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Post by nero on Apr 1, 2015 20:08:03 GMT
I also hope Kat stays and listens to their conversation. But the other students will realize that somethings up when Annie doesn't show up.
I really want to hear what Anthony has to say to Annie about Surma's death. Knowing his thoughts about Annie and her fire elemental side would help us know if he cares for her.
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Post by zimmyzims on Apr 1, 2015 20:12:36 GMT
Oh, the amount of absolutely forced interpretation over the plainly observable. How about the obvious reason: this separates Annie out as his daughter. I would agree with you had he not insisted that she call him "sir". "The point is, with Tony, the smallest thing can carry the greatest weight." - Mr. Donlan (http://gunnerkrigg.com/?p=1014) That was during the class where he addressed her as her teacher (and expected her to address him as as her teacher). This is after it, and he is addressing her as her father. He wouldn't be the first parent to demand that form of address. That is true. We have barely seen Antimony interact with him verbally before now, so it is possible that he always expects that. But she also almost calls him "father" in class (pausing out of perhaps a mix of uncertainty, shock, and embarrassment) and does call him "father" when he calls her at the end of chapter 36; if it was his expectation that she call him "sir", I doubt she would have gotten it 'wrong' both times. And again the obvious is that it is not wrong the first time, but right, and would be right again, having only been wrong during the formal situation of the lesson. Now it is all relaxed and she can call him daddy, I mean, father. By the way: while Jimmy jims and other teachers call all students by their last name, and as you can witness, this goes the other way round, I wonder whether Donlans call Kat "Miss Donlan" either. Would sound more than a fair bit ridiculous. |
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Post by kalechibki on Apr 1, 2015 20:22:33 GMT
That post in conjunction with your avatar is a little...ominous I've had that same thought for every post Nepycros has had since Anthony's reappearance... Perhaps instead you'd rather an avatar featuring her actually leaving?  No, no, no. Please keep on burning things ^_^ |
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Post by juxander on Apr 1, 2015 20:42:33 GMT
I would agree with you had he not insisted that she call him "sir". "The point is, with Tony, the smallest thing can carry the greatest weight." - Mr. Donlan (http://gunnerkrigg.com/?p=1014) That was during the class where he addressed her as her teacher (and expected her to address him as as her teacher). This is after it, and he is addressing her as her father. I may be over-reading into his choice to call her by her first name and others by their last. It stood out to me. I read it in the context of him unnecessarily insulting her makeup, stating that she was the one who had held up the class, overtly not giving her a textbook without explanation, and coldly shutting down her attempt to ask about his well-being. I don't know if that is the way he normally interacts with all students, the way he normally relates to just her, or if it is due to his specific displeasure with her re: cheating. |
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Post by The Anarch on Apr 1, 2015 20:46:57 GMT
I would agree with you had he not insisted that she call him "sir". "The point is, with Tony, the smallest thing can carry the greatest weight." - Mr. Donlan (http://gunnerkrigg.com/?p=1014) That was during the class where he addressed her as her teacher (and expected her to address him as as her teacher). This is after it, and he is addressing her as her father. Been doing my best to stay out of the Pro-Tony vs. Anti-Tony debate, but I might be able to clarify . . . I think the point is that he called her Antimony in both cases, and thus the implication is that while he demanded she treat him as a teacher in the first instance, he did not accord her the same and was treating her as his daughter during class instead of just another student. It would seem to be that he was not giving her the same respect and professionalism that he required of her. The relationship might be a one-way street in his mind. |
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Post by Vilthuril on Apr 1, 2015 20:58:12 GMT
And then he takes off his costume and it's Mort. Mort! Mort fun time! Mort Mort Mort Mort! (If I click the heels of my ruby slippers, will it make it true?) |
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Post by juxander on Apr 1, 2015 21:02:07 GMT
Been doing my best to stay out of the Pro-Tony vs. Anti-Tony debate, but I might be able to clarify . . . I think the point is that he called her Antimony in both cases, and thus the implication is that while he demanded she treat him as a teacher in the first instance, he did not accord her the same and was treating her as his daughter during class instead of just another student. It would seem to be that he was not giving her the same respect and professionalism that he required of her. The relationship might be a one-way street in his mind. Thanks, that's better-put than I was able to express it. |
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Post by zimmyzims on Apr 1, 2015 21:21:19 GMT
That was during the class where he addressed her as her teacher (and expected her to address him as as her teacher). This is after it, and he is addressing her as her father. Been doing my best to stay out of the Pro-Tony vs. Anti-Tony debate, but I might be able to clarify . . . I think the point is that he called her Antimony in both cases, and thus the implication is that while he demanded she treat him as a teacher in the first instance, he did not accord her the same and was treating her as his daughter during class instead of just another student. It would seem to be that he was not giving her the same respect and professionalism that he required of her. The relationship might be a one-way street in his mind. I still wonder if you have any teacher calling his/her children by their last name in school. It sounds just so ridiculous. Much less so the other way round. We have not, as far as I can remember, witnessed Donlans addressing Kat in school (or the other way round). Anyway, the point is, I think he separates her as a daughter in that way, but keeps the formality in the class situation (hence he's not "father). That he speaks to her as a father to daughter here is given in the expressions of disappointment with school work done for other teachers, and obviously, " my daughter's activities". |
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Post by youwiththeface on Apr 1, 2015 21:30:26 GMT
Been doing my best to stay out of the Pro-Tony vs. Anti-Tony debate, but I might be able to clarify . . . I think the point is that he called her Antimony in both cases, and thus the implication is that while he demanded she treat him as a teacher in the first instance, he did not accord her the same and was treating her as his daughter during class instead of just another student. It would seem to be that he was not giving her the same respect and professionalism that he required of her. The relationship might be a one-way street in his mind. I still wonder if you have any teacher calling his/her children by their last name in school. It sounds just so ridiculous. Much less so the other way round. We have not, as far as I can remember, witnessed Donlans addressing Kat in school (or the other way round). Anyway, the point is, I think he separates her as a daughter in that way, but keeps the formality in the class situation (hence he's not "father). That he speaks to her as a father to daughter here is given in the expressions of disappointment with school work done for other teachers, and obviously, " my daughter's activities". It doesn't really matter if it sounds silly or not. (Believe me when I say that in my experience that is never a detriment for a school, if they're even aware of it in the first place.) What matters is if it's consistently used school policy, or just another way for Anthony to single Annie out. I'd also say that the talk between them was extremely impersonal and gives absolutely no clue the two are related and it isn't just a teacher with high standards confronting one of his students. |
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Post by The Anarch on Apr 1, 2015 21:34:18 GMT
I still wonder if you have any teacher calling his/her children by their last name in school. It sounds just so ridiculous. Much less so the other way round. It does happen. What may sound ridiculous to us may not sound ridiculous to others, after all, and Anthony does seem like just the proper stuffed-shirt type that would do so. My personal experience has been that the Mr. or Ms. Last Name is usually only trotted out when a teacher is unhappy with a student and is trying to reinforce just how serious the situation is, but given that Anthony seems to be Serious Face all the time on top of the fact that he has been discussing serious matter with Annie both as a teacher then and as a parent now, his use of "Antimony" rather than "Ms. Carver" in the earlier case does seem a bit conspicuous. But the point I think other folks have been trying to make is that he also seems to be speaking to her as father to daughter earlier during class as well in the way he was singling her out. If he had been shown being as harsh or even just somewhat as harsh with any of the other students in any other way than wearing them down with particularly difficult schoolwork, it almost certainly wouldn't have come off that way. But she's the only one he treats in such a manner, so it does. |
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Post by Señor Goose on Apr 1, 2015 21:44:05 GMT
Damn, the timing of this update made me hope that this page would be Anthony going "just kidding!" and they all laugh and hug and there's a freeze frame high five and dammit.
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Post by pendell on Apr 1, 2015 21:55:30 GMT
Stupid UK culture question: Is part of the reason Tony refers to Cat as "Ms. Donlan" because, being a Brit of the old school, he hasn't been given her permission to use her first name? And that he can call Antimony by her first name because, as her father, he's the one who gave her that name in the first place?
Respectfully,
Brian P.
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wlerin
Junior Member
Posts: 62
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Post by wlerin on Apr 1, 2015 22:10:17 GMT
So, Antimony won't be in classes the rest of the day... what happened to the rest of the year? What happened to repeating year 9?
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Post by AnUpliftedCuttlefish on Apr 1, 2015 22:22:52 GMT
I would agree with you had he not insisted that she call him "sir". He wouldn't be the first parent to demand that form of address. Indeed. I'm reminded of Microsat 5 where Antimony muses on just hearing other people referring to him by name makes him seem like a person, as opposed to "father". He might have just progressed to "sir" now. I'm STILL waiting for Anthony to say something like "and now listen carefully, because i don't have much time". I mean... look, he even did everything to make sure no one- even Kat- is listening! Not only listening, no one might expect Annie to be anywhere soon. But if he wants to spend some time with her, why didn't he just invite her on a holiday trip? If he's under some form of observation, I don't know why the listeners would stop now (or how he'd know they had). If the only people he was trying to dissuade from listening further were just one's lingering in the hallway - well, I still think just shutting the door would have been more effective and less hurtful. It's a pretty cruel "get them alone so I can speech to them honestly" setup from Anthony, if that's the case. He could have just poisoned her yoghurt, or something outlandish like that. Been doing my best to stay out of the Pro-Tony vs. Anti-Tony debate, but I might be able to clarify . . . I think the point is that he called her Antimony in both cases, and thus the implication is that while he demanded she treat him as a teacher in the first instance, he did not accord her the same and was treating her as his daughter during class instead of just another student. It would seem to be that he was not giving her the same respect and professionalism that he required of her. The relationship might be a one-way street in his mind. I still wonder if you have any teacher calling his/her children by their last name in school. It sounds just so ridiculous. Much less so the other way round. We have not, as far as I can remember, witnessed Donlans addressing Kat in school (or the other way round). Anyway, the point is, I think he separates her as a daughter in that way, but keeps the formality in the class situation (hence he's not "father). That he speaks to her as a father to daughter here is given in the expressions of disappointment with school work done for other teachers, and obviously, " my daughter's activities". It's probably just one of the many reasons why schools, if they have the option, seem to try and avoid having classes where a student's teacher is also their parent (signs of favoritism, potential conflicts of interest, or separating students out for reasons other than merit generally aren't encouraged). And empathizes, if that's the case, how questionably Anthony has handled his reentry into Antimony's life. We've already established in the past he was distant, and Antimony didn't really know how he thought. Now she has to contend with knowing if he's talking to her as a daughter, or a teacher, or both, since he's offered little indication the two are separate so far - his admonishment regarding her makeup seemed to have a lot of parent, for example, and his threat to Kat seemed very teacher-ish. Could she call him father now, or should it still be sir? But I do agree his capacity at this moment is parent, as I noted when I objected to calling this a hearing, since he shouldn't have this authority as a teacher. |
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Post by zimmyzims on Apr 1, 2015 22:27:09 GMT
I still wonder if you have any teacher calling his/her children by their last name in school. It sounds just so ridiculous. Much less so the other way round. It does happen. What may sound ridiculous to us may not sound ridiculous to others, after all, and Anthony does seem like just the proper stuffed-shirt type that would do so. My personal experience has been that the Mr. or Ms. Last Name is usually only trotted out when a teacher is unhappy with a student and is trying to reinforce just how serious the situation is, but given that Anthony seems to be Serious Face all the time on top of the fact that he has been discussing serious matter with Annie both as a teacher then and as a parent now, his use of "Antimony" rather than "Ms. Carver" in the earlier case does seem a bit conspicuous. As shown in examples, this is not the case of GKC, where that is the usual habit of addressing the students in any teaching situation. Only Jones (and Kat's mom, at least sometimes) seems to be constantly using the first names, I don't know why. But the point I think other folks have been trying to make is that he also seems to be speaking to her as father to daughter earlier during class as well in the way he was singling her out. If he had been shown being as harsh or even just somewhat as harsh with any of the other students in any other way than wearing them down with particularly difficult schoolwork, it almost certainly wouldn't have come off that way. But she's the only one he treats in such a manner, so it does. However, there is a clear change of the manner he speaks. Before, it is just the school formalities, and now, it is his personal feelings about his daughter's misbehaviour. I still wonder if you have any teacher calling his/her children by their last name in school. It sounds just so ridiculous. Much less so the other way round. We have not, as far as I can remember, witnessed Donlans addressing Kat in school (or the other way round). Anyway, the point is, I think he separates her as a daughter in that way, but keeps the formality in the class situation (hence he's not "father). That he speaks to her as a father to daughter here is given in the expressions of disappointment with school work done for other teachers, and obviously, " my daughter's activities". It doesn't really matter if it sounds silly or not. (Believe me when I say that in my experience that is never a detriment for a school, if they're even aware of it in the first place.) What matters is if it's consistently used school policy, or just another way for Anthony to single Annie out. I'd also say that the talk between them was extremely impersonal and gives absolutely no clue the two are related and it isn't just a teacher with high standards confronting one of his students. I 100% disagree with this. There's a massive personal engagement in this talk with clear references to the work he has done because it is his daughter - he has not taught a single lesson in the school to her, and would not be in the position to give such a talk to any of his other students anyway, let alone that he would do that work for them and express "disappointment" (which would make little sense due to lack of any relation that is needed to establish expectations). He is clearly here as Annie's legal guardian, and if he was not, then the legal guardian of the given student (seen that they're underaged) should be informed - the school, in fact, has only ever needed to inform him about the "activities" of his daughter and discuss the actions with him in the first place, and now he can discuss that with Annie. If he was in a teacher role here, this would not make sense. I also do not half buy the idea that school policy would be "normally" or "if it is to be just" extended so that teacher parents address their children as strangers. I cannot imagine a place where that would happen... except for the army. Anyway, there is no such consistent policy, as aside from Jones also Mrs. Donlan calls all the kids by their first name, whereas everybody else seems to use last names. The other way round, to let the children address the teachers as parents would give them a privileged position, and as again "Mr. Carver" would be very odd for a person in the same family, "Sir" is the obvious choice. In the current situation, however, I'd expect Annie to address Anthony as "father" and will be surprised if she calls him "sir", let alone if Anthony corrects her to address him as "sir". It's probably just one of the many reasons why schools, if they have the option, seem to try and avoid having classes where a student's teacher is also their parent (signs of favoritism, potential conflicts of interest, or separating students out for reasons other than merit generally aren't encouraged). And empathizes, if that's the case, how questionably Anthony has handled his reentry into Antimony's life. We've already established in the past he was distant, and Antimony didn't really know how he thought. Now she has to contend with knowing if he's talking to her as a daughter, or a teacher, or both, since he's offered little indication the two are separate so far - his admonishment regarding her makeup seemed to have a lot of parent, for example, and his threat to Kat seemed very teacher-ish. Could she call him father now, or should it still be sir? But I do agree his capacity at this moment is parent, as I noted when I objected to calling this a hearing, since he shouldn't have this authority as a teacher. True, this is an odd situation in the first place, but not in GKC, it seems, as their teachers seem to keep the kids in the school and teach them there. |
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Post by zimmyzims on Apr 1, 2015 22:28:08 GMT
So, Antimony won't be in classes the rest of the day... what happened to the rest of the year? What happened to repeating year 9? May start later, or may be a sign that this is about something very else than her actually repeating the year 9 (hopefully, and I'd say probably is). |
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Post by warrl on Apr 1, 2015 23:37:46 GMT
I would agree with you had he not insisted that she call him "sir". He wouldn't be the first parent to demand that form of address. In particular he wouldn't be the first parent to demand that form of address from their own children when the parent is functioning as schoolteacher rather than parent - with the same expectation for all the other students. He wouldn't even be the first GOOD parent... if he were a good parent. That was during the class where he addressed her as her teacher (and expected her to address him as as her teacher). This is after it, and he is addressing her as her father. Been doing my best to stay out of the Pro-Tony vs. Anti-Tony debate, but I might be able to clarify . . . I think the point is that he called her Antimony in both cases, and thus the implication is that while he demanded she treat him as a teacher in the first instance, he did not accord her the same and was treating her as his daughter during class instead of just another student. It would seem to be that he was not giving her the same respect and professionalism that he required of her. The relationship might be a one-way street in his mind. There is a blatant inconsistency in his using "Antimony" versus "Miss Donlan", both while speaking as a teacher. However, we have only the one instance of him referring to someone other than his daughter by name, and that's not enough to hang a pattern on. There are other possible explanations. For example, Miss Donlan did somewhat rudely butt into the conversation, and he might be scolding her for that. Can't (yet?) justly add this onto the list of reasons why we don't like him... not that said list really needs to be any longer, we have plenty of reasons already. So, Antimony won't be in classes the rest of the day... what happened to the rest of the year? What happened to repeating year 9? He said Annie wouldn't be joining Kat in classes for the rest of the day. He didn't say Annie wouldn't be in class at all. Kat is in year-10 classes. If Annie is redoing year-9, she would probably be in year-9 classes. |
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Post by youwiththeface on Apr 1, 2015 23:45:51 GMT
I 100% disagree with this. There's a massive personal engagement in this talk with clear references to the work he has done because it is his daughter - he has not taught a single lesson in the school to her, and would not be in the position to give such a talk to any of his other students anyway, let alone that he would do that work for them and express "disappointment" (which would make little sense due to lack of any relation that is needed to establish expectations). He is clearly here as Annie's legal guardian, and if he was not, then the legal guardian of the given student (seen that they're underaged) should be informed - the school, in fact, has only ever needed to inform him about the "activities" of his daughter and discuss the actions with him in the first place, and now he can discuss that with Annie. If he was in a teacher role here, this would not make sense. I...honestly don't get what you're saying here. He just got here so he can't come off as a teacher and not a father? And if he was a in a teacher role this wouldn't make sense? Why? Teachers have conversations with students all the time about their work. To warn them that they're failing or at least doing poorly. A lot of teachers will pass out or post progress reports instead of talking to a kid directly, but it's certainly not an uncommon thing for an instructor to choose to do. And a teacher can be disappointed in a student, even if he hasn't been there long. He could be disappointed in Kat 'cause he knew her parents and expected a kid of theirs to do better. He could be disappointed in a student he didn't know because he had access to their records and saw they'd previously done better. That line alone doesn't make it seem more like a father or daughter talking, and even if it did, the overall tone of the conversation would tell me more than the words individually would. The sweetest, most encouraging platitudes in the world can be said sarcastically. And the whole tone of that conversation is frigidly professional on his side. I don't know about the Court, but it's not unlikely at all. Schools get to decide if they want that to be their policy, and some of them do. |
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Post by psybershadow on Apr 2, 2015 0:33:56 GMT
I doubt that *Tom* will allow the situation to go on for long, since Anthony's sentence means too many problems for the story. Annie would have to be transferred to a class full of new characters who'd need to be given names and characterizations - while the original classmates (including Kat) would now be compelled to be almost always off-stage. Not to mention that, under Anthony's new regime, it's unlikely that Annie will be allowed to do anything other than study - which means that the variety of stories and story-threads will now be unusable. The only solution, short of undoing this, would be to temporarily drop Annie from "Gunnerkrigg Court" and have Kat be promoted to full-protagonist, with Paz becoming the new etheric girl in the partnership - and even that would be awkward. Short of Tom not thinking out the implications before he wrote these past few pages (and then realizing that he's written himself into a corner - but too late for that), I think that, from the point of view of story-necessity, this state of affairs won't last. Keep in mind that, like Red and the others, Antimony can slip out etherically. Not only that but maybe she'll end up needing to sneak out of the court sometimes? |
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Post by warrl on Apr 2, 2015 0:52:24 GMT
I...honestly don't get what you're saying here. He just got here so he can't come off as a teacher and not a father? And if he was a in a teacher role this wouldn't make sense? Why? Teachers have conversations with students all the time about their work. To warn them that they're failing or at least doing poorly. A lot of teachers will pass out or post progress reports instead of talking to a kid directly, but it's certainly not an uncommon thing for an instructor to choose to do. It would be extremely strange for a brand-new teacher to, on the first day on the job, have such a discussion with a student... about the student's performance in classes under other teachers, and explicitly excluding prior classes in the subject this new teacher teaches. Of course, it's also extremely strange that this cheating has been going on for at least two years, the Court has known about it, and no other teacher has seen fit to take the matter up directly with Antimony. It's also rather strange for two students to routinely get identical wrong answers, and the school not need to do any sort of investigation at all - how do THEY know that Katrina wasn't copying from Antimony? (Yes, WE know...) For that matter, the Court agreed to put Annie back in year 9, and then let Mr. C waste at least an entire hour of her class day working on a class she isn't going to be in? That's kind of odd too. I also do not half buy the idea that school policy would be "normally" or "if it is to be just" extended so that teacher parents address their children as strangers. I cannot imagine a place where that would happen... except for the army. I don't know about the Court, but it's not unlikely at all. Schools get to decide if they want that to be their policy, and some of them do. Regardless of school policy (or lack thereof) on exactly how students should address teachers, there should be a policy that each teacher be consistent in each class about how students address them. It's perfectly okay if Mr. Smith insists on being addressed as "Sir" while Mr. Jones accepts "Hey teach!". It is not okay if Mr. Smith insists (while in class) on "Sir" from every student except one who is permitted to address him as "Daddy". (It would also be okay for Mr. Smith to insist on "Sir" while teaching math, but expect some of the same students to address him as "Coach" later in the day while he's in charge of the basketball team.) And the same consistency should be expected in the other direction as well. Although circumstantial variations in how one addresses a subordinate do occur, those variations should not be based on *who* the subordinate is. On the other hand, when the situation is NOT a teacher-student conversation, and nobody present should expect it to be, those rules would not apply. |
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Post by The Anarch on Apr 2, 2015 2:50:31 GMT
My personal experience has been that the Mr. or Ms. Last Name is usually only trotted out when a teacher is unhappy with a student and is trying to reinforce just how serious the situation is As shown in examples, this is not the case of GKC, where that is the usual habit of addressing the students in any teaching situation. Only Jones (and Kat's mom, at least sometimes) seems to be constantly using the first names, I don't know why. I'm sorry, I'm having some trouble parsing this. Are you saying that there is some particular way that GKC does things, except for when it doesn't? Are you saying that Anthony can or can't do things like this because the rest of GKC does (or in some cases, does not) do the same? Regardless, I was just positing a hypothetical for a singular character (that being Tony) based on personal experience where it usually (not always) happened that way with real life teachers. It wasn't an attempt at saying that this is definitely how it is for all of the Court faculty all the time. But the point I think other folks have been trying to make is that he also seems to be speaking to her as father to daughter earlier during class as well in the way he was singling her out. If he had been shown being as harsh or even just somewhat as harsh with any of the other students in any other way than wearing them down with particularly difficult schoolwork, it almost certainly wouldn't have come off that way. But she's the only one he treats in such a manner, so it does. However, there is a clear change of the manner he speaks. Before, it is just the school formalities, and now, it is his personal feelings about his daughter's misbehaviour. That there was a change in manner, I wouldn't dispute, especially since I myself noted it in a previous post. That the former manner was just school formalities, I would not agree with at all, however, considering the exact manner in which it was meted out. That being, the aforementioned harshness and the singling out. As people have pointed out already, stating that a student's makeup looks ridiculous is not at all professional and certainly not within the purview school formalities. It is simply mean-spirited, regardless of whether or not the child in question is your daughter or a random student. Was it purely a professional thing? Well, even though the manner in which he conducted himself does rule out school formalities (I'd love to see the "you look ridiculous" paperwork for Annie's parent/teacher conference later on), I wouldn't dispute the possibility of professional feelings being the basis. But even if Anthony was not being a bad teacher for allowing his feelings as a parent influence his actions, even if it was indeed a purely teacher/student based mindset he was working from, then he was still being a bad teacher for being vindictive and petty toward a student who didn't deserve such treatment. This does not, however, erase the possibility that he was being a bad parent at the time as well. People in general tend to act different in different social situations, and it's entirely possible that Anthony would use one social situation (lots of people around) to actively humiliate his daughter while in another (the two of them alone) he would simply work to gouge at her work ethic, all because of his own parental rather than (or in combination with) professional disapproval. A change in the manner he speaks does not necessarily mean a switch from one of those modes to the other. There is the possibility that it just means he doesn't have anyone else around to use against her at the moment. But this is one of the reasons I wanted to stay out of this conversation. At the moment, it's just conjecture either way what exactly is going on in Tony's head. Maybe he was letting his feelings as a parent affect his job during class, maybe he was approaching it from a purely teacher-oriented point of view, or maybe it was a mixture of both, who knows? None of us, that's who, and all this going on about it does is lead us all around in circles without actually figuring anything out. Which, y'know, don't let me stop y'all! If it's entertainment for you, then I say go for it. I just didn't want to get mixed up in it myself and only really meant to try and clarify what some folks were trying to say. And that said, I think this is gonna be the last post I put any real thought into on the subject. Just gonna go back to making stupid jokes and posting relevant music videos. |
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Post by SilverbackRon on Apr 2, 2015 3:47:12 GMT
I really want to hear what Anthony has to say to Annie about Surma's death. Knowing his thoughts about Annie and her fire elemental side would help us know if he cares for her. I want to hear anything Anthony has to say on a personal basis. He already shot Annie down for simply asking about his hand, so I wonder if he will talk about anything personal at all. The other half of this I would like to see (No, I am not advocating violence) is for Annie to flame-on in a casual and non-threatening manner in front of her father and say "Oh hi dad, it's really good to see you again. By the way, might you tell me what you know about THIS?" With a sweet smile. EDIT - We know she can control her fire so it doesn't actually burn anything or even produce heat if she doesn't want it to, so it could be done without any danger or threat. |
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Post by Rasselas on Apr 2, 2015 5:10:59 GMT
My mother was also my teacher from grades 6 to 8. It was a small school so there was no avoiding it. I couldn't sneeze without her finding out. Which is unhealthy, kids should have that outer world space to make mistakes and skirt boundaries. Let me tell you, there have been many occasions where I felt exactly like Annie now. If I'd pulled half the shenanigans she did, I would've ended up with a similar or worse punishment and scolding. Because, what the kid does reflects on the parent. Not only socially but professionally too, in front of their colleagues and other kids' parents. It was unfair. The double-authority of parent and teacher should not be combined, it's just too harsh. Especially if your mother is the strictest teacher in school. As for manner of address, it would be "Lastname" if I messed something up, if it was a formal context like reading exam grades or checking attendance and such. Rarely she'd address me by name, but she would also address other kids by name in a more casual context. Even "Firstname, dear" and such (to other students, never to me). I had to address her as "teacher Firstname" I believe, just like everyone else. Sometimes it did feel very awkward but you had to keep to it. To note, this was not a school in Britain so British formality standards probably don't apply.  But I'm rambling, sorry. Just wanted to say, this is a good chapter. It hits proper hard, as the situation warrants. Edit: Also, the first time I had to address my mother as the teacher was about as awkward as Annie's scene - except I actually had time to prepare for it. Annie's reaction is so spot-on and natural, Tom got it exactly right. |
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Post by zimmyzims on Apr 2, 2015 7:22:41 GMT
As shown in examples, this is not the case of GKC, where that is the usual habit of addressing the students in any teaching situation. Only Jones (and Kat's mom, at least sometimes) seems to be constantly using the first names, I don't know why. I'm sorry, I'm having some trouble parsing this. Are you saying that there is some particular way that GKC does things, except for when it doesn't? Are you saying that Anthony can or can't do things like this because the rest of GKC does (or in some cases, does not) do the same? Let me clarify then: 1) I understood you said that you only see teachers addressing kids with last names because they are unhappy with students. 2) I noted that in GKC, at least, the teachers tend to address the kids by last name even when they are not unhappy with them. I leave the rest of your post be. |
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Post by zimmyzims on Apr 2, 2015 7:28:39 GMT
My mother was also my teacher from grades 6 to 8. It was a small school so there was no avoiding it. I couldn't sneeze without her finding out. Which is unhealthy, kids should have that outer world space to make mistakes and skirt boundaries. Let me tell you, there have been many occasions where I felt exactly like Annie now. If I'd pulled half the shenanigans she did, I would've ended up with a similar or worse punishment and scolding. Because, what the kid does reflects on the parent. Not only socially but professionally too, in front of their colleagues and other kids' parents. It was unfair. The double-authority of parent and teacher should not be combined, it's just too harsh. Especially if your mother is the strictest teacher in school. As for manner of address, it would be "Lastname" if I messed something up, if it was a formal context like reading exam grades or checking attendance and such. Rarely she'd address me by name, but she would also address other kids by name in a more casual context. Even "Firstname, dear" and such (to other students, never to me). I had to address her as "teacher Firstname" I believe, just like everyone else. Sometimes it did feel very awkward but you had to keep to it. To note, this was not a school in Britain so British formality standards probably don't apply. But I'm rambling, sorry. Just wanted to say, this is a good chapter. It hits proper hard, as the situation warrants. Edit: Also, the first time I had to address my mother as the teacher was about as awkward as Annie's scene - except I actually had time to prepare for it. Annie's reaction is so spot-on and natural, Tom got it exactly right. Interesting. The cultural differences are shocking. "Teacher First name" sounds about as strange as possible to me whereas either "first name" or "teacher last name" or "mister/miss last name" would all make perfect sense to me. In one country where I've gone to school, a teacher specified to me that there combining a formal title (even and in particular Miss/Mister) with first name is (close) equivalent to calling the person a prostitute. |
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Post by zimmyzims on Apr 2, 2015 7:49:24 GMT
I 100% disagree with this. There's a massive personal engagement in this talk with clear references to the work he has done because it is his daughter - he has not taught a single lesson in the school to her, and would not be in the position to give such a talk to any of his other students anyway, let alone that he would do that work for them and express "disappointment" (which would make little sense due to lack of any relation that is needed to establish expectations). He is clearly here as Annie's legal guardian, and if he was not, then the legal guardian of the given student (seen that they're underaged) should be informed - the school, in fact, has only ever needed to inform him about the "activities" of his daughter and discuss the actions with him in the first place, and now he can discuss that with Annie. If he was in a teacher role here, this would not make sense. I...honestly don't get what you're saying here. He just got here so he can't come off as a teacher and not a father? And if he was a in a teacher role this wouldn't make sense? Why? Teachers have conversations with students all the time about their work. To warn them that they're failing or at least doing poorly. A lot of teachers will pass out or post progress reports instead of talking to a kid directly, but it's certainly not an uncommon thing for an instructor to choose to do. And a teacher can be disappointed in a student, even if he hasn't been there long. He could be disappointed in Kat 'cause he knew her parents and expected a kid of theirs to do better. He could be disappointed in a student he didn't know because he had access to their records and saw they'd previously done better. That line alone doesn't make it seem more like a father or daughter talking, and even if it did, the overall tone of the conversation would tell me more than the words individually would. The sweetest, most encouraging platitudes in the world can be said sarcastically. And the whole tone of that conversation is frigidly professional on his side. The point you are not getting is (as warrl noted too) that in role of teacher he is exactly the one wrong teacher to do this, the one for whom this would be completely strange. I'm not sure how you do not get it. I couldn't just go and make a student who has never been my student to repeat a year. However, Annie is not adult, so any this kind of things should be at least discussed with her legal guardian, and that Anthony is. Indeed, the legal guardian can make decisions about her education (in accordance with the school). So, in role of father, he is exactly the most right person to do this. And indeed, it is beyond me how you do not see that going through all her schoolwork is an amazing level of personal engagement. I dare you to think of a single teacher who has gone through all the schoolwork that a non-related student who (s)he has never taught has done to all others teachers on all other subjects that (s)he does not even teach, and specifically all those subjects, as the cheating doesn't even seem to concern the one subject that Anthony does teach. That is not only completely strange, but also out of his position as a teacher: if I, for example, went on to even examine the work that student has done to other teachers, it would be stepping on the tis of that teacher, but if I furthermore busted this student on cheating on someone else's course and tried to force this student to repeat that class, I would not only step on the toes of that given teacher but completely cross borders I have no right to cross as a teacher. It would, however, be completely different if I was the custodian of that given student, because in that case his/her failures would be my business. Also, it would not be in Anthony's position to be disappointed with Kat if she had cheated in Donlans' classes if they were not disappointed with that and he certainly would not come to tell that. It is strictly the business of the involved teachers and the school officials, and of the custodians of the students - and if they were independents adults, then it would not be the business of their parents either (e.g. at least where I've been the universities never inform the parents of the students about their cheating, even if that would often probably be the most effective punishment). |
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Post by todd on Apr 2, 2015 12:49:24 GMT
Short of Tom not thinking out the implications before he wrote these past few pages (and then realizing that he's written himself into a corner - but too late for that), I think that, from the point of view of story-necessity, this state of affairs won't last. Keep in mind that, like Red and the others, Antimony can slip out etherically. Not only that but maybe she'll end up needing to sneak out of the court sometimes?[/quote] Etheric projection could get old quickly if it's the only way the story can have Annie do anything (not to mention that I wouldn't be surprised if Anthony had some way to counteract it). |
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Post by goldenknots on Apr 2, 2015 13:47:44 GMT
Etheric projection could get old quickly if it's the only way the story can have Annie do anything (not to mention that I wouldn't be surprised if Anthony had some way to counteract it). He can check with the Seraphs. All he needs is one of their little paper charms to stick to Antimony's shoulder. |
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Post by aline on Apr 2, 2015 14:00:00 GMT
By the end of the chapter, we will have an ending, probably with some new questions hanging in the air but with a situation for the story to keep developping in intersting ways.
Let's trust Tom Siddell on that one.
Other than that, we can be sure of nothing. How many of us would have guessed she wouldn't be the Court Medium? How many of us would have shrugged off the possibility, saying "the entire story builds up to this, it would make no sense otherwise?" I know I couldn't believe it when I read it!
How many of us guessed she would end up being the Forest Medium?
I'll enjoy being surprised this time too. Even if my wishes aren't granted.
Edit: Going back through the chapters, I can barely find any instance of Annie sitting in her classroom in the last 20 chapters. We see the dorms a tiny bit more often, but most of the time we see her in the forest, at Kat's lab, or just hanging around somewhere at GC. 99% of the story happens during the kid's free time. So even if she's in another class, I doubt that will have such a huge impact on the story. As long as Annie keeps hanging out with her friends after class, we will see them as often as we used to. And we still don't know if Annie would have to leave the dorms as well. Wait and see.
I think we all prefer to think "he can't do that!" because we don't want it to happen. |
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Post by kelantar on Apr 2, 2015 14:19:54 GMT
He refers to Kat as "Ms. Donlan", but calls Antimony by her first name - both in the class environment and after class. This separates her out as being less respected Oh, the amount of absolutely forced interpretation over the plainly observable. How about the obvious reason: this separates Annie out as his daughter. But what's the point in treating her like a daughter if he's not acting (or allowing her to treat him) like a father? I also hope Kat stays and listens to their conversation. But the other students will realize that somethings up when Annie doesn't show up. I kinda hope there's a group around the corner waiting to ask Annie if she's okay and call her dad a jerkwad. The point you are not getting is (as warrl noted too) that in role of teacher he is exactly the one wrong teacher to do this, the one for whom this would be completely strange. I'm not sure how you do not get it. I couldn't just go and make a student who has never been my student to repeat a year. However, Annie is not adult, so any this kind of things should be at least discussed with her legal guardian, and that Anthony is. See, I agree with you that Tony's the wrong teacher to do this, but I also think it's inappropriate as a parent. A parent shouldn't have the ability to hold their kid back, and a teacher should not be able to hold a kid back if they haven't taught them. I think if this was decided upon by the court, the news should have been delivered by someone who taught Annie previously, or perhaps by the headmaster or Jones. |
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