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Post by pyradonis on Sept 11, 2019 11:24:28 GMT
Before this video came out, I had convinced myself, on the basis of this page and its comment ("Pretty much always, yeah"), that Tony had secretly been attracted to Surma for a long time. He just hadn't said anything because 1) she was taken and 2) social anxiety. This explained why he was so quick to accept her advances, hesitating only to say, "But I thought you were with James." So I was disappointed by the explanation in the video: he's not trying to flirt, he doesn't even realize how it comes across when he calls Surma's makeup "sexy," he's just saying things matter-of-factly like he would to anyone else. It makes him come off as very laissez-faire: "Huh--this person, whom I find generally attractive but am not specifically interested in, is kissing me. Okay." I think that Tom was so focused on showing Surma's choice and Surma's agency that he minimized Tony's agency. Even a comment like, "Wow, you really want to be with me?" would have shown us that Tony wanted this relationship instead of just falling into it. Gorgeous scenery, though (not to mention bugs). I don't think these two things you mentioned are mutually exclusive. I doubt that Tony would know how to flirt if he tried, but that doesn't mean that his honest comment about finding Surma's makeup attractive means that he wasn't specifically interested in her. I think the fact that he noticed she wasn't wearing makeup and made a point of commenting on it shows that he was interested in her, but to your list I would add 3) has no understanding of romantic feelings or how one should use them. |
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Post by Runningflame on Sept 11, 2019 19:22:54 GMT
Before this video came out, I had convinced myself, on the basis of this page and its comment ("Pretty much always, yeah"), that Tony had secretly been attracted to Surma for a long time. He just hadn't said anything because 1) she was taken and 2) social anxiety. This explained why he was so quick to accept her advances, hesitating only to say, "But I thought you were with James." So I was disappointed by the explanation in the video: he's not trying to flirt, he doesn't even realize how it comes across when he calls Surma's makeup "sexy," he's just saying things matter-of-factly like he would to anyone else. It makes him come off as very laissez-faire: "Huh--this person, whom I find generally attractive but am not specifically interested in, is kissing me. Okay." I think that Tom was so focused on showing Surma's choice and Surma's agency that he minimized Tony's agency. Even a comment like, "Wow, you really want to be with me?" would have shown us that Tony wanted this relationship instead of just falling into it. Gorgeous scenery, though (not to mention bugs). I don't think these two things you mentioned are mutually exclusive. I doubt that Tony would know how to flirt if he tried, but that doesn't mean that his honest comment about finding Surma's makeup attractive means that he wasn't specifically interested in her. I think the fact that he noticed she wasn't wearing makeup and made a point of commenting on it shows that he was interested in her, but to your list I would add 3) has no understanding of romantic feelings or how one should use them. Hmm, that's a good point. I guess then the only thing that I don't get is, why the different reactions to Surma and to Brinnie? Is it just because he and Brinnie were never alone together in Brazil? If he is interested in Surma but doesn't understand romantic feelings, I'd expect him to be (internally) freaking out like before, not relaxed and comfortable. I am very much in Tony's camp, here. Nothing is more frustrating than someone telling you, "You just know!"--when the whole point of the conversation is that no, I don't know, that's why I'm asking you for advice! It also occurs to me that Tony and Donny's positions are somewhat parallel to Annie and Jack's positions (respectively) in another conversation about matters of the heart. Another example of Annie being like her dad, as mentioned in the retrospective video (to bring this full circle). |
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Post by pyradonis on Sept 12, 2019 10:43:32 GMT
I don't think these two things you mentioned are mutually exclusive. I doubt that Tony would know how to flirt if he tried, but that doesn't mean that his honest comment about finding Surma's makeup attractive means that he wasn't specifically interested in her. I think the fact that he noticed she wasn't wearing makeup and made a point of commenting on it shows that he was interested in her, but to your list I would add 3) has no understanding of romantic feelings or how one should use them. Hmm, that's a good point. I guess then the only thing that I don't get is, why the different reactions to Surma and to Brinnie? Is it just because he and Brinnie were never alone together in Brazil? If he is interested in Surma but doesn't understand romantic feelings, I'd expect him to be (internally) freaking out like before, not relaxed and comfortable. I see two important differences here. One, Tony was older when he went to Brazil with Surma, and two, he got to know Surma in an environment where he could be relaxed and comfortable (doing work he liked, just one other person around). My GF has part of the same problems Tony has; so getting to know new people is incredibly stressful for her, except either A) it is just one person or B) it happens in a comfortable environment. Lastly, maybe the trip to Brazil was the moment where Tony finally "just knew" that he liked someone. That does not enable him to be able to flirt though. I mean, I am 31 now, and I still have not understood how or why humans flirt. And normally I cannot recognize when someone tries to flirt with me. |
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Post by madjack on Sept 13, 2019 13:14:00 GMT
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Post by spritznar on Sept 13, 2019 15:15:21 GMT
Hmm, that's a good point. I guess then the only thing that I don't get is, why the different reactions to Surma and to Brinnie? Is it just because he and Brinnie were never alone together in Brazil? If he is interested in Surma but doesn't understand romantic feelings, I'd expect him to be (internally) freaking out like before, not relaxed and comfortable. I see two important differences here. One, Tony was older when he went to Brazil with Surma, and two, he got to know Surma in an environment where he could be relaxed and comfortable (doing work he liked, just one other person around). My GF has part of the same problems Tony has; so getting to know new people is incredibly stressful for her, except either A) it is just one person or B) it happens in a comfortable environment. Lastly, maybe the trip to Brazil was the moment where Tony finally "just knew" that he liked someone. That does not enable him to be able to flirt though. I mean, I am 31 now, and I still have not understood how or why humans flirt. And normally I cannot recognize when someone tries to flirt with me. another difference is that brinnie was waiting for tony to make the first move, which he couldn't because he was overthinking. surma just went ahead and made the first move and all he had to do was react |
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Post by DonDueed on Sept 13, 2019 15:21:34 GMT
And an awesome chapter it is... |
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Post by bedinsis on Sept 21, 2019 16:28:37 GMT
Chapter 67: Evac is up. Since they talked a bit about outfits, I feel like linking to Eversist 's Google document of all the outfits Annie has worn during the comic: I am so glad someone else wasted their time doing this so I wouldn't have to. The fruits of your labor are astounding, and you're amazing for it. Also, Tom is amazing for designing all those outfits, even though he could have been lazy and drawn her in her uniforms all the time. (I'm pulling this convo from the previous thread in case anyone was interested.) Hah, thanks. Yeah, I'm definitely using time I don't have right now. Procrastination! Also gave me a chance to kinda speed-read the comic. As far as I can tell Tom enjoys that aspect of the comic creation. Sometimes he posts new outfits on his Twitter before the chapter starts! BTW, final count is 54 outfits as of where we are now, not counting treatises or side comics (probably 60ish with those).  The silly Google Doc is updated. I used my discretion as to what amounted to "an outfit" (sometimes there were enough similarities to assume it was the same piece of clothing). P.S. THE BOOTS made a surprising amount of appearances. ( blazingstar is speaking the truth by the way) Interesting about how Mr. Siddell makes sure to keep an odd number of pages in a chapter; I've never noticed before.
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Post by mturtle7 on Sept 23, 2019 19:46:36 GMT
I was completely shocked when Tom said that page with Jones wasn't in his original draft, but now that I know, I can't stop seeing how out of place it is! It felt so natural when the chapter first came up (and my subsequent rereads), but now it just seems like a weird and startling interruption of Annie's POV. |
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Post by Gotolei on Sept 28, 2019 21:09:06 GMT
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Post by bedinsis on Mar 23, 2020 16:48:17 GMT
Annie In The Forest Part 1 is up. On a personal note, I only realized by listening to this retrospect how terribly wrong Annie's decision to go to the forest could've gone. I mean, seriously, she abandoned everybody she knew to live for a summer among people she didn't. What if they had been outright abusive? What if they had refused to even talk to her, leaving her completely alone with her own thoughts for the entire summer?
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Post by Jelly Jellybean on Mar 23, 2020 23:30:49 GMT
Annie In The Forest Part 1 is up. On a personal note, I only realized by listening to this retrospect how terribly wrong Annie's decision to go to the forest could've gone. I mean, seriously, she abandoned everybody she knew to live for a summer among people she didn't. What if they had been outright abusive? What if they had refused to even talk to her, leaving her completely alone with her own thoughts for the entire summer? You mean like her father did? |
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Post by migrantworker on Mar 24, 2020 12:48:23 GMT
Now I really want to see Annie in the Forest made into a film. Given how it can stand on its own, it would make good promotional material. Jones, Coyote and Ysengrin can be abstracted away as Teacher, Local Ruler and Local Ruler's Muscle Man respectively, which allows them to be quite accurately introduced without the need for their whole backstory to be shown. Annie is of course being thrust into an unfamiliar environment, which again means her backstory does not need to be shown in full. Just drop some hints here and there, and (hopefully) the viewers - and more importantly, producers - would want to come back for more.
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Post by madjack on Mar 29, 2020 3:57:42 GMT
Part 2 is up. Traveller is apparently next but given the time between the last two we should have at least a whole week to prepare for that.
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Post by Per on Mar 29, 2020 15:03:39 GMT
There was no mention of the corporeal punishment Sareed seemed to have received, just like in the comic itself?
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Post by Runningflame on Mar 29, 2020 16:49:07 GMT
Nor any mention of the "Boys I Know" list. I've gotta say, though, panel 6 here is one of my favorite things Tom has ever drawn. It perfectly captures how water feels when you didn't realize you were thirsty--which is not something I would ever have expected one could draw. Amazing. |
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Post by mturtle7 on Mar 30, 2020 5:28:23 GMT
Aw man that was awesome. Really reminded me why I love the side stories so much.
Also, can I just say that I love how, in both videos, Magnolia keeps poking at Tom like, "so, that SHIP is pretty neat, isn't it? Y'know, that totally ADORABLE teen romance and drama? Hmmmm?" and then Tom keeps being sort of awkwardly vague and non-committal about it. My impression is that Tom is aware of how his fans (specifically, that breed of fan known as the "shipper") can get very touchy about the teen romance plotlines in his comics, and he has to be very careful what he says or risk a huge controversy...but Magnolia is also one of those fans, and has been for a long time, so she can't help bringing it up and fangirling over it a little.
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Post by bgb16999 on Mar 31, 2020 0:03:14 GMT
I thought some fans' reactions to AitF was utterly nonsensical. The text of part 2 states explicitly what was strongly implied in part 1: Annie (incorrectly) thought that Kamlen had a crush on her. Somehow, though, some readers managed to convince themselves that AitF "definitively confirms" that Annie has or had a crush on Kamlen. The comic actually states no such thing, and doesn't even do much to hint at it except to show Annie blushing (which, as the author points out, can mean other things). It is entirely possible to think (correctly or not) that someone is attracted to you even if you aren't attracted to them. The text doesn't say Annie isn't attracted to Kamlen, but it doesn't say she is, either.
I get that some people are shippers and want to see Annie in a relationship with someone, but what someone wants to happen in the comic, what someone predicts will happen in the comic, and what already has happened in the comic are three different things.
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Post by pyradonis on Apr 1, 2020 11:10:51 GMT
I thought some fans' reactions to AitF was utterly nonsensical. The text of part 2 states explicitly what was strongly implied in part 1: Annie (incorrectly) thought that Kamlen had a crush on her. Somehow, though, some readers managed to convince themselves that AitF "definitively confirms" that Annie has or had a crush on Kamlen. The comic actually states no such thing, and doesn't even do much to hint at it except to show Annie blushing (which, as the author points out, can mean other things). It is entirely possible to think (correctly or not) that someone is attracted to you even if you aren't attracted to them. The text doesn't say Annie isn't attracted to Kamlen, but it doesn't say she is, either. I get that some people are shippers and want to see Annie in a relationship with someone, but what someone wants to happen in the comic, what someone predicts will happen in the comic, and what already has happened in the comic are three different things. The comic does not simply show her blushing. What is this page supposed to mean, according to you? She is asked if there is anything in the forest she likes -> she thinks of Kamlen, depicted in a very romanticized scene together with her (and blushes). I am not a shipper. I mostly get annoyed by shipping. But come on, how much more obvious can it get? |
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Post by Jelly Jellybean on Apr 6, 2020 11:21:52 GMT
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Post by arf on Apr 7, 2020 2:13:51 GMT
...and we are left wondering what happened to that brave but crippled pup. (I choose to imagine he got taken in by some local merfolk)
'Coyote' is next. Which will be interesting since it isn't available on site yet.
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Post by Runningflame on Apr 7, 2020 3:37:35 GMT
Hahaha--I come here, ready to say how the big scenery page is also one of my favorite things Tom has ever drawn, and then he singles it out as a page he could have done better.  They do say that most great artists are self-critical because that's what drives them to keep improving. I also love all the ocean drawings. Traveller as a whole is gorgeous. It just occurred to me tonight that the plot here has some things in common with A Week for Kat: meeting someone, falling in love (in a sense), spending a bunch of time together over a few days, and then suddenly they're gone and you never see them again. Bittersweet, and apparently a theme that resonates with Tom. Hopefully, after all the indignation about Paz's actions in Moving, this look back at Traveller will remind us again why we like her. I was a little disappointed that there was no mention of Viaxeiro--I guess it doesn't need a whole lot of explanation beyond "Same thing in Galego," but a few words about it would've been nice. |
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Post by Eversist on Apr 8, 2020 0:05:54 GMT
I love the idea of leaving interpretation of the ending open/up to the reader, but like some of the YouTube comments I can only assume the puppy met an ultimately sad ending after the triumph. So it's bittersweet. I appreciated what Tom said about the puppy not getting to live a normal life during that particular scene. And as a result this side story has really stuck with me (I tend to like media that shows bittersweet reality), as I think it has with other readers. Anyone want to tweet Tom about Coyote not being up on the site? You guys can borrow my copy. |
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Post by mturtle7 on Apr 8, 2020 18:22:11 GMT
You know, it never occurred to me to think about it that way before, but Tom is right: for the puppy & his family, this is a completely happy and triumphant ending. The thing is, I always read the whole story while seeing entirely through Paz's perspective, and like Tom said it's a really sad event for her when "Traveller" leaves. But if I put myself in Traveller's position...basically, his life before was always full of misery & boredom & loneliness because he couldn't move around quickly like the other dogs, and then Paz slowly starts to introduce him to the wonders of the outside world by carrying him around, and then suddenly he discovers an incredibly beautiful place where, for once in his life, he can really move under his own power. I don't think it even matters to him what happens next; this is the happiest moment of his entire life, maybe the happiest he could ever be, and even if he died shortly afterwards his happy little dog brain would probably honestly believe it was worth it. Not even bittersweet, just happy.
It's nice to have that perspective, is all.
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Post by wies on Apr 10, 2020 8:08:14 GMT
One of the most subtle themes of this comic is perspective.
The just put online coyote side-comic is a good example of that, also.
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Post by Runningflame on Apr 13, 2020 22:00:26 GMT
One of the most subtle themes of this comic is perspective. The just put online coyote side-comic is a good example of that, also. And it looks like Chapter 76 may be as well. |
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Post by wies on Apr 14, 2020 4:38:59 GMT
Could be, indeed!
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Post by madjack on Apr 19, 2020 0:40:38 GMT
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Post by Druplesnubb on Apr 20, 2020 10:39:25 GMT
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Post by Jelly Jellybean on Apr 20, 2020 14:13:37 GMT
I still wonder what Tom had in mind for Ysengrin's missing ear before he introduced the character. I am left assuming it was always meant to the result of Coyote excreting his dominance. Enjoy your internet cookie! |
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Post by saardvark on Apr 20, 2020 14:29:35 GMT
I am left assuming it was always meant to the result of Coyote excreting his dominance. Ewwww, I don't like the sound of that! (I think you have an auto-correct fail of exerting -> excreting there....  ) |
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They do say that most great artists are self-critical because that's what drives them to keep improving. I also love all the ocean drawings. Traveller as a whole is gorgeous.
)