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Post by Jelly Jellybean on Dec 31, 2014 12:38:26 GMT
On the third branch, if that is Coyote on the right side then maybe the crescent moon on the left side represents the Court's equivalent, the Mecha-Angel.
I also noticed that there are no birds or bird motifs in this treatise.
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Post by Lightice on Dec 31, 2014 12:57:25 GMT
EDIT: Also, the ground beneath Annie's feet has no grass. It looks either like farmland or like burnt land, and I can't figure out which. Looks to me it has burned from her fire elemental powers. But you reminded me, there is a method of farming which involves burning down a swathe of wilderness; the ash is extremely fertile, so it yields a great harvest. Being on the Forest side, it could symbolise that promise of fertility. Has anyone mentioned yet the oddness of the alchemical symbol for the Sun being on Kat's side of the treatise, yet? It's curious, considering that the Court side is always the Moon, after all. And it stands opposite to Annie's Fire Elemental symbol. I wonder what that signifies... EDIT: Just want to speculate a few stuff. It's interesting that the upper triangle has the letters Gamma, Zeta, and...Iota. Who's Iota? Is it supposed to be 'J' because there's no letter J in Greek Alphabet? (Jones?) Interesting indeed. Just as interesting is the fact that Gamma and Iota seem to emerge from Zeta in terms of their positioning on the triangle. I would have expected Zeta and Gamma to be side by side considering their now-balanced relationship. Could this be a suggestion that Zimmy unwittingly gives powers to others, like Coyote? It would be a convenient explanation why Gamma just happened to appear with the exact abilities that Zimmy needed to cope with her condition. And that would probably make Iota Jack. But maybe I'm running too far with this speculation... |
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Post by hurston on Dec 31, 2014 13:08:58 GMT
Regarding the greek letters, Iota is the same distance from Zeta through the alphabet as Zeta is from Gamma. I'm not sure if that is relevant.
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Post by psibakaonna on Dec 31, 2014 13:18:50 GMT
Regarding the triangles themselves, they're actually the symbols for fire and water respectively. Fire should be the one pointing up, and so would be associated with Annie, and water should be the one pointing down, and so should be associated with Kat. So I guess the symbols within the points would be associated with either Kat or Annie depending on the triangle and then associated with either the court, forrest or both depending on the point? Might make it easier to guess which characters they're associated with?
Just my two cents.
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Post by Jelly Jellybean on Dec 31, 2014 14:18:11 GMT
On the third branch, if that is Coyote on the right side then maybe the crescent moon on the left side represents the Court's equivalent, the Mecha-Angel. I also noticed that there are no birds or bird motifs in this treatise. Now that I've thought about it more, the crescent moon symbol kind of reminds me of howTom has represented Anja's etheric computer. At least the colors scheme seems similar. |
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Post by imaginaryfriend on Dec 31, 2014 14:36:27 GMT
I don't see a Paz. Combine that with the heart crossed out from the previous one and the comment that Paz is unlucky and that spells bad news for the PazKat shippers, I am thinking...
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shadowhunter
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Post by shadowhunter on Dec 31, 2014 14:54:59 GMT
Do those twigs in Annie's hair look like arrows to anyone else? Is this an obvious, deliberate thing? I can't really unsee it, and it's creeping me out a little. :/
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tlo
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Post by tlo on Dec 31, 2014 15:03:08 GMT
Yeah, some people said it. But first looking at the page, the doll at the base of the tree was definitely Hetty to me. Because I saw a doll, not a robot xD Pluss, that's her symbol on its head, I'm pretty sure.
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Post by calpal on Dec 31, 2014 15:07:05 GMT
SM seems like a very unique one... I took some time looking into it, and wikepedia (oh no!) has given me a few hints: 1) Sm could be the periodic symbol for Samarium, which is a silvery-white material with some interesting applications. 2) SM could also stand for the Standard Model Theory, which is, uniquely enough, referred to as "The Theory of Everything". |
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Post by Deepbluediver on Dec 31, 2014 15:23:23 GMT
Between Kat's shoes and pants and Annie's pocahontas-outfit, is anyone else getting a Pilgrims-and-Indians vibe?
Is it just me or was it just so obvious no one else felt the need to bring it up?
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Post by elemenofy on Dec 31, 2014 15:44:43 GMT
My thoughts (Wall of Text Warning) ..... On the Greek letters: It's clear the letters Zeta and Gamma refer to the people they are named with. However, the letter Iota appears a mystery. Looking at their names, this can refer to either or both Jack and Jenny. Jack is a diminutive of John and Jenny is a diminutive of Jane in medieval times. In Biblical Greek, they are Ionnes and Ionna respectively. (behindthename.com, 2014) This may be a hint that now, Jack and Jenny should be considered together, especially in light of what dynamic these two have going in the chapter we just finished. And of course, that means these four characters probably have some great role involving each other with regards to the story, and not just between themselves if we the position of this relationship (the big up [fire] triangle) into account too. Maybe. ^^ Love this great research!! Bold is mine for emphasis. Everybody should read the whole of this post under the spoilers - it would be easy to gloss over in this thread, but Ophel has so many great things behind the cut. This is just my favorite. Jack / Jenny = Ionnes / Ionna, completing the Zimmy / Gamma / J (Iota: Jack / Jenny) triangle. ................. Has anyone else noticed the lurking shadow of a tall man on Annie / The Forest's side of the Treatise? His long legs start just below the bush, his body is behind Ysengrin and his head is right next to Y under the moon. Who could that be? Is it the shadow of Anthony Carver? Or could it be Daniel R. Schiff - the shadow of the man Reynard killed looming in the background? The latter makes sense considering Quicksilver + the doll / Hetty's presence on this page. The former would be cool, because it might mean we get to learn more about Anthony in the coming book. The latter is also cool, however, because it offers strong support that Quicksilver is a lynchpin (important) chapter for the entire story, not just a one-off to round out Rey's character like so many feared and bemoaned while the chapter was publishing. On the moon above Kat - my first impression was of Jones, the Wandering Eye. Mainly because I was looking for: who on the court side could be placed in the mirror-image spot of Coyote the Sun? Only Jones could fill that role and create the symmetry needed. Also, it's placement reminded me of Jones' wandering eye symbol in the sky / next to satellites in previous treatises. But other than that, I have no evidence. |
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Post by calpal on Dec 31, 2014 16:04:32 GMT
My thoughts (Wall of Text Warning) ..... On the Greek letters: It's clear the letters Zeta and Gamma refer to the people they are named with. However, the letter Iota appears a mystery. Looking at their names, this can refer to either or both Jack and Jenny. Jack is a diminutive of John and Jenny is a diminutive of Jane in medieval times. In Biblical Greek, they are Ionnes and Ionna respectively. (behindthename.com, 2014) This may be a hint that now, Jack and Jenny should be considered together, especially in light of what dynamic these two have going in the chapter we just finished. And of course, that means these four characters probably have some great role involving each other with regards to the story, and not just between themselves if we the position of this relationship (the big up [fire] triangle) into account too. Maybe. Has anyone else noticed the lurking shadow of a tall man on Annie / The Forest's side of the Treatise? His long legs start just below the bush, his body is behind Ysengrin and his head is right next to Y under the moon. Who could that be? Is it the shadow of Anthony Carver? Or could it be Daniel R. Schiff - the shadow of the man Reynard killed looming in the background? The latter makes sense considering Quicksilver + the doll / Hetty's presence on this page. The former would be cool, because it might mean we get to learn more about Anthony in the coming book. The latter is also cool, however, because it offers strong support that Quicksilver is a lynchpin (important) chapter for the entire story, not just a one-off to round out Rey's character like so many feared and bemoaned while the chapter was publishing. Or it could represent the Shadowmen created by Coyote. It might mean we'll learn more about Coyote's mythos, specifically regarding the Shadowmen, or we'll learn more about Shadow himself. Edit: Nice catch, by the way! Never would've seen it until you pointed it out! |
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Post by ctso74 on Dec 31, 2014 16:12:39 GMT
The things that stick out to me are:
The grouping of Zimmy, Gamma, and Jack (Z, Γ, and I).
The grouping of ?, Annie, and Rey (SM, "fire triangle", and quicksilver?). SM? Smitty? Space Man Carver?
A stretched shadow on Annie/Forest side. Maybe, Anthony Craver.
Rey is backed with fire(Annie), while Y is backed by a mixture of moon and dotted circle(a robot symbol). He originally hid the Tic-toc, when Anie fell from the bridge. Maybe, he has thoughtd and plans Coyote doesn't know about.
(The oddest one) Mort's helmet on Annie's side is paired with a Hetty-like anatomy doll on Kat's side. Is Kat going to pschopomp a creation? Hetty was trapped, but was it by the Court? Has the Court ever trapped someone in a robot? Would it still be a robot after that?
As always, looking forward to it. Happy New Year.
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yla
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Post by yla on Dec 31, 2014 16:18:19 GMT
Yaay, it's mental puzzle time  |
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Post by calpal on Dec 31, 2014 16:27:29 GMT
Rey is backed with fire(Annie), while Y is backed by a mixture of moon and dotted circle(a robot symbol). He originally hid the Tic-toc, when Anie fell from the bridge. Maybe, he has thoughtd and plans Coyote doesn't know about. Or it's Coyote with the plans that Ysengrin doesn't know about. Remember that Coyote has taken memories away from Ysengrin, most prominently when he last attacked Annie and felt extreme regret over his actions. Coyote had the Tic Toc, not Ysengrin, but for what purposes we've yet to find out about. |
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Demonsul
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Post by Demonsul on Dec 31, 2014 16:53:52 GMT
Leaves grow through the cracks of the wall in the foreground left... the robots march to a new sermon on a hill... the court is not the eternal edifice it seems.
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Post by Jelly Jellybean on Dec 31, 2014 17:34:05 GMT
Do those twigs in Annie's hair look like arrows to anyone else? Is this an obvious, deliberate thing? I can't really unsee it, and it's creeping me out a little. :/ If you can't avoid seeing it, try thinking about Steve Martin.  And Tom does play the banjo. |
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Post by Jelly Jellybean on Dec 31, 2014 17:58:35 GMT
On the moon above Kat - my first impression was of Jones, the Wandering Eye. Mainly because I was looking for: who on the court side could be placed in the mirror-image spot of Coyote the Sun? Only Jones could fill that role and create the symmetry needed. Also, it's placement reminded me of Jones' wandering eye symbol in the sky / next to satellites in previous treatises. But other than that, I have no evidence. It does look like an eye. If you zoom in you can see a darker circle (pupil) under the horizontal lines in the "shadow" of the crescent. Looks like it is looking to the right side of the treatise. The only argument I can think to counter the idea that it represent Jones is that Jones isn't supposed to take sides. I took a closer look at the pages that show manifestations of Anja's computer and the only similarity I can find to back up my speculation that the moon symbol might represent her computer is the color. Really thin at best. Going back to my first comment that the moon symbol may represent the Mecha-Angel, the glimpse of the Mecha-Angel we've seen didn't have visible eyes. Just things going into her head where the eyes should be. Somewhat similar to how Coyote sometimes appears in the ether, but Coyote has a blue ribbon with multiple "eyes". The Mecha-Angel seems to have ribbon cables for eyelashes and four really disturbing feeds (a ribbon with multiple "eyes", barbed wire, spear tips, and a backbone???). So the crescent moon symbol has me stumped. A Tic-Toc eye in purple even though the ones we've seen had orangish eyes? |
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Post by Señor Goose on Dec 31, 2014 18:02:57 GMT
Oh wow, I thought I'd seen the last of the treatises.
One of the things I love about the treatises is that they're so full of symbolism that I'm nowhere near smart enough to decipher.
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Post by TBeholder on Dec 31, 2014 18:28:14 GMT
Hi, lurker here. Just want to speculate a few stuff. It's interesting that the upper triangle has the letters Gamma, Zeta, and...Iota. Who's Iota? Is it supposed to be 'J' because there's no letter J in Greek Alphabet? (Jones?) Either Jack or Jenny would fit better.  Samarium[ /a], which is a silvery-white material with some interesting applications. If "interesting applications" are Sm-Co alloys, those are cool, but unfortunately so fragile they fit more with this than with this. |
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sotha
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Post by sotha on Dec 31, 2014 18:35:06 GMT
I just want to say that this is the most beautiful yet. Wonderful composition.
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mariposa
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Post by mariposa on Dec 31, 2014 19:20:17 GMT
I'm pretty sure the "doll" is not Hetty, but rather the old robot from the tomb that Kat brought back to life and then subsequently killed. Its death mirrors Mort's. But maybe it represents both the robot and Hetty?
I'm inclined to believe the shadow on the forest side is Shadow, if only because he isn't represented anywhere else.
Ominous red backlighting on Robot is ominous.
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Post by Jelly Jellybean on Dec 31, 2014 19:27:44 GMT
I am home with the flu and I don't know I've been looking at this treatise for too long, or if it is the flu, but... I sort see the faces of the Mecha-Angel and the Fire Elemental split-screen in the background. The colors match. No eyes or disturbing appendages, but the dark splotches on the left kind of look like the Mecha-Angel's skull fractures and the line of splotches on the right (under the base of the lower branch) kind of look like Annie's etheric scar. I know this is stretch, but now I can't stop seeing it. |
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Post by keef on Dec 31, 2014 19:28:44 GMT
Oh wow, I thought I'd seen the last of the treatises. One of the things I love about the treatises is that they're so full of symbolism that I'm nowhere near smart enough to decipher. We have our finest minds analyzing His treatise.. So you and I can take a day off. |
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Post by Jelly Jellybean on Dec 31, 2014 19:34:39 GMT
I'm pretty sure the "doll" is not Hetty, but rather the old robot from the tomb that Kat brought back to life and then subsequently killed. Its death mirrors Mort's. But maybe it represents both the robot and Hetty? I'm inclined to believe the shadow on the forest side is Shadow, if only because he isn't represented anywhere else. Ominous red backlighting on Robot is ominous. I thought the same at first, but I am convinced that it is Hetty's symbol on the forehead of the doll (without its hair or clothing). Like Mort, Hetty has passed into the ether. |
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Post by warrl on Dec 31, 2014 19:50:15 GMT
A certain fairy is in the bush near Annie's feet.
I think the thing just above Kat's head may be a lunar eclipse. (Or, possible but IMHO less likely, a solar eclipse.) If so, the outer circle with the fringe is essentially a frame or porthole or equivalent.
The ruined wall in the foreground near Kat's feet is fake, or at least it is very oddly well-maintained for ruins. There are no partial bricks, no odd clumps of mortar on top of bricks, no odd discolorations, basically very little evidence of years of neglect. (Some of the bricks do appear to be cracked, but with no significant pieces missing.)
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mangotango
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"Isn't it funny how the most unforgettable scenes can be so trivial ?"
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Post by mangotango on Dec 31, 2014 20:57:25 GMT
I honestly think that it goes deeper thank this, but I'm preeeetty sure the moon on Kat's side and the lines on it at least first refer to the fingerprint Annie left on it that one time, maybe symbolizing Annie's connections to both the Court while still being involved in the woods, or how she affects Kat's life as much as Kat affects hers (how the tree on Annie's side has a color scheme a little related to the cherry tree) Speaking of the tree, the tree in the middle it not only reminded me of the tree of life, but it does remind me of Annie and Kat's relationship, and how, even if they're from different sides, they're still as close as they were under the cherry tree that day. or maybe I might just be looking a little tooo much into it? who knows !! |
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Post by keef on Dec 31, 2014 21:32:00 GMT
Ysengrin's body looks stronger, and he's more of a natural-looking wolf. Perhaps he does become more mentally and physically stable after Chapter 44.  He is in all treatises, except the first. His ear seams to be healing, and he may be shaking off the tree body. Annie's friendship is doing him good, and he sees eye to eye with Renard Do those twigs in Annie's hair look like arrows to anyone else? Is this an obvious, deliberate thing? I can't really unsee it, and it's creeping me out a little. :/ She had twigs in her hair in treatise 5, but these look healthier. Twigs in her hair may be a reference to Surma Has anyone else noticed the lurking shadow of a tall man on Annie / The Forest's side of the Treatise? His long legs start just below the bush, his body is behind Ysengrin and his head is right next to Y under the moon. Who could that be? Is it the shadow of Anthony Carver? Or could it be Daniel R. Schiff ... Good catch! I really would like to see Anthony, but wouldn't he come from the Court side? I am home with the flu and I don't know I've been looking at this treatise for too long, or if it is the flu, but... I sort see the faces of the Mecha-Angel and the Fire Elemental split-screen in the background. The colors match. No eyes or disturbing appendages, but the dark splotches on the left kind of look like the Mecha-Angel's skull fractures and the line of splotches on the right (under the base of the lower branch) kind of look like Annie's etheric scar. I know this is stretch, but now I can't stop seeing it. Get well soon, and to be honest, I'm pretty sure it's the flu.. I'm not gonna tell you what I see when I stare long enough.. |
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Post by Jelly Jellybean on Dec 31, 2014 21:32:03 GMT
Honestly, I am trying to stop. At least this post is a compilation of additional observations... Coyote: - The Sun&Eye symbol (Coyote) is looking down at Annie. We know Coyote he is really interested in Annie, probably because she’s the newest thing to come along in at least the last couple years. What I also find it interesting is that the Sun&Eye is not looking at the Court or Kat. I think that is indirect support for the notion that Coyote doesn’t know much about Kat. But I don’t know how a god that exists across time doesn’t know about the Mecha-Angel. Maybe he knows about the Mecha-Angel but doesn’t know the connection to Kat. Or he knows and he just doesn’t care because it is too boring. - There is a Coyote eye on Annie’s dress. It is hard to tell, but I think it is looking up at Annie. Bea in the page comments: - “Also...is it just me or has the moon been waning over the last few treatises? What happens when it's fully dark?” - I think Bea may be right. The first and second treatises has waning gibbous (3/4) moons. There is no moon in the third treatise (except the one on the wall poster). The fourth treatise has a third quarter (1/2) moon. The fifth and sixth treatise has a waning crescent (1/4) moon. Vines on the Court walls: - There are vines growing on the Court-side of the bridge in the the third treatise (in the lower right corner). |
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Post by Daedalus on Dec 31, 2014 21:43:35 GMT
Kat is wearing Diego's apron. Going back to my first comment that the moon symbol may represent the Mecha-Angel, the glimpse of the Mecha-Angel we've seen didn't have visible eyes. Just things going into her head where the eyes should be. Somewhat similar to how Coyote sometimes appears in the ether, but Coyote has a blue ribbon with multiple "eyes". The Mecha-Angel seems to have ribbon cables for eyelashes and four really disturbing feeds (a ribbon with multiple "eyes", barbed wire, spear tips, and a backbone???). I always had the headcanon that the pigeon on her head acts as her eyes and those ribbon cables connect to it by looping around the panel, but I have nothing to back that up really. So the crescent moon symbol has me stumped. A Tic-Toc eye in purple even though the ones we've seen had orangish eyes? To me it just seems symbolic of the changing dynamic of Rey and Yssy. The moon is a peaceful symbol, and it seemed that Ysengrin was becoming calmer after this page. Or perhaps they're heraldic, and Rey's going to be closer to the Forest again, while Ysengrin will hate the Court less in the future? Both, to my eyes, seem like non-ominous symbols. On the third branch, if that is Coyote on the right side then maybe the crescent moon on the left side represents the Court's equivalent, the Mecha-Angel. I also noticed that there are no birds or bird motifs in this treatise. I like the idea of that opposites theme with RoboKat, but it seems a stretch without more clear symbolism about the moon. And the lack of birds disturbs me too... Has anyone else noticed the lurking shadow of a tall man on Annie / The Forest's side of the Treatise? I totally missed that! Also, getting vibes of Slenderman. Just want to speculate a few stuff. It's interesting that the upper triangle has the letters Gamma, Zeta, and...Iota. Who's Iota? Is it supposed to be 'J' because there's no letter J in Greek Alphabet? (Jones?) I would guess Jack. Huh. If that diagram represented Zimmy, Gamma, and Jack, you know what it would be? A love triangle! (ba dum psht!) |
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