ryos
Full Member
Posts: 175
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Post by ryos on Apr 21, 2015 4:10:23 GMT
Wow. I just...I mean...wow. Learning how abusive and controlling Anthony is explains SO MUCH about Annie's personality. I have no doubt that he loves her, because if he didn't he wouldn't care to control her. I have no doubt that he thinks he's doing what's best for her. I have a hard time hating him unconditionally, because we have not seen the complete picture. It's easy to see this one chapter and think we understand this man, but we have in actuality seen so little.
But. Whatever his goals or motives actually are, child abuse is always inexcusable. It hurts to watch. And my admiration for Tom as a writer continues to grow.
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Post by OrzBrain on Apr 21, 2015 4:21:28 GMT
Explain why breaking down like a complete fool is worse than what you're doing right now. What happens if you can't get up again after you've broken down? What do you do then? Will others discard you in your weakness, deciding you're not worth the effort? Might some turn and devour you, having waited for the opportunity to present itself, some trying in their own way to break you down? Annie's had so few relationships in her life - each is a precious support pillar whose crumbling she fears terribly; she doesn't dare to test them by putting her full weight on them in dependence. I wonder how the psychopomps have played into Annie's current emotional status - they were the closest things she had to friends while at Good Hope, and she clearly felt betrayed by them with respect to her mother. But. . .but. . . She's enabling her father in whatever nefarious scheme he's got going. She's allowing him to potentially succeed by doing the heavy lifting. If he succeeds it will be her fault for going along with it when she should have known better! Tactically, breaking down like a complete fool is a good move if she can't bring herself to tell Antony to get f****ed. It would leave Reynard a free agent to help her. It will bring attention from interested parties such as Jones and the Donlans to whatever is going on. It might even attract the attention of Coyote, although whether that would be good or bad is hard to say. It will make her father have to justify his actions to others who can question him in ways she apparently can't. And if daddy dearest at some point tries to say she sabotaged something big and important that he worked hard for and sacrificed greatly to bring to fruition she can simply say that he shouldn't have pushed her so hard and caused her to break down. Whereas the way she's doing there's a chance he can just sweep it all under the rug without making any large ripples. |
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Post by youwiththeface on Apr 21, 2015 4:47:38 GMT
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Post by creepingone on Apr 21, 2015 4:49:49 GMT
So far, everything we've seen of Carver's behavior seems typical of an Asperger, and he reminds me a lot of some cases I know. Aspergers have a hard time understanding and dealing with other people; they have a tendency to become control freaks, and all too often they make really poor parents. I know at least two people who were abused by Asperger fathers, in a way that was pretty similar to what Carver is doing to Annie. So yeah. Hi. I have Asperger's and I had to respond because this pissed me off. First, a little vocabulary lesson, Asperger's is the name of a condition, it is not an adjective. The appropriate adjective would be 'autistic', because Aspergers Syndrome is an autistic spectrum disorder. Calling someone an "Asperger" is like calling someone a diabetes, a cancer, or an influenza. Reducing a human being to their illness is seriously offensive, dehumanizing, and disgusting. First, lets talk bad parents, since you imply that being on the spectrum automatically makes you a bad parent. I knew a girl whose non-austic dad raped her from 7 to 13. I knew a guy whose junkie father got him hooked on heroin so that junkie-dad wouldn't have to shoot up alone. Junkie dad was not on the spectrum either. So, I know at least two people who were abused by non autistic parents. Unfortunately, I've known far more than that. I've known people whose parents were in prison for they did. My ex-stepfather was a tyrannical control freak like Carver, and he was not autistic, just worthless redneck pond scum. I also know at least two people who had non-abusive fathers with Aspergers, myself and my father. Believe it or not, us "Asperger" people do have empathy. We're not a bunch of emotionless robots that crush all those who stand in our way. We're people, and some are complete toolbags, but that's not because they have Aspergers, they're just jerks. Honestly, I think people who are prejudice against others make really poor parents, but what do I know, I'm just some emotionless Asperger, right? Anyways, now that that little digression is done, the comic: I don't think it's mind control, and I hope I'm right. Annie's greatest challenge is to see her father for what he is, a deadbeat that is currently unworthy of love or respect. That said, I honestly feel that he can redeem himself, but only if he shows regret for ditching her, and a sincere willingness to make amends and set things right. So far, I've no evidence that he even thinks he did anything wrong, or that he understands the pain he has caused his daughter through his absence. Or that he cares either way. |
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Post by ninjaraven on Apr 21, 2015 7:01:11 GMT
But. . .but. . . She's enabling her father in whatever nefarious scheme he's got going. She's allowing him to potentially succeed by doing the heavy lifting. If he succeeds it will be her fault for going along with it when she should have known better! Tactically, breaking down like a complete fool is a good move if she can't bring herself to tell Antony to get f****ed. It would leave Reynard a free agent to help her. It will bring attention from interested parties such as Jones and the Donlans to whatever is going on. It might even attract the attention of Coyote, although whether that would be good or bad is hard to say. It will make her father have to justify his actions to others who can question him in ways she apparently can't. And if daddy dearest at some point tries to say she sabotaged something big and important that he worked hard for and sacrificed greatly to bring to fruition she can simply say that he shouldn't have pushed her so hard and caused her to break down. Whereas the way she's doing there's a chance he can just sweep it all under the rug without making any large ripples. I doubt Annie is going to tell her father to screw off any time soon, if ever. She LOVES her father. This isn't about tactics! This is about a girl who cares about her friends and family and has suffered the hardship of losing a parent at an early age. Suggesting she should be plotting against her dad at this point is utter crazy talk, even if he is irredeemably evil (and I'm not convinced yet he is). Even if he turns out to be a complete monster, Annie will need to acknowledge that AND know there are more people who are going to be there for her before she'd be willing to even consider cutting her father out of the picture! That said, I think her coping tactics are not going to be enough this time around - they simply aren't going to be enough to hold her emotions in. She now knows why her mom died. She wants to know why her father hasn't called these long years (and is likely terrified of the answer). And she's just been denied contact with several beings who she's started relationships with. Annie's mask is going to shatter under the weight of all that - heck, it's barely being managed as is. At this point, I expect just uttering the word "why?" to her dad will cause it to crumble. Again, I counsel waiting to see what Tony's intentions are regarding his daughter before passing judgement over them - we literally have no idea what the man is up to. Coyote seemed benevolent enough until "the Great Secret" happened, after all - and we've had several chapters devoted to interacting with him. |
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Apr 21, 2015 15:26:57 GMT
under the influence of bone lasers Between "being burned at the skate" and the also-recent "navel vassal" and my all-time favourite in which someone's phone auto-corrected "demise" to "Denise", I'm strangely inclined to believe that this forum spawns wonderful phrasings such as this, whether deliberately or accidentally expressed, by the Coyotean nature of its topic alone. "You must be Acrimony Barber!" |
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Post by antiyonder on Apr 21, 2015 19:29:25 GMT
So far, everything we've seen of Carver's behavior seems typical of an Asperger, and he reminds me a lot of some cases I know. Aspergers have a hard time understanding and dealing with other people; they have a tendency to become control freaks, and all too often they make really poor parents. I know at least two people who were abused by Asperger fathers, in a way that was pretty similar to what Carver is doing to Annie. So yeah. Hi. I have Asperger's and I had to respond because this pissed me off. First, a little vocabulary lesson, Asperger's is the name of a condition, it is not an adjective. The appropriate adjective would be 'autistic', because Aspergers Syndrome is an autistic spectrum disorder. Calling someone an "Asperger" is like calling someone a diabetes, a cancer, or an influenza. Reducing a human being to their illness is seriously offensive, dehumanizing, and disgusting. First, lets talk bad parents, since you imply that being on the spectrum automatically makes you a bad parent. I knew a girl whose non-austic dad raped her from 7 to 13. I knew a guy whose junkie father got him hooked on heroin so that junkie-dad wouldn't have to shoot up alone. Junkie dad was not on the spectrum either. So, I know at least two people who were abused by non autistic parents. Unfortunately, I've known far more than that. I've known people whose parents were in prison for they did. My ex-stepfather was a tyrannical control freak like Carver, and he was not autistic, just worthless redneck pond scum. I also know at least two people who had non-abusive fathers with Aspergers, myself and my father. Believe it or not, us "Asperger" people do have empathy. We're not a bunch of emotionless robots that crush all those who stand in our way. We're people, and some are complete toolbags, but that's not because they have Aspergers, they're just jerks. Honestly, I think people who are prejudice against others make really poor parents, but what do I know, I'm just some emotionless Asperger, right? Also, as someone who is autistic, I'd argue that the thing that makes or break a person whether it's just bad social skills or a disability (mental/emotional) is the presence or lack of criticism. If a person grows up their entire life not being called out on any flaw or given negative (civil mind you) feedback, then how can one hope for the person to improve? I mean a common mistake many people do in fact make is assuming criticism to be something reserved to villains or horrible people as opposed to something that loved ones and friends need to hear. And that's incidentally why I question whether or not Donald has ever criticized Anthony. The latter seems like a person who despite his share of mistake dismisses the notion that he could possibly be wrong in his choice/actions/approach. |
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Post by antiyonder on Apr 22, 2015 1:09:42 GMT
Again, I counsel waiting to see what Tony's intentions are regarding his daughter before passing judgement over them - we literally have no idea what the man is up to. Coyote seemed benevolent enough until "the Great Secret" happened, after all - and we've had several chapters devoted to interacting with him. I get that he may not turn out to be a complete monster or a mustache twirling villain, but a point that I think needs to be considered again is that criticism doesn't always have to be reserved for people you dislike, people who are horrible or people who are a lost cause. Whether Anthony is a good person or not is still opinion, but factually speaking, sometimes the person who needs criticism are the decent & likable individuals. Not because they're horrible, but because they could do better. Otherwise, that would be like saying that Annie is a terrible person because of her cheating. And even though we didn't know why she didn't just ask for help, it didn't stop us from being critical of her. |
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Post by zbeeblebrox on Apr 22, 2015 4:32:38 GMT
I really love the symmetry of Kat repeating herself in the first panel, and Annie repeating herself in the last panel.
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Post by The Anarch on Apr 22, 2015 4:41:13 GMT
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Post by foresterr on Apr 22, 2015 11:23:12 GMT
It makes me think really hard (again) what the **** was the relationship between Surma and Anthony about. Sure as hell wasn't just love. I posit that there's no such thing as "just love" and request to elaborate. I believe there was some kind of deliberate project behind Surma and Anthony's hookup, either coincident or precedent to the typical "two people like each other, they get together, plan their future etc." scenario. Annie's existence is part of that project. In addition, I believe their views on what the project should ultimately lead to diverged at some point, although Surma might have never been aware of that, before she died. |
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Post by arkadi on Apr 23, 2015 20:43:03 GMT
So far, everything we've seen of Carver's behavior seems typical of an Asperger, and he reminds me a lot of some cases I know. Aspergers have a hard time understanding and dealing with other people; they have a tendency to become control freaks, and all too often they make really poor parents. I know at least two people who were abused by Asperger fathers, in a way that was pretty similar to what Carver is doing to Annie. So yeah. Hi. I have Asperger's and I had to respond because this pissed me off. First, a little vocabulary lesson, Asperger's is the name of a condition, it is not an adjective. The appropriate adjective would be 'autistic', because Aspergers Syndrome is an autistic spectrum disorder. Calling someone an "Asperger" is like calling someone a diabetes, a cancer, or an influenza. Reducing a human being to their illness is seriously offensive, dehumanizing, and disgusting. First, lets talk bad parents, since you imply that being on the spectrum automatically makes you a bad parent. I knew a girl whose non-austic dad raped her from 7 to 13. I knew a guy whose junkie father got him hooked on heroin so that junkie-dad wouldn't have to shoot up alone. Junkie dad was not on the spectrum either. So, I know at least two people who were abused by non autistic parents. Unfortunately, I've known far more than that. I've known people whose parents were in prison for they did. My ex-stepfather was a tyrannical control freak like Carver, and he was not autistic, just worthless redneck pond scum. I also know at least two people who had non-abusive fathers with Aspergers, myself and my father. Believe it or not, us "Asperger" people do have empathy. We're not a bunch of emotionless robots that crush all those who stand in our way. We're people, and some are complete toolbags, but that's not because they have Aspergers, they're just jerks. Honestly, I think people who are prejudice against others make really poor parents, but what do I know, I'm just some emotionless Asperger, right? Anyways, now that that little digression is done, the comic: I don't think it's mind control, and I hope I'm right. Annie's greatest challenge is to see her father for what he is, a deadbeat that is currently unworthy of love or respect. That said, I honestly feel that he can redeem himself, but only if he shows regret for ditching her, and a sincere willingness to make amends and set things right. So far, I've no evidence that he even thinks he did anything wrong, or that he understands the pain he has caused his daughter through his absence. Or that he cares either way. OK, first of all: no, I never meant to imply that suffering from Asperger's "automatically" makes you a jerk or a bad parent. As I said, I know people with Asperger's and I'm well aware that most of them are simply struggling with a condition that makes it hard for them to cope with some aspects of life, and when it comes to abuse or bullying they're often the victims, rather than the other way around. Sorry for not making that clear enough. Also, I said that people with Asperger's have a hard time dealing with other people: I did not say that they "lack empathy" or that they're "emotionless robots". Yeah, they've been accused of that, but I'm aware it isn't true; and that's why I didn't say it. However, I do know these two people with Asperger's who were terrible parents, and Annie's dad is uncanningly similar to them, both in a general way and in the specific way he's been mistreating her (as opposed to other terrible parents who are terrible to their kids in different ways, as you pointed out) So yeah, I think it's pretty safe to assume that, besides being a complete jerk to his daughter, Anthony Carver is also somewhere on the autistic spectrum. But no, I didn't mean it like "Of course he's a horrible dad, he's got Asperger's", and again, I'm sorry that it came out that way  As for incorrect use of the term, well, I've seen it used that way in actual medical literature, and heard it from doctors, so I had no reason to think it was inappropriate. Thank you for the clarification. ( Note: sorry for not answering before, but I don't log in every day I only just read your post right now) |
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