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Post by ctso74 on Apr 10, 2015 23:09:16 GMT
Perhaps THIS is the Chapter that should have been named Changes... Or Felicity. |
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Shire
Junior Member
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Post by Shire on Apr 10, 2015 23:12:13 GMT
...
After a chapter like this we better get a really light and fluffy bonus page. I'm talking Mort Fun Time levels of frivolity.
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Post by Señor Goose on Apr 10, 2015 23:16:10 GMT
This is all Boxbot's fault. God he's so terrible. |
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Post by calpal on Apr 10, 2015 23:51:59 GMT
Oh boy, who could've seen what this chapter would turn into after... this? All right, time for my two-cents: First off, Annie's new look is... straight-up disturbing, to the point of almost being terrifying. Her posture is so weak, she clutches the books close to her chest as some defensive mechanism, but that face... exhausted, frightened, lonely. She almost looks more youthful, and that is just straight-up whacked out. So many other people have compared her look to that of back in the Hospital while Surma was cared for, and this page couldn't do a better job of drawing the similarities. Still, I don't believe that Anthony had any immediate role in her cutting her hair, or I should REALLY HOPE THAT HE DIDN'T, BECAUSE THEN THAT WOULD BE THE CREEPIEST SHIT EVER. Really, I'm forced to wait and see what Kat's reaction is going to be (couldn't say "I can't wait" because, well, that would imply being excited at what happens next, and my excitement phase is... definitely over), whether she bawls her eyes out and grieves over Annie's situation, or suddenly turns into a rage over Annie's super-duper-180 character development path in the face of her father - never mind when she tells him about Reynardine's new master. And their talk about her cheating on her homework HAD to come at some point. I just never thought that it would be... at this time. It would be a disservice to say I'm emotionally drained from this chapter, because compared to Annie, I'm been on edge since he first arrived, and now... now I'm livid. |
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Post by youwiththeface on Apr 10, 2015 23:54:36 GMT
Hey look, one more dagger through my heart:  Edit: I give up, this is my new avatar... ....Jones? I just had a thought. We can't know from the comic. But what did Surma and Anthony discuss as to what to do with Antimony after Surma died? If some or all of this was according to Surma's wishes, would that change how we thought about any of it? I'm really not sure, myself. A sobering thought. Moreover, what if the very reason Surma choose Anthony was because she knew she was going to die, and that as Annie grew up, she'd need the stern hand more than the nurturing one? Knew Annie as she knew herself? In any case, your question is a valid one, an important one. How much of the vitriol would go away if it were Surma? If Annie were being punished by a loving, caring parent instead of...whatever Anthony is? My vitriol wouldn't go away, I'd just need enough for two instead of one. Looking back, Annie's hair has always had symbolic ties to her ethereal form. When she goes into the ether, it outgrows the pages. She's turned it into a burning flame in the real world, and when Zimmy went into her hair in her mind-world, it was there she found the fire elemental inside her. I wonder if it would still be long if she used her blinker stone now, the way she still has that cut on her face in the ether? She might even be able to make it grow in real life, if only as an inferno. Heh, did anybody watch Teen Titans, back in the day? Remember the way season four ended? Would anybody else love to see that at the end of this chapter, the way things stand now? |
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Post by kelantar on Apr 11, 2015 0:03:34 GMT
- In his first private conversation with his daughter after two years of absence, his first thing to do was talk about how disappointed he was in her.
See, this one gets me: Tony expressed his disappointment in Annie. That doesn't fit well with a manipulator/someone who doesn't see Annie as an individual. His first words weren't along the lines of "Annie, you horrible little wretch! how could you do this to meeeee" but instead expressing to her his disappointment with the choices she'd made. And you can't make "your actions make me feel..." type sentences without acknowledging that there are two people involved. Really? I feel the exact opposite. If he said it was all about him, that might make Annie confused or suspicious. I think it would be a perfect act of manipulation to express (what is in my opinion) faux-concern before handing down more and more ridiculous punishments until he gets what he wants (Renard). Again, this is how I interpret these events and I could be entirely wrong, but I hardly think the expression of disappointment rules out manipulation in the slightest. Why on earth wouldn't he want her to go to the court? After all, it is a school of science that seems to be extremely advanced. Plus, it's unclear whether he even has to pay for her to attend. Zimmy clearly isn't paying her way, and since the Court produces it's own clothes and food and can cover the cost of the school, they might just recruit kids with special talents free of charge. Oh boy, who could've seen what this chapter would turn into after... this? All right, time for my two-cents: First off, Annie's new look is... straight-up disturbing, to the point of almost being terrifying. Her posture is so weak, she clutches the books close to her chest as some defensive mechanism, but that face... exhausted, frightened, lonely. She almost looks more youthful, and that is just straight-up whacked out. So many other people have compared her look to that of back in the Hospital while Surma was cared for, and this page couldn't do a better job of drawing the similarities. Eek... now I'm looking at that page in a whole different light... what if the reason she made that pose was because she was scared of what her father would do if he found out she broke the glass? And that's why she was willing to risk cutting herself to pick up the pieces, so that he wouldn't find out? [THE_SADDEST_FACE.JPG] |
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Post by imaginaryfriend on Apr 11, 2015 0:09:14 GMT
- In his first private conversation with his daughter after two years of absence, his first thing to do was talk about how disappointed he was in her.
See, this one gets me: Tony expressed his disappointment in Annie. That doesn't fit well with a manipulator/someone who doesn't see Annie as an individual. His first words weren't along the lines of "Annie, you horrible little wretch! how could you do this to meeeee" but instead expressing to her his disappointment with the choices she'd made. And you can't make "your actions make me feel..." type sentences without acknowledging that there are two people involved. I have trouble seeing Tony as a control freak/manipulator because if he is one, I don't know how Annie would've made it to the Court in the first place. He is her father and, upon her mother's death, had sole custody of her. If Tony really needed to control Annie the way people seem to think he does, she never would have even SEEN Gunnerkrig Court. Is he making a hash job out of his relationship with Annie? Absolutely. But then again, this seems to be a part of his character (Microsat 5). Perhaps he and Annie can help each other in terms of their character flaws. I think Tony is cracking down super hard on Annie, sure - but I don't think he intends this to be a permanent state of affairs. However, he has felt it was serious enough to warrant his personal involvement. This Terrible Thing for Annie is TEMPORARY - it's only until she demonstrates she can do the work she has previously been skimping on. If she can do that, I expect he'll ease up on her. And if Kat can demonstrate that she did not let Annie cheat off her and will not help Annie cheat, then Anthony will probably let them hang out together - maybe even get Kat to help tutor Annie. I still get the feeling that this is, from Tony's perspective, an Intervention. I wonder if Tony is going to find this change as ridiculous as the makeup... Welcome to the forum! I don't think Mr. Carver knows enough about people to be *consciously* a manipulator but I do think he is controlling. And yes, this current state of affairs is probably temporary in his mind... because once Antimony is back on what he considers the correct track that means he's free to depart again. |
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Post by calpal on Apr 11, 2015 0:42:19 GMT
Why on earth wouldn't he want her to go to the court? After all, it is a school of science that seems to be extremely advanced. Plus, it's unclear whether he even has to pay for her to attend. Zimmy clearly isn't paying her way, and since the Court produces it's own clothes and food and can cover the cost of the school, they might just recruit kids with special talents free of charge. I've theorized in my mind for a bit that maybe, just maybe, Anthony is an old-world kind of man, not a Gunnerkrigg citizen. Some things about Gunnerkrigg Court tells me that people are far more lax regarding their morality - between the killing and cover-up of Jeanne's death, the non-chalant attitude the guards have when pursuing Jack in the halls, the massive surveillance program that is radically 1984-esque (or worse!), and (dare I say) the fact that the Donlan teachers themselves never were aware of (or opted to ignore) Annie's academic track-record for copying homework... Reynard says as much about the Court moral compass as being far more laxing than the outside world, though I'm inclined to believe that's for the worse... the far worse, if my thinking is right. It's no secret that Surma worked for the Court in the past. Whether Anthony did as well, I'm not sure we can really say, but maybe - just maybe - Surma indulged on whatever crazy-juice allows the Court to operate the way it does, and Anthony did not like that one bit. Perhaps he vowed to raise their daughter outside of the Court and away from the craziness that laid within, but as we all know, Surma - NOT Anthony - wished for her to go there. And therein lies the rub: while Anthony may be willing to work with the Court, he may have despised the fact that his daughter was allowed to be raised in such a moral cesspit. It's hard to imagine what Anthony's truly thinking, but if my guess is right, he's seen his daughter be raised as some regular Court citizen who was allowed - even told, in some cases - to get away with far more than would be tolerable outside of the Court. Maybe Anthony really, REALLY, hates the Court - more than he can show (some semblance of) his love to Antimony. |
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Post by GK Sierra on Apr 11, 2015 0:44:50 GMT
I gotta ask, are these boards moderated? At all? Yes. If everyone abides by rule 1 there wont be any issues. Its a very simple rule. Those currently getting bent out of shape should refresh themselves on what the sticky says. This forum is actually known for being really polite and cordial. Let's keep it that way. |
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Post by todd on Apr 11, 2015 0:45:30 GMT
Kat might shift to the primary protagonist for a bit, with the primary goal of helping Annie. I think that the shift to Kat as the main character is indeed likely - all the more likely after I saw this page. What grabbed my attention the most when I read this chapter was not the debate over Antony's character (which I even preferred to stay out of, especially once it got uglier than Ysengrin's soldiers), but the question "Where will the story go from here, long-term?" When Antony began laying down his restrictions on Annie, I wondered how this would affect the future of the story. Forbidding her to visit the forest isn't that much of a problem; Gilltie Wood is only one of several threads in the comic (there were twelve chapters between Annie's first and second visits to the forest). The general rules he announced, on the other hand, were; he indicated that she would spend all her time studying now. (His talk about avoiding "distractions" - his word - certainly suggests that he won't tolerate any more of this exploring the Court and investigating the weirdness, and he certainly seems to have the ability to back it up. I don't think his security measures would be as easily nullified as the Court's.) Which reduces the amount of story possibilities further - there's not going to be much material in studying from dawn to evening. (Not to mention that another major character - Reynardine - is evidently about to share Annie's apparent fate of - if you'll excuse the TV Tropes term - "being put on a bus".) I felt that Tom would have to undo this somehow (though I couldn't imagine how - at least, any way that would seem realistic and satisfying) for the story to progress. (Perhaps the only thing lacking would have been for Antony to decide to transfer Annie to another school - most likely the most ordinary, mundane school he could find in the UK, where the only etheric activity that ever takes place there is Ketrak showing up whenever the school custodian sprays for bugs - on the theory that it was investigating all the weirdness at Gunnerkrigg that was keeping her from studying and leading to her cheating. That would definitely mean "She's gone.") But today's page brought home something that I should have realized sooner (it had been already made clear in the earlier pages, but I was thinking too much about the external obstacles). Annie's been broken. The fire's gone out of her. And that's something the protagonist can't afford to lose. Even if Antony leaves the Court tomorrow and his rules are revoked, Annie's still going to be that way - too passive to set out to do anything. So now (unless the whole thing turns out to be an illusion), the role of protagonist will have to shift to Kat. She's still got the initiative. She can do things. She can take the lead, as Annie currently can't. And "Gunnerkrigg Court" had felt, more and more, as if it was giving her the lead role - as if, perhaps, Tom knew he was going to write this chapter and was setting the grounds for this big change. Of course, even then, it's going to be a different story. Kat's so far had much less interest in delving into what's really going on at the Court than Annie has, and doesn't have links with a lot of the threads (say, that rabbit-turned-boy, whom Tom must be setting up for more stories). Paz can take over much of the etheric role, though her focus is on animals rather than on ghosts and Guides. At least the "robot cult" arc is in no danger of being hindered. (And we have a lot of unanswered questions about Antony, ranging from where he's been all this time to what happened to his hand.) It's certainly a bold step - switching your lead halfway through the story - but others have done it besides Tom. From what I've seen of him, I think he may be able to make it work. Let's hope so. (Just as I hope that these thoughts won't get upstaged by more of the Antony debate - which I doubt Tom had foreseen.) |
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anisky
Junior Member
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Post by anisky on Apr 11, 2015 1:13:42 GMT
Kat might shift to the primary protagonist for a bit, with the primary goal of helping Annie. I think that the shift to Kat as the main character is indeed likely - all the more likely after I saw this page. (snip) I felt that Tom would have to undo this somehow (though I couldn't imagine how - at least, any way that would seem realistic and satisfying) for the story to progress. (snip) But today's page brought home something that I should have realized sooner (it had been already made clear in the earlier pages, but I was thinking too much about the external obstacles). Annie's been broken. The fire's gone out of her. And that's something the protagonist can't afford to lose. Even if Antony leaves the Court tomorrow and his rules are revoked, Annie's still going to be that way - too passive to set out to do anything. So now (unless the whole thing turns out to be an illusion), the role of protagonist will have to shift to Kat. She's still got the initiative. She can do things. She can take the lead, as Annie currently can't. I disagree with this. I can't imagine a satisfying way for Tom NOT to "undo" it-- by "it," I mean Annie's breaking and loss of her fire (still metaphorical, at least I dearly hope so). (Though I'll explain below why I don't think getting Annie largely out of this situation is the same as undoing it.) I would find it supremely dissatisfying storytelling if the protagonist was mentally and emotionally decimated, broken,completely passive and having lost her agency... and then for her to stay that way while the narrative switches to the story of her best friend. I mean, Kat is definitely a character who could carry a story as the protagonist, I have no arguments there. And I could certainly see this scenario happening in the short-term, as long as a few chapters maybe. But unless you are writing a really, really depressing story, if you break your main character and grind her self-worth and agency into the ground, it's to tell the story of how she puts herself back together and faces the odds to win back her agency and her fire. I don't see Annie's journey of coming back from rock bottom to a place where she has initiative and can "take the lead" as undoing what's happened. It's the story of how Annie has a horrible experience that hits her where she is most vulnerable, and manages to overcome it. |
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Post by Aegis J. Hyena on Apr 11, 2015 1:23:14 GMT
I think we won't see a loss of her fire, per se, unless we see the Blinker stone shattered.
My next guess? Kat retires to her Fortress of Solitude and tells the robots "Without Annie, there would be no Creator Kat. Help me save her."
I expect Kat to go full nova here. She's not the type to sit around and let others step on her and over her. Mess with her, she can take it. She's strong. Mess with her friends on the other hand, and she gets nasty. Maybe she rebuilds her flying machine and goes to find Coyote, warning him of the situation. Sure, she might get "laughed" at (It's Coyote, after all) but something tells me he will not be pleased...
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Post by todd on Apr 11, 2015 1:24:29 GMT
I disagree with this. I can't imagine a satisfying way for Tom NOT to "undo" it-- by "it," I mean Annie's breaking and loss of her fire (still metaphorical, at least I dearly hope so). (Though I'll explain below why I don't think getting Annie largely out of this situation is the same as undoing it.) I would find it supremely dissatisfying storytelling if the protagonist was mentally and emotionally decimated, broken,completely passive and having lost her agency... and then for her to stay that way while the narrative switches to the story of her best friend. I mean, Kat is definitely a character who could carry a story as the protagonist, I have no arguments there. And I could certainly see this scenario happening in the short-term, as long as a few chapters maybe. But unless you are writing a really, really depressing story, if you break your main character and grind her self-worth and agency into the ground, it's to tell the story of how she puts herself back together and faces the odds to win back her agency and her fire. I don't see Annie's journey of coming back from rock bottom to a place where she has initiative and can "take the lead" as undoing what's happened. It's the story of how Annie has a horrible experience that hits her where she is most vulnerable, and manages to overcome it. Good point. But I think it'll be a long time before Annie can get back to the level where she has the initiative again - and unless Tom's planning to skip ahead by anywhere from several months to a couple of years, someone else will have to take over the role of protagonist until Annie's capable of filling it. I might add that I didn't think that Annie would be over and done with forever. I just felt that she wouldn't be likely to play an active role for the next few chapters. |
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Post by todd on Apr 11, 2015 1:33:26 GMT
Something that I've thought myself. I'm not sure how much we can bring up Jeanne's murder in our assessment of the Court of today, since that was done by the Founders (long-since dead) and the present administration/faculty doesn't know about it. (Though it's still a bad beginning, and may well have molded the Court's later choices.) But add to that the deception of Renard and the tone that what you get punished for if you're caught breaking the rules isn't breaking the rules, but getting caught - and on top of it all, I still have uneasy feelings about the Court's big experiment project - especially after Jones' remark in "The Stone" about the horrors that tampering with the ether might unleash. It seems as dangerous to me as digging a great hole that undermines the foundations of your house because you thought you heard something interesting beneath and wanted to find out what it was. (Small wonder, with such an outlook, that they decide to overlook students cheating.) I don't think I'd want to send my children to the Court, if I had any. |
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Post by Gulby on Apr 11, 2015 1:43:29 GMT
Ok, so. I've spent my whole day reading the now 9 pages to see whether I'm or not the only one who think that Kat is about to explode with laughter. It seems that I'm the only one and thus, I wonder how much I am wrong with reading faces. But, yeah, I call it now : next page, Kat is laughing out loud, out of relief ("Annie's still here!") and surprise ("What the heck is that new haircut?!"). Then she hugs Annie. Later (at some point, near or far), Anthony is informed (angry Kat? Panicked Donald? Concerned Anja or James? Neutral Jones?) that the way he's acting may actually be really hurting his daughter. Shocked, Anthony is squizzing (?) his hands so hard that his nails are cutting his palms. He then tries to apologize and explains himself about his motives.
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Post by Chancellor on Apr 11, 2015 1:52:08 GMT
Ah, I think I've figured it out.
The reason Anthony returned so suddenly is:
Annie's been infected-during her time in the forest-with Etheric lice! And, uh, if she's told about it they'll explode...Yeah, they'll explode is verbally pointed out! So Anthony's covertly solved the issue by cutting Annie's hair, and now she's packing her belongings so they can be decontaminated while Anthony warns the Court (surreptitiously) of the danger of secondary infestations.
Mmmmmmmmhmm!!
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Post by antiyonder on Apr 11, 2015 2:06:25 GMT
I've theorized in my mind for a bit that maybe, just maybe, Anthony is an old-world kind of man, not a Gunnerkrigg citizen. Some things about Gunnerkrigg Court tells me that people are far more lax regarding their morality - between the killing and cover-up of Jeanne's death, the non-chalant attitude the guards have when pursuing Jack in the halls, the massive surveillance program that is radically 1984-esque (or worse!), and (dare I say) the fact that the Donlan teachers themselves never were aware of (or opted to ignore) Annie's academic track-record for copying homework... Reynard says as much about the Court moral compass as being far more laxing than the outside world, though I'm inclined to believe that's for the worse... the far worse, if my thinking is right. It's no secret that Surma worked for the Court in the past. Whether Anthony did as well, I'm not sure we can really say, but maybe - just maybe - Surma indulged on whatever crazy-juice allows the Court to operate the way it does, and Anthony did not like that one bit. Perhaps he vowed to raise their daughter outside of the Court and away from the craziness that laid within, but as we all know, Surma - NOT Anthony - wished for her to go there. And therein lies the rub: while Anthony may be willing to work with the Court, he may have despised the fact that his daughter was allowed to be raised in such a moral cesspit. It's hard to imagine what Anthony's truly thinking, but if my guess is right, he's seen his daughter be raised as some regular Court citizen who was allowed - even told, in some cases - to get away with far more than would be tolerable outside of the Court. Maybe Anthony really, REALLY, hates the Court - more than he can show (some semblance of) his love to Antimony. I don't know. While it may have been Surma's request and if this link (http://new.spring.me/#!/gunnerkrigg/q/256994851) is legit, then apparently his stance was "he didn't mind". |
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Post by ninjaraven on Apr 11, 2015 2:09:08 GMT
Really? I feel the exact opposite. If he said it was all about him, that might make Annie confused or suspicious. I think it would be a perfect act of manipulation to express (what is in my opinion) faux-concern before handing down more and more ridiculous punishments until he gets what he wants (Renard). Again, this is how I interpret these events and I could be entirely wrong, but I hardly think the expression of disappointment rules out manipulation in the slightest. Why on earth wouldn't he want her to go to the court? After all, it is a school of science that seems to be extremely advanced. Plus, it's unclear whether he even has to pay for her to attend. Zimmy clearly isn't paying her way, and since the Court produces it's own clothes and food and can cover the cost of the school, they might just recruit kids with special talents free of charge. Because if all Tony ultimately wants is control of Annie, he NEVER would've given up that control and remained silent for 3 years. And Annie would not be able to question Tony about it being "all about him" because if he is a big ol' manipulator and control freak, it IS All About Him, and their relationship would have always been About Him - which is why she would have to be broken and re-subsumed into his persona now. So why would he even give her a chance to develop a persona of her own? Why even give her even the smallest avenue to make it Not About Him?? He was her primary guardian - why even send her to school in the first place? He could've made a pretext to keep her with him and homeschooled her. If he felt pressured to send her to school, he'd have likely moved back to the Court himself, just to keep tabs on her - to make sure that their relationship remained All About Him. Instead she's had 3 years all to herself. I seriously doubt Tony's ability to be that clever and subtle a master manipulator, given his inability to react appropriately on relational matters from Microsat 5. It just doesn't add up. Welcome to the forum! I don't think Mr. Carver knows enough about people to be *consciously* a manipulator but I do think he is controlling. And yes, this current state of affairs is probably temporary in his mind... because once Antimony is back on what he considers the correct track that means he's free to depart again. Thank you for the welcome  Of course he wants Annie back on the correct track. Tony sent Annie here to be educated and she is NOT being educated - she is being allowed to cheat her way through school. Is it a bad thing for a parent to send their kid away for an education and to expect them to receive it? Poor relationship with her or no, he is still her father, and she is still a minor - it is still his responsibility and right to make that call. I'm not sure about why Tony kept away from the Court for so long, or whether he plans on leaving again after Annie has completed her remedial work - though I have a feeling that the reason for that may be connected into the Jeanne, Past Friends, and Rey plot arcs. ----- On further thinking, I am wondering if we're getting a skewed perspective BECAUSE we're seeing things from Annie's POV. Her unhealthy desire for approval from her Father combined with the years of the silence have made her unsure of how to relate to her father. The adult makeup was an utter bust, and dad seemed to want total control of her life, so maybe dad wants her to be a little kid for him? Off with the hair, on with the blue smock! I wonder if Tony has seen her in this state yet, and whether he approves ... guess we'll have to see on Monday. |
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Post by antiyonder on Apr 11, 2015 2:20:03 GMT
Because if all Tony ultimately wants is control of Annie, he NEVER would've given up that control and remained silent for 3 years. And Annie would not be able to question Tony about it being "all about him" because if he is a big ol' manipulator and control freak, it IS All About Him, and their relationship would have always been About Him - which is why she would have to be broken and re-subsumed into his persona now. So why would he even give her a chance to develop a persona of her own? Why even give her even the smallest avenue to make it Not About Him?? He was her primary guardian - why even send her to school in the first place? He could've made a pretext to keep her with him and homeschooled her. If he felt pressured to send her to school, he'd have likely moved back to the Court himself, just to keep tabs on her - to make sure that their relationship remained All About Him. Instead she's had 3 years all to herself. I seriously doubt Tony's ability to be that clever and subtle a master manipulator, given his inability to react appropriately on relational matters from Microsat 5. It just doesn't add up. Well, he sent her there without a lack of people skills, and even if he was too busy to be available for contacting, I can't think of any legit reason he would refrain from giving her some alternatives for contact (like the Donlans) unless he was trying to keep her from getting stronger emotionally. |
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Post by warrl on Apr 11, 2015 2:29:04 GMT
Anthony may have ordered it, which I admit will make me hate him just a little. That does seem extreme, and unrelated to the reason why he did everything else. It's arbitrary and demeaning. Almost everything he has done since his return has been arbitrary and demeaning. Everything that wasn't inherently arbitrary and demeaning was done in a destructive and demeaning manner. (If you're going to make a kid repeat a year, you don't begin by letting them spend an entire class period in a class they won't be taking. There's some other class Annie should have been in.) And the decision that Annie would repeat a year was made without anyone even talking to Annie to find out why she cheats. Which is the wrong way to go about things, and - again - demeaning. Heck, I'd say that even Mr. Carver's syllabus for the biology class - for the students who WILL be in the class - is arbitrary and demeaning, because it's apparently rather advanced for this class and either assuming preparation they don't have or expecting excessively-rapid advancement. Or perhaps both. Everyone in the class, including Annie, was exhausted by just the one class period. (How would you like to be their teacher for the next period?) I'm really wondering if Anthony actually sees Antimony as a real person at all. I'm wondering of Anthony sees ANYONE other than himself as a real person. Ack sorry, I misread your post earlier. Yeah, you don't have to explain the opposing stance. But in any case, I am still curious. Why do you think his actions are not wrong? No make-up in class. Seems perfectly reasonable. People tell me that there are other girls in the class that wear make-up, but I didn't notice any. Did he single her out? I don't think so. Maybe he did, and that's a dick move. I'll give you that one if that's true, still not a sign that he's gosh golly A HORRIBLE ABUSER KAT SHOULD MAKE THE ROBOTS MURDER HIM VIOLENTLY! Retract her grades and force her to retake a year for excessive cheating, not seeing a problem. Arranging separate living quarters, since she can't live in the next year's dorms and the current year's dorms are already reserved for new students. Still not seeing a problem. Threatening to punish Kat if Kat helped Annie cheat. Let's back up a bit. "if Kat helped Annie cheat." Let's back up one more time, because people really seem to have a problem with this one. "if Kat helped Annie cheat." Yeah, not seeing a problem. What else. Not allowed to go into the forest, with its illusionary wasps and its psychotic wolves and its insane gods. Silly, dangerous, whatever reason he gives, still not a bad idea. Taking away Renard, the murderer who everyone says is super special awesome now, but which Anthony has not witnessed and has no reason to take at face value, and who could definitely stand to be under the control of someone who was a bit more responsible than Annie (which I grant you may or may not be a criterion Anthony fits, but again, principle). Did I miss anything? Oh, you most certainly did. Two years of no contact whatsoever. Finally calling, but only to use her as a tape recorder. Returning to the school without a single word to her. Arranging for her to repeat a year, without making any effort to learn her perspective on the matter. Not informing her of that arrangement promptly, so she will waste a significant part of her first class day. Beginning the class by unprofessionally belittling her and then embarrassing her in front of the other students. Separating her unnecessarily from the other students, by forcing her out of a perfectly workable living arrangement. (And apparently into isolation: she'll be moving into "your" own quarters, not "our" own quarters.) Demanding that she give up a position she legitimately earned on her own merits, that is neither his nor the court's to take away from her. As for Reynardine, you have a choice: Rey is no threat and Mr. C is unjustified in taking him away, or Mr. C is guilty of RECKLESS ENDANGERMENT for not doing so two and a half years earlier. Which do you prefer? I...think I'd better take a break. Reminds me of some stuff I'd rather not remember. Ever. And some people think Mr. Carver isn't being abusive. |
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Post by calpal on Apr 11, 2015 2:54:54 GMT
I've theorized in my mind for a bit that maybe, just maybe, Anthony is an old-world kind of man, not a Gunnerkrigg citizen. Some things about Gunnerkrigg Court tells me that people are far more lax regarding their morality - between the killing and cover-up of Jeanne's death, the non-chalant attitude the guards have when pursuing Jack in the halls, the massive surveillance program that is radically 1984-esque (or worse!), and (dare I say) the fact that the Donlan teachers themselves never were aware of (or opted to ignore) Annie's academic track-record for copying homework... Reynard says as much about the Court moral compass as being far more laxing than the outside world, though I'm inclined to believe that's for the worse... the far worse, if my thinking is right. It's no secret that Surma worked for the Court in the past. Whether Anthony did as well, I'm not sure we can really say, but maybe - just maybe - Surma indulged on whatever crazy-juice allows the Court to operate the way it does, and Anthony did not like that one bit. Perhaps he vowed to raise their daughter outside of the Court and away from the craziness that laid within, but as we all know, Surma - NOT Anthony - wished for her to go there. And therein lies the rub: while Anthony may be willing to work with the Court, he may have despised the fact that his daughter was allowed to be raised in such a moral cesspit. It's hard to imagine what Anthony's truly thinking, but if my guess is right, he's seen his daughter be raised as some regular Court citizen who was allowed - even told, in some cases - to get away with far more than would be tolerable outside of the Court. Maybe Anthony really, REALLY, hates the Court - more than he can show (some semblance of) his love to Antimony. I don't know. While it may have been Surma's request and if this link (http://new.spring.me/#!/gunnerkrigg/q/256994851) is legit, then apparently his stance was "he didn't mind". At first, I was simply content with him saying that Anthony was all right with Surma making the call, thus ruining my whole speculation. But there's a difference between not minding one's business and not caring about one's business. Keep in consideration that minding could, in this context, mean 'he doesn't feel it was an important issue', or it could mean 'he didn't react strongly to it' or - even more radically - 'he didn't pay any attention to it'. Given Anthony's character, those last two definitions somehow feel a lot more fitting when Tom says something like "he doesn't mind it". Or 'not minding it' could mean, in the most comically tragic of scenarios, that he wasn't paying attention to Annie. Which is more than enough punches to the gut leading into this weekend and towards Monday. Long Story Short: His springforum comment is, to me, vague enough to leave some room for interpretation as to what Tom means. |
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Post by AnUpliftedCuttlefish on Apr 11, 2015 3:18:02 GMT
Ah, I think I've figured it out. The reason Anthony returned so suddenly is: Annie's been infected-during her time in the forest-with Etheric lice! And, uh, if she's told about it they'll explode...Yeah, they'll explode is verbally pointed out! So Anthony's covertly solved the issue by cutting Annie's hair, and now she's packing her belongings so they can be decontaminated while Anthony warns the Court (surreptitiously) of the danger of secondary infestations. Mmmmmmmmhmm!! Cue a light hearted chapter following Smitty as he attempts to sneak flea collars onto Coyote & Ysengrin, lest they too succumb to the threat of exploding Ether Lice. Because if you're worried about living next to a god, you'd be extra worried about living next to a god who's all irritable due to a parasite infestation. |
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Post by sapientcoffee on Apr 11, 2015 3:29:49 GMT
It looks to me that she is wearing the same outfit from this strip: www.gunnerkrigg.com/?p=306Though, maybe no necklaces this time around. I thought so too at first, but the new dress is not completely button-down like the earlier onne, and the buttons are on the wrong side. Actually none of her blue dresses in the hospital scenes were the same, which is really weird. At first I thought it was a hospital thing but now I see it was Anthony's wardrobe decision. But why would you not allow your child even the slightest variety of clothes? This is so strange. Surma also wore blue. We'll have to see if all that blue had a purpose. |
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Post by guitarminotaur on Apr 11, 2015 3:49:48 GMT
gunnerkrigg.com/?p=1286If we really want to remember how insecure Annie can be, one only needs to go back to this strip. And the strip after Annie comes back from the forest, where she's battling to win Kat's affections back, come to mind as well. Despite her apparent stoicism and lack of outward emotion, I actually see Annie as being far more emotionally fragile than Kat. Think of Annie as an emotional brick wall and Kat as a pool of water; the brick wall may appear more solid, but strike water and it'll wobble, reform and ultimately stand any punishment. The brick wall, on the other hand, may remain steady for longer, but every crack is more permanent and after a big enough blow you'll have a pile of building materials needing reconstruction again.
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Post by AnUpliftedCuttlefish on Apr 11, 2015 3:51:46 GMT
Anthony may have ordered it, which I admit will make me hate him just a little. That does seem extreme, and unrelated to the reason why he did everything else. It's arbitrary and demeaning. Almost everything he has done since his return has been arbitrary and demeaning. Everything that wasn't inherently arbitrary and demeaning was done in a destructive and demeaning manner. (If you're going to make a kid repeat a year, you don't begin by letting them spend an entire class period in a class they won't be taking. There's some other class Annie should have been in.) Indeed, and that's assuming that biology was the first class of the day, and that was the first day of school. Regardless it looks like Antimony also missed whatever classes followed biology - for either year 9 or 10. So if she starts her year 9 classes the next day, she'll be playing catch up from the very beginning. While still recovering from the pretty significant emotional/mental turmoil from less than 24 hours before, which means she's probably going to be running at reduced capacity as well. If one's platform is "I want to make sure you succeed at your schoolwork" you don't go out of your way to ensure they'll be starting with as many handicaps as possible. In this situation you make sure they know, and are ready, as far before classes resume as you can. |
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Post by guitarminotaur on Apr 11, 2015 3:55:25 GMT
Almost everything he has done since his return has been arbitrary and demeaning. Everything that wasn't inherently arbitrary and demeaning was done in a destructive and demeaning manner. (If you're going to make a kid repeat a year, you don't begin by letting them spend an entire class period in a class they won't be taking. There's some other class Annie should have been in.) Indeed, and that's assuming that biology was the first class of the day, and that was the first day of school. Either way it looks like Antimony missed whatever classes followed biology - for either year 9 or 10. So if she starts her year 9 classes the next day, she'll be playing catch up from the very beginning. While still recovering from the pretty significant emotional/mental turmoil from less than 24 hours before, which means she's probably going to be running at reduced capacity as well. If one's platform is "I want to make sure you succeed at your schoolwork" you don't go out of your way to ensure they'll be starting with as many handicaps as possible. In this situation you make sure they know, and are ready, as far before classes resume as possible. The only possible mitigation for that would be that all of this; the arrangements, Anthony's arrival and everything else, happened on the morning of the classes. AKA Anthony literally didn't have time to organise any of this beforehand.
Though in that case, why didn't he arrive sooner? Unless events detained him.
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Post by The Anarch on Apr 11, 2015 4:04:01 GMT
. . . huh! How 'bout that. Question now is, deliberate choice or coincidence? |
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Post by AnUpliftedCuttlefish on Apr 11, 2015 4:26:41 GMT
Indeed, and that's assuming that biology was the first class of the day, and that was the first day of school. Either way it looks like Antimony missed whatever classes followed biology - for either year 9 or 10. So if she starts her year 9 classes the next day, she'll be playing catch up from the very beginning. While still recovering from the pretty significant emotional/mental turmoil from less than 24 hours before, which means she's probably going to be running at reduced capacity as well. If one's platform is "I want to make sure you succeed at your schoolwork" you don't go out of your way to ensure they'll be starting with as many handicaps as possible. In this situation you make sure they know, and are ready, as far before classes resume as possible. The only possible mitigation for that would be that all of this; the arrangements, Anthony's arrival and everything else, happened on the morning of the classes. AKA Anthony literally didn't have time to organise any of this beforehand.
Though in that case, why didn't he arrive sooner? Unless events detained him.
Agreed, though it'd be a pretty disorganized state of affairs if so. And he'd apparently had time to organize for classes, go over Antimony's school work with a fine tooth comb and conclude she'd cheated, already have the arrangements made for repeating, have alternative accommodation organized for her etc That seems like the sort of thing you'd need more than an hour or two before class to get sorted. I guess all that could hypothetically be done from off off site, but with something like this I'd think - if you're going to do it, do it right. If you can't tell her face to face till it's too late? Call her. Get someone else to do it. Make time to do it yourself. If you're coordinating so much with the court without being there that you can turn up the morning you start teaching, and have all this sorted, you should be able to do those things. It makes it even harder to excuse knowing Annie has just had weeks of break time when this could of been handled, which would have allowed her to start year 9 classes again without so much disruption. Heck, with a head-start even. |
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Post by rafk on Apr 11, 2015 4:34:42 GMT
Ack sorry, I misread your post earlier. Yeah, you don't have to explain the opposing stance. But in any case, I am still curious. Why do you think his actions are not wrong? No make-up in class. Seems perfectly reasonable. People tell me that there are other girls in the class that wear make-up, but I didn't notice any. Did he single her out? I don't think so. Maybe he did, and that's a dick move. I'll give you that one if that's true, still not a sign that he's gosh golly A HORRIBLE ABUSER KAT SHOULD MAKE THE ROBOTS MURDER HIM VIOLENTLY! Retract her grades and force her to retake a year for excessive cheating, not seeing a problem. Arranging separate living quarters, since she can't live in the next year's dorms and the current year's dorms are already reserved for new students. Still not seeing a problem. Threatening to punish Kat if Kat helped Annie cheat. Let's back up a bit. "if Kat helped Annie cheat." Let's back up one more time, because people really seem to have a problem with this one. "if Kat helped Annie cheat." Yeah, not seeing a problem. What else. Not allowed to go into the forest, with its illusionary wasps and its psychotic wolves and its insane gods. Silly, dangerous, whatever reason he gives, still not a bad idea. Taking away Renard, the murderer who everyone says is super special awesome now, but which Anthony has not witnessed and has no reason to take at face value, and who could definitely stand to be under the control of someone who was a bit more responsible than Annie (which I grant you may or may not be a criterion Anthony fits, but again, principle). Did I miss anything? Execution is, putting it lightly, less than ideal. But most, if not all, of his actions are perfectly valid. I again attribute the massive backlash against him to a kneejerk reaction to Antimony's seemingly spectacularly delicate psyche rather than any actual wrongdoing on Anthony's part. In the absence of someone to legitimately blame, Tony is the designated scapegoat for his outstandingly poor interpersonal skills. Did you miss something? How about Anthony not being around for 2 years, returning without so much as a hello and then launching in to all this without a warm word to his daughter or a word of explanation as to where he has been? There's not a sign that he gives one hoot for Annie's welfare. It's entirely possible that his absence and return is strictly to further some goal of his (possibly to take control of Rey). I feel you are just trolling people with references to kneejerk reactions and Annie's delicate psyche, truth be told, or at best you and zimmyzims are just dedicated contrarians. The majority view in these forums should be enough to tell you that by standard human values of behaviour Anthony is not in the right. |
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Post by AnUpliftedCuttlefish on Apr 11, 2015 4:55:40 GMT
Heck, I'd say that even Mr. Carver's syllabus for the biology class - for the students who WILL be in the class - is arbitrary and demeaning, because it's apparently rather advanced for this class and either assuming preparation they don't have or expecting excessively-rapid advancement. Or perhaps both. Everyone in the class, including Annie, was exhausted by just the one class period. (How would you like to be their teacher for the next period?) I have special sympathy for Kat in this. Anthony seems to be the individual that's come the closest to inspiring true hate in Kat (Diego troubled her a lot too, but Anthony...). And - unless Annie has a miraculous case to deliver in the defense of Anthony right now - she's going to hate him even more for what he's doing. Which would be one thing, if she didn't have to see him. But she'll be seeing him all the time, in every biology class she has. She's going to have to deal with him being the boss, having to show him respect etc. With the added pressure of his "Above and Beyond" biology syllabus. That's the makings of a cold war that could turn hot at any moment, right there. |
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