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Post by Daedalus on Mar 17, 2015 21:07:35 GMT
I just realized: The lash out against Anthony is so huge, because everyone's parental instincts just kicked in. Please, please tell me you're kidding. The moral high ground is jumped upon so often that not even grass grows on it. Claiming also an exclusive narrow golden gate to it is just ridiculous - it stands in an open field. And either way, the instincts in question obviously can't be parental. Actually, no, I totally agree with fish on this. The use of "everyone" may be a hyperbole (haven't we already argued about those on this thread?) but it's an entirely reasonable component for why there's so much argument over what would otherwise be a pretty small deal. Other times that we argue, it's usually over bigger-world issues such as LGBT rights or the ethics of pornography. We (the readers) have seen Annie mature from a young, fragile, and emotionally-stunted preteen into a relatively happy and emotionally-normal human(/elemental). Throughout the entire comic Tom has followed how she is coming out of her shell, so to speak. Furthermore, we've known all along that, regardless of any justifications, Annie's time in the hospital with a dying mother and distant father is almost certainly what led Annie to develop her emotional blocks and her 'mask' over her true feelings. We care about her as a character, and would hate to see her suffer. And then her father returns, and again regardless of any justifications, embarrasses her in front of her peers as nearly his first words. I think it's entirely reasonable to say that many of us are inflamed because we feel protective of Annie. If that's not parental instincts, I don't know what is. And echoing edzepp, the fact that we're emotionally connected to a fictional character is a hallmark of good writing. And where did fish every imply that it was the only reason to be irritated? Calm down, man. |
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Post by SilverbackRon on Mar 17, 2015 21:18:22 GMT
Wow. Anthony Carver is a total Asshat. Insensitive as ever. No matter his motivations, there is no justification for ridiculing his daughter in front of the class like that. I am glad to see the other students being shocked/outraged on Annie's behalf. She has a lot more friends than she thought she did. When I first read the page, I was thinking Kat and/or some of the other girls should walk out with her. fish made the suggestion of Margo, I couldn't agree more! |
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Post by Jelly Jellybean on Mar 17, 2015 22:22:52 GMT
... Back to the veiled communication thing, I may be reading too much into it, but did anyone else find it odd that he told Annie go to go the "rest room"? "Restroom" or "bathroom" aren't typically used in the UK (it's an American term - I was made fun of for saying both when visiting the UK!), so perhaps it's supposed to be taken as some kind of hint to Annie? Again, I realize that's something of a long shot. But it wouldn't surprise me if Annie is able to read far more into the makeup removal comment in general than we're able to. Anthony was hiding in the US for two years and is being a jerk because he has yet to drop his American persona? What a twist!  |
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Post by xtinas on Mar 17, 2015 22:36:37 GMT
I will say, however, that " But I had good intentions" can only forgive a certain number of sins. And boy he has to account for a lot. This is the truest thing ever. |
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Post by dinmaker on Mar 17, 2015 22:48:32 GMT
I'm thinking Antimony is having a nightmare
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Post by Jelly Jellybean on Mar 17, 2015 22:55:55 GMT
I'm thinking Antimony is having a nightmare Surma wakes up Annie and says "My discharge paperwork is done, we can leave now." The End. |
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Post by TBeholder on Mar 17, 2015 23:17:18 GMT
Back to the veiled communication thing, I may be reading too much into it, but did anyone else find it odd that he told Annie go to go the "rest room"? "Restroom" or "bathroom" aren't typically used in the UK (it's an American term - I was made fun of for saying both when visiting the UK!), Now that's a catch. so perhaps it's supposed to be taken as some kind of hint to Annie? Again, I realize that's something of a long shot. But it wouldn't surprise me if Annie is able to read far more into the makeup removal comment in general than we're able to. She is rather prone to conclusion-jumping and rabbit hole exploration missions - like when she lashed at Mort, or that time. Of course, the chance that she will read in this will be whatever Anthony meant (if any), is... yeah, right. I still doubt that he meant anything beyond "this distract me from the job too much". Anthony was hiding in the US for two years and is being a jerk because he has yet to drop his American persona? What a twist! Ze mysteery ees solved! Hehehe. You are devious.  |
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Post by youwiththeface on Mar 17, 2015 23:30:11 GMT
Hey, don't worry about it; Annie's still got Reynardine and Ysengrin! Dog parents are the best parents! Leaving aside the fact that Reynardine is a killer and Ysengrin is insane.... Ah, but what does it tell us about Anthony Carver that a killer and a crazy have been able to do more good for Annie then he has these last two years? I'm not expecting Annie's dad to be completely black because Gunnerkrigg Court has been very good about painting with shades of gray, but the fact that his absence has obviously had a profound affect on Antimony, she has yet to address her feelings about it and instead has consistently made excuses for him makes me think that her coming to terms with his flaws and how he's hurt her is something she's going to have to do now that he's back in the picture. Like her breaking down at the tree with Kat about her mum. |
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Post by Gotolei on Mar 18, 2015 0:36:33 GMT
More random thoughts that may or may not be relevant to the rest of the discussion: Annie apparently has a history of doing well in biology class, with the more math-based sciences being a problem. Also can't forget this.Kinda wonder if the court allows students to drop classes..? Or perhaps there's more than one biology teacher, and she could simply transfer if it becomes a problem? (it's already a problem) Guess it comes down to if any of the supportive cast (eggers, jones, donlans..) have enough string-pulling power or not. |
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Post by Deepbluediver on Mar 18, 2015 0:41:59 GMT
Even a mediocre relationship still offers plenty of benefits over a non-existent one IMO. No. As someone who has excised an aunt and a step-father for being horrific human beings with actively harmful effects on mine and my family's well-being, no. Some people just aren't worth the stress, anxiety, and depression they perpetuate. Sometimes those people are your family. (Note: I do not necessarily think Anthony is quite to that stage yet, but he's beginning to show himself as being of that ilk. If so, the best thing for Annie would be to just remove him from her life). We can disagree, but please understand that I think there is a difference between a bad relationship and a mediocre one as well. There are things that I feel a family can offer you that are really difficult to get outside of that. Knowing how broken up Antimony was/is over the death of her mother should prove that point fairly well. I feel bad for your break-ups, and correct me if I'm wrong, but getting to that point and making that decision probably wasn't easy for you, right? All I'm saying is that Annie shouldn't be in a rush to cut the filial anchor-chain just yet. Jettisoning a family member should be a last resort, IMO. Plus, you probably still have other family members to rely on- barring the introduction of a new character, her dad might be the only family that Antimony has left. Leaving aside the fact that Reynardine is a killer and Ysengrin is insane.... Ah, but what does it tell us about Anthony Carver that a killer and a crazy have been able to do more good for Annie then he has these last two years? I'm not expecting Annie's dad to be completely black because Gunnerkrigg Court has been very good about painting with shades of gray, but the fact that his absence has obviously had a profound affect on Antimony, she has yet to address her feelings about it and instead has consistently made excuses for him makes me think that her coming to terms with his flaws and how he's hurt her is something she's going to have to do now that he's back in the picture. Like her breaking down at the tree with Kat about her mum. Let me be clear- I'm not defending Anthony's actions up to this point. However I don't think they prove he's strictly evil either, given how little we know about him overall. I'm HOPING things turn out better in the end, and as you pointed out MANY characters in the story are more grey than white or black, so I'm willing to give him a shot to not end up being a total ponce/tosser/arse. |
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Post by imaginaryfriend on Mar 18, 2015 1:11:35 GMT
Welcome to the forums, fay, gunnerwf, linchie and youwiththeface, and anyone else I missed! My personal feeling is that Anthony just showed up that morning and presumed he would be allowed to teach...and he was. Observation: For that to be true Anthony Carver would need the strong support of (at least) a faction within the Court and no objection from any other politically-significant faction. Might they even be attempting The moment you lump Anthony with the Court heads, you run into the question of why did he go to such ridiculous length to keep secrets from them. It is not known who Antimony was hiding from. Since he's supposedly been disappearing since he was a kid it is even possible he's not hiding from anyone in particular. Consider the following example from my own humble work experience: I once had the misfortune of working in a place where I had (arguably) six bosses. Only one of them had ever worked anywhere that I'd consider a "real job" but all were experts at navigating the twisted political structure there. I quickly learned to hide anything/everything I was doing or planning on doing because it wasn't worth the endless explanations, second-guessing and backseat driving from people who had no idea what my work (or any real work) required. It was just easier to just get work done and then get any required permission after the fact from all the little bosses. Armored by success and only there for a couple months, I did my job there and split. Since I didn't draw a paycheck from that place and had no need to advance within the structure (and didn't give a fig if anyone there liked me or not) it worked out brilliantly. My point is that if Anthony Carver dislikes dealing with people he may hide out even though NOBODY is looking for him (except Antimony and the Donlans). It's canon that Surma's makeup is significant and has special properties, so perhaps that could be the reason It's canon? Links, please? I think it was formsprung that the makeup was special and significant, but that is not quite the same thing as saying that the makeup itself has special properties as compared to other makeup. I think it was even formsprung that Antimony buys it, so if there is special enchantment it is probably not by virtue of its composition but something else done to it post-purchase. "Ridiculous" injects his opinion on her makeup and is unprofessional. This requires Anthony to have some form of basic human ability to tell what is ridiculous. Let me doubt this until there's some slightest hint he may have any sense of humor, let it be tiny and vestigal.  More likely, he awkwardly tries to hide his own ruffled feathers - which he did before. Why he said what he said is open to debate but it is what it is. That single word-choice makes what he said into an attack whether he knows it or not. Since the Anthony/Ikari Gendo comparison has come up again I'll mention for the benefit of newcomers to the forum that I explored the idea in a fancomic back in 2012. Oh god...your fancomic made me realize that Anthony Carver could try to really pull a plan to turn Annie into Surma...she's physically almost identical, and has the same lifeforce, all he would have to do is wipe her memories and somehow recover Surna memories from the Ether...  I hope he doesn't try that, because that would be the creepiest thing ever...  It's always been a possibility. Last chapter we learned that the Court can grow blank bodies, so all he would really need is a genetic sample of Surma (a hair, skin cells from an old sweater, or perhaps even a sample from Antimony in a pinch), the fire from Surma's line or a substitute, and whatever part of Surma that was guided into the ether. I assume the fire is the real sticking point and we know he's been experimenting with it, thanks to the bonelasers incident. |
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Post by Chancellor on Mar 18, 2015 1:17:38 GMT
Leaving aside the fact that Reynardine is a killer and Ysengrin is insane.... Ah, but what does it tell us about Anthony Carver that a killer and a crazy have been able to do more good for Annie then he has these last two years? I'm not expecting Annie's dad to be completely black because Gunnerkrigg Court has been very good about painting with shades of gray, but the fact that his absence has obviously had a profound affect on Antimony, she has yet to address her feelings about it and instead has consistently made excuses for him makes me think that her coming to terms with his flaws and how he's hurt her is something she's going to have to do now that he's back in the picture. Like her breaking down at the tree with Kat about her mum. Hell, the immortal quasi-human super being who claims to merely mimic normal person behavior, the cruise ship deck-sized supercrab who cannot experience loneliness, a 3Dimensional shadow creature, the dragonslayer/gym teacher that was madly in love with her mother, and a kid who started out as a stereotypical jerkass bully a have/do present more approachable friends, mentors and sources of support than her father. |
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Post by warrl on Mar 18, 2015 7:21:20 GMT
Another consideration: How is this going to go over with the other kids, and impact his ability to teach them?
It will soon be (to the extent that it isn't already) common knowledge that:
* Mr. Carver disappeared when his wife died, leaving a 12-year-old daughter to strangers
* He made no attempt to communicate with that daughter for nearly three years
* He showed up to teach, and STILL made no attempt to even let her know he was there
* In the first few minutes of the first day of his teaching, he singled her out and insulted her.
He has, if he is VERY lucky, 48 hours to somehow turn this around.
Otherwise...
if I were the headmaster, I'd be looking at how quickly I could remove him from the classroom.
Because very few students will have any respect for him as a teacher, or as a person. Which will make effective teaching nearly impossible.
(Side note: expecting Annie to address him as "Sir" *in class* is quite proper. The fact that this had to be dealt with in class, is not; it should have been handled in a several-hour private meeting , or one of a series of shorter meetings, between the two during the previous week. A meeting which, by all available evidence, did not happen.)
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Post by stef1987 on Mar 18, 2015 8:49:32 GMT
Please, please tell me you're kidding. The moral high ground is jumped upon so often that not even grass grows on it. Claiming also an exclusive narrow golden gate to it is just ridiculous - it stands in an open field. And either way, the instincts in question obviously can't be parental. Actually, no, I totally agree with fish on this. The use of "everyone" may be a hyperbole (haven't we already argued about those on this thread?) but it's an entirely reasonable component for why there's so much argument over what would otherwise be a pretty small deal. Other times that we argue, it's usually over bigger-world issues such as LGBT rights or the ethics of pornography. We (the readers) have seen Annie mature from a young, fragile, and emotionally-stunted preteen into a relatively happy and emotionally-normal human(/elemental). Throughout the entire comic Tom has followed how she is coming out of her shell, so to speak. Furthermore, we've known all along that, regardless of any justifications, Annie's time in the hospital with a dying mother and distant father is almost certainly what led Annie to develop her emotional blocks and her 'mask' over her true feelings. We care about her as a character, and would hate to see her suffer. And then her father returns, and again regardless of any justifications, embarrasses her in front of her peers as nearly his first words. I think it's entirely reasonable to say that many of us are inflamed because we feel protective of Annie. If that's not parental instincts, I don't know what is. And echoing edzepp, the fact that we're emotionally connected to a fictional character is a hallmark of good writing. And where did fish every imply that it was the only reason to be irritated? Calm down, man. Well said. I never thought about it that way, but I guess you're right. |
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Post by TBeholder on Mar 18, 2015 8:53:19 GMT
He has, if he is VERY lucky, 48 hours to somehow turn this around. Otherwise... if I were the headmaster, I'd be looking at how quickly I could remove him from the classroom. Because very few students will have any respect for him as a teacher, or as a person. True enough. Which will make effective teaching nearly impossible. Not necessarily true. In part, because they may respect him as a specialist and "I'll SHOW YOU!" is a valid motivation - especially in mad science. As to his superiors, "something like this was bound to happen" could be intended as a lesson on inductive logic (see my crazy hypothesis above) and on prioritizing "business" over "me liek!/not liek!". Remember, it's the same organization that quietly encourages the students to hack security equipment, etc. It's full of birds immeasurably 1 more downy than Kat's head pigeon. (Side note: expecting Annie to address him as "Sir" *in class* is quite proper. The fact that this had to be dealt with in class, is not; it should have been handled in a several-hour private meeting , or one of a series of shorter meetings, between the two during the previous week. A meeting which, by all available evidence, did not happen.) By all available evidence and as painfully obvious to that whole class, yes. ( 1) but they would try. |
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Post by SilverbackRon on Mar 18, 2015 18:43:26 GMT
Another consideration: How is this going to go over with the other kids, and impact his ability to teach them? It will soon be (to the extent that it isn't already) common knowledge that: * Mr. Carver disappeared when his wife died, leaving a 12-year-old daughter to strangers * He made no attempt to communicate with that daughter for nearly three years * He showed up to teach, and STILL made no attempt to even let her know he was there * In the first few minutes of the first day of his teaching, he singled her out and insulted her. He has, if he is VERY lucky, 48 hours to somehow turn this around. Otherwise... if I were the headmaster, I'd be looking at how quickly I could remove him from the classroom. Because very few students will have any respect for him as a teacher, or as a person. Which will make effective teaching nearly impossible. (Side note: expecting Annie to address him as "Sir" *in class* is quite proper. The fact that this had to be dealt with in class, is not; it should have been handled in a several-hour private meeting , or one of a series of shorter meetings, between the two during the previous week. A meeting which, by all available evidence, did not happen.) I agree with everything you say except about the part regarding the headmaster. From all evidence so far, he is as big of an Asshat as Anthony and would probably see this all as a bunch of fuss over trivial matters. In fact it may well play into his hand, whatever THAT may be. |
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Post by mordekai on Mar 18, 2015 18:58:47 GMT
Oh god...your fancomic made me realize that Anthony Carver could try to really pull a plan to turn Annie into Surma...she's physically almost identical, and has the same lifeforce, all he would have to do is wipe her memories and somehow recover Surna memories from the Ether... I hope he doesn't try that, because that would be the creepiest thing ever... It's always been a possibility. Last chapter we learned that the Court can grow blank bodies, so all he would really need is a genetic sample of Surma (a hair, skin cells from an old sweater, or perhaps even a sample from Antimony in a pinch), the fire from Surma's line or a substitute, and whatever part of Surma that was guided into the ether. I assume the fire is the real sticking point and we know he's been experimenting with it, thanks to the bonelasers incident. As I said CREEEEEEEEEEEEEEPY! ...But I think Anthony Carver is disturbed enought to try that... Another consideration: How is this going to go over with the other kids, and impact his ability to teach them? It will soon be (to the extent that it isn't already) common knowledge that: * Mr. Carver disappeared when his wife died, leaving a 12-year-old daughter to strangers * He made no attempt to communicate with that daughter for nearly three years * He showed up to teach, and STILL made no attempt to even let her know he was there * In the first few minutes of the first day of his teaching, he singled her out and insulted her. He has, if he is VERY lucky, 48 hours to somehow turn this around. Otherwise... if I were the headmaster, I'd be looking at how quickly I could remove him from the classroom. Because very few students will have any respect for him as a teacher, or as a person. Which will make effective teaching nearly impossible. You are assuming that the headmaster cares. It's clear that the teaching is only a little part of whatever the Court is doing. They pick "special" students and train them in case they are useful when they grow up, and they teach their own children so they can join the Court when they grow, but their main interests clearly go far beyond that. Anthony Carver has been brought to help develop the Court's projects. Letting him teach Annie's class probably was one of his conditions to accept the job. He has some nefarious plan for her... |
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Post by hifranc on Mar 18, 2015 20:59:19 GMT
Now obviously this comic is not meant to be realistic, but I wonder: is it normal in the British school system that teachers can teach their own children? In the schools I visited back when I grew up in Germany that situation was scrupulously avoided - at the beginning of each year the teachers worked out a plan that would ensure that a teacher's child only ever had other people as teachers. Obviously to avoid both preferential treatment and the "fa... um... sir" embarrassment so well illustrated here. So, is this a British thing or just a Gunnerkrigg Court thing? I can't speak for now but, when I was growing up, children of teachers were treated like any other children (i.e. if their parent taught a class that the other children in their group would take, they would take it, too). Similarly, parents were expected to treat their children like any other child in the class. |
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Post by warrl on Mar 19, 2015 0:22:02 GMT
You are assuming that the headmaster cares. Actually, no. I said that if *I* were the headmaster...  (Don't bother trying to figure out what strange sequence of events might lead to someone offering me the position - I don't want it. But if I had it, I'd consider it my duty to either care that much or immediately start seeking a replacement for myself.) |
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Post by Jelly Jellybean on Mar 19, 2015 0:50:38 GMT
You are assuming that the headmaster cares. Actually, no. I said that if *I* were the headmaster... (Don't bother trying to figure out what strange sequence of events might lead to someone offering me the position - I don't want it. But if I had it, I'd consider it my duty to either care that much or immediately start seeking a replacement for myself.) The headmaster, as Per once so elequently posited, has run out of F's to give. |
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Post by imaginaryfriend on Mar 19, 2015 1:55:02 GMT
It's always been a possibility. Last chapter we learned that the Court can grow blank bodies, so all he would really need is a genetic sample of Surma (a hair, skin cells from an old sweater, or perhaps even a sample from Antimony in a pinch), the fire from Surma's line or a substitute, and whatever part of Surma that was guided into the ether. I assume the fire is the real sticking point and we know he's been experimenting with it, thanks to the bonelasers incident. As I said CREEEEEEEEEEEEEEPY! ...But I think Anthony Carver is disturbed enought to try that... It is the lonely guys who turn creepy after they get a taste of affection, isn't it? |
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lit
Full Member
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Post by lit on Mar 19, 2015 4:56:11 GMT
I thought it would be interesting to point out similarities in themes between this chapter so far and the very beginning of Monster Pulse. The main character, Bina, who's a little younger than Antimony, starts off the comic as a student in her mother's class. Her mother calls her out for doodling in class, and when Bina replies "sorry, mom", her mother corrects her. The mother comes off as somewhat impatient, probably more than justified. Then Bina overhears her mother saying to another teacher that she would have preferred not to have Bina in her class. Bina takes this all pretty harshly. Their relationship is strained, but it's still a starkly different thing than what's happening in Gunnerkrigg, where Anthony has been out of contact for years and has never apparently bothered to outline to Annie how he expected her to behave in his class. |
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Post by antiyonder on Mar 19, 2015 19:44:04 GMT
Honestly, had he merely said, "I'm overlooking things today, but starting tomorrow, makeup is not going to be tolerated in class", then yeah he would come off as a legit authoritarian.
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Garbage
New Member
ANTHONY CARVER DEFENSE FORCE, 1ST LIEUTENANT OF THE SUPPORT DIVISION
Posts: 29 
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Post by Garbage on Mar 19, 2015 22:48:57 GMT
Now that it's the night before the update [it's 10:45pm here and updates come out around 7-8am], I think I should voice some concerns I've been having today about the future of Tony Carver.
I don't hate Tony right now, I'm not angry with him, he's being a total douchebag and shoddy father and all but the way i see him and interpret his past and self, I feel there are clear discernible reasons that aren't within his control. But I think that we aren't gonna get to see or know those exact reasons in-story, and with the theories bouncing around about the bone spires and Tony's hand etc, he was up to something that really will make him a bad guy, even if his intentions were far better than they might seem, I fear Tony's gonna become somewhat of an antagonist by accident, even if he means to be a hero and save his daughter [The theory that he's been trying to eradicate the fire-elemental within Annie]
In short, Tony isn't some kind of villain yet, but I fear Tom's gonna make him one in something of a foreseeable/cliche way.
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temnoc
Junior Member
Posts: 70
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Post by temnoc on Mar 20, 2015 13:08:38 GMT
Sidenote reaction: Well done Tom. I'm almost certain your intention was to get a rise out of the fans, and you've certainly done so. Now I'm interested to see where he takes this. You're talking about it like this requires an intention.  No you see, I think this is all part of the plan.  |
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Post by Chancellor on Mar 23, 2015 6:05:26 GMT
I'm thinking Antimony is having a nightmare Surma wakes up Annie and says "My discharge paperwork is done, we can leave now." The End. Could you even imagine? |
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Post by sapientcoffee on Mar 23, 2015 6:36:59 GMT
The forum would melt.
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Post by Daedalus on Mar 23, 2015 7:07:59 GMT
Tom's computer would melt into a puddle of silicon and plastic too, with the amount of hatemail he'd receive. |
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Post by Chancellor on Mar 23, 2015 7:10:13 GMT
Tom's computer would melt into a puddle of silicon and plastic too, with the amount of hatemail he'd receive. He'd then unveil the machine he'd designed to harness the heat of that flaming hatred as an energy source and become a global electricity mogul. Just as planned. |
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Post by Daedalus on Mar 23, 2015 7:11:46 GMT
Tom's computer would melt into a puddle of silicon and plastic too, with the amount of hatemail he'd receive. He'd then unveil the machine he'd designed to harness the heat of that flaming hatred as an energy source and become a global electricity mogul. Just as planned.  |
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More likely, he awkwardly tries to hide his own ruffled feathers - which he did before.
