|
|
Post by sidhekin on Mar 20, 2015 17:15:34 GMT
And Tony would say something like "I knew you would do this, that is what your mother would do", then he tells her how Surma taught him how to contact someone in Ether. Then he tells her that he missed her and he had some really important things to do- but he cannot finnish them alone. He needs help, and she is the only person he can trust- that's why noone can know about it, or even suspect they work together. OR he would turn to her and say "This is a class of biology, not etheric nonsense. Please hand over your blinker stone and place it in this lead box in my desk. You will get it back at the end of the school year" At which she points out she's no longer using the blinker stone.  |
|
|
|
Post by SilverbackRon on Mar 20, 2015 17:18:37 GMT
OR he would turn to her and say "This is a class of biology, not etheric nonsense. Please hand over your blinker stone and place it in this lead box in my desk. You will get it back at the end of the school year" At which she points out she's no longer using the blinker stone. 
|
|
|
|
Post by nero on Mar 20, 2015 17:48:10 GMT
This scene just doesn't seem like its really happening. But its interesting that so far we only see dialogue between Anthony(?) and Annie.
It could be that the book is unnecessary because she's leaving the Court.
|
|
|
|
Post by Corvo on Mar 20, 2015 18:08:18 GMT
At which she points out she's no longer using the blinker stone.
Yes, as long as she doesn't think of it as her only memento from a dear friend who has passed on, she'll be fine. XD |
|
|
|
Post by SilverbackRon on Mar 20, 2015 18:11:19 GMT
Motivation Discovered!
Anthony is trying to usurp Boxbot in the Terrible category. But he failed and is just a Horrible Douchebag.
|
|
|
|
Post by atteSmythe on Mar 20, 2015 18:43:55 GMT
Since you will copy all your homework from your classmate anyway I don't see the need to waste one perfectly good textbook on you. Oh god... I'd been thinking that this doesn't mesh with the model of Anthony that I have in my head. So far, he's been cruel, but at least correct in the strictest of terms. This page seemed petty to me, which I didn't think of so much as beneath Anthony as beyond him. i.e., the distinction that cruelty could stem from neglect, but malice requires you to understand another person's emotions and how to manipulate them. But if he knows about Annie's cheating...and Kat doesn't... and if Annie pushes him for a book...and he replies like that, in front of Kat and the rest of the class... he'll have removed the last of her daily support system by pushing a wedge between Annie and Kat. That wouldn't necessarily be his intent, just the result. But where that makes sense to me is that it puts his action in this page back in the 'technically correct' bin for me. "You won't need a book because, in order to prevent you from continuing to copy your friend's homework, I will be tutoring you personally. We will retrieve your things from your dorm after class." |
|
|
|
Post by darlos9d on Mar 20, 2015 18:58:43 GMT
Yeah maybe he's just mad because he found out she cheats.
"Well I'll show her a thing or two I tell you what."
|
|
|
|
Post by antiyonder on Mar 20, 2015 20:20:26 GMT
Thinking it over, I suppose one reason I prefer to insist that Tony's friends speak highly of him out of fear, is because the only other outcome is that they are enabling him.
Maybe not on purpose, but defenses/excuses/justifications only encourage the self-entitled crybabies like Tony to continue their behavior.
I mean if there's one thing I will say in Tony's defense is that people like him can change. But that requires people not to hold his hand and to flat out tell him he's trash.
|
|
|
|
Post by zimmyzims on Mar 20, 2015 20:25:59 GMT
Well now I'm just leaning toward he's trying to set her off into fire mode. Very trying. Hopefully this won't go on for much longer...whatever's going on. I think this time Tom pulls a long nose...  Since you will copy all your homework from your classmate anyway I don't see the need to waste one perfectly good textbook on you. What if he's thinking, "You weren't here when the books were being passed out and now you don't have one. I'm not going to interrupt my lecture to give you one so stfu." I've had more than one teacher like that. Doesn't really matter if she didn't get one as an oversight (since that seat was empty) or no. Yeah, it's probably the usual, one way or another. Tony's convenient mask is "a tin man". Problem with this is that Kat knows tin men, and is qualified to make a withering remark on this. ...and also if something goes wrong enough, it will look like Anthony was obviously set up to provoke Annie into doing something she would regret, just like Surma was set up to provoke Renard - and no way in hell he would be able to argue his way out of this as far as to "reasonable doubt", even if he was capable of talking his way out of an open paper bag. I also have a suspicion that he will helpfully propose a remedial course, and Kat will express her opinion of this (and him) in no uncertain terms even before Annie can answer, if they both are present. And/or promise to have antigravitic loader eject him bodily via window if she'll ever see him around their rooms. I can't imagine people inviting her to all the parties, but they certainly don't dislike her or consider her as weird as before. Well, they did invite her to the party in Faraway Morning - and one back in Power Station, for that matter (if presumably out of politeness, because she's Kat's best friend and they needed Kat's mad hax skillz). After which, she kind of a hero of that boarding party incident. Not that jackassery this thick requires any popularity of the subject to annoy everyone in the room. Have there been any theories as to what exactly those bone structures were that may have had something to do with Anni's coma? and one more down that thread. Compatibility with facts observed in the comic and related by characters... varies. And also I'm starting to wonder that, if Tony is actually doing research on the fire spirit thing ...he would need to start from scratch, unless Jones missed something bigger than a laser cow. And without help ofresources and known specialists from the Court. Maybe this is the exact fucked up way of him showing the affection for his offspring - through sweat, blood and tears, so to say. Because he wants her to be independent and perfect in every way. However, his disorder prevents him from behaving like a normal loving parent. Who can tell? Would be like Anthony. If he as much as understands what is hard and what isn't for her, he might do it on purpose. He is just acting like himself. which is an bitter old man who can't bring himself to forgive his only daughter no matter how hard he tries. Quite possibly. The customary use of "Tin Man" face is to hide the confused wreck blindly thrashing inside. Anthony is just out of his depth when dealing with much more basic facts of life than most of people, that's all. Which is why so far, "well-meaning, but unable to understand people", "well-meaning, but royally messed up" and "well-meaning, but hiding his weakness" (not that they are incompatible) all can fully cover his behaviour - being a fish-out-of-water before Brinnie, learning medicine, becoming a self-exile or runaway from the Court and acting as a shameless jerk, without clashing with what we know about him from Jones and Donlan. I like my version because it also explains what did Surma see in Tony: a great challenge to actually reach him. She was proud, excitable and a Medium, remember? This. Either Tom is loosing some subtlety of his writing, or then we are missing it. I hope and suspect the latter. It is simply too simplistic reading to think that Tony is being a huge jerk inventing completely arbitrary ways to be mean to Annie just to express his petty hatred. This is not in accordance with what we know of him, particularly through Donny: "with Tony, the smallest thing can carry the greatest weight", but in most of the interpretation of this chapter here the things he does in the classroom now do not carry any weight, they are just plain abuse. Even the neglecting... I've never thought that Anthony was truly neglecting Annie, forgetting her to a distant school to carry on on his own, because, if you read the Micro Sat 5 (as TBeholder points out), he just is not the type to neglect things, to let them pass. He gives them weight, too much of it, indeed, and wants to think them through to come to an acceptable answer. Many would just live with those conditions, because that's how it is. Not him. There is something in here that we do not see now, but that gives a reason for what is happening. Or then this is a dream sequence. |
|
|
|
Post by sidhekin on Mar 20, 2015 20:30:47 GMT
It is simply too simplistic reading to think that Tony is being a huge jerk inventing completely arbitrary ways to be mean to Annie just to express his petty hatred. This is not in accordance with what we know of him, particularly through Donny: "with Tony, the smallest thing can carry the greatest weight", but in most of the interpretation of this chapter here the things he does in the classroom now do not carry any weight, they are just plain abuse. Even the neglecting... I've never thought that Anthony was truly neglecting Annie, forgetting her to a distant school to carry on on his own, because, if you read the Micro Sat 5 (as TBeholder points out), he just is not the type to neglect things, to let them pass. He gives them weight, too much of it, indeed, and wants to think them through to come to an acceptable answer. QFT Tom has set up Tony to be different, but not petty; quite the contrary. He has a reason. Might be a very mistaken reason, sure, but he has one. Tom would not set up Donny to be so wrong. |
|
|
|
Post by antiyonder on Mar 20, 2015 20:33:08 GMT
I don't know. Isn't having a sense of self-entitlement a form a pettiness?
|
|
|
|
Post by atteSmythe on Mar 20, 2015 20:36:45 GMT
I don't know. Isn't having a sense of self-entitlement a form a pettiness? I don't get the impression that Anthony feels entitled beyond what is due his station. |
|
|
|
Post by antiyonder on Mar 20, 2015 20:41:26 GMT
Don't know. I mean plenty of people deal with the loss of a loved one and other traumas without having to take Jerkass Lane or Dick Street.
The fact that Anthony uses his wife's death to excuse his behavior towards his daughter reeks of entitlement to me.
|
|
|
|
Post by atteSmythe on Mar 20, 2015 20:56:24 GMT
That's probably where we disagree, then. Personally, I don't think that any of Anthony's behavior is driven by (edit: his sorrow following) the loss of his wife. I suspect he's doing everything he can to save Annie from Surma's fate, and simply failing to make even the slightest human connection in the process.
I also suspect that between Annie's lax schoolwork, becoming the Forest medium, and by his point of view working to thwart him in Divine, that Anthony sees her as rebellious, disrespectful, and badly in need of discipline.
This doesn't excuse his behavior - the most terrifying villains are those that believe deep down that what they are doing is right and necessary - but it's the only thing I can come up with at this point to explain it.
But hey, we're only four pages into the second chapter of this book. We have plenty of time to find out what's really up!
|
|
|
|
Post by warrl on Mar 20, 2015 21:00:24 GMT
But an actively hostile Tony conflicts with the sort of Tony that (according to Donny) would have contacted Annie by phone... Well, the Tony we actually have never did contact Antimony. He merely used a slightly odd communication channel to get a message to Mr. Donlan without it being generally known that he had done so. I think he is testing her, he wants to see how advanced her etheric abilities are. We know she can easily use the ether to read the book over someone elses shoulder, Tony wants to test this ability. IF this constant abuse causes her to flame out, he wants to test this as well, to test how far she can be pushed, or how resilient she is to avoiding the flame out. I assume that in Tony's mind, the anger that leads to using the fire is a bad thing and must be controlled. If Annie does use the fire Tony will see it as somehting that needs to be corrected, or an excuse to resume attempts to remove the fire ablities under the authorisation of the court. If Annie decides that this is what's going on, I think she should respond by using fire-form more or less randomly without regard to her mood. But only in his class. Otherwise, strictly human unless some specific circumstance makes fire-form obviously sensible. (I wonder if she can be in fire-form except for her hands and forearms, so she can safely handle papers on the desk.) And Tony would say something like "I knew you would do this, that is what your mother would do", then he tells her how Surma taught him how to contact someone in Ether. Then he tells her that he missed her and he had some really important things to do- but he cannot finnish them alone. He needs help, and she is the only person he can trust- that's why noone can know about it, or even suspect they work together. But if there were a competent and caring headmaster, Mr. Carver would be bounced out of this school by the end of the week for the effect that his callousness and emotional brutality toward his daughter is having on the *other* students. Which would surely have an adverse effect on whatever he's planning. ------ Theory: Tony has convinced himself somehow that Annie is in fact two people: one human, one fire elemental. He's trying to drive the fire elemental away so that the human can live. Obvious problem with such an idea: then why couldn't Surma live when the fire elemental part moved on to Annie? Obvious problem with execution: he doesn't know how to be rude and insulting to a fire elemental - only to a human. So even if his idea is correct, he's driving human-Annie away at least as much as fire-elemental-Annie. Less obvious problem: Annie is really only one person who is both human and fire elemental. |
|
|
|
Post by Chancellor on Mar 20, 2015 21:49:22 GMT
Since you will copy all your homework from your classmate anyway I don't see the need to waste one perfectly good textbook on you. Oh god... I'd been thinking that this doesn't mesh with the model of Anthony that I have in my head. So far, he's been cruel, but at least correct in the strictest of terms. This page seemed petty to me, which I didn't think of so much as beneath Anthony as beyond him. i.e., the distinction that cruelty could stem from neglect, but malice requires you to understand another person's emotions and how to manipulate them. But if he knows about Annie's cheating...and Kat doesn't... and if Annie pushes him for a book...and he replies like that, in front of Kat and the rest of the class... he'll have removed the last of her daily support system by pushing a wedge between Annie and Kat. That wouldn't necessarily be his intent, just the result. But where that makes sense to me is that it puts his action in this page back in the 'technically correct' bin for me. "You won't need a book because, in order to prevent you from continuing to copy your friend's homework, I will be tutoring you personally. We will retrieve your things from your dorm after class." I'm screaming. A major falling out between Kat and Annie over that and enforced parental supervision would hurt me even more than Fire Spike. And I can see Anthony doing just that to top off the hellcake that Annie's life is becoming. |
|
|
|
Post by keef on Mar 20, 2015 21:49:52 GMT
Well now I'm just leaning toward he's trying to set her off into fire mode. Very trying. Hopefully this won't go on for much longer...whatever's going on. Yep, he's trying to make her burst in flames all right. Just another step in order to get his experiments done. It's got to be it! I agree he wants her to lose her temper, but I'm not sure why. About his arseholeness: Love makes you act in strange ways. He may have convinced himself that he is "doing the right thing". Problem could be that people who are "cruel to be kind" start enjoying the cruel part a bit too much. This is some top tier storytelling we are witnessing here. It's a great start of chapter anyway.. And welcome to you and the other new people here. |
|
|
|
Post by antiyonder on Mar 20, 2015 23:02:39 GMT
This doesn't excuse his behavior - the most terrifying villains are those that believe deep down that what they are doing is right and necessary - but it's the only thing I can come up with at this point to explain it. Agreed: 1. And I think those types of people need to die out or be forced into isolation so that their stupidity can't harm anyone (or anyone else). 2. What worse with those types of villains arguably is that with a regular jerkass, there is no divide. With Anthony and his ilk, you have people who humor the possibility that they may be good people and should be sympathized with rather than brutally (and rightfully) condemned. |
|
|
|
Post by warrl on Mar 20, 2015 23:28:50 GMT
2. What worse with those types of villains arguably is that with a regular jerkass, there is no divide. With Anthony and his ilk, you have people who humor the possibility that they may be good people and should be sympathized with rather than brutally (and rightfully) condemned. Sorry, you're mistaken on one point. You take a brutal dictator who comes out and says "I behead babies in front of their mothers because it's fun to watch the bitches wail" and there'll be people who say "Really, he just does that to maintain a tough image so nobody will try to overthrow him. He doesn't really mean it." |
|
|
|
Post by SilverbackRon on Mar 21, 2015 0:12:31 GMT
There are just too many good posts in this thread! I don't want to just blanket upvote EVERY post because then it becomes meaningless, but I want to say I am really enjoying this discussion as much as Annie is NOT enjoying this class. So I'll pick one I really like. That's probably where we disagree, then. Personally, I don't think that any of Anthony's behavior is driven by (edit: his sorrow following) the loss of his wife. I suspect he's doing everything he can to save Annie from Surma's fate, and simply failing to make even the slightest human connection in the process. I also suspect that between Annie's lax schoolwork, becoming the Forest medium, and by his point of view working to thwart him in Divine, that Anthony sees her as rebellious, disrespectful, and badly in need of discipline. This doesn't excuse his behavior - the most terrifying villains are those that believe deep down that what they are doing is right and necessary - but it's the only thing I can come up with at this point to explain it. But hey, we're only four pages into the second chapter of this book. We have plenty of time to find out what's really up! Emphasis added because that is gorgeous. I am not even sure the loss of Surma is his real motivation any more. It could be, and we have been floating theories about him trying to "save his daughter" from what he perceives as the Fire Elemental Curse ever since the bonelasers in Divine, if not earlier. It just makes the most sense, given what scant information we have on Anthony. As you say, only four pages into this chapter and while I am sure we will see more egregious abuse from this father to his daughter, at some point the focus will change. Every chapter has its twists and turns. |
|
|
|
Post by todd on Mar 21, 2015 0:18:54 GMT
Thinking it over, I suppose one reason I prefer to insist that Tony's friends speak highly of him out of fear, is because the only other outcome is that they are enabling him. What about: Antony's changed since Mr. Donlan and the others knew him? Presumably they haven't seen him since Surma's death, and her passing (followed by all that time wandering the world) could have made him colder and harsher. |
|
|
|
Post by Mitth'raw'nuruodo on Mar 21, 2015 0:36:44 GMT
So how many else think that:
A: This isn't her father.
B: This is a nightmare, or something like that?
|
|
|
|
Post by fish on Mar 21, 2015 0:48:44 GMT
I am too tired to read through the whole thread, so I apologize if I bring up points which have already been mentioned!
This. Is. So. Absurd.
The first page was a thrill.
The second page was a shock.
The third page powerful and emotional.
This page is just so absurd.
It's so absurd, I had to laugh at Anthony's "Yes, I can see that" before I snapped back to feeling so, so bad for Annie. I thought he would quit his hostilities once he starts the class. Nope, that doesn't seem to be the case. Here's another prediction for the following pages:
Anthony will continue his lecture. At some point he will have Annie stand up. He'll ask her an advanced question she couldn't possibly know the answer to. Or alternatively, a question she could know te answer to but doesn't. Annie will ashamedly tell him "I'm sorry Sir, I don't know". Had I been thinking about this scenario an update ago, I would have said 'Anthony will stare her down but then continue with asking another student'. Now I believe instead of letting it go, he will reply with a sharp reprimand, criticizing her attitude and questioning her abilities. Annie won't be able to handle that; she'll sit back down with a lowered gaze, tears starting to fall from her eyes.
Now, I'm making this prediction simply because I had a similar experience in school. A teacher I didn't particularly like asked me a question, I told him I didn't know the answer (like some other students had done before, no problem). He told me that with an attitude like that I 'had no business going to this school' and I should be ashamed (I was attending a gymnasium, which is viewed as something like an "advanced high school" here in Germany; our school system is stupid and elitst, I hate it). My nerves, or maybe my pride, couldn't handle it. I struggled to give him an answer he was satisfied with and then continued to stare at my table, desperately trying not to sob out loud from the tears in my eyes. And I was actually one of the best students in my class, just not in your stupid subject, you stupid *bleep*!
On a less personal note! Why do those chairs have no backs? Is that commom in English schools? I have never seen stools like that in a German school, no matter the subject, so this looks weird to me. Kind of as if Anthony had something to do with the furnishing of this room. ...oh wait! I vaguely remember learning that teachers in England had their own rooms in wich they would hold their classes... is that true? In Germany teachers usually have no rooms of their own they could furnish however they wanted.
Oh! And: Tom tweeted a few things about the eclipse today. The last one was "Annie's dad said she wasn't allowed to watch the eclipse." Hahaha! Amazing!
|
|
|
|
Post by kelantar on Mar 21, 2015 0:56:57 GMT
On the slightly unrelated note - I really like, how is Anthony and his dynamics with Annie portrayed in this chapter. It really shows Annie's view of him as this distant, cryptic, menacing and unforgving authority. It also very nicely shows how is Annie actually AFRAID of her own father. Notice how she tries to address him as a father - not dad. I imagine he was always somehow like this. Anyway, I applaud Tom's creative genius. This is some top tier storytelling we are witnessing here. This is one of the reasons I've always kinda disliked Anthony. I don't think he's ever let her call him "dad", which makes me wonder if he ever even saw her as anything more than a biological byproduct of hanky-panky.  |
|
|
|
Post by antiyonder on Mar 21, 2015 1:14:45 GMT
Thinking it over, I suppose one reason I prefer to insist that Tony's friends speak highly of him out of fear, is because the only other outcome is that they are enabling him. What about: Antony's changed since Mr. Donlan and the others knew him? Presumably they haven't seen him since Surma's death, and her passing (followed by all that time wandering the world) could have made him colder and harsher. If that's the case then we need to ultimately see more of his good moments (show, don't tell). |
|
|
|
Post by TBeholder on Mar 21, 2015 1:17:41 GMT
Yes, as long as she doesn't think of it as her only memento from a dear friend who has passed on, she'll be fine. XD I doubt this condition can be hereditary. But if he knows about Annie's cheating...and Kat doesn't... and if Annie pushes him for a book...and he replies like that, in front of Kat and the rest of the class... he'll have removed the last of her daily support system by pushing a wedge between Annie and Kat. In other circumstances, perhaps, but after this circus? I doubt Kat would have a drop of fury left to be upset at Annie at this point, except because she "always got an excuse for him". If anything, right now the one who presents the greatest health hazard is Kat. Thinking it over, I suppose one reason I prefer to insist that Tony's friends speak highly of him out of fear, is What a strange idea. because the only other outcome is that they are enabling him. As opposed to disabling him? The fact that Anthony uses his wife's death to excuse his behavior towards his daughter reeks of entitlement to me. When Anthony as much as implied that he may possibly need some sort of an excuse? Do we read the same comic? If Annie decides that this is what's going on, I think she should respond by using fire-form more or less randomly without regard to her mood. But only in his class. The main question is, what does she really want? Now that Annie have seen up close actually functional families, both human (Donlans) and not (Anwyns), she eventually have to compare and realize that's not it. Then it depends on her decision as to what to do about it. If she wants to fix it, she will talk with him rather playing exactly the same stupid game he usually does. If she chooses to give up, she'd just start addressing him "sir" whether in class or out, and won't even need any tricks or even desire to "show him". All this will be a little sad, but that's it. |
|
|
|
Post by Corvo on Mar 21, 2015 1:36:42 GMT
Yes, as long as she doesn't think of it as her only memento from a dear friend who has passed on, she'll be fine. XD I doubt this condition can be hereditary. I'm sorry, but either my logic or my english abilities (both? XD) are not enough for me to undestand what you're saying. What "condition" are you talking about? |
|
|
|
Post by TBeholder on Mar 21, 2015 2:42:31 GMT
I doubt this condition can be hereditary. I'm sorry, but either my logic or my english abilities (both? XD) are not enough for me to undestand what you're saying. What "condition" are you talking about? Weird behaviour around the only mementos from a dear friend who has passed on. |
|
lit
Full Member
Posts: 201
|
Post by lit on Mar 21, 2015 2:54:20 GMT
What I don't quite understand is why Tony is being so overtly unpleasant to Annie when he could surely find less visible ways to hurt her. He is showing that he's not afraid that Kat will tell the Donlons or that Janet will tell the headmaster or that any of the other students or teachers might try to interfere somehow. Is he still on good terms with Donny? Does he care to be?
Perhaps he's unaware that Annie has friends or perhaps he has permission from the headmaster to treat Annie however he sees fit, as some have speculated, but it occurs to me that maybe Anthony expects that Annie will ask her friends not to interfere on her behalf. Annie might not be willing to accept help with regards to her father. She might be ashamed or afraid or reluctant to admit that she needs help.
Everybody knows what Annie is going through right now and everybody seems concerned for her but nobody is speaking up, and is it because they are confused, or caught off guard, or scared for themselves? Or is it because they think she perhaps would prefer them not to? Or that it's not their responsibility? Kat punched Muut in the chest for Annie and yelled at that guy in RoTD just because he was being a little rude, but nobody has said anything to Anthony. And the longer they wait the more difficult it might become to do so.
|
|
|
|
Post by warrl on Mar 21, 2015 3:02:38 GMT
On a less personal note! Why do those chairs have no backs? Is that commom in English schools? I have never seen stools like that in a German school, no matter the subject, so this looks weird to me. Kind of as if Anthony had something to do with the furnishing of this room. ...oh wait! I vaguely remember learning that teachers in England had their own rooms in wich they would hold their classes... is that true? In Germany teachers usually have no rooms of their own they could furnish however they wanted. If you look closely you'll see that each table has a sink in the middle. This isn't just a classroom, it's a laboratory. In my high school most classrooms had chairs but the labs and a few other specialized-equipment rooms had stools. When things are going seriously wrong - more likely in a laboratory or shop, books and pencils rarely misbehave in a dangerous fashion - it's generally easier to get off a stool and out of the way. |
|
