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Post by Jelly Jellybean on Jul 31, 2017 2:35:23 GMT
Tom didn't really say anything about the Seraphs bestowing the symbol of the Creator on Kat. I guess he can't say much without getting into stuff that won't appear until later chapters.
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Post by fia on Jul 31, 2017 13:59:46 GMT
Tom did seem to confirm though that the top-left symbol is an angel with photodiode symbols on it. I guess it's ethereal mecha angel Kat?
And now it seems clear that if the eye thingy on the right is Microsat 5 it represents Annie's father.
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Post by Jelly Jellybean on Sept 18, 2017 10:45:33 GMT
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ST13R
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Quiet little mouse
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Post by ST13R on Dec 3, 2017 16:22:32 GMT
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Post by Jelly Jellybean on Dec 3, 2017 22:49:26 GMT
Quicksilver was not well received? The comic usually avoids cartoon villains and I thought Hetty was an interesting exception that had to be contained to just one chapter.
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Post by Runningflame on Dec 3, 2017 23:54:55 GMT
I like Quicksilver all right, but I always thought it was weird that Renard repents of killing someone by... er... killing someone.
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Post by maxptc on Dec 4, 2017 4:44:43 GMT
I like Quicksilver all right, but I always thought it was weird that Renard repents of killing someone by... er... killing someone. And it is kinda a slave killing another slave because she is willing to kill to not be a slave, albeit one with an unaware master. Like, just because he takes pride in being owned by Annie doesn't really mean killing other creatures is okay. I mean, I guess preventing another death is the greater good, and he seemed willing to go along with it up until he found out the boy had no clue what was happening. But that just raises more moral questions, like how he was okay with child murder up until then, and how he was willing to "betray" Hetty just because her tormenter was unaware. Whole thing left me thinking Rey is more then a little unhinged. |
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Post by Zox Tomana on Dec 4, 2017 7:38:25 GMT
I like Quicksilver all right, but I always thought it was weird that Renard repents of killing someone by... er... killing someone. And it is kinda a slave killing another slave because she is willing to kill to not be a slave, albeit one with an unaware master. Like, just because he takes pride in being owned by Annie doesn't really mean killing other creatures is okay. I mean, I guess preventing another death is the greater good, and he seemed willing to go along with it up until he found out the boy had no clue what was happening. But that just raises more moral questions, like how he was okay with child murder up until then, and how he was willing to "betray" Hetty just because her tormenter was unaware. Whole thing left me thinking Rey is more then a little unhinged. I never saw it that way. He was okay with Hetty making mischief under the impression that Hetty's "tormenter" was... and actual tormenter... and Hetty had not indicated directly an intention to kill Adam. His objections start when he first sees the kid, calling him a "just a child! mere wretch." Hetty speaks a bit, at which point Reynard then realizes Adam had no clue Hetty even existed. It's both of those statements, not just the last that has him say "I think you're taking this a little too far..." and Hetty's determination to find arsenic seems to be what solidifies his decision to stop Hetty. The parallel here is that Rey, to get free of his prison, was willing to kill Annie. Hetty is willing to kill Adam. Neither Annie nor Adam (at the times of the decisions) were willing or aware of the roles they were playing or the situations they were in. Reynard is, in a way, making right his error by preventing someone falling victim to the exact sort of thing he tried to do, and since clearly Hetty was not going to be convinced to not kill the boy, Rey decided to save Adam by killing her. In short: Rey wasn't okay with child-murder at any point in the chapter, because he didn't know they were dealing with a child at all until he sees Adam, nor does he necessarily have the impression that Hetty is going to do anything more than cause torment. |
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manxy
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Post by manxy on Dec 4, 2017 13:42:47 GMT
I like Quicksilver all right, but I always thought it was weird that Renard repents of killing someone by... er... killing someone. This is actually exactly why I like the chapter so much, especially when I'm re-reading the comic. It gives some deep character development to Reynard that sets him apart from other powerful creatures in the forest. Coyote claims to love humans, but rarely concerns himself with their feelings or with the consequences of manipulating them. And then you have Reynard, who has lived amongst humans for years (albeit involuntarily), and lived close to the consequences of his actions, and this chapter shows how he's developed a kind of empathy for people that Coyote completely lacks. Even though Coyote doesn't make an appearance in this chapter, it still sets up that major contrast between their motivations and personalities. |
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Post by Druplesnubb on Dec 5, 2017 13:45:08 GMT
I for one would be interested in reading the potential Hetty side-comic that Tom discusses.
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Post by aline on Dec 5, 2017 15:29:39 GMT
And it is kinda a slave killing another slave because she is willing to kill to not be a slave, albeit one with an unaware master. Like, just because he takes pride in being owned by Annie doesn't really mean killing other creatures is okay. I mean, I guess preventing another death is the greater good, and he seemed willing to go along with it up until he found out the boy had no clue what was happening. But that just raises more moral questions, like how he was okay with child murder up until then, and how he was willing to "betray" Hetty just because her tormenter was unaware. Whole thing left me thinking Rey is more then a little unhinged. There is no point at which Renard is okay with child murder in this chapter. Just because he talks with Hetty for a while and tries to find out what is going on doesn't mean he was ever going to let her murder a kid. She obviously gave a very oriented account of what was going on with her master before ("the evils he has done to me", "you know full well Adam has been a terror to me", and so on). Even so, Renard is dubious of her attempts at tormenting Adam when all she does is causing him a rash. He wasn't going to let her kill people. He may have entertained the idea of talking her out of it for a while, rather than killing her. Hetty is a slave, but murder isn't the only way out of slavery for her. Her master could set her free, for example. But Renard finds out she never even tried to talk to Adam. Someone like her could probably have manipulated or terrorized Adam into giving her up in a heartbeat if she wanted to. She chose to stay in the dark, and to punish him for imagined slights with obvious delight. There was no way to talk her out of murder because she wasn't doing it just to free herself. She was always a complete psychopath who enjoyed making her "master" suffer. So what was Renard supposed to do about it? He's a god and a creature of the forest who has zero trust in the laws of the Court. Passing judgment himself as he did is a morally grey area, but the logical thing to do from his point of view. And the only realistic alternative to prevent Hetty from killing Adam (and other people) was to imprison her. Let's not forget Renard has been the Court's prisoner for a decade or two before Annie found him. Does he think of that kind of prison as worse than death? It's a possibility. It's not like he was getting visitation rights. So yeah. That decision was morally grey, but unhinged? I wouldn't say that. |
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Post by maxptc on Dec 5, 2017 19:18:04 GMT
And it is kinda a slave killing another slave because she is willing to kill to not be a slave, albeit one with an unaware master. Like, just because he takes pride in being owned by Annie doesn't really mean killing other creatures is okay. I mean, I guess preventing another death is the greater good, and he seemed willing to go along with it up until he found out the boy had no clue what was happening. But that just raises more moral questions, like how he was okay with child murder up until then, and how he was willing to "betray" Hetty just because her tormenter was unaware. Whole thing left me thinking Rey is more then a little unhinged. There is no point at which Renard is okay with child murder in this chapter. Just because he talks with Hetty for a while and tries to find out what is going on doesn't mean he was ever going to let her murder a kid. She obviously gave a very oriented account of what was going on with her master before ("the evils he has done to me", "you know full well Adam has been a terror to me", and so on). Even so, Renard is dubious of her attempts at tormenting Adam when all she does is causing him a rash. He wasn't going to let her kill people. He may have entertained the idea of talking her out of it for a while, rather than killing her. Hetty is a slave, but murder isn't the only way out of slavery for her. Her master could set her free, for example. But Renard finds out she never even tried to talk to Adam. Someone like her could probably have manipulated or terrorized Adam into giving her up in a heartbeat if she wanted to. She chose to stay in the dark, and to punish him for imagined slights with obvious delight. There was no way to talk her out of murder because she wasn't doing it just to free herself. She was always a complete psychopath who enjoyed making her "master" suffer. So what was Renard supposed to do about it? He's a god and a creature of the forest who has zero trust in the laws of the Court. Passing judgment himself as he did is a morally grey area, but the logical thing to do from his point of view. And the only realistic alternative to prevent Hetty from killing Adam (and other people) was to imprison her. Let's not forget Renard has been the Court's prisoner for a decade or two before Annie found him. Does he think of that kind of prison as worse than death? It's a possibility. It's not like he was getting visitation rights. So yeah. That decision was morally grey, but unhinged? I wouldn't say that. While he might not be okay with the idea of murder at any point, he is at least okay with her tormenting what he must assume is a child, and being of minor help to that. I won't get into the she could have handled getting her freedom better, because it's one of those morally awkward topics. You hit the nail on the head with what else could he have done idea. He could have tried to not let it get to that point. Going along with her tormenting Adam even if Rey thinks he desveres it, then going from helpful friend to killer without making a real effort to fix thing peacefully and keeping the whole situation secret to begin with are all kinda unstable moves. Not saying Rey isnt a good friend and cool, he is, he just has a "What the heck was that dude" side to him. Rey isn't a very fair/good judge of character, at least until he knows people better. Otherwise, he probably could've noticed Hetty was crazy sooner. |
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Post by aline on Dec 5, 2017 20:44:54 GMT
While he might not be okay with the idea of murder at any point, he is at least okay with her tormenting what he must assume is a child, and being of minor help to that. Nah, he's surprised when he finds out Adam is a child ( This is your terrible Adam? He's just a child!) He thought he was helping her to play some pranks on a cruel master. Again, morally grey, but far from unhinged. You think with what we learn about Hetty's motivations and personality there were any ways to fix things peacefully? Because the only two options I see are "kill her" and "nail her to the door". I mean really.  She was never framed as a redeemable character in any way, shape or form. I disagree. I think they were all pretty predictable moves for his character, and his change of position merely reflects the change in the severity of the situation (pranks on the level of making somebody itchy vs. murder) and information on Hetty's prey (a master aware of his power and abusing it vs. a defenseless and innocent child). I don't think there is anything unstable about that. It's not what a human would do in the same situation, is all. But Renard isn't human and the Forest doesn't live by the same rules. Renard is making sane, rational decisions. His moral system is different from ours, but still relatable, I feel. I don’t see any reason to call him unhinged or unstable. He could have, I guess, but there wasn’t really a strong reason to investigate as long as she was mostly into small pranks. |
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Post by Zox Tomana on Dec 5, 2017 23:22:43 GMT
I won't get into the she could have handled getting her freedom better, because it's one of those morally awkward topics. Only because we're crippling the conversation with the real world connotations of "slavery" and the general fear people have of addressing it in any way that isn't the by-the-book manner. The thing about doing that, though, is that you can't really compare Hetty's situation with that of actual slaves. Hetty's master is 100% unaware she even exists, and instead of making kiddo aware and convincing him to say something as simple as "You're free." Hetty is choosing to torment and then murder the child. This is not comparable with the real-world slavery we are familiar with from, say, American History or in various modern news stories. Those people are stuck in situations with no easy way out. Hetty could very easily get out. There object of ownership contracts seem to be very much based on simple words and intentional acts of exchange. All Adam has to do is vocally disown her and BAM! Compare that to real world slaves who must either actively escape at risk to their lives, and/or fight against their captors, or hope someone becomes aware of what is going on and helps them. |
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Post by maxptc on Dec 6, 2017 1:40:08 GMT
I won't get into the she could have handled getting her freedom better, because it's one of those morally awkward topics. Only because we're crippling the conversation with the real world connotations of "slavery" and the general fear people have of addressing it in any way that isn't the by-the-book manner. The thing about doing that, though, is that you can't really compare Hetty's situation with that of actual slaves. Hetty's master is 100% unaware she even exists, and instead of making kiddo aware and convincing him to say something as simple as "You're free." Hetty is choosing to torment and then murder the child. This is not comparable with the real-world slavery we are familiar with from, say, American History or in various modern news stories. Those people are stuck in situations with no easy way out. Hetty could very easily get out. There object of ownership contracts seem to be very much based on simple words and intentional acts of exchange. All Adam has to do is vocally disown her and BAM! Compare that to real world slaves who must either actively escape at risk to their lives, and/or fight against their captors, or hope someone becomes aware of what is going on and helps them. I dunno, revealing herself to Adam may not have put her at risk via Adam, but the court is another matter. And if it was that simple, a diplomatic solution may have been possible even with Hetty being crazy. Hetty is nuts, but I just think there was options aside from first helping her gather material for "harmless parks" and killing her. Not saying it was evil, just that Rey's handling if the entire situation wasn't really that good. He was to trusting of Hetty before, then once he learnt his trust/idea of her was wrong he escalated right to killing her. Not that Rey is evil or that not doing anything would have been better, just that he went to killing pretty quick for the "good guys" otherwise featured. |
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Post by maxptc on Dec 6, 2017 2:05:57 GMT
While he might not be okay with the idea of murder at any point, he is at least okay with her tormenting what he must assume is a child, and being of minor help to that. Nah, he's surprised when he finds out Adam is a child ( This is your terrible Adam? He's just a child!) He thought he was helping her to play some pranks on a cruel master. Again, morally grey, but far from unhinged. You think with what we learn about Hetty's motivations and personality there were any ways to fix things peacefully? Because the only two options I see are "kill her" and "nail her to the door". I mean really. View AttachmentShe was never framed as a redeemable character in any way, shape or form. I disagree. I think they were all pretty predictable moves for his character, and his change of position merely reflects the change in the severity of the situation (pranks on the level of making somebody itchy vs. murder) and information on Hetty's prey (a master aware of his power and abusing it vs. a defenseless and innocent child). I don't think there is anything unstable about that. It's not what a human would do in the same situation, is all. But Renard isn't human and the Forest doesn't live by the same rules. Renard is making sane, rational decisions. His moral system is different from ours, but still relatable, I feel. I don’t see any reason to call him unhinged or unstable. He could have, I guess, but there wasn’t really a strong reason to investigate as long as she was mostly into small pranks. Not saying that your points aren't true (I think he was more surprised by the harmlessness of the boy, not that he was a boy/not an adult, but semantics) just that they make him a poor judge of character and a kinda dense meanie. If he just assumed the pranks we're okay, and the master was an adult who had it coming, he is still kind of a jerk. His going from "haha funny" to "to far you gotta die" on a dime is, at least to me, unsettling. Also, while Rey's morality and decision making process is different, so is Hettys. She saw what was being done to her as evil, and that little pranks and murder we're pretty comparable, heck she didn't understand the different types of killing (death in battle vs murder). That doesn't make either process right or less unsettling. Not saying Rey is like Hetty, he isn't insane, just that the whole situation doesn't paint Rey in a wholly positive light. Could Hetty be redeemed? I dunno, Rey killed the creepy doll before trying anything else. How would breaking the contract have effected her mental state? Would imprisonment with the court have been worse? Annie and Kat seem smart, maybe they would have had an idea. Just saying, secret friendships, killing when you think its needed and snap decisions are good qualities for a spy, but in freinds and loved ones they can be cause for alarm, but are always at least worth giving some thought. Of course, I am just playing devil's advocate since I liked Hetty. |
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Post by aline on Dec 6, 2017 7:53:07 GMT
he is still kind of a jerk Yes, a jerk I'll grant you. Could Hetty be redeemed? I dunno, Rey killed the creepy doll before trying anything else. Storywise, it was always her purpose to be a counterpoint to Renard. They are both in a similar situation. They both killed an innocent person before, both trapped in a doll, both bound by contract. But Renard built a relationship with Annie, examined his past actions, feels regret. Hetty yawns at all that, she's condescending about Renard's remorse, and instead of thinking about the consequences of her own actions, keeps descending into more and more evil. In the end, you can't redeem people against their will. They need to want it, at least a little. But I really don't like Hetty at all, so it's not like I was ever interested in her redemption arc anyway. |
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ST13R
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Post by ST13R on Feb 25, 2018 17:05:09 GMT
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Post by bgb16999 on Feb 28, 2018 1:03:52 GMT
I like how he lines up the retrospective videos with subsequent chapters that are relevant to the revisited chapter. It sort of adds an extra layer to the story.
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ST13R
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Post by ST13R on Jun 3, 2018 19:41:11 GMT
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Post by Jelly Jellybean on Jun 4, 2018 2:21:10 GMT
No comment from Tom about the stoner panel? I guess he doesn't want to call attention to it. |
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Post by keef on Aug 27, 2018 20:07:56 GMT
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ST13R
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Post by ST13R on Nov 11, 2018 13:41:46 GMT
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Post by Runningflame on Nov 11, 2018 20:07:38 GMT
That. Is. Brilliant. Cool things I never noticed on reread!
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Post by mturtle7 on Nov 12, 2018 22:11:47 GMT
I honestly CAN'T STOP GIGGLING at the description of Ankou as a Jones fangirl. I don't think I'll ever stop.
Also, maybe a little late on this one, but I finally watched the Thread retrospective in order to catch up completely, and I'm really disturbed by the way Tom keeps emphasizing, how this [specific thing] isn't enough to break Annie and Kat's friendship apart, as if it's all actually foreshadowing for something else, something bigger, which will break it apart. Especially in light of recent events in the comic.
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Post by pyradonis on Nov 12, 2018 23:30:41 GMT
I honestly CAN'T STOP GIGGLING at the description of Ankou as a Jones fangirl. I don't think I'll ever stop.
Also, maybe a little late on this one, but I finally watched the Thread retrospective in order to catch up completely, and I'm really disturbed by the way Tom keeps emphasizing, how this [specific thing] isn't enough to break Annie and Kat's friendship apart, as if it's all actually foreshadowing for something else, something bigger, which will break it apart. Especially in light of recent events in the comic.
Or maybe he refers to the fact that for years people have been speculated that this or that event will be a thing that drives Annie and Kat apart and then they will fight on opposite sides of the war!!! Which has not happened yet and probably never will. Also, in my opinion, the two most recent pages show Kat and Annie(s) together and even if Kat will have to find out which one is real (if not both) I do not see any indicator for a breakup.
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Post by madjack on May 4, 2019 14:09:10 GMT
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Post by Per on May 4, 2019 17:02:09 GMT
Apparently I have never heard anyone say "gills", as I didn't know it's pronounced with a hard G.
Also: YouTube's auto-generated subtitles hear "Parley's outfit" as "Polly Sanford".
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Post by MarineMonarch on May 4, 2019 21:18:28 GMT
Honestly I'm real glad he's got Magnolia on. I think it'll be more interesting and informative now that she's able to actually ask questions about chapters, both as a comic author and as a fan. Plus I hope it makes doing the retrospectives a little more enjoyable for Tom.
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Post by bedinsis on May 4, 2019 21:30:54 GMT
So it was called a Candy monster? Personally I've mentally referred to it as a druplesnubb because of the forum member that posts under that username and has it as an avatar.
Also, I remember finding the place of meeting between the mediums to be disturbing because the trees were growing in perfect rows and columns; if it was based on a man made park hen that appearance makes perfect sense.
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