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Post by mcbibble on Mar 16, 2015 10:59:37 GMT
Well I got a tonne of theories on about Anthony vs. Makeup, all of which may prove to be unfounded and all of which are wild speculation so nm.
But thinking about Anthony himself as a character- the backstory we've been shown, Annie's view of him, everything just fits- makes so much sense.
We've been shown in Donnie's flashback that Mr Carver is a deeply flawed person. IN that story, and at that age, it plays out fairly sympathetically for him- he messes Brinnie around and we sort of feel sorry for the both of them because clearly this is a boy who has no idea what to do in social situations, or with his own emotions, and that's kind of tragic.
Now, though, we have a grown man who has not developed those skills and seems to have completely hardened himself. It might be a protective mechanism because of Deep Feeeeelings but here's the thing- I don't care. He's an adult, he has a child, he has abused her emotionally. Whatever shit he had going on, a decent person would have sorted it out rather than going around callously hurting other people.
I don't give a crap what his reasons are, his actions are cold, horrid and inexcusable. And I think that's the thing we're supposed to take away from this- Tom has framed this carefully so we will hate this man. I feel supported by authorial intent- whatever brought Anthony Carver to this point- I don't care. I care about Annie.
And that isn't to say he lacks complexity, or isn't believable. (In fact, he reminds me of my grandfather. Plenty of men of a certain generation were like this.) This doesn't make him '2d'. It's just that complexity doesn't necessarily need to be sympathetic. Sometimes human beings are just jerks.
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Post by Purgatorius on Mar 16, 2015 11:05:33 GMT
After this page... I am calling a dream sequence. Me too! (Searched this thread for the word "dream" to find someone to agree with.) |
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Post by mcbibble on Mar 16, 2015 11:08:11 GMT
After this page... I am calling a dream sequence. Me too! (Searched this thread for the word "dream" to find someone to agree with.) There's just no way this is a dream sequence. |
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brokshi
Full Member
About as furious as my icon appears ecstatic.
Posts: 108
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Post by brokshi on Mar 16, 2015 11:14:19 GMT
I'm baselessly worried that this jerk will say something like "I'm sorry, I signed up to teach humans, not hybrids" to single Annie out. Just feels like something he'd do after all this buildup. This is just as bad, what the hell, Anthony. |
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Post by csj on Mar 16, 2015 11:24:32 GMT
We know that Antimony's father withholds his emotion. We know he has limited interest in social graces. We also know that he is strongly academic.
These taken into account, his actions are not outside what we should expect. It is classroom politics. By calmly reprimanding Annie, he displays to the class that he won't be favouring his daughter. It also serves as a warning to the class of his disciplinary attitude.
A dick move, perhaps, but he probably sees it as necessary. Be outwardly soft on her and the class might not approve...
Other than further demonstrating his 'face', we really haven't learnt that much about his inward self; we'll have to wait for a moment outside of class.
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Post by luxanima on Mar 16, 2015 11:29:56 GMT
It would be so cool if Winsbury stood up for her...
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Post by cu on Mar 16, 2015 11:30:38 GMT
Annie: "No need for the rest room, fath... uh... sir. I can just incinerate it. See?" (fwooosh!)
The class: "Burnnnnn!" :-P
Kat (thinking): "Maybe I should turn down the 'stern' knob of this Carverbot".
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brokshi
Full Member
About as furious as my icon appears ecstatic.
Posts: 108
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Post by brokshi on Mar 16, 2015 11:34:39 GMT
It would be so cool if Winsbury stood up for her... We haven't seen Kat's reaction yet, and she seems far more likely to actually stand up and yell at a teacher for Annie. |
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Post by Jelly Jellybean on Mar 16, 2015 11:36:27 GMT
I wonder when Anthony is going to drop the bomb and tell Annie that he isn't her father?* Probably not for a long time, and probably not by choice, because that reveal will give up a lot of leverage.**
* I am partial to the theory that the human-fire elemental hybrids reproduce by spontaneous pregnancy. Partially because that would make Annie/Anthony the opposite of the Luke/Vader cliche.
** Or maybe never. The story could leave it open to interpretation for reader's that want to stretch it that far.
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Post by TBeholder on Mar 16, 2015 11:37:41 GMT
So, now we know that Tony, indeed, lived these years in a silica gel can. That's nice to know. Winsbury looks ready to murder. And if panel #5 is any example, this also instantly made him the "favourite" of this whole class. I was expecting cold aloofness or something, not...this. Actually, that's what we should have expected. Given that the make-up is one of the things strongly reminding of Surma, and Tony got to have it worse than Eglamore - remember that hippopotamus-in-cafe show?.. So this in his field of vision probably makes him dysfunctional in even more ways than usual. Of course, for the same reason, even if she does see his problem and does not object to him making it her problem, it's still going to annoy Annie beyond speech... Also, will she apply that make-up immediately after the class? Now, or every single time. That would make a nice personal tradition. And upset Tony more, as a side effect bonus, of course. Hey Anthony, you may have just booked a ticket on the PAIN TRAIN At very least, Kat probably decided to instruct the laser cows to pee on his grave ever after. And to develop a new firefighting / open cycle cooling system for them, just to make this possible. My guess is more than meets the eye here... eg Dad has reason to put on an act and may be message for daughter in washroom. Maybe, but that's a bit tenuous. Especially since i's unreliable and he trusts Donny. So, wait. Wasn't there a theory that Annie's makeup protects her from supernatural attacks? Also, our Tony was in the "don't get that 'etheric' stuff" camp, and used to have a habit of dealing with things he doesn't understand by pretending they don't exist or trying to make them go away. This guy isn't Niels Bohr to hang a horseshoe just in case. Surprise, surprise, it's also a bad attitude for dealing with safety measures. That, with the hope he has a reason for getting her to the restroom other than the makeup remind him too much of surma From his previous performance, and/or lack thereof, it's likely to be not "because it reminds him of Surma too much" in itself, but rather "because being reminded of Surma too much interferes with his work". After all, Anthony's record of quickly figuring out how he feels and what to do about this so far is empty; he used to not only fail to show, but actively hide his feelings (back from that episode with Brinnie); how to demand, or even ask anything of other people also may be a problem as well - so if that was about how he feels about something, he could first try to mumble, writhe, claw himself etc. If he gets straight to the business, he most likely thinks of it as pertinent. |
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temnoc
Junior Member
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Post by temnoc on Mar 16, 2015 11:39:13 GMT
Can Zimmy show up and punch him in the face again? Again? When was the first time? |
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Post by oneandoneis2 on Mar 16, 2015 11:44:24 GMT
I think the scarred face from Zimmy's punch tells against it being a dream sequence - Annie doesn't know/believe that really happened.
Seems like it all comes down to: Either Tony is evil, or there's something more than is obvious going on.
The obvious "evil" option has plenty to support it: Abandoning Annie, causing her collapse in Divine, his aloof behaviour here...
Also, this is the exact same kind of "dick" behaviour that the Court showed when they chose Smitty as medium - the Head made a decision that surprised everyone, teachers included, and totally crushed Annie. Appointing Tony like this seems like more of the same, and implies Tony is well and truly in the Court's pocket. The Court's experiments with extracting and controlling Ether (Spring-Heeled) are pretty well parallel to Tony's Divine attempt to (apparently) siphon off Annie's energy.
On the other hand.. Kat's parents think he's a good guy. Annie has always seemed convinced of it, too. Surma chose him over Eglamore and had his child even knowing it would kill her. That's an awful lot of faith to just disregard.
I'm wondering if he's doing some kind of double-agent thing: If he's determined to find a way to save Annie from Surma's fate, he might need to pretend to be on the Court's side to get access to their info on Ether and/or Annie. Given that we know the Court is heavily into student surveillance, he'd have to assume that anything he says to Annie will be heard.
Know what this makes me wonder about more than ever? Tony was labelled by Jones as having no interest in anything outside of pure science. And yet when Coyote was told Annie was Tony's daughter, Coyote knew exactly who they were talking about and what the situation must be - "How awkward! hahaha". Clearly Coyote's knowledge of Carver predated Surma breaking up with Eglamore, so.. why does he know all about Tony? There's clearly a lot more in Tony's past than is obvious. I think taking anything he says or does on face value is on a par with not looking below the surface with Coyote: They're both complex characters with hidden and so-far unknowable agendas.
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Post by cu on Mar 16, 2015 11:44:39 GMT
I have heard of schools here in Spain where, if it is actually possible and not too much of a hassle, they fix the schedule so teachers won't have one of their children in class. It seems like a healthy policy to me, both for the school and the family.
Although if that situation happens it doesn't have to be any big issue, as long as teachers are as professional about it as they are expected to be and don't treat their children in class any different from the rest of students.
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Post by ed1300 on Mar 16, 2015 11:47:48 GMT
Can Zimmy show up and punch him in the face again? Again? When was the first time? |
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Post by Lightice on Mar 16, 2015 11:50:33 GMT
Can Zimmy show up and punch him in the face again? Again? When was the first time? . |
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Post by zimmyzims on Mar 16, 2015 12:04:20 GMT
Wait hang on which chapter is the evil space bones? I've read all of GC but I genuinely don't remember that, or the Zimmy face-punch people keep mentioning... did I miss something? Divine. It's divine. Read it. Possibly the best chapter of webcomics ever! (picture here a Kanye West showing up with another moment of his obsession with Beyoncé) |
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Post by Fishy on Mar 16, 2015 12:06:32 GMT
I'll try to fit in a little speculation here...
I was very skeptical at first, but if it's true that this is Anthony, then I'm going to believe it rather than going with the dream theory. Just considering the overall lack of dream sequences in the comic anywho. Still, I can't say there's no chance. On a more speculative note, you get to see both him and Annie pretty much straight on here, and it's a good way to tell that there's just about nothing similar between them. Skin color sure, but Annie's face is much more rounded while Anthony's is more rigid. Annie has near perfect skin while Anthony appears to have a busted lip (Please Tom, let that be a long standing leftover from Zimmy) and a few wrinkles. They don't even share their eye color, which I think that second-to-last panel is meant to convey. The most I could say for them is that they both part their hair on the right side.
Right, that over with? Back to the angry mob spirit.
HOLD ME BACK BRO HOLD ME BACK
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Post by philman on Mar 16, 2015 12:07:25 GMT
People trying to say Tony is 'Evil', or making reasons for why he is not evil... It is still possible to be a dick even if you are on the 'right' side. I don't think this comic even has a concept of 'evil per se. I don't know if we have met a character who is completely good or evil or whatever, everyone has their flaws, the characters in this comic are all human, not good and not evil.
Whatever his reasons are, Tony is being a dick. That doesn't mean he is evil, indeed his intentions may still be good in terms of protecting Annie or making her grow up, but he is still a dick.
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Post by zimmyzims on Mar 16, 2015 12:08:01 GMT
To me, it's not so much a problem that he said that to Antimony. I put a lot of blame into the Court itself. What were they thinking, putting Annie into class with her father? I mean, we had plenty of parents and their children at our schools and I can't remember of a single time when they were put in the same class! That being said: What Anthony did was way out of line for any teacher adressing any pupil! He establishes a new rule? Fine! Tell the class that from now on this or that is forbidden. Enforce it the next time. Namecalling a pupil in front of the class for doing something that was all right until that moment is simply not right, regardless if it is his daughter or not! Which does not mean, of course, that there aren't teachers in real life who do exactly that. Alas... PS: On a more general note: I severely dislike makeup on people too, regardless of age or gender. Only exception being certain artists like Alice Cooper. But I don't go around talking to people to stop that habit. Have to agree. That was retroactive legislation. Please, let there be a message she gets because of this, and a message other than "your dad's a huge jerk". |
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Post by fish on Mar 16, 2015 12:36:56 GMT
Now, for my own theory: First of all, the reason why Annie wears make-up: Because of her mother, it is the same way Surma had it. Maybe she is trying to be more like her mother, replace her or it just remembrance of her mother. Anthony sees this and thinks that Annie looks to similar. He hates the idea that Annie is somehow there to replace Surma and the make-up thing really makes it obvious to him. I think he does genuinely hate Annie for what has happened to Surma. However, this doesn't make him evil. He is a bad parent but he is not evil. I think Anthony might be the Snape of this story. He hates Annie because the woman he loved died because of her. However, because of Surma he is still going to protect her. And he was ordered to help Annie even tough he hates her so he does this in an harsh indirect way that really shouldn't be done. His ways of working put him in the bad side but in the end he had been serving the good side all along. The question only is, which side is the good side? [...] You guys are now free to yell at me.  Ah yes, you've touched a nerve here, haha. I think you are over-simplifying the issue here by calling Tony's feelings for Annie 'hate'. Now I'm not saying a parent is not able to hate their child but(!) a parent cannot hate their child just like any person can hate another person. First of all, we like to throw around words like 'love' and 'hate' and often forget that those words describe really powerful emotions. Most of the time I am just annoyed or angry at somebody, actual hate is reserved for very special people and my decision to hate somebody is almost irreversible. But when a parent hates their child (death of the other parent at birth is, I think, the most likely reason for such a situation), this feeling of hate will be mixed with a feeling guilt. Because they know the child is not responsible for the situation, cannot be held responsible! But they feel the unreasonable anger and disdain anyway, even though they are expected by everybody to care for this child. And they know they should care but they can't. This mixture of hate and guilt is quite toxic and will eat away at them. If Anthony is indeed a 'normal' person like you claim (whatever the alternative may be) and if he still does blame Annie for Surmas death, then under that cold and calm surface should be a raging storm of self-contempt. ...or at least I hope so. I hope he is suffering. And because Tony is actually Annie's dad, I don't think the Snape-comparison applies. Snape was free to hate Harry all he wanted, he was not supposed to care for him. (Comparisonst of GC to HP do not often hold up in my opinion). Disclaimer: I am not expert on these issues and I hope I didn't overstep my limits with this comment. Please do correct me if I'm wrong with anything.
P.S.: Has anybody here seen 'The Babadook'? Great movie dealing with similar issues! |
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Post by basser on Mar 16, 2015 12:38:26 GMT
Surprised that no one has taken note of the chapter title and picture - 'the apple doesn't fall far from the tree'. Would imply finding out how Annie and Tony are similar. (Unless it's an ironic invocation of the saying, I guess.) The title would make little sense unless the chapter is intended to make a direct comparison between the two. Hence not about Kat hurting anyone.
Kind of creepy and alarming so many of you want a young girl to kill/injure a man, by the way.
Also Tony's still my favorite, now moreso than ever. Probably helps a lot that I've never found Annie to be all that likeable but as far as I'm concerned the makeup comment was hilarious. You go, Tony. Tell em like it is.
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Post by Elysium on Mar 16, 2015 12:39:08 GMT
Seems like Tony has been learning the ancient art of superdickery.
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temnoc
Junior Member
Posts: 70
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Post by temnoc on Mar 16, 2015 12:48:55 GMT
Thanks. Huh, somehow I didn't remember that at all. Sidenote reaction: Well done Tom. I'm almost certain your intention was to get a rise out of the fans, and you've certainly done so. Now I'm interested to see where he takes this. |
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Post by mcbibble on Mar 16, 2015 12:50:39 GMT
Quite surprised at the number of people defending Tony/ professing to like him! Obviously these things are subjective so I'm not criticising it's just- am I forgetting a chapter? He's hardly been in it at all, has he? And what we've seen of him has been filtered through the lens of other people- the one tender image we have of him is from Annie's perspective, when he wrapped her foot and we couldn't see his face then. In all honesty the tenderness of that moment may have been wishful thinking on her part. I don't count the time he cried on Surma because of the look he gave his child straight after.
If you like Tony- could you explain why?
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Shire
Junior Member
Posts: 77 
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Post by Shire on Mar 16, 2015 12:54:08 GMT
As many have said, Anthony is certainly appearing here to be seemingly possessing of the qualities that make a person rather not unlike a total jerkface. Now obviously this comic is not meant to be realistic, but I wonder: is it normal in the British school system that teachers can teach their own children? In the schools I visited back when I grew up in Germany that situation was scrupulously avoided - at the beginning of each year the teachers worked out a plan that would ensure that a teacher's child only ever had other people as teachers. Obviously to avoid both preferential treatment and the "fa... um... sir" embarrassment so well illustrated here. So, is this a British thing or just a Gunnerkrigg Court thing? When I was in primary school one of my teachers had a son in my class. There were two classes for each year so it presumably could've be avoided without too much hassle. But to my recollection she never sent him out of the class to take his make-up off. |
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Post by basser on Mar 16, 2015 13:13:30 GMT
If you like Tony- could you explain why? He's the one character in this whole debacle who's evidently looked at the etheric nonsense around him and gone "no, that's bullshit" and chosen to do something about it. Everyone else just rolls over and lets the universe do what it will to them. Tony doesn't care if forces beyond human comprehension are at work killing his wife and child, he's damn well gonna make this junk work out in his favor. Kat is nearly as good about this but I feel Tony's gone the extra mile in straight up forcing the magic voodoo to work for him. Also his characterisation in the flashback chapter paints him as my favorite kind of character. The one who's hiding how much he cares about things behind an apathetic mask. And in doing that he's apparently cool with being a dick to Annie, which I'm all kinds of down with because Annie frequently irritates me and I'd like for someone to put her in her place once in a while. Just because she's the protagonist doesn't mean I have to like or root for her. So if there's a character who may or may not hold a massive grudge against the character who annoys me the most then yeah you better bet I'm on his side. Edit: also you're citing "tender moments" as the only reasons why someone might like a character. I specifically dislike tender or emotional characters, so his lack of boring emotional fluff is a big point in his favor. Nothing I hate more than people harping on about their stupid useless feelings. |
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Post by Harlequin on Mar 16, 2015 13:14:55 GMT
If the point of that was to send a message then he screwed up big time. I mean if you can go on the run for several years, get things from a satellite, surely you can drop a note into her backpack or pocket or something! If he is trying to protect her from whatever it is that he's doing, do any of you really think it's going to stop them? They'll probably think it's an act and go after Antimony anyways. In short, I don't care what his reasons were, Tony's a complete dick. Though it is nice to see that the class is coming to Antimony's side.
Did I make an account just to post this? Why yes, I did.
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Post by Jelly Jellybean on Mar 16, 2015 13:17:43 GMT
Prediction: Anthony has only just gotten started (being a jerk). He'll use his parental authority to...
- Not allow Annie to go into or have any contact with the Forest
- Confiscate her blinker stone (although I don't she'll need that crutch anymore)
- Make her move to a room of her own / isolate her from Kat and the other students
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Post by csj on Mar 16, 2015 13:20:28 GMT
People trying to say Tony is 'Evil', or making reasons for why he is not evil... It is still possible to be a dick even if you are on the 'right' side. maybe we need a new three-dimensional alternative to D&D's 'alignment chart' to plot 'dickness' then? Introducing mr carver, the lawful neutral dick. ... Nah. 'Dickness' is just intolerance of those with alternate opinions, ideas, or mindset. |
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Post by Fishy on Mar 16, 2015 13:30:09 GMT
It just dawned on me. Annie gets to keep Rey because that doll he's inhabiting belongs to her. It's got her mark, made for her. He has to listen to what she tells him. You don't suppose Tony could control Rey as well? Scary thoughts. Of all the places he could exercise power, that's an area of Annie's life I wouldn't want Anthony anywhere near.
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