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Post by zbeeblebrox on May 8, 2015 8:43:53 GMT
HAHA best card ever. So perfect
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Post by pxc on May 8, 2015 8:51:16 GMT
What a peculiar room. why is it designed the way it is designed? It looks like some sort of warehouse quickly remade for living. I wonder if there is a bathroom. I've always wondered if the seed bismuth's growth is at least partially uncontrolled. Hence rooms like this that are repurposed but don't really fit any use well. Given the vast and abandoned/unused nature of much of the Court that seems very possible. Maybe stopping the seed bismuth is the reason the court continues its etheric experiments. As I said pages ago while our antagonist was still in the midst of getting continually punched in the face, can we please get on with it? Anthony's terrible. It's established. Let's either find out why, or see how Annie will break free. |
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Post by artezzatrigger on May 8, 2015 9:18:31 GMT
I will say this, though, having once long ago BEEN a teenaged boy: every single one them imagines himself offering her his shoulder to cry on, and having her fall in love with him. They're also very good at putting their feet in their mouth, as this card illustrates. At least Annie trusts Kat enough that she may be able to smooth things over. Its still rather heartbreaking that this was her first thought, though. Makes me wonder if she ever saw signed cards get passed around in the hospital as a child. |
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Post by edzepp on May 8, 2015 9:36:49 GMT
Obviously they're trying to be all cool about it.
Also, we need a real version of that card stat! It would be perfect for all the people who had to cut their hair because their absentee dads are chodes.
Well, it's a niche market.
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Post by keef on May 8, 2015 9:43:02 GMT
It's.. not really a joke. It's snarky, yeah, but it's very clearly expressing sympathy for her. The card they wrote is so condescending and insulting it does not in any way clearly express sympathy to her. It does express something close to sympathy very clearly, and that something is pity. But that's what Annie resents. I'm afraid you are right, although she is so vulnerable now, probably nothing they could send her would help. Everything feels like a confirmation of her stupidity. Makes you wonder how deep she is going to fall, before Tom decides it's the bottom. I don't give a toss about what happens to Anthony, whether he gets punished for his arseholeness or not, but I look forward to see our girl fired up again...  |
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Post by imaginaryfriend on May 8, 2015 9:55:26 GMT
This comic featured a sympathy card that wouldn't make any current girlfriend(s) jealous.
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Post by youwiththeface on May 8, 2015 10:05:00 GMT
It's.. not really a joke. It's snarky, yeah, but it's very clearly expressing sympathy for her. The card they wrote is so condescending and insulting it does not in any way clearly express sympathy to her. It does express something close to sympathy very clearly, and that something is pity. But that's what Annie resents. Maybe mister Winsbury, who is admittedly still young and inexperienced, is mislead by his peculiar relationship with young miss Llanwellyn, but if you really want to express sympathy for somebody, I can give two tips: 1) don't start by insulting her new hairdo, 2) don't continue by insulting her relationship with her father whom she's been missing for years. And if you don't follow these two tips, please follow a third one: 3) for crying out loud try to make up for those insults somehow! She may have decided for the hairdo herself, and appears to be happy about her father returning despite the related events, so if you want to express sympathy, I can immediately imagine a ton of ways better than insulting her in both respects. As said, this may be understandable from William who has long been used to start the conversations with Janet by insulting her. Starting with a simple "We miss you" would have carried the sympathetic message much better, and to continue it with just as simple "we really do" would probably have brought it home completely. And even if Winsbury had an urge to insult Annie's father, he could have done it in a way that does not insult Annie. Say, "We miss you..." [open the card] "although we don't miss your father". This would also have been completely true, because they're getting their fair share of Mr. Carver at school in biology classes, so he literally is not missing from them. And if they really want to tell they're sorry for her, rather than missing her or liking her or wishing her the best, they would have thought it out better if they were "Sorry that you had to move away" or something like that, and maybe to continue it with "but we love your new hair!!" and draw a big fat heart after it. That rather than being sorry for her hair! I understand that people think this is a great card, because it expresses the same feelings that they themselves have been writing on the board for some time now. So, as they consider themselves as sympathetic towards Annie, they think that kind of card is good and sympathetic for Annie too. However, for them, I wish that when they are living hard times and are alone, people they know but don't closely befriend with and no longer meet on a regular basis will send them condescending insults about things they have chosen and that they love, so that personal experience could help them understand what is beyond their intellect. (E.g., you get married with a foreigner and choose to do that according to a tradition that is strange to people you've lived with, and they'd send you cards reading "Sorry about your wedding... and your husband".) I don't know if I see it as condescending or not, but even if it was I still couldn't get that worked up about it, given they're kids and they still have growing up to do and experiences to gain before they understand how to handle things better. It isn't that easy of a situation to handle even if you're a grown up. If you had a friend who had a family member or lover come into their life only to then guide them away from their friends and herald dramatic changes in their hair and wardrobe, that would be a very scary and delicate situation to find yourself in. But if we're going to get worked up about condescension, it would be hilarious to not include Anthony in the discussion too, because while the kids are still young and stupid, what's his excuse? That little card doesn't hold a candle to the condescension he's already doled out in the short time since he's come back, and he's a grown man who doesn't have a lack of experience card to play. Not to mention that the fact that it coming from her dad who's been missing for two years obviously makes it hit harder than if she'd heard anything of the like from a classmate. |
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madragoran
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"If he trully does hurt you, I will rend the flesh from his bones on your word"
Posts: 232
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Post by madragoran on May 8, 2015 10:13:23 GMT
For me it is all a matter of trust. If you know the people and trust them even the crudest attempt on their part is received as it was meant. If you distrust them then everything they do is perceived as critisism and irony and ridicule. And a bit of sarcasm some times works as well as words of sympathy, but it all boils down to knowing and trusting. Annie does neither (she doesn't trust even Kat on some points [ the mask]) for the people around her.
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Post by Jelly Jellybean on May 8, 2015 10:28:34 GMT
The card they wrote is so condescending and insulting it does not in any way clearly express sympathy to her. It does express something close to sympathy very clearly, and that something is pity. But that's what Annie resents. I'm afraid you are right, although she is so vulnerable now, probably nothing they could send her would help. Everything feels like a confirmation of her stupidity. Makes you wonder how deep she is going to fall, before Tom decides it's the bottom. I don't give a toss about what happens to Anthony, whether he gets punished for his arseholeness or not, but I look forward to see our girl fired up again... Initially this page was funny. Then Annie's reaction dropped it back to the bottom again. I guess you can call that a dead cat bounce. |
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Post by Chancellor on May 8, 2015 10:33:31 GMT
Nothing about either of these chapters comes within spitting distance of follow logically. Please, do explain this one to us. With a minimality of rambling all-caps if you would. Man though, the fact this right here is her apparent living quarters, living with a couple of mechanical fools doesn't seem so bad, eh? |
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Post by eightyfour on May 8, 2015 10:48:03 GMT
As much as I've been trying to sympathize with Anthony, that room he's having Annie stay in is dangerously close to child abuse. If he keeps pushing her like this, him losing legal guardianship over Annie in the end would be a real option.
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Post by Rasselas on May 8, 2015 11:45:54 GMT
As much as I've been trying to sympathize with Anthony, that room he's having Annie stay in is dangerously close to child abuse. If he keeps pushing her like this, him losing legal guardianship over Annie in the end would be a real option. It's a strange, huge room but I don't think it's abuse. It's a feature of the Court, lots of unused space. Coupled together with all the rest Annie's been dealing with, it's yet another distant and cold thing for her to shoulder, so I do empathize too. But the first dorms we saw seemed more dangerous to me, especially for such young children. |
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Post by aline on May 8, 2015 12:15:49 GMT
As much as I've been trying to sympathize with Anthony, that room he's having Annie stay in is dangerously close to child abuse. If he keeps pushing her like this, him losing legal guardianship over Annie in the end would be a real option. It's a strange, huge room but I don't think it's abuse. It's a feature of the Court, lots of unused space. Coupled together with all the rest Annie's been dealing with, it's yet another distant and cold thing for her to shoulder, so I do empathize too. But the first dorms we saw seemed more dangerous to me, especially for such young children. Yeah, all dorms so far have been fairly strange. That room is fairly unpractical, and seems to be missing windows, but we've seen worse at the Court. I think this is yet another reminiscence of Annie's childhood in Good Hope ("endless corridors", white, and so on). Whether there is an in-story purpose to this, or this is more a meta-reference introduced by Tom for the sake of atmosphere, hard to say. Combined with the hair, clothing, no-make-up policy and so on, might be the first one. The card has only few words and it's fairly easy to (mis)interpret a short sentence like this. I think the whole point here is the constrat between Annie's perception and Kat's perception. Kat knows that the card is a rather sweet try to express sympathy, from Winsbury no less, and it never occured to her that Annie could see it as anything else. Otherwise she wouldn't have given it to her. Annie tells her they're making fun of her as if she were explaining the order of the universe. She doesn't even consider the possiblity that Kat might be right. She's not even trying to discuss the matter, just putting the card away. That's because in her own eyes, she is publicly and rightfully disgraced. She's in a very dark place right now, all the white notwithstanding. |
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Post by Chancellor on May 8, 2015 12:27:08 GMT
As much as I've been trying to sympathize with Anthony, that room he's having Annie stay in is dangerously close to child abuse. If he keeps pushing her like this, him losing legal guardianship over Annie in the end would be a real option. It's a strange, huge room but I don't think it's abuse. It's a feature of the Court, lots of unused space. Coupled together with all the rest Annie's been dealing with, it's yet another distant and cold thing for her to shoulder, so I do empathize too. But the first dorms we saw seemed more dangerous to me, especially for such young children. Mm, but keep in mind the other dorms have placed a good bit of emphasis on Living with and around other people. Even with the idea that this room was originally meant to house tons of students, it has been intentional design that she's living there alone. The Court has a lot of lonely places, but for the most part its residents havent been made to live "on their own", apparent freedom of movement and visitation notwithstanding. |
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Post by rinabean on May 8, 2015 12:57:40 GMT
It's a strange, huge room but I don't think it's abuse. It's a feature of the Court, lots of unused space. Coupled together with all the rest Annie's been dealing with, it's yet another distant and cold thing for her to shoulder, so I do empathize too. But the first dorms we saw seemed more dangerous to me, especially for such young children. Mm, but keep in mind the other dorms have placed a good bit of emphasis on Living with and around other people. Even with the idea that this room was originally meant to house tons of students, it has been intentional design that she's living there alone. The Court has a lot of lonely places, but for the most part its residents havent been made to live "on their own", apparent freedom of movement and visitation notwithstanding. Right, they have loads of houses in the court. We've seen where Eglamore lives. You'd think Annie would be sharing a house like that with her dad. It's not like you can't get around the court quickly or anything.
The card is not insulting. Annie always acts cool and detached (even though we know it's an act, it's how she comes across). The boys are trying to not embarrass or upset her (or embarrass themselves) by keeping it light. They're also trying to downplay just how awful Anthony is because it's hard to take in and they are all only children after all. The card could have said "gosh golly Annie, we are so so sorry this is happening to you, your dad is so nasty, we love you" and she'd tell Kat it's sarcasm and they hate her. Kat is baffled because Annie's reaction is weird and unhealthy (to think that a cute handmade sympathy card half her classmates signed and asked her best friend to deliver is some kind of attack) |
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Post by sherni on May 8, 2015 13:35:05 GMT
It's a nice card, and really sweet of her classmates. But Winsbury, you might want to make your sympathy a bit clearer. Not everyone understands jerkspeak.
So that's her room. A teeny bit on the sparse side, isn't it? Very reminiscent of the hospital, in fact. Anthony, you really need to get over your fixation with that place...
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brokshi
Full Member
About as furious as my icon appears ecstatic.
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Post by brokshi on May 8, 2015 14:09:43 GMT
I was hoping this wasn't her room. Not to defend Anthony like some people, but because it just seems too terrible. I guess I was wrong.
I'm sad that she's interpreting their sympathy as an insult, but in her state of mind it's hard to avoid.
I hope Kat is keeping the other students updated on Annie's condition, they're probably incredibly worried about her, if this card wasn't enough to prove it.
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Post by Sky Schemer on May 8, 2015 14:17:19 GMT
It's.. not really a joke. It's snarky, yeah, but it's very clearly expressing sympathy for her. The card they wrote is so condescending and insulting it does not in any way clearly express sympathy to her. It does express something close to sympathy very clearly, and that something is pity. But that's what Annie resents. ... She may have decided for the hairdo herself, and appears to be happy about her father returning despite the related events, so if you want to express sympathy, I can immediately imagine a ton of ways better than insulting her in both respects. I think you are close, but not quite correct. The issue is not that the card is condescending or that it expresses pity instead of sympathy, it's that the fundamental assumption behind it is wrong. You get at this in the second sentance which I've quoted there: they assume that their interpretation of the situation is the same as Annie's. They think Annie is being treated unfairly by her dad and that he has forced her, or ar least put her in a situation where she was compelled to, cut her hair. They assume she is feeling mistreated and that she is angry or something close to it. What Annie is really feeling is guilt and shame, and she cut her hair herself. They aren't trying to show pity. They are trying to show solidarity. But you are right that this isn't what Annie needs. What she needs is just basic support. Hence, the card misses its mark and makes Annie feel worse ratehr than better. It's a pretty classic misunderstanding. |
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Post by calpal on May 8, 2015 14:54:29 GMT
... Nobody else is going to comment on Kat's suggestion that Winsbury has a thing for Annie? Despite everything else in this page being said and whatnot, that might be one of the oddest things I've seen Kat say about someone else.
I mean, Kat - or heck, everyone KNOWS by now - that Winsbury and Janet are already a thing, right? Or have relationships changed since the last that we saw those two? Would Winsbury actually develop feelings for Annie to that extent?
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Post by aquamafia on May 8, 2015 15:03:36 GMT
The fact that they made a card at all is extremely sweet. It means Annie's classmates were thinking of her and wanted to do something for her. Admittedly, the phrasing isn't perfect, but it's a thoughtful gesture all the same. (And I personally think the card is awesome.)
Annie really doesn't have the healthiest mindset about this ("I did this and deserve it," "I'm such an idiot.") I hope Kat can help raise Annie's self esteem about all this, considering Anthony was zero help in that department.
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freeman
Full Member
That 70's Coyote!
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Post by freeman on May 8, 2015 15:11:24 GMT
I think the underwater dorms have communal bathroom facilities, she'll probably be using those. Not necessarily, see there's this piece of old technology that is still perfectly serviceable:  I mean, Kat - or heck, everyone KNOWS by now - that Winsbury and Janet are already a thing, right? For real life teens that sort of stuff would be painfully obvious. You'd rumor about it and maybe poke some fun with them, but if they deny, you let it slide for their grace. |
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Post by pxc on May 8, 2015 15:34:30 GMT
Perhaps Janet and Winsbury broke up. They didn't appear to be on speaking terms in the Torn Sea, even though they'd admitted they were together and had no reason to continue to hide anything. Maybe they broke up but haven't told anyone just like they didn't tell anyone for the longest time that they were together. Maybe Winsbury and Jackalope boy will both pursue Annie once this tedious stuff with her dad is over.
Edit: Tom would've had the perfect opportunity to show they were indeed still together at the end of the comic by featuring the two of them making out while Annie tried to congratulate them. It's not proof positive but I imagine Tom didn't throw that nugget from Kat in for no reason. Maybe watching Annie jump into action on the ship was when Winsbury first began taking a shine to her.
Edit 2: On 1506 Janet and Winsbury are standing together. So maybe I'm off. Or maybe they're together but Winsbury has developed a crush. "I met a girl I'd like to know better, but I'm already with someone."
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Post by waldojeffers on May 8, 2015 16:08:51 GMT
I don't think that the light, "joking" nature of the card is offensive. A lot of times when people are trying to deal with a difficult situation or emotion they'll joke about it. It's a less direct way of expressing sympathy, but I don't think this makes the card (or the people who wrote it) unsympathetic to Annie's plight.
The card does make certain assumptions that may or not be true (/that Annie may not believe to be true):
1. That her dad made her cut her hair (We haven't seen yet whether her dad told her to do this or she decided for herself).
2. That her dad is being unfair/mean (This seems to be objectively true, but Annie is probably the one person left who believes that her dad has her best interests at heart).
So although the card DOES express sympathy, Annie is having a hard time seeing it. She also probably thinks they are making fun of her because she didn't always fit in so well with the larger group. But it seems like over the years they have become more and more accepting of Annie and invited her to different group events. Seeing her stand up and fight for them on the cruise ship probably didn't hurt their opinion of her either.
She also probably thinks that they think she's "an idiot" because she cheated so heavily and has to redo a year of school. This is her projecting these feelings onto the card though. It seems to be a sincere attempt to reach out to Annie and show her that she still has friends in her former class.
I can absolutely see why Annie would interpret the card this way, I'm just happy she has Kat there to set her straight.
I'm not even touching the Winsbury thing. I just can't.
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Post by catsneezes on May 8, 2015 16:35:40 GMT
gunnerkrigg.com/?p=1005"Ah...how did that happen? You idiot. He must think you're so stupid." And now, "Kat, they're making fun of me. They think I'm an idiot." If the word "idiot" at any point exits Anthony's mouth I will lose my fucking shit. Seconded. Third'd. That'd be awful. I thought the card was funny; agreeing with those who are pointing out that it shows the gap between Annie and her peers. I'm pretty sure they've accepted her at this point, but she still sees herself as an outsider and assumes they're making fun of her. (also hoping Kat's comment about Winsbury means that Kat still doesn't believe that he's dating Janet because that's hilarious to me. Also hoping that there's gonna be another card from the girls. Or some other gesture from them.) |
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Post by wombat on May 8, 2015 16:36:34 GMT
... Nobody else is going to comment on Kat's suggestion that Winsbury has a thing for Annie? Despite everything else in this page being said and whatnot, that might be one of the oddest things I've seen Kat say about someone else. I mean, Kat - or heck, everyone KNOWS by now - that Winsbury and Janet are already a thing, right? Or have relationships changed since the last that we saw those two? Would Winsbury actually develop feelings for Annie to that extent? I didn't even register that at first, too focused on "And your dad." I was under the impression that people still didn't know about Janet and Winsbury and that her dad would flip if he found out. Maybe if that happens, she could join Annie! Or since her dad's the headmaster, her could force Winsbury to join in Annie's living situation. (This really belongs in Wild Spec, but here it is.) |
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Post by arkadi on May 8, 2015 16:50:30 GMT
And Jesus yeah, it looks like this is where Anthony's keeping her. Eesh. I told you guys: every new page is going to hammer it in a little further. And of course, Annie is already at the point where she doesn't think the others can empathize and feel genuinely sorry for her. Tom could at least have had the decency to apologize beforehand for these chapters he was going to unleash upon us. For me it is all a matter of trust. If you know the people and trust them even the crudest attempt on their part is received as it was meant. If you distrust them then everything they do is perceived as critisism and irony and ridicule. And a bit of sarcasm some times works as well as words of sympathy, but it all boils down to knowing and trusting. Annie does neither (she doesn't trust even Kat on some points [ the mask]) for the people around her. Exactly. And his dad's unrelenting pummeling is only making things worse. Tom is being pretty obvious about that in this page, with Annie's clothes and haircut and the hospital-like furniture: she's regressing fast to the kid she was in Good Hope, losing the ground she had gained in terms of trust and social skills. |
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Post by Daedalus on May 8, 2015 16:59:18 GMT
I wanted to write a long post, but I have no time. So here's the TLDR:
This page breaks my heart, because it shows the extent of the damage that has been done to Annie's psyche. The card is clearly a very kind act, even if it could have been phrased more delicately (it WAS written by Winsbury of all people). Annie's reaction shows how much her self-esteem has been broken, and that is the only logical result of insulting someone in every way possible in front of all of their peers. So honestly I don't even care anymore what Antiony's reason was: there is no reason that I can possibly conceive that requires him to be so cruel to his daughter (minus a deus ex machina like "Cthulu said that unless I broke your spirit to the maximum degree, he'd destroy the world".)
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Post by Sky Schemer on May 8, 2015 17:47:27 GMT
I was under the impression that people still didn't know about Janet and Winsbury and that her dad would flip if he found out. This has been my take on it as well. I think no one takes them seriously when they say they are secretly going out. I really think their plan is to hide their relationship in plain sight. I hope it is, anyway. I can't emphasize enough how much I love Winsbury and Janet. They are my absolute favorite side characters. I really appreciate that Tom chose to do something much different with them than what he originally intended. |
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Shire
Junior Member
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Post by Shire on May 8, 2015 17:47:51 GMT
Ah, Winsbury. Saying what we were all thinking. (minus a deus ex machina like "Cthulu said that unless I broke your spirit to the maximum degree, he'd destroy the world".) That damn Cthulu. He's always stirring things up. |
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Post by youwiththeface on May 8, 2015 17:50:10 GMT
Has Annie ever referred to herself as stupid when her dad wasn't around, or when he wasn't involved in the situation in some manner? The three big moments I'm remembering where she denigrates herself in such a way are this update, this one and this one. It's kind of striking me as a troubling pattern, to be honest. |
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