i'm so suspicious of them right now) Well, I don't know how much the adults may or may not be in on the scheme (or schemes, as the case may be), but Tony does not seem like the type who ought to be opposed directly. After all, one key thing about Tony's character given in Microsat 5 is that he will not take action until he's convinced it is the correct course to take. To get Tony to divert from his chosen course is going to take some serious reasoning - new evidence he previously didn't have, other possibilities he hasn't considered. Eglamore is not the guy for such a job, given his personality and past animosity towards Tony. The Donlans may be working on him, but they'll have to be delicate about it - they're going to need an angle Tony hasn't considered. I doubt the headmaster would intervene, as this is pushing Annie where he couldn't get her to go of her own free will (he may be in on this in some way). But given the innate weirdness of the Court itself, many adults may feel no need to intervene, merely seeing it as yet another experiment. _________ ... that room continues to puzzle me, the more I look at it - why is there only a small alcove at the end? can you conjure up other things in this room? why is it so tall, and why is it glassed over?? are those artificial lights up above the glass?? Even if this room is just a random outgrowth of Bismuth, why did bismuth put together such a weird room??? if not, then what purpose was this room originally made to serve? |
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Post by geoduck on May 9, 2015 22:15:40 GMT
... that room continues to puzzle me, the more I look at it - why is there only a small alcove at the end? can you conjure up other things in this room? why is it so tall, and why is it glassed over?? are those artificial lights up above the glass?? Even if this room is just a random outgrowth of Bismuth, why did bismuth put together such a weird room??? if not, then what purpose was this room originally made to serve? I posted this theory over on the speculation thread, but I'll repeat it here, because it sounds good to me: it's a reinforced isolation ward for containing dangerously unstable individuals. All that extra space? It's so if the occupant explodes (literally or metaphorically) there won't be any damage to others. If this is the case, then Anthony housed Annie in it because of her elemental powers, which he is still trying to "cure" in some fashion. |
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Post by youwiththeface on May 9, 2015 22:18:49 GMT
alrighty so where the heck are the other court adults?? i've been wondering this since the last chapter and i still want to know! jones, eglamore, and the donlans were absent last chapter, and they still haven't done anything this chapter! I thought perhaps the adults didn't know about this, but by now a pretty big chunk of time has passed between this chapter and the last--enough time for annie to move into her new room and for kat to visit her at least once, so by now the other adults have to know something is up! so what's the hold up? they can't seriously think this is okay, can they??? (i have this theory that the adults are in on whatever anthony's scheme is, i'm so suspicious of them right now) The only thing I can think is that Anthony's refuge in audacity has shielded him. 'Tony's cut Antimony's hair, made her wear borderline hospital robes, forbid her from going to the forest, took control over Reynardine from her and is making her live in a sensory deprivation tower? Come on, Katerina. We're not that gullible.' |
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Post by Refugee on May 9, 2015 22:36:31 GMT
But given the innate weirdness of the Court itself, many adults may feel no need to intervene, merely seeing it as yet another experiment. I don't think of it as "experiment" so much as "experience". The Court deals with beings who are very much laws unto themselves. I believe Annie was warned, but failed to change her ways. I'll point to Bud and his lovely wife discussing the antics of the children at their oh-so-clever little party. They thought they were doing Bud a favor, getting him out for a little fun too--instead he turned out to be much larger than his pail. Then there's Jack's crazy idea that the Court tracked the students through their food, hahaha! which turned out to be true. The Court knows, and had known for some time. They issued at least two warnings I can think of. Bam! Three strikes and yer out! _________ ... that room continues to puzzle me, the more I look at it - why is there only a small alcove at the end? can you conjure up other things in this room? why is it so tall, and why is it glassed over?? are those artificial lights up above the glass?? Even if this room is just a random outgrowth of Bismuth, why did bismuth put together such a weird room??? if not, then what purpose was this room originally made to serve? It's the door that gets to me. Bare metal, sturdy, yet improvised. Kinda new looking, in fact. No rust or grease stains. But no lock. Weird. I think there's another door, too, hidden in the arch to Annie's chamber. See the first panel, bottom far left. I'm thinking it might be a latch plate for a sliding door. (Or maybe a light switch.) Also note the wainscoting on the left, and that there's no match for it on the right. I think that this is a holding area of some kind. That "foyer", as I've called it, is no such thing. It's a corridor. I bet there are many little rooms--OK, I'll be blunt--many cells along that corridor. They've just been plastered over. (Or, given the nature of the Court, hidden with etheric effects.) I can't make out exactly how all this works, but that's what this originally was.
However, keep in mind that prisons aren't the only institutions with cells. No, not even insane asylums (and yes, geoduck, to me this looks like more like an asylum than a prison). You also see them in monasteries and nunneries. Cells for penitents. Without intending to lessen Anthony's culpability, if any, I believe that much of what we see Annie has done to herself because she truly believes she deserves it. Cutting her hair, refusing makeup, dressing plainly, going into retreat, these are all things someone does to simplify their lives to ponder and meditate. Yes, some of what we see can also be explained in terms of Annie being a victim of abuse. But that is not satisfying to me. I would much rather see Annie voluntarily accepting these constraints because she honestly believes her transgressions deserve no less. Speaking of abuse, isn't this how many abusers (and other criminals) get started, by getting away with the little things? Annie betrayed her friend, even if Kat forgives her for it. She knows she actually did do wrong. She knows she must step back and take stock, or she'll end up as many of us believe her Father to be: interfering with and even abusing the lives of those he cares about BECAUSE he cares about them. She knows how great her sin is, and she refuses to let herself get away with it. |
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Post by kaza999 on May 9, 2015 22:50:40 GMT
Without intending to lessen Anthony's culpability, if any, I believe that much of what we see Annie has done to herself because she truly believes she deserves it. Cutting her hair, refusing makeup, dressing plainly, going into retreat, these are all things someone does to simplify their lives to ponder and meditate. Yes, some of what we see can also be explained in terms of Annie being a victim of abuse. But that is not satisfying to me. I would much rather see Annie voluntarily accepting these constraints because she honestly believes her transgressions deserve no less. Speaking of abuse, isn't this how many abusers (and other criminals) get started, by getting away with the little things? Annie betrayed her friend, even if Kat forgives her for it. She knows she actually did do wrong. She knows she must step back and take stock, or she'll end up as many of us believe her Father to be: interfering with and even abusing the lives of those he cares about BECAUSE he cares about them. She knows how great her sin is, and she refuses to let herself get away with it. how great her sin is??? she, a young girl who has very little emotional (and/or academic) support, cheated on schoolwork!! that is all she did! even if she used kat's work to cheat, again, annie has almost no emotional/academic support from anyone except for kat and renard. a girl raised in the environment that she was (socially isolated, her only contact being her dying mother and numerous supernatural figures) is going to have a skewed moral compass and annie herself does not know how to ask for help--it's one of the basic things about her personality. Anthony, by comparison, is guilty of neglect at the very least, and was pretty much definitely experimenting on her with magic at some point in time. anthony is very clearly an emotionally abusive parent, considering Annie's reactions to him. her behavior is her way of defending herself from him. |
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Post by Refugee on May 9, 2015 23:10:33 GMT
[Annie] knows how great her sin is, and she refuses to let herself get away with it. how great her sin is??? Yes indeed. I'm not going to try to defend Anthony, because I don't know enough about him to either defend or convict. (And much of what he is accused of has not been attested to in-comic.) I do know a lot about Annie though, and I care far more about her self-perception, and her self-respect (as distinguished from self-esteem), than I do for Anthony's opinion, or the Court's. She did cheat, and she traded on Kat's trust of her to cover her own failings. She accepted honors and considerations she did not truly earn. This isn't about being held back a grade, or getting academic demerits, or even having her Father embarrass her in class. This is about her having violated her own personal sense of honesty and integrity. Were she not as good a person as she is, the revelation of her cheating would not have hurt her so badly. It's not that her classmates think she's an idiot, but that she does. She's wrong, of course, in terms of intellect. But she has in fact acted stupidly and against her very high moral standards. I'm wearing a beehive hat right now because I refuse to indict, convict, and execute Anthony for Annie abuse. There are some here who have decided to block me because of that. But the reason I've done so, aside from guesses and inferences being taken as fact, is that to me, the story is much more interesting if I concentrate on Annie's moral failings, on how she perceives them and what she does in response, than I am in yet another Bad Father narrative. |
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Post by youwiththeface on May 10, 2015 0:19:19 GMT
Speaking of abuse, isn't this how many abusers (and other criminals) get started, by getting away with the little things? Annie betrayed her friend, even if Kat forgives her for it. She knows she actually did do wrong. She knows she must step back and take stock, or she'll end up as many of us believe her Father to be: interfering with and even abusing the lives of those he cares about BECAUSE he cares about them. She knows how great her sin is, and she refuses to let herself get away with it. I can think of no correlation between copying off a friend and abusing people or children. As a matter of fact, the only person cheating hurts is you, because you're not coming by the knowledge honestly and it can get you in trouble later because you weren't as prepared as you made it out like you were. The two don't really have anything to do with each other. |
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But he is still rough around the edges and somewhat clumsy (given how transparently half-assed his attempts to hide said relationship were). The best he can do is "brutal honesty"... which did save lots of trouble for Paz and Matt, didn't it?..
