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Post by imaginaryfriend on Apr 2, 2015 14:55:57 GMT
I somewhat hope that this *is* transformative to the comic. Since Antimony is better at making friends and influencing people than before, and she can do magic and has a cool side-job, repeating a year might give her the opportunity to blossom into an excellent delinquent character. Perhaps Anthony will succeed in separating her from Kat by and large but Antimony, being bigger and older, can now gain followers from among her classmates. Plus there's Red and the Blue one, and other cool friends to hang with. Who needs Friends-style dorms? Instead of skipping class to build robots perhaps she'll take up smoking behind the gym. She won't even need a lighter. Perhaps she'll even take up writing "Daddy knows best" on her smokes?
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Post by darlos9d on Apr 2, 2015 15:32:24 GMT
Who needs Friends-style dorms? Now that you mention it, it DOES feel silly to expect any amount of the narrative to seriously take place in that location. |
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Post by machival on Apr 2, 2015 16:33:16 GMT
I somewhat hope that this *is* transformative to the comic. Since Antimony is better at making friends and influencing people than before, and she can do magic and has a cool side-job, repeating a year might give her the opportunity to blossom into an excellent delinquent character. Perhaps Anthony will succeed in separating her from Kat by and large but Antimony, being bigger and older, can now gain followers from among her classmates. Plus there's Red and the Blue one, and other cool friends to hang with. Who needs Friends-style dorms? Instead of skipping class to build robots perhaps she'll take up smoking behind the gym. She won't even need a lighter. Perhaps she'll even take up writing "Daddy knows best" on her smokes? And then after she becomes a delinquent gang leader, perhaps she can start smuggling in drugs from the forest. Then all she needs to do is shave her head and we can get Gunnerkrig Court: Breaking Bad Student Edition. |
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Post by imaginaryfriend on Apr 2, 2015 17:04:51 GMT
I somewhat hope that this *is* transformative to the comic. Since Antimony is better at making friends and influencing people than before, and she can do magic and has a cool side-job, repeating a year might give her the opportunity to blossom into an excellent delinquent character. Perhaps Anthony will succeed in separating her from Kat by and large but Antimony, being bigger and older, can now gain followers from among her classmates. Plus there's Red and the Blue one, and other cool friends to hang with. Who needs Friends-style dorms? Instead of skipping class to build robots perhaps she'll take up smoking behind the gym. She won't even need a lighter. Perhaps she'll even take up writing "Daddy knows best" on her smokes? And then after she becomes a delinquent gang leader, perhaps she can start smuggling in drugs from the forest. Then all she needs to do is shave her head and we can get Gunnerkrig Court: Breaking Bad Student Edition. She can't go entirely Q-ball; maybe she can have a mohawk that goes way up and is on fire. And a green boyfriend who makes her father very angry. |
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Post by machival on Apr 2, 2015 17:12:46 GMT
And then after she becomes a delinquent gang leader, perhaps she can start smuggling in drugs from the forest. Then all she needs to do is shave her head and we can get Gunnerkrig Court: Breaking Bad Student Edition. She can't go entirely Q-ball; maybe she can have a mohawk that goes way up and is on fire. And a green boyfriend who makes her father very angry. With a mohawk that sticks up, she'll be a real hit at foley. |
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wlerin
Junior Member
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Post by wlerin on Apr 2, 2015 18:00:15 GMT
So, Antimony won't be in classes the rest of the day... what happened to the rest of the year? What happened to repeating year 9? He said Annie wouldn't be joining Kat in classes for the rest of the day. He didn't say Annie wouldn't be in class at all. Kat is in year-10 classes. If Annie is redoing year-9, she would probably be in year-9 classes. Right but unless she's about to repeat the entirety of year-9 in a single day, the problem remains. |
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Post by speedwell on Apr 2, 2015 18:13:16 GMT
Well, I have given up on this day ending well and Antimony going back to the dorms with a smile on her face. If she did so, Kat would probably stage an intervention.
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Post by Jelly Jellybean on Apr 2, 2015 19:01:13 GMT
If Tom has the narrative fast forward through this next year while Annie does her penance, then I am going to claim that I called it... The books always seem to come out around the holidays. :3 Kinda bummed we won't get to see the girls during the break, but I'm sure we'll hear bits and pieces. Thanks again for the great comic, Tom! I can see Tom coming back with the following one pager... Kat: "Well that Summer break was super exciting and also awesome!" Annie: "Yes, we seemed to have solved most of the Court mysteries we encountered in the last three years." Kat: "Yeah, and that thing with your Dad was completely unexpected." Annie: "Now we each have an entire school-year worth of detentions." Kat: "That we have to serve separately, as in alone and without Paz! Ugh, can we fast forward to year 11?" Annie: "Yes, let us..." End of Chapter / End of Year / Begin Next Holiday Break They didn't solve most of the Court mysteries. But Kat may end up with a year of detentions by the end of the chapter and Annie still might end up back in her original class by the beginning of year 11. I really don't expect Tom have the narrative fast forward a year, but if he does then I am saying that was close enough. |
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Post by Refugee on Apr 2, 2015 19:04:38 GMT
I'm not concerned with Anthony. I'm concerned with his arrogant daughter who, per Eglamore, "walks around like she owns the place". Who has promised Jones that she would do better--but apparently hasn't. Who has even been harshly upbraided by Reynardine.
Who has been SKIPPING OUT on her assigned detentions.
Who in THIS VERY STRIP stands there ashamed and contrite before her Father.
Who cannot look her best friend in the eye, because she knows she is very much in the wrong, and her Father is absolutely correct in his assessment.
People seem to think this is a game, that this is nothing more than a free spirited girl gleefully mocking authority and cheating on her school work because, hey, school, pfft. She's Firehead Girl, medium of Gillitie Wood and Coyote The Trickster God. What need does she have for school, or rules?
No. She is an ethereal being of deadly power, holding a crucial position as envoy from a demigod who is not entirely friendly to the human race, in a place filled with beings who are actively hostile to us.
She cannot be expelled; she needs the court's protection--which has been partially withdrawn already because of her mixed allegiance. At her stage of development, she likely needs the Court more than they need her.
I very much doubt that the Court would let her go to the Forest; they'd put her back in some dismal English industrial town, far away from where she might have any influence. They might imprison her; she'd be lucky not to get a shackle through her thigh.
Annie could well be on a path where she ends up like Zimmy. Hurting, afraid, feared, isolated.
This is deadly serious. I suspect the Court has not taken stronger actions against Annie because they were waiting for her Father to be there, to do a Father's duty, to make the issue personal, rather than taking care of it administratively.
I suspect Anthony sent Kat out of the room, not because she is suspect, but because he has things to discuss with Antimony that are private. Things, even, that Kat must not hear because they are dangerous, to her and to the court.
It's not about hurting Annie's feelings. It's not about the grades. It's not even about her cheating. It's about her honor, her integrity, her power, and the duty it entails.
That apple in the chapter frontispiece? That's Eden's apple, fruit of sin. Anthony's not the snake, tempting her. He is her guardian angel, desperately trying to keep her from taking any more bites than she already has.
He's not being randomly cruel, beating his child for kicks. He's caught her poking a fork into an electrical socket, and the pain his punishment inflicts stands in for the injury and death she will suffer if she persists.
===
I will defend Anthony directly on one point: Jones' accusation that he is "devoid of emotion". But Jones is not warning Annie against her father; she's trying to anger Annie, in order to better assess her character.
===
No, a second point: He has not isolated himself from Annie; he is connected to her etherically via a cable of bone, the one Zimmy ascended to get his attention, at what cost to him and his battles we do not yet know.
(And given the existence of that cable, it may well be that the only reason he hasn't used it to communicate with her is that she doesn't know how to receive him.)
===
Also, a warning to Kat: Little girl, do not do anything to Annie's father without consulting her first, or even your own parents. And do not think, formidable as you are, that you facing an ordinary mortal. He is older than you, harder than you, more experienced, more highly trained.
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Post by Per on Apr 2, 2015 19:48:13 GMT
He has rockets that go bwoow, crack, fffttt.
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Post by Chancellor on Apr 2, 2015 19:51:36 GMT
I'm not concerned with Anthony. I'm concerned with his arrogant daughter who, per Eglamore, "walks around like she owns the place". Who has promised Jones that she would do better--but apparently hasn't. Who has even been harshly upbraided by Reynardine. Who has been SKIPPING OUT on her assigned detentions. Who in THIS VERY STRIP stands there ashamed and contrite before her Father. Who cannot look her best friend in the eye, because she knows she is very much in the wrong, and her Father is absolutely correct in his assessment. People seem to think this is a game, that this is nothing more than a free spirited girl gleefully mocking authority and cheating on her school work because, hey, school, pfft. She's Firehead Girl, medium of Gillitie Wood and Coyote The Trickster God. What need does she have for school, or rules? No. She is an ethereal being of deadly power, holding a crucial position as envoy from a demigod who is not entirely friendly to the human race, in a place filled with beings who are actively hostile to us. She cannot be expelled; she needs the court's protection--which has been partially withdrawn already because of her mixed allegiance. At her stage of development, she likely needs the Court more than they need her. I very much doubt that the Court would let her go to the Forest; they'd put her back in some dismal English industrial town, far away from where she might have any influence. They might imprison her; she'd be lucky not to get a shackle through her thigh. Annie could well be on a path where she ends up like Zimmy. Hurting, afraid, feared, isolated. This is deadly serious. I suspect the Court has not taken stronger actions against Annie because they were waiting for her Father to be there, to do a Father's duty, to make the issue personal, rather than taking care of it administratively. I suspect Anthony sent Kat out of the room, not because she is suspect, but because he has things to discuss with Antimony that are private. Things, even, that Kat must not hear because they are dangerous, to her and to the court. It's not about hurting Annie's feelings. It's not about the grades. It's not even about her cheating. It's about her honor, her integrity, her power, and the duty it entails. That apple in the chapter frontispiece? That's Eden's apple, fruit of sin. Anthony's not the snake, tempting her. He is her guardian angel, desperately trying to keep her from taking any more bites than she already has. He's not being randomly cruel, beating his child for kicks. He's caught her poking a fork into an electrical socket, and the pain his punishment inflicts stands in for the injury and death she will suffer if she persists. === I will defend Anthony directly on one point: Jones' accusation that he is "devoid of emotion". But Jones is not warning Annie against her father; she's trying to anger Annie, in order to better assess her character. === No, a second point: He has not isolated himself from Annie; he is connected to her etherically via a cable of bone, the one Zimmy ascended to get his attention, at what cost to him and his battles we do not yet know. (And given the existence of that cable, it may well be that the only reason he hasn't used it to communicate with her is that she doesn't know how to receive him.) === Also, a warning to Kat: Little girl, do not do anything to Annie's father without consulting her first, or even your own parents. And do not think, formidable as you are, that you facing an ordinary mortal. He is older than you, harder than you, more experienced, more highly trained. If he wants to aggravate the Machine Angel and her army of devout robot followers, then who are we to stop him? |
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Post by Refugee on Apr 2, 2015 20:08:04 GMT
He has rockets that go bwoow, crack, fffttt. That's Kat's father that has those. We have no idea what Anthony's got. I will note, though, that he and Kat are both technically minded people. Kat's got talent and strength. But again: we have no idea what Anthony's got, except very likely a Father's desire to protect his daughter, his last link to her Mother. |
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Post by Refugee on Apr 2, 2015 20:14:15 GMT
If [Annie's Father] wants to aggravate the Machine Angel and her army of devout robot followers, then who are we to stop him? Flip it around: if she wants to anger her best friend's Father without consulting her, a teacher and an agent of the Court, a being of unknown power and skill, who are we to stop her? Again: I'm saying first and foremost that she should not act without Annie's consent. If Annie chooses to resist, fine. But right now, with what we know, it's none of Kat's business. (Other than offering emotional support when next she sees Annie.) It's also worth considering that the Court is probably looking at her records pretty closely as well. Kat doesn't know enough to act out of petty spite. |
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Post by antiyonder on Apr 2, 2015 22:45:14 GMT
Who cannot look her best friend in the eye, because she knows she is very much in the wrong, and her Father is absolutely correct in his assessment. True, but people can be right in some areas and wrong in other areas. At best the disagreements on the forum have been in pertaining to Anthony's character, but I haven't seen many saying or even inferring that Annie should get away with cheating. True, but isn't it possible for a parent to still go overboard in disciplining a child, even without getting into abusive territory? |
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Post by zimmyzims on Apr 2, 2015 23:15:27 GMT
Oh, the amount of absolutely forced interpretation over the plainly observable. How about the obvious reason: this separates Annie out as his daughter. But what's the point in treating her like a daughter if he's not acting (or allowing her to treat him) like a father? I also hope Kat stays and listens to their conversation. But the other students will realize that somethings up when Annie doesn't show up. I kinda hope there's a group around the corner waiting to ask Annie if she's okay and call her dad a jerkwad. The point you are not getting is (as warrl noted too) that in role of teacher he is exactly the one wrong teacher to do this, the one for whom this would be completely strange. I'm not sure how you do not get it. I couldn't just go and make a student who has never been my student to repeat a year. However, Annie is not adult, so any this kind of things should be at least discussed with her legal guardian, and that Anthony is. See, I agree with you that Tony's the wrong teacher to do this, but I also think it's inappropriate as a parent. A parent shouldn't have the ability to hold their kid back, and a teacher should not be able to hold a kid back if they haven't taught them. I think if this was decided upon by the court, the news should have been delivered by someone who taught Annie previously, or perhaps by the headmaster or Jones. 1) There's definitely no appropriate way not to hold Annie back when she has not factually accomplished the wide majority of the courses of last year or two. 2) I would like to hear why exactly the parent, in particular, should not be the one to make the decision, because where retention is possible, the final decision is usually left to the legal guardian of the underaged kid in the case that the school does not demand the student to repeat a year - of course, if the school cannot accept the student to begin the next level, then the parent may not be able to force the school's decision. |
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Post by ctso74 on Apr 2, 2015 23:43:53 GMT
She can't go entirely Q-ball; maybe she can have a mohawk that goes way up and is on fire. And a green boyfriend who makes her father very angry. With a mohawk that sticks up, she'll be a real hit at foley. She'll wear her jacket over her shoulders, a sarashi, and a surgical mask. She'll carry a bokken, which she'll make burst into flames, when she's angry... Actually, that sounds pretty awesome. |
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Post by AnUpliftedCuttlefish on Apr 3, 2015 1:08:06 GMT
But what's the point in treating her like a daughter if he's not acting (or allowing her to treat him) like a father? I kinda hope there's a group around the corner waiting to ask Annie if she's okay and call her dad a jerkwad. See, I agree with you that Tony's the wrong teacher to do this, but I also think it's inappropriate as a parent. A parent shouldn't have the ability to hold their kid back, and a teacher should not be able to hold a kid back if they haven't taught them. I think if this was decided upon by the court, the news should have been delivered by someone who taught Annie previously, or perhaps by the headmaster or Jones. 1) There's definitely no appropriate way not to hold Annie back when she has not factually accomplished the wide majority of the courses of last year or two. 2) I would like to hear why exactly the parent, in particular, should not be the one to make the decision, because where retention is possible, the final decision is usually left to the legal guardian of the underaged kid in the case that the school does not demand the student to repeat a year - of course, if the school cannot accept the student to begin the next level, then the parent may not be able to force the school's decision. Technically there are appropriate ways to avoid it, if it isn't the most suitable course of action (hence even cheating policies usually having options). Which is why, for both point 1 & 2, the school, the parent/guardian, and the child should be involved in the process - the ultimate goal being what's best for the child academically, and developmentally. If they are to be made repeat the year it needs to be because it will be best for them, not simply because they are being punished. That one hasn't factually completed the entirety of one's studies for a period isn't necessarily a barrier to going on, since in different circumstances it's quite possible to skip assessment levels based on ability & potential (gifted students, absent students etc). If Antimony, or a RL student, can manage their current year's work without cheating, then making them repeat is pointless - and unfair to others, as well potentially damaging to the student in question*. If they couldn't handle it, it could be a valid option. But, yes, - parents have a lot of power when it comes to whether a child progress or not, when that's given as an option (regardless of whether they have cheated or not). I've never heard of a school where they get to change records though - "Ive... subtracted every instance of plagiarism from your overall evaluation". They might be able to demand that, but it's really a school only thing - which adds to the shadiness of all this, since Anthony seems to be acting unilaterally - with the authority of the school, and as a parent. * Why it's increasingly avoided in many places - that it can affect the student mentally/emotionally in a negative fashion, and doesn't necessarily improve their academic ability either. If not done away with all together (most recent example being a number of Australian states that implanted a "no grade retention" policy). |
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Post by kelantar on Apr 3, 2015 1:21:39 GMT
But what's the point in treating her like a daughter if he's not acting (or allowing her to treat him) like a father? I kinda hope there's a group around the corner waiting to ask Annie if she's okay and call her dad a jerkwad. See, I agree with you that Tony's the wrong teacher to do this, but I also think it's inappropriate as a parent. A parent shouldn't have the ability to hold their kid back, and a teacher should not be able to hold a kid back if they haven't taught them. I think if this was decided upon by the court, the news should have been delivered by someone who taught Annie previously, or perhaps by the headmaster or Jones. 1) There's definitely no appropriate way not to hold Annie back when she has not factually accomplished the wide majority of the courses of last year or two. 2) I would like to hear why exactly the parent, in particular, should not be the one to make the decision, because where retention is possible, the final decision is usually left to the legal guardian of the underaged kid in the case that the school does not demand the student to repeat a year - of course, if the school cannot accept the student to begin the next level, then the parent may not be able to force the school's decision. Final decision. Not whole process. |
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Post by todd on Apr 3, 2015 1:31:45 GMT
[pGoing back through the chapters, I can barely find any instance of Annie sitting in her classroom in the last 20 chapters. We see the dorms a tiny bit more often, but most of the time we see her in the forest, at Kat's lab, or just hanging around somewhere at GC. 99% of the story happens during the kid's free time. So even if she's in another class, I doubt that will have such a huge impact on the story. As long as Annie keeps hanging out with her friends after class, we will see them as often as we used to. I have the suspicion that Anthony's likely to make Annie spend all her time out of class studying hard and forbid all extra-curricular activities - and will have the means to enforce it. Most likely (if this change doesn't get undone by the end of the chapter), Annie's going to be off-stage for a long while, and need a replacement for her role in the story. (And Tom's done several Annie-lite chapters already. Maybe her removal won't be so difficult for him and his story as we might think.) |
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Post by psybershadow on Apr 3, 2015 2:01:31 GMT
I wonder if Surma worked on anything etherically related with Anthony like Donald and Anja worked together. It would be really interesting to know if he'd worked with Surma on those bone things at one point and what they were originally meant to do.
Edit: What if he researched human anatomy to find out how ether works scientifically, kind of like how Zimmy's brain is?
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Post by Refugee on Apr 3, 2015 2:12:55 GMT
Edit: What if he researched human anatomy to find out how ether works scientifically, kind of like how Zimmy's brain is? [Gasps in horror] Zimmy's one of his failed experiments! |
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Post by psybershadow on Apr 3, 2015 2:34:37 GMT
Edit: What if he researched human anatomy to find out how ether works scientifically, kind of like how Zimmy's brain is? [Gasps in horror] Zimmy's one of his failed experiments! I love that idea event though it's pretty much guaranteed to not be the case based on previous information. |
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Post by imaginaryfriend on Apr 3, 2015 7:23:46 GMT
With a mohawk that sticks up, she'll be a real hit at foley. She'll wear her jacket over her shoulders, a sarashi, and a surgical mask. She'll carry a bokken, which she'll make burst into flames, when she's angry... Actually, that sounds pretty awesome. And she'll have her own private pad away from the dorms, apparently. How cool can one girl get? |
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Post by zimmyzims on Apr 3, 2015 10:45:59 GMT
I'm not concerned with Anthony. I'm concerned with his arrogant daughter who, per Eglamore, "walks around like she owns the place". Who has promised Jones that she would do better--but apparently hasn't. Who has even been harshly upbraided by Reynardine. Who has been SKIPPING OUT on her assigned detentions. Who in THIS VERY STRIP stands there ashamed and contrite before her Father. Who cannot look her best friend in the eye, because she knows she is very much in the wrong, and her Father is absolutely correct in his assessment. People seem to think this is a game, that this is nothing more than a free spirited girl gleefully mocking authority and cheating on her school work because, hey, school, pfft. She's Firehead Girl, medium of Gillitie Wood and Coyote The Trickster God. What need does she have for school, or rules? No. She is an ethereal being of deadly power, holding a crucial position as envoy from a demigod who is not entirely friendly to the human race, in a place filled with beings who are actively hostile to us. She cannot be expelled; she needs the court's protection--which has been partially withdrawn already because of her mixed allegiance. At her stage of development, she likely needs the Court more than they need her. I very much doubt that the Court would let her go to the Forest; they'd put her back in some dismal English industrial town, far away from where she might have any influence. They might imprison her; she'd be lucky not to get a shackle through her thigh. Annie could well be on a path where she ends up like Zimmy. Hurting, afraid, feared, isolated. This is deadly serious. I suspect the Court has not taken stronger actions against Annie because they were waiting for her Father to be there, to do a Father's duty, to make the issue personal, rather than taking care of it administratively. I suspect Anthony sent Kat out of the room, not because she is suspect, but because he has things to discuss with Antimony that are private. Things, even, that Kat must not hear because they are dangerous, to her and to the court. It's not about hurting Annie's feelings. It's not about the grades. It's not even about her cheating. It's about her honor, her integrity, her power, and the duty it entails. That apple in the chapter frontispiece? That's Eden's apple, fruit of sin. Anthony's not the snake, tempting her. He is her guardian angel, desperately trying to keep her from taking any more bites than she already has. He's not being randomly cruel, beating his child for kicks. He's caught her poking a fork into an electrical socket, and the pain his punishment inflicts stands in for the injury and death she will suffer if she persists. === I will defend Anthony directly on one point: Jones' accusation that he is "devoid of emotion". But Jones is not warning Annie against her father; she's trying to anger Annie, in order to better assess her character. === No, a second point: He has not isolated himself from Annie; he is connected to her etherically via a cable of bone, the one Zimmy ascended to get his attention, at what cost to him and his battles we do not yet know. (And given the existence of that cable, it may well be that the only reason he hasn't used it to communicate with her is that she doesn't know how to receive him.) === Also, a warning to Kat: Little girl, do not do anything to Annie's father without consulting her first, or even your own parents. And do not think, formidable as you are, that you facing an ordinary mortal. He is older than you, harder than you, more experienced, more highly trained. This sums up much of what I think too. There is this sense that people absolutely condemning Anthony and forgiving Annie for anything are reading this as a "girl book", a story situating in a school and telling about some adolescent girls they can relate with. That is one way to see this, but it certainly leaves out much of the under currents and even surface streams of the story. We will see what this mostly is about, but I strongly emphasize the "epic story" perspective to GKC, as it seems to me that you do as well, and from that point of view, Annie is above all a half fire-elemental meddling in a long drift between opposed forces that are under the surface confronting each other and possibly approaching a great outright conflict. Exactly, Anthony almost definitely must be involved with something dangerous there, and has clearly not abandoned Annie, but tried to pull a massive manoeuvre to do... just what, we do not know, but its main focus was Annie, for sure. If he is involved in Court-Forest battle, then he should most certainly reckon that Annie has at least great potential to play a role in this as well, and as you say, it may be an extremely dangerous role. But from that point of view exactly I want to make a note about "Annie being dangerous". It is in line with the "prophecy" that we support that Annie would engage stronger with the Gillitie Forest and indeed become dangerous to the people of the Court, ready to kill them. So, I'd suspect that while Anthony may try to prevent that (today's page suggests he does), which is probably wise, the cover page of treatise 6 that we are reading now suggests that she is falling to the side of the Forest, and Anthony's intervention this early might separate her not only from Kat but also from her father. I expect her to escape to the Forest at some point. Just based on the cover and its complete consistency with the prophecy supported by so many signs (and essentially being thus far the only 'whole storyline' to which I have been able to fit the events of the comic coherently). |
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Post by zimmyzims on Apr 3, 2015 10:47:32 GMT
1) There's definitely no appropriate way not to hold Annie back when she has not factually accomplished the wide majority of the courses of last year or two. 2) I would like to hear why exactly the parent, in particular, should not be the one to make the decision, because where retention is possible, the final decision is usually left to the legal guardian of the underaged kid in the case that the school does not demand the student to repeat a year - of course, if the school cannot accept the student to begin the next level, then the parent may not be able to force the school's decision. Final decision. Not whole process. And as in this case, it was the final decision, not the whole process. So I don't see what's your problem. |
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Post by zimmyzims on Apr 3, 2015 11:44:15 GMT
1) There's definitely no appropriate way not to hold Annie back when she has not factually accomplished the wide majority of the courses of last year or two. 2) I would like to hear why exactly the parent, in particular, should not be the one to make the decision, because where retention is possible, the final decision is usually left to the legal guardian of the underaged kid in the case that the school does not demand the student to repeat a year - of course, if the school cannot accept the student to begin the next level, then the parent may not be able to force the school's decision. Technically there are appropriate ways to avoid it, if it isn't the most suitable course of action (hence even cheating policies usually having options). Which is why, for both point 1 & 2, the school, the parent/guardian, and the child should be involved in the process - the ultimate goal being what's best for the child academically, and developmentally. If they are to be made repeat the year it needs to be because it will be best for them, not simply because they are being punished. That one hasn't factually completed the entirety of one's studies for a period isn't necessarily a barrier to going on, since in different circumstances it's quite possible to skip assessment levels based on ability & potential (gifted students, absent students etc). If Antimony, or a RL student, can manage their current year's work without cheating, then making them repeat is pointless - and unfair to others, as well potentially damaging to the student in question*. If they couldn't handle it, it could be a valid option. But, yes, - parents have a lot of power when it comes to whether a child progress or not, when that's given as an option (regardless of whether they have cheated or not). I've never heard of a school where they get to change records though - "Ive... subtracted every instance of plagiarism from your overall evaluation". They might be able to demand that, but it's really a school only thing - which adds to the shadiness of all this, since Anthony seems to be acting unilaterally - with the authority of the school, and as a parent. * Why it's increasingly avoided in many places - that it can affect the student mentally/emotionally in a negative fashion, and doesn't necessarily improve their academic ability either. If not done away with all together (most recent example being a number of Australian states that implanted a "no grade retention" policy). You are confusing just so many things here... You are hypothesizing case that is much better than Antimony's: 1) Antimony has not just "not completed the entirety of one's studies for a period", but has precisely completed almost none of her studies for two years now, only two courses being such that she has legitimately passed; 2) it is not that she has been allowed "to skip assessment levels based on ability", which would be the case if she had enough skills and knoweldges to just pass the levels without teaching), but that she cheated her way through them, because she has been unable to pull through her studies; 3) following point 2, it is not that she'd be already able to work on higher level, but on the contrary, it has been suggested that she lacks the level of knowledge the others have acquired even on subjects that she has passed legitimately, let alone on the others in which she has not been even able to manage the work of lower levels than the one that her friends are entering. Year repetition can be pointless in some cases, but try to stick to Annie's case. Try to focus on her reality. She is being brought one year back, and even then she must work extra hard in order to pass that. And with regard to her case, it is a pretty far out claim that making her repeat a year would be unfair to other kids. About advantages and disadvantages of year repetition: There are states that do not accept repeating years, yet many of the countries that do the best in the evaluation of learning do accept retention, a good example being the Nordic countries, where year repetition is in use (but used less than in many other places, apparently due to greater society wide socio-economic equality relative to countries, such as those in Central and Southern Europe, where grade repetition is not very uncommon (where over 20% of students repeat at least one year)). Many studies support that there is no general damaging effect of the year repetition, but that it is very case-sensitive: usually the students who repeat years just tend to be worse off as adults whether they repeat it or not, for third reasons, but if they are not simply worse off in the first place but have just developed slower, or have missed a year - let alone cheated through 2 years! - then they can be better off because they can take their time to develop and don't have to rush forward to struggle with subject matter they really cannot handle. Indeed, many educational studies currently suggest that it would be beneficial to arrange education so that students do not advance by their age, but by the level of their learning, so that those who develop earlier can advance faster and those who need more time can get more time. It is another piece of very conservative and non thought out educational philosophy from you that school graduation is about time spent in the school (so that everybody goes through same time in school so nobody is left behind their age group) and not on their learning (so that everybody would advance the levels in their pace, effectively some then lagging behind the students of same age). I can understand, quite many, especially students who do not take studying seriously, look at school as a social environment where they meet their friends. From educational point of view, however, it is the place where they should learn, and just making kids hang in school some defined number of years does not as such advance their learning. It is likely the stigma of grade retention that causes the damage, rather than taking an extra year to accomplish one's studies in a way that one actually learns the subject matter - as well as some work ethics! Annie is not likely a case who has to repeat because of her social status, her father being a doctor and a teacher. Rather she has neglected her school work and could benefit significantly of actually making it with some help. Then, you make absolutely strange notes about subtraction of "every instance of plagiarism". This is pretty straight forward: what he did was that he re-counted her whole performances by subtracting the points she got by cheating so that instead of just making her pass the whole years again or expelling her, they can adjust her year repetition according to what she has cheated her way through. Nowhere is it said that this is not in agreement with the school, quite the contrary, as it is the school that appears to have informed Anthony about it and thus is clearly looking to act. Anthony's method, while enforcing the idea that a year repetition is necessary, reduces the extent of repetition to what she actually has to repeat instead of making her go through the whole year again. |
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Post by kelantar on Apr 3, 2015 14:08:02 GMT
Final decision. Not whole process. And as in this case, it was the final decision, not the whole process. So I don't see what's your problem. He makes it quite clear that he was responsible for this whole audit. If the court was the power making this decision, they would have already made it. Besides, Anthony makes it quite clear that the Court was quite content with letting Annie go with no consequences, but he felt it was unacceptable. And if Anthony has been back long enough to review ALL of Annie's work and arrange all of this with the court, there's no excuse for him not contacting his daughter and arranging this meeting before school started. |
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Post by antiyonder on Apr 3, 2015 19:14:40 GMT
Funny thing about extremism. It's wrong to employ no matter which side of the debate one is on. |
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Post by zimmyzims on Apr 3, 2015 20:03:35 GMT
And as in this case, it was the final decision, not the whole process. So I don't see what's your problem. He makes it quite clear that he was responsible for this whole audit. He makes it 100% clear that the process was started by the court while the decision about her retention was finally made by him. |
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Post by kelantar on Apr 3, 2015 20:42:19 GMT
He makes it quite clear that he was responsible for this whole audit. He makes it 100% clear that the process was started by the court while the decision about her retention was finally made by him. The only thing he said about the court was that the court knew about it (and presumably was not going to punish her, seeing as how they allowed her to finish out the year and move into the new dorms and everything), then he said "I will not let it stand", "I've examined all of your work", and "I have made arrangements for you to repeat year 9". |
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