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Post by AnUpliftedCuttlefish on Apr 20, 2015 7:35:18 GMT
Her face looks so much like Anthony's in the penultimate frame.  "I have to... I have to... I have work to do." |
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Post by foresterr on Apr 20, 2015 7:38:16 GMT
Was it confirmed anywhere that Annie learned how to put on makeup from her mother? Or just indirect hints? I mean, every time (twice so far) when she was exposed to her father influence, she had no makeup on. First time more or less accidentally, second time he purposefully made her wipe it off before proceeding to break her. It makes me think really hard (again) what the **** was the relationship between Surma and Anthony about. Sure as hell wasn't just love. Also, if Tony has, say, empathy deficiency problems (to avoid saying outright he's a bloody sociopath  ) which seems likely, his ideas of love might be rather different from mundane ones. |
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Post by youwiththeface on Apr 20, 2015 7:40:00 GMT
Maybe this was the real reason she told Rey to be quiet. Maybe he was getting through to her the way Kat did (if only briefly so far) on this page and that was too dangerous for whatever's got a hold of her.
And if there is something ethereal going on, maybe Rey would know what it was and could tell Kat, if he could just be allowed to talk again.
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Anthony
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No, not THAT guy.
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Post by Anthony on Apr 20, 2015 7:41:40 GMT
"I have to... I have to... I have work to do." "I have matters to attend to." |
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karl
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Post by karl on Apr 20, 2015 7:43:22 GMT
This situation calls for a speed-boat with torpedoes and a wolf yelling "Forward". While normally I'd advise for a calm solution in this case a breakdown is not avoidable and the faster it happens the faster the healing can begin. I think we need a grownup here. Like stat. This reminds me very much of a book by Terry Pratchett with Tiffany Aching and the Hiver. The Annie we know has retreated to a corner of her "mind" and is looking out. My worry is that there is no grown up who loves Annie enough to fight for her. Oh the Donlans are very nice and kind people but fighting for Annie? Going against Anthony? I do not see that happening. As for Eglamore he might in principle defend her from visible threats but fight over the right to be her guardian? Nope. I mean anyone fighting for Annie now will be fighting to take her away from Anthony. Want to adopt a 14 year old? I agree. Even if they'd somehow find out about the situation they probably wouldn't fight for Antimony. The best bet for her guardian would be either Jones or Reynardine (out of action at the moment). |
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Post by Whitespace on Apr 20, 2015 7:48:54 GMT
Looks like Annie might not be as far gone as I'd assumed, but that makes the situation with Reynardine sort of confusing. Maybe she hasn't decided what to do?
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Post by Daedalus on Apr 20, 2015 7:49:17 GMT
I think we need a grownup here. Like stat. This reminds me very much of a book by Terry Pratchett with Tiffany Aching and the Hiver. The Annie we know has retreated to a corner of her "mind" and is looking out. My worry is that there is no grown up who loves Annie enough to fight for her. Oh the Donlans are very nice and kind people but fighting for Annie? Going against Anthony? I do not see that happening. As for Eglamore he might in principle defend her from visible threats but fight over the right to be her guardian? Nope. I mean anyone fighting for Annie now will be fighting to take her away from Anthony. Want to adopt a 14 year old? I agree. Even if they'd somehow find out about the situation they probably wouldn't fight for Antimony. The best bet for her guardian would be either Jones or Reynardine (out of action at the moment). I disagree. If they could be convinced of the severity of the situation (ie Anthony hasn't already talked to them and misled them), they'd absolutely fight against Tony for Annie's sake. I think. |
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vakri
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Post by vakri on Apr 20, 2015 7:52:11 GMT
I just had one idea(sorry if someone already wrote it)- what if Divine was somehow foreshadowing? Here are my ideas what each of it's visions meant:
Kamlen and the forest- her memories about forest. We saw her turning from him- like her father now want's her to turn from forest.
Jones- many people said it: get Jones to help. Perhaps Annie tried this, but it didn't really help.
Mask- well, we see it. Best way Annie knows to deal with problems is to keep it to herself
Kat under tree and homework- the talk we just had between them. This conversation started about copying her homework, what was such a problem for Annie that in Divine she decided to hide it with her mask.
Mask taken away from her- we have it now. She lost control for a moment, but she regained her mask and put it back.
Bones- well, quite obvious- reason for this all is her father's return.
And this is where speculation really start.
Punch in the face- perhaps Kat will play Zimmy's part, and either confront Anthony, or just say Annie what she really thinks about him.
Being thrown out of Annies mind- sorry to say that, but looks like Annie will throw Kat away from her life, at least for now.
Jack- looks like we will see Annie going to him for support, or maybe he will offer it himself
Mask broken- apparently, he will cause her to finally lose her control, and she will break down
Fight- and then Annie will be so mad she will throw him against the wall.
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Post by AnUpliftedCuttlefish on Apr 20, 2015 7:53:50 GMT
I think we need a grownup here. Like stat. This reminds me very much of a book by Terry Pratchett with Tiffany Aching and the Hiver. The Annie we know has retreated to a corner of her "mind" and is looking out. My worry is that there is no grown up who loves Annie enough to fight for her. Oh the Donlans are very nice and kind people but fighting for Annie? Going against Anthony? I do not see that happening. As for Eglamore he might in principle defend her from visible threats but fight over the right to be her guardian? Nope. I mean anyone fighting for Annie now will be fighting to take her away from Anthony. Want to adopt a 14 year old? |
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madragoran
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"If he trully does hurt you, I will rend the flesh from his bones on your word"
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Post by madragoran on Apr 20, 2015 7:54:03 GMT
I agree. Even if they'd somehow find out about the situation they probably wouldn't fight for Antimony. The best bet for her guardian would be either Jones or Reynardine (out of action at the moment). I disagree. If they could be convinced of the severity of the situation (ie Anthony hasn't already talked to them and misled them), they'd absolutely fight against Tony for Annie's sake. I think. I may disagree but by Io I sure hope your version happens! Yes, yes. Go on Donlans! |
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Post by Xan on Apr 20, 2015 7:55:04 GMT
Runs in the family, innit?  |
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Post by Daedalus on Apr 20, 2015 7:57:57 GMT
I disagree. If they could be convinced of the severity of the situation (ie Anthony hasn't already talked to them and misled them), they'd absolutely fight against Tony for Annie's sake. I think. I may disagree but by Io I sure hope your version happens! Yes, yes. Go on Donlans! Well we know JimyJims was willing to face down the physical danger of a lunatic wolf-demigod to protect her, on a moment's notice (it's not like he had advance warning of when she'd snap that stick to summon him*). And he hates Tony's guts. So he'd certainly be willing to fight on her behalf, but we don't know if he has any legal authority to do anything... So a likely scenario might be where everyone tries to fight for Annie, but they can't actually make any difference (beyond emotional support, of course, which is major). *Fridge Question: why was he wearing armor at that exact moment, then? It was at least several hours since Annie left him and entered the Forest. Ach you preempted me haha: I think we need a grownup here. Like stat. This reminds me very much of a book by Terry Pratchett with Tiffany Aching and the Hiver. The Annie we know has retreated to a corner of her "mind" and is looking out. My worry is that there is no grown up who loves Annie enough to fight for her. Oh the Donlans are very nice and kind people but fighting for Annie? Going against Anthony? I do not see that happening. As for Eglamore he might in principle defend her from visible threats but fight over the right to be her guardian? Nope. I mean anyone fighting for Annie now will be fighting to take her away from Anthony. Want to adopt a 14 year old? |
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Post by AnUpliftedCuttlefish on Apr 20, 2015 7:58:41 GMT
Runs in the family, innit? I think it's extra disturbing here - if Annie is fighting the urge to break down on her own, to admit this is wrong etc - as it's with Kat, the one person who she's been willing to really show behind the mask in the past. Going all Formal Robot on Kat is unusual for Annie, showing just what a bad state she's in (that, or there's something else forcing Annie to keep the mask on). |
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Post by aline on Apr 20, 2015 7:58:43 GMT
But suddenly I'm beginning to warm up a bit to the idea that a lot of what was going on from Zimmy's perspective in Divine could have been metaphorical, rather than literal. As in the bones may not actually have literally been Anthony's direct doing, and could have been some representation of Annie's conflicted pain regarding her father, once again popping up here to cause her pain. Usually in Gunnerkrigg, it's the metaphore that turns into reality and not the reality that turns out to be a metaphore. Something very specific was going on in Divine, and I think every bit of it was real (to the story). Regarding how Annie is acting now, I already thought this was way too out of character last page. With this page, I'm convinced that something artficial is going on, be it technological or etheric. It's not just a psychological father-daughter relationship problem, not even a screwed up one. |
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madragoran
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"If he trully does hurt you, I will rend the flesh from his bones on your word"
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Post by madragoran on Apr 20, 2015 7:59:35 GMT
I think we need a grownup here. Like stat. This reminds me very much of a book by Terry Pratchett with Tiffany Aching and the Hiver. The Annie we know has retreated to a corner of her "mind" and is looking out. My worry is that there is no grown up who loves Annie enough to fight for her. Oh the Donlans are very nice and kind people but fighting for Annie? Going against Anthony? I do not see that happening. As for Eglamore he might in principle defend her from visible threats but fight over the right to be her guardian? Nope. I mean anyone fighting for Annie now will be fighting to take her away from Anthony. Want to adopt a 14 year old?
*By now they might also object on Rey's behalf, as well.The thing is, if they do not get into it with the resolution to take her in, what are they going to do? Aks Anthony to treat his daughter better? Tell him to stop "strangling" her soul? And then? As long as he "owns" Annie, she can't be safe. She needs an environment where she feels safe enough to expand and assess and grow. |
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Post by fuzzyone on Apr 20, 2015 8:06:18 GMT
"like a complete fool" ...
Breaking down is exactly what Annie needs right now. Only once whatever this is that's been built up has been cleared away can something new, better, and stronger be built. Annie is obviously in a great deal of turmoil right now. There is nothing healthy about her reaction. WHATEVER her father has done... THIS is the result. Be it her choices or his.
THIS is why I said,a few pages back, that Anthony Scares me. Dolores Umbridge was a character to be fought and conquered, acknowledged as such by the characters. Anthony is something else entirely. Annie has no idea that resistance is an option.
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Post by AnUpliftedCuttlefish on Apr 20, 2015 8:07:12 GMT
They might not fight with the aim of being her legal guardian (since they'd likely know that wouldn't fly), but I can still see all 3 at least being willing to go to bat for her if they feel Anthony is wrong*. For Donnie I imagine it'd be him trying to talk sense into Anthony (or understand where this is coming from), for Eglamore it'd probably be shouting at him.
*By now they might also object on Rey's behalf, as well. The thing is, if they do not get into it with the resolution to take her in, what are they going to do? Aks Anthony to treat his daughter better? Tell him to stop "strangling" her soul? And then? As long as he "owns" Annie, she can't be safe. She needs an environment where she feels safe enough to expand and assess and grow. I guess the answer would depend on what Anthony's intentions actually are, and whether they find out if they're bad. Donnie seemed to have an optimistic view of Anthony, despite not having seen him for many years - he understood Annie when she said he was "quiet man", but gave no indication that he thought Anthony was the soul strangling sort. But I guess the answer would be they'd fight with all their might - which is words, pretty much, unless Anthony gives them ground for official challenges - even if it didn't achieve anything, because they wouldn't know it'd do no good. And sometimes you fight anyway, even if it seems pointless. I think Annie is important enough to all of them (and Kat, so more motivation for the Donlans there) that they wouldn't just stand by silently. |
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Post by aline on Apr 20, 2015 8:07:51 GMT
I just had one idea(sorry if someone already wrote it)- what if Divine was somehow foreshadowing? Here are my ideas what each of it's visions meant: Kamlen and the forest- her memories about forest. We saw her turning from him- like her father now want's her to turn from forest. Jones- many people said it: get Jones to help. Perhaps Annie tried this, but it didn't really help. Mask- well, we see it. Best way Annie knows to deal with problems is to keep it to herself Kat under tree and homework- the talk we just had between them. This conversation started about copying her homework, what was such a problem for Annie that in Divine she decided to hide it with her mask. Mask taken away from her- we have it now. She lost control for a moment, but she regained her mask and put it back. Bones- well, quite obvious- reason for this all is her father's return. And this is where speculation really start. Punch in the face- perhaps Kat will play Zimmy's part, and either confront Anthony, or just say Annie what she really thinks about him. Being thrown out of Annies mind- sorry to say that, but looks like Annie will throw Kat away from her life, at least for now. Jack- looks like we will see Annie going to him for support, or maybe he will offer it himself Mask broken- apparently, he will cause her to finally lose her control, and she will break down Fight- and then Annie will be so mad she will throw him against the wall.
Interesting interpretation. However the mask isn't broken by Jack but by Zimmy, when she tells Annie her dad's a jerk. That's the point where she fights back and throws her out.
(Go on, Kat, call him a jerk, ya never know).
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Post by zbeeblebrox on Apr 20, 2015 8:09:11 GMT
Given the fuss that accompanied a mere phone call from her Father, I find the current silence from the other adults rather odd. Explanations are in order. Well...that was fuss we saw. To really jump in with that surprise first page, I imagine there was a bit of chaos among the ranks that had to be kept hidden from us. |
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Post by philman on Apr 20, 2015 8:10:12 GMT
I think we need a grownup here. Like stat. This reminds me very much of a book by Terry Pratchett with Tiffany Aching and the Hiver. The Annie we know has retreated to a corner of her "mind" and is looking out. My worry is that there is no grown up who loves Annie enough to fight for her. Oh the Donlans are very nice and kind people but fighting for Annie? Going against Anthony? I do not see that happening. As for Eglamore he might in principle defend her from visible threats but fight over the right to be her guardian? Nope. I mean anyone fighting for Annie now will be fighting to take her away from Anthony. Want to adopt a 14 year old? I like this. I don't agree that Tony is doing anything etherical or technological to Annie, not yet anyway. This is just simple emotional abuse. In this page Annie knows that what is happening is bad, but is convinced that it is 'right' because she is convinced her father MUST be doing good. There is no need to invoke anything supernatural to explain this, it is just good old depressing psychology. |
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Post by sherni on Apr 20, 2015 8:12:49 GMT
Oh Annie... She doesn't want to do this. Not at all! Yes, I really hate Anthony here. Intentionally or not, he has pushed Annie into this state. No father should do this to a child. No one should do this to a child. Holy crap I think I was right about the mind control. Notice that her hair gets messy and frayed like it did when she was talking to Tony. That is interesting! I was thinking a form of mind control was involved too, but this page actually made me think that might not be the case. I think she does know that what her father is asking of her and the way he is treating her is horribly wrong, but she can't bring herself to say no or disobey him. Obedience to him is too deeply ingrained in her for that. And the subsequent conflict is pushing her towards a breakdown. I actually hope she does break down while Anthony is standing next to her because that might make it easier for Kat and anyone else who cares to reach her. Unless she goes into flaming mode, but I'm sure they have fireproof clothing. |
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Post by carasanathema on Apr 20, 2015 8:20:29 GMT
A few things I'm wondering about:
Is the reason nobody adult is trying to stop Anthony is because the Court ordered them not to? If Anthony is being employed by the Court to research controlling the aether and aetheric beings, that would explain a lot.
Did Anthony talk to Annie during that phone call because he needed to get some sort of lock on her to attack her fire elemental side from the satellite?
Maybe the loss of his hand was a necessary part of his attack, which would explain the request for medical supplies.
Could the most recent imagery of Annie floating in space be less symbolic (of a nervous breakdown) than we thought and actually somehow tied to that previous satellite attack?
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Post by cu on Apr 20, 2015 8:21:24 GMT
Her face looks so much like Anthony's in the penultimate frame. Indeed, she's pulling the Carver smooth operator style like a champ, bangs and all. Da' is so proud, he could blink. |
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Post by AnUpliftedCuttlefish on Apr 20, 2015 8:27:12 GMT
A few things I'm wondering about: Is the reason nobody adult is trying to stop Anthony is because the Court ordered them not to? If Anthony is being employed by the Court to research controlling the aether and aetheric beings, that would explain a lot. Did Anthony talk to Annie during that phone call because he needed to get some sort of lock on her to attack her fire elemental side from the satellite? Maybe the loss of his hand was a necessary part of his attack, which would explain the request for medical supplies. Could the most recent imagery of Annie floating in space be less symbolic, and actually somehow tied to that previous satellite attack? I think the Court would need an even better distraction than Plan Theta to stop certain members of the court from making a scene if they knew what was going to happen. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 20, 2015 8:34:57 GMT
Could the most recent imagery of Annie floating in space be less symbolic than we thought and actually somehow tied to that previous satellite attack? Maybe Anthony's bone lasers are like Coyote's bony fingers, except instead of pulling out memories they pull out the soul... which then gets pulled up to Tony's secret moon base! (I think I have to move to the Wild Theories thread now  ) |
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htown
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Post by htown on Apr 20, 2015 8:35:55 GMT
Head cannon 1:
Tony is asexual.
It explains why he couldnt decide if he liked brinnie.
But then how did Annie happen? I believe fire elementals will asexually reproduce by a certain age if they don't sexually reproduce first. It explains why Annie looks just like surma: there was no genetic mixing- just asexual reproduction.
PS: yes tony loved surma, this does not disprove the theory... Asexual people can still love, just not sexually.
Head cannon 2:
Tony is trying to re-make surma.
So surma died. lots of time passed. Then he called annie, gave her that message, sent that rocket up into space, used it (in the very next chapter!) to try to extract her fire elemental... The court has the technology that they use on fairies and forest animals to put the spirit in a new body- maybe that was his goal with what he was doing to Annie...
Anyway Now that he observably failed, he's back. Plan B. we'll see what it is.
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madragoran
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"If he trully does hurt you, I will rend the flesh from his bones on your word"
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Post by madragoran on Apr 20, 2015 8:40:46 GMT
Head cannon 2: Tony is trying to re-make surma. So surma died. lots of time passed. Then he called annie, gave her that message, sent that rocket up into space, used it (in the very next chapter!) to try to extract her fire elemental... The court has the technology that they use on fairies and forest animals to put the spirit in a new body- maybe that was his goal with what he was doing to Annie... Anyway Now that he observably failed, he's back. Plan B. we'll see what it is. Gaaah! I was trying to avoid thinking about this! I must admit I've pondered about it though. If that is the case i.e. he is trying to recreate Surma this is sick and seven hells kind of wrong. |
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Post by freeformline on Apr 20, 2015 8:42:08 GMT
It occurs to me that Mr. Carver's lost or damaged hand may be linked to the bonelasers/fingers/whatever from Divine. I would guess that the equipment Mr. Donlan sent to him was used to turn his hand into an etheric device useful for manipulating Antimony. That, or he was using his original hand for it (there were five bonelasers, suggesting fingers) and had to replace it after Zimmy's interference.
Note that Mr. Carver's odd hand is his right one, which is not shown on page 1044 when Zimmy demonstrates her talent for percussive conflict resolution. I would think this would be because it was being used in the etheric process that created the bonelaser effect.
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quark
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Post by quark on Apr 20, 2015 8:44:44 GMT
I think we need a grownup here. Like stat. This reminds me very much of a book by Terry Pratchett with Tiffany Aching and the Hiver. The Annie we know has retreated to a corner of her "mind" and is looking out. My worry is that there is no grown up who loves Annie enough to fight for her. Oh the Donlans are very nice and kind people but fighting for Annie? Going against Anthony? I do not see that happening. As for Eglamore he might in principle defend her from visible threats but fight over the right to be her guardian? Nope. I mean anyone fighting for Annie now will be fighting to take her away from Anthony. Want to adopt a 14 year old? I like this. I don't agree that Tony is doing anything etherical or technological to Annie, not yet anyway. This is just simple emotional abuse. In this page Annie knows that what is happening is bad, but is convinced that it is 'right' because she is convinced her father MUST be doing good. There is no need to invoke anything supernatural to explain this, it is just good old depressing psychology. I agree. I was hoping for some etheric shenanigans, because this is much more depressing. The solution for this won't be 'destroy this magic shingamaling' or 'rip this spell thingy apart'. Although I see a lot of traces of Anthony (and maybe Surma) in her, right now: Not only Anthony's very strong mask (wonderfully illustrated by Xan), but also their self-centred way of thinking. Anthony comes by after a few years of abandoning his daughter, and he is disappointed. He is inconvenienced. It's all about him. Annie isn't concerned with her friend's feelings: she is inconvenienced (by Renard making a 'fuss'), she has to maintain control (and is willing to give up her friend's life or at least freedom for it). No, I'm not saying Antimony is as bad as Anthony, but I see parallels. madragoran: I don't think 'having to adopt Annie' is a big problem for either the Donlans or Eglamore. Antimony doesn't really like Eglamore for some reason, but I think he'd do a lot for her (including sitting around in his dragon slayer armour for hours in case something goes wrong, when for years it didn't). He is (and always was) there for her when she needed it. I don't know why any of those haven't warned Antimony, since 'a new biology teacher arrives, and it's our best buddy/worst enemy that we're still pissed at for abandoning his daughter' is kind of big news, and at least one of them would have wanted to bring Annie the good news (Donald) or warn her (Eglamore). So either they didn't know (and Anthony's arrival is only known by the 'court', say, headmaster and administration), or they were forbidden to tell Annie (which I don't think would have stopped Eglamore). |
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karl
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Post by karl on Apr 20, 2015 8:52:02 GMT
I agree. Even if they'd somehow find out about the situation they probably wouldn't fight for Antimony. The best bet for her guardian would be either Jones or Reynardine (out of action at the moment). I disagree. If they could be convinced of the severity of the situation (ie Anthony hasn't already talked to them and misled them), they'd absolutely fight against Tony for Annie's sake. I think. Honestly, I was too focused on the "guardian" and not enough on the "fighting for Antimony" part. Mr. Donlan would probably be the one person Anthony would listen to and Eglamore does not like Anthony. They would likely stand up for Antimony, given that they know (of the actions and the severity) what is going on. However being Antimonys legal guardians? I don't think so. |
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) which seems likely, his ideas of love might be rather different from mundane ones.
)
