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Post by speedwell on Apr 11, 2015 5:06:59 GMT
Indeed, and that's assuming that biology was the first class of the day, and that was the first day of school. Either way it looks like Antimony missed whatever classes followed biology - for either year 9 or 10. So if she starts her year 9 classes the next day, she'll be playing catch up from the very beginning. While still recovering from the pretty significant emotional/mental turmoil from less than 24 hours before, which means she's probably going to be running at reduced capacity as well. If one's platform is "I want to make sure you succeed at your schoolwork" you don't go out of your way to ensure they'll be starting with as many handicaps as possible. In this situation you make sure they know, and are ready, as far before classes resume as possible. The only possible mitigation for that would be that all of this; the arrangements, Anthony's arrival and everything else, happened on the morning of the classes. AKA Anthony literally didn't have time to organise any of this beforehand.
Though in that case, why didn't he arrive sooner? Unless events detained him.
He needed enough time to have books and class materials sent to the room, at least. I have been a corporate classroom trainer and I have arrived the morning of class to a new location, but it required considerable planning and forethought and coordination with onsite resources, and the managers knew I was coming and informed the students, even if the students had to be at work that day anyway. |
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Post by fuzzyone on Apr 11, 2015 5:16:53 GMT
And there's another body blow... We got a little longer to reel after the last one. Just to let us draw in a shaky breath before seeing Annie reduced to her "Good Hope" days appearance...
Dolores Umbridge made me angry. That Toad of a woman triggered every single one of my anger responses. And there have been other characters like that. So odious as to draw instant, quivering hatred.
That's not what I have for Tony.
Anthony Carver scares me.
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Post by TBeholder on Apr 11, 2015 5:28:41 GMT
Whoa. Trippy.
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Post by zimmyzims on Apr 11, 2015 8:10:27 GMT
I don't know. While it may have been Surma's request and if this link (http://new.spring.me/#!/gunnerkrigg/q/256994851) is legit, then apparently his stance was "he didn't mind". I guess that had he seriously minded it, he had acted earlier, no? However, that he would not particularly like, or support the Court personally, despite working for it for practical reasons, is something I have proposed all along. I have thought, however, that his detachment with the Corut would have to do with whatever happened during the phases of the story that we do not know about, and not with his general customary morals. The part of the story I'm thinking about in particular is the time when he got together with Surma and Surma, at least, apparently worked for the Court. |
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Post by aline on Apr 11, 2015 8:37:35 GMT
I disagree with this. I can't imagine a satisfying way for Tom NOT to "undo" it-- by "it," I mean Annie's breaking and loss of her fire (still metaphorical, at least I dearly hope so). (Though I'll explain below why I don't think getting Annie largely out of this situation is the same as undoing it.) I would find it supremely dissatisfying storytelling if the protagonist was mentally and emotionally decimated, broken,completely passive and having lost her agency... and then for her to stay that way while the narrative switches to the story of her best friend. I mean, Kat is definitely a character who could carry a story as the protagonist, I have no arguments there. And I could certainly see this scenario happening in the short-term, as long as a few chapters maybe. But unless you are writing a really, really depressing story, if you break your main character and grind her self-worth and agency into the ground, it's to tell the story of how she puts herself back together and faces the odds to win back her agency and her fire. I don't see Annie's journey of coming back from rock bottom to a place where she has initiative and can "take the lead" as undoing what's happened. It's the story of how Annie has a horrible experience that hits her where she is most vulnerable, and manages to overcome it. Good point. But I think it'll be a long time before Annie can get back to the level where she has the initiative again - and unless Tom's planning to skip ahead by anywhere from several months to a couple of years, someone else will have to take over the role of protagonist until Annie's capable of filling it. I might add that I didn't think that Annie would be over and done with forever. I just felt that she wouldn't be likely to play an active role for the next few chapters. I really doubt it'll take months, much less years. I expect the situation to be mostly resolved within this chapter.
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Post by zbeeblebrox on Apr 11, 2015 8:42:44 GMT
Speaking of that link to chapter 9...what do you think the chances are that that's the "tree" being referred to by this chapter title? After all, I don't think there's been a chapter image that's been purely symbolic has there? Like, if it meant "family tree" or something like that, it wouldn't have been a literal image of a tree branch, I don't think. And the tree Annie and Kat bonded under grew berries not apples. And I don't recall that plot point with the arm having ever been addressed since then..
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Post by Vilthuril on Apr 11, 2015 10:12:50 GMT
I speculated something very similar in a previous strip thread. Anthony does not understand emotions. To him they are unnecessary distractions; at most, variables in an equation that need to be solved. He definitely feels responsibility towards Annie, but I would compare it to the responsibility a homeowner feels towards their house. She is a thing to be managed, and where she does intersect with him as a human being it is only in a negative way - a reminder of someone that he may have actually felt something for and couldn't save. A stain on his reputation of hard work and integrity. I'm having trouble responding to this in a coherent way; lots of thoughts. Basically I would say yes, I do think he sees her as a human being, but the way humans treat other humans can be very complex and varying. |
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karl
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Post by karl on Apr 11, 2015 10:41:14 GMT
Regarding Anthony's behaviour, it feels like he's basing his actions, both in class and after class, on a pre-prepared list, allowing for no interruptions. A perfectly logical list with no redundancies. Note how he introduced himself by writing his name on the blackboard and then orally continues from there. Because repeating his name orally would be inefficient and/or pointless. Same goes for a greeting, a simple "Hello" would serve no purpose in his mind, so he omitted it. An exception would be the matter regarding Antimony's make-up, perhaps it threw him off-track for a second? After all, I think this is the first time he sees Antimony with make-up applied. (Also, it just sprung up in my mind, but was he there (as in the same room, because Antimony likely was) when Surma actually died and does he know it was Antimony who took her to the ether or did he opt to stay away because he would not have been able to do anything anyway and hence it would have been inefficient?)
Also his actions after the class follow the same logic, a pre-prepared conversation or rather a "list of things and changes he needs to inform Antimony of" in order to follow his perfectly logical and well-thought out plan for setting Antimony on the correct path. What else would he need to say to his daughter anyway? "Hello" - pointless. "How are you doing" - already knows how she is doing. Her opinion on his perfect plan - not relevant, because his plan is perfect. Antimony brings up a completely not relevant matter about his hand - shoot down her question and continue reading the list.
I think that he did come back way before the start of the new schoolyear, but did not contact her daughter before because he would be teaching her class anyway and it would be pointless to meet her before. When back he decided to take a look at Antimony's school work and compared her to her peers, discovered cheating and formulated a plan with the purpose of solving the situation. A perfectly logical action - sees a mistake and sets out to fix it.
However someone really needs to sit down with him and explain (in Anthony-speak) that he is intentionally disregarding certain variables, such as the emotions of her daughter and her reasons for doing the things she does, and if he'd factor those in he would discover that his plans might actually be faulty and not achieve their purpose and would actually cause harm to his daughter. Since he can't comprehend such things like emotions he should consult someone who does. I think the only person who could do that is Mr. Donlan.
I also do not know how he would respond to the fact that her daughter cut her hair and the fact he did not tell her to do that (if he did not tell her to do that). Disappointed because she is wasting time? I do not think he apt enough to pick up on the changes of her behaviour. I am both looking forward and dreading further developments because Steam-Roller Anthony is not going to be stopped yet. Outside assistance is needed and fast to put a stop to this situation.
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Post by Vilthuril on Apr 11, 2015 11:00:27 GMT
Here's another cheerful thought: Kat decides to take Annie to their cherry tree so they can have a moment alone, only to find the cherry tree gone and replaced with an apple tree. Yeeey. Nonsense. It would have to be a lemon tree. Hmmm....Perhaps a fig (tree of knowledge of good and evil) or a date palm (tree of life)?  |
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Post by AnUpliftedCuttlefish on Apr 11, 2015 11:05:56 GMT
Regarding Anthony's behaviour, it feels like he's basing his actions, both in class and after class, on a pre-prepared list, allowing for no interruptions. A perfectly logical list with no redundancies. Note how he introduced himself by writing his name on the blackboard and then orally continues from there. Because repeating his name orally would be inefficient and/or pointless. Same goes for a greeting, a simple "Hello" would serve no purpose in his mind, so he omitted it. An exception would be the matter regarding Antimony's make-up, perhaps it threw him off-track for a second? After all, I think this is the first time he sees Antimony with make-up applied. (Also, it just sprung up in my mind, but was he there (as in the same room, because Antimony likely was) when Surma actually died and does he know it was Antimony who took her to the ether or did he opt to stay away because he would not have been able to do anything anyway and hence it would have been inefficient?) Also his actions after the class follow the same logic, a pre-prepared conversation or rather a "list of things and changes he needs to inform Antimony of" in order to follow his perfectly logical and well-thought out plan for setting Antimony on the correct path. What else would he need to say to his daughter anyway? "Hello" - pointless. "How are you doing" - already knows how she is doing. Her opinion on his perfect plan - not relevant, because his plan is perfect. Antimony brings up a completely not relevant matter about his hand - shoot down her question and continue reading the list. I think that he did come back way before the start of the new schoolyear, but did not contact her daughter before because he would be teaching her class anyway and it would be pointless to meet her before. When back he decided to take a look at Antimony's school work and compared her to her peers, discovered cheating and formulated a plan with the purpose of solving the situation. A perfectly logical action - sees a mistake and sets out to fix it. However someone really needs to sit down with him and explain (in Anthony-speak) that he is intentionally disregarding certain variables, such as the emotions of her daughter and her reasons for doing the things she does, and if he'd factor those in he would discover that his plans might actually be faulty and not achieve their purpose and would actually cause harm to his daughter. Since he can't comprehend such things like emotions he should consult someone who does. I think the only person who could do that is Mr. Donlan. I also do not know how he would respond to the fact that her daughter cut her hair and the fact he did not tell her to do that (if he did not tell her to do that). Disappointed because she is wasting time? I do not think he apt enough to pick up on the changes of her behaviour. I am both looking forward and dreading further developments because Steam-Roller Anthony is not going to be stopped yet. Outside assistance is needed and fast to put a stop to this situation. I both want that meeting to happen, and also almost don't. Donald seems like such a nice guy, and he seemed to have such faith in Anthony (if a different sort to Annie's faith in Anthony). It'll be sad to see him have to wrestle with whatever Anthony is doing/has become/has maybe become. As to the rest - that could well be it. It'd only be a slightly more extreme version of Jones assessment of him (when she was trying to make Annie mad). Though if Donnie was right about why he decided to have the message relayed through Annie... it seems so at odds with his current behavior. |
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melkior
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Nice Hat!
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Post by melkior on Apr 11, 2015 11:28:42 GMT
All I can think of is that Coyote isn't going to like this and the court may decide to override Anthony for fear of open warfare with The Forest.
But no matter what, I still think that a certain Mr A Carver is going to get a cruel comeuppance in due time. The only thing I'm wondering is exactly how long it will take for that time to become due.
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Post by thesaddestface on Apr 11, 2015 12:14:35 GMT
*screams into the void*
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Post by TBeholder on Apr 11, 2015 12:29:27 GMT
Sooooo, anybody seeing the end of the trainwreck? Anybody? It's too twisted. Maybe bulldozers could help? Did Anthony demand this insane makeover as well? IS there a cult involved? Is she just regressing in the face of a childhood stressor coming back into her life? Is Kat actually in fact dreaming and Annie becoming her pre-Gunnerkrigg self is the symbolic extreme-outcome of her fears about Anthony's effect on Annie...and also she knew about her cheating all along somehow? I don't know! You missed the possibility that Kat is in a mind control based (or AI based) simulation and input about Annie's regression was phrased ambiguously. Which also could be entertaining, especially if she caught another such error and extended an invitation into query trap or something sneaky like that. B) Kat will try to get help from the Donlans...only to be ignored at first, because they haven't seen for their own eyes whats happened and will just think "oh thats just silly old awkward Anthony, same as ever" I see two problems with this development. 1) Kat isn't stupid to blather incoherently - rather than e.g. call them to have a look and fill in very basics just before they'll have an opportunity to take a look at Annie. And doesn't have a habbit of crying wolf. 2) Her parents are far from stupid as well, and (consequently) unlikely to make mistake as to whether she is two years old. But he's been planning or betting on this from the first moment he met her, hasn't he... Not necessarily, but the possibility could be obvious from years away to someone knowing the old team better than we do. Well, let's see if the issue of "Give us back our medium!" vs. "No." will be considered a direct aggression by the Court towards the forest. "In this case, how awkward! hahaha!" indeed. The problem with your hypothesis is that no one put Annie on a leash, she would resign on her own. Assuming the rest of her class won't start a greater riot than on the Loveboat first. |
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Post by todd on Apr 11, 2015 12:44:56 GMT
] I really doubt it'll take months, much less years. I expect the situation to be mostly resolved within this chapter.
That depends on how much internal time the chapter covers. If several days, maybe. If less than twenty-four hours, not so much (at least, as far as Annie's mental state is concerned). |
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Post by imaginaryfriend on Apr 11, 2015 12:45:28 GMT
I speculated something very similar in a previous strip thread. Anthony does not understand emotions. To him they are unnecessary distractions; at most, variables in an equation that need to be solved. He definitely feels responsibility towards Annie, but I would compare it to the responsibility a homeowner feels towards their house. She is a thing to be managed, and where she does intersect with him as a human being it is only in a negative way - a reminder of someone that he may have actually felt something for and couldn't save. A stain on his reputation of hard work and integrity. I'm having trouble responding to this in a coherent way; lots of thoughts. Basically I would say yes, I do think he sees her as a human being, but the way humans treat other humans can be very complex and varying. He probably sees her as a human being but he doesn't interact with human beings well. He prefers to be alone and assumes she also does or should want the same because he hasn't gotten to know her as a person. But Antimony isn't entirely human. She is also part fire elemental (or something) and he is attempting to stamp that part of her out, literally or figuratively. So he is not just trying to force a square peg into a round hole, but whittling a 2x4 into a square peg to force into a round hole. Sooooo, anybody seeing the end of the trainwreck? Anybody? It's too twisted. Maybe bulldozers could help? If Antimony won't stand up for Antimony, maybe she'll stand up for Kat. Even if she doesn't for a while the adventures will continue... just on the down-low. |
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Post by guitarminotaur on Apr 11, 2015 13:28:33 GMT
One thing I noticed is that Anthony insisted Annie call him by formal classroom etiquette ("sir") but didn't return the favour (Annie, not "Ms Carver"). Is that of any significance beyond a token nod to parenthood?
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Post by Onomatopoeia on Apr 11, 2015 15:30:40 GMT
Two years of no contact whatsoever. Dick move, but not abusive. Finally calling, but only to use her as a tape recorder.See previous. See previous. There is not perspective that can possibly justify cheating so heavily that you have to redo an entire year's worth of work. I've mentioned this before. If she was having trouble with her school work it was her responsibility to seek out a teacher or a fellow student and ask for tutoring. She did not do this. She is entirely at fault. She wasted a significant part of A WHOLE DAY?!?!?!?!? TRULY THIS MAN IS THE WORST MONSTER OF OUR GENERATION! She has to live in her own room. You act like he's forcing her to live in a secluded base in Antarctica. A perfectly workable living arrangement that obviously wasn't working enough if she felt the need to resort to cheating instead of asking her close personal friend whom she is cheating off of for help. A position that involves unnecessary danger. A position in which her boss allows her fellow employee to try to kill her for his amusement. If your daughter legitimately earned a position working for...I don't know. The Joker (actually a pretty good comparison to Coyote now that I think about it). And Joker told Harley Quinn to murder her, even if Harley failed...would you accept her continuing to work for him? Would you accept "You should have acted two years ago when she got the job. Too bad so sad." I'll go with Option C. He's justified in taking Renard away. Perhaps he did tell them to remove Renard. It would have fallen on deaf ears since Annie's teacher hates his guts. But either way, "It's been two years, too little too late" is a poor excuse as previously established. There's not a sign that he gives one hoot for Annie's welfare. So did you really not considering the fact that he's clearly interested in making sure she has a good education as a sign that he does have some interest in her welfare, or are are you intentionally ignoring it because it doesn't support your "Anthony is evil" tract? If he didn't care he wouldn't have said anything. If his only goal were to take control of Rey then he would say "Rey is mine now. I'm outtie. Later tater." Then you feel incorrectly. I know it's easy to label someone who doesn't agree with you as a troll, but try to resist. Does not make them right. |
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Post by keef on Apr 11, 2015 16:33:51 GMT
One thing I noticed is that Anthony insisted Annie call him by formal classroom etiquette ("sir") but didn't return the favour (Annie, not "Ms Carver"). Is that of any significance beyond a token nod to parenthood? Not Annie but Antimony, but you are right, it feels out of character. Maybe not significant, but odd. |
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Post by antiyonder on Apr 11, 2015 16:37:01 GMT
There's not a sign that he gives one hoot for Annie's welfare. So did you really not considering the fact that he's clearly interested in making sure she has a good education as a sign that he does have some interest in her welfare, or are are you intentionally ignoring it because it doesn't support your "Anthony is evil" tract? If he didn't care he wouldn't have said anything. Education and safety are a good thing, but he neglect her in regards to being a little more nurturing. And while some students do overlook the importance of schoolwork in favor of socializing, the opposite extreme is no better. Afterall, if you end up in a job where you have to interact with people to get by, then lack of confidence and being well adjusted emotion wise will certainly be a liability. Heck, part of succeeding in a job interview requires a person to be socially healthy. |
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Post by rafk on Apr 11, 2015 16:51:35 GMT
Two years of no contact whatsoever. Dick move, but not abusive. Wrong. That Anthony's wrongs are merely "dick moves" to you and Annie's faults are so heinous and deserving of punishment - while you accuse everyone else of exaggerating Anthony's faults and act like you're the objective one - demonstrates that you're either trolling or have such different values to most of us that we must just agree to disagree (and hope that you don't have anything to do with raising kids). |
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Post by sable0aria on Apr 11, 2015 17:13:29 GMT
Two years of no contact whatsoever. Dick move, but not abusive. Wrong. Abuse isn't just physically harming someone, or screaming and threatening them. Anthony completely abandoning his daughter for two years is a very clear case of emotional abuse, and neglect. |
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Post by fish on Apr 11, 2015 17:57:32 GMT
Does not make them right. Does not make them wrong either. |
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Post by creepingone on Apr 11, 2015 18:01:22 GMT
Two years of no contact whatsoever. Dick move, but not abusive. I'm glad you've said this, because I wanted to use my first post to talk about this topic. First, I'm going to quote a section of a UK government document called "Working Together to Safeguard Children", which provides guidance to teachers, social workers, doctors, nurses, and the police with regards to protecting children. This is an official government document, here is the link so you know I'm not pulling this out of my butt: www.gov.uk/government/publications/working-together-to-safeguard-children--2 According to this document, neglect is: "The persistent failure to meet a child’s basic physical and/or psychological needs, likely to result in the serious impairment of the child’s health or development. Neglect may occur during pregnancy as a result of maternal substance abuse. Once a child is born, neglect may involve a parent or carer failing to: • provide adequate food, clothing and shelter (including exclusion from home or abandonment); • protect a child from physical and emotional harm or danger; • ensure adequate supervision (including the use of inadequatecare-givers); or • ensure access to appropriate medical care or treatment. It may also include neglect of, or unresponsiveness to, a child’s basic emotional needs." (92). His actions absolutely meet the criteria for neglect, at least how the relevant civil authorities in the UK define it. Furthermore, the same document defines abuses as: "A form of maltreatment of a child. Somebody may abuse or neglect a child by inflicting harm, or by failing to act to prevent harm. Children may be abused in a family or in an institutional or community setting by those known to them or, more rarely, by others (e.g. via the internet). They may be abused by an adult or adults, or another child or children." This is what the authorities in the UK, where GC takes place, use to determine abuse. According to them, neglect is abuse. Fortunately for Anthony, the UK's criminal laws regarding child abuse are from 1933 and woefully outdated, so he'd probably avoid criminal charges for neglecting her, though the crown might try anyway. This is a real problem in the UK, I'll post some links at the end going into more detail about the negative effects that neglect has on children, and the effort to bring UK child welfare laws into the 21st century. US law on the other hand, may not be so charitable to Tony. This is a document listing US state laws and statues on child abandonment and neglect: www.ndaa.org/pdf/ncpca_statute_child_neglect_abandonment_3_07.pdf. After reading this list, I think at least the following states would be likely to charge Tony with neglect in criminal court: Arizona, Arkansas, Delaware, Hawaii, Kansas, Maine, New York, New Jersey, New Mexico, North Carolina, Oklahoma, Oregon, South Carolina, maybe Texas, Utah, Vermont, Wisconsin, Wyoming. Admittedly, the most serious criminal charges hinge on whether he know that GC is not the safest place for a young teenager. If he knew how unfit they'd be as guardians and still placed her there, and the court could prove it, he'd be looking at felony charges and prison time in several states. Whether or not he faces criminal charges, he would have lost custody of Annie long ago. Once the authorities realize that he can't be reached, the court would appoint a guardian for her, and eventually she'd end up a ward of the state. By the time Tony returns, he would have no custody rights whatsoever, and may be prohibited from contacted her directly. Any contact with Annie would be supervised by her court-appointed guardian. Given her age, he may never gain full custody before she's old enough to be emancipated. Here are those links about neglect in the UK. Sad stuff... www.actionforchildren.org.uk/media/5178586/criminal_law_and_child_neglect.pdfwww.nspcc.org.uk/preventing-abuse/child-abuse-and-neglect/neglect/So, TLDR: Abandoning a child for over 2 years is neglect. Neglect is abuse. Therefore, abandoning a child for over 2 years is abuse, not just a dick move. |
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Post by stclair on Apr 11, 2015 18:15:04 GMT
Onomatopoeia:
Does the phrase "pattern of abuse" have meaning to you?
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Post by ctso74 on Apr 11, 2015 19:00:22 GMT
One thing I noticed is that Anthony insisted Annie call him by formal classroom etiquette ("sir") but didn't return the favour (Annie, not "Ms Carver"). Is that of any significance beyond a token nod to parenthood? Not Annie but Antimony, but you are right, it feels out of character. Maybe not significant, but odd. It's definitely unprofessional, but then so much of that first interaction was unprofessional. I keep wanting to think, that Tony has ulterior motives to his action, and there's some kind of hidden story arch. But, Tom could be writing more subtly and poignant. Sometimes, people are just jerks and passive-aggressive, even if they're parents. Good people, bad people, and everyone in between. We all have so many questions about Anthony. I doubt many will be answered this chapter, if any at all. Oh, bitter-sweet joy. |
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Post by SilverbackRon on Apr 11, 2015 19:06:10 GMT
This chapter has been SO emotionally draining. I had to go back and re-read some of my favorite, more light-hearted happy chapters just to give myself that break. The first dozen pages of Threads is just so damn cute and sweet it always makes me smile. And like this chapter, we see some serious drama after that, but it get's resolved with the teamwork of our two heroines (and their favorite Fox/Wolf/Plushie/Demon). I know this is some hard stuff to go through now, for Annie and the readers, but I am confident in the future. It is the waiting that is killing me! |
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Post by ninjaraven on Apr 11, 2015 20:01:31 GMT
Onomatopoeia: Does the phrase "pattern of abuse" have meaning to you? That would need to involve a pattern. And you can't get a pattern off a single incident, and neglect-control is not a pattern either (unless it repeats itself, which we have not yet seen). I'm not saying that Tony can't be abusive, but that it's really hard to make the call one way or another off this single interaction. ------ Part of me wonders if part of the reason Tony hasn't really spoken to Annie is because of the emotional maelstrom she causes in himself. His failure to save Surma, leaving his daughter without a mother... and the fact that Annie may well die before he does. Tony became withdrawn over whether or not he liked Brinnie - what would feeling responsible for the death of his wife do? |
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Post by Onomatopoeia on Apr 11, 2015 20:14:27 GMT
Does not make them wrong either. You're right, it doesn't. They are though. Onomatopoeia: Does the phrase "pattern of abuse" have meaning to you? Does the phrase "demonization" have meaning to you? |
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Post by Knight on Apr 11, 2015 20:22:02 GMT
I hope the next page is Reynard eating Anthony.
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Post by Onomatopoeia on Apr 11, 2015 20:23:48 GMT
Preposterous. Reynard has no stomach with which to eat anything. |
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