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Post by bedinsis on Jul 27, 2019 18:31:04 GMT
Chapter 60: The other shoreIt bothered me a bit that he called what Kat sees as the situation as it is without all the set dressing around. The ether exists in the Gunnerverse; one interpretation would be that Kat misses out on part of reality that might actually be important; calling the ether "set dressing" makes it sound like the ether is unimportant.
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Post by DonDueed on Jul 27, 2019 21:07:17 GMT
Chapter 60: The other shoreIt bothered me a bit that he called what Kat sees as the situation as it is without all the set dressing around. The ether exists in the Gunnerverse; one interpretation would be that Kat misses out on part of reality that might actually be important; calling the ether "set dressing" makes it sound like the ether is unimportant. I don't think he meant that the ether itself is set dressing, only that it has an aspect that differs from one person's perception to another's. Kat only gets the basic reality of the ether without that person-specific aspect. That fits with Kat's rationalist world view.
Interesting that Annie has the lock picks with her, since those are normally held by Renard. That indicates that Annie took them back from him before leaving the Court, so she made a deliberate decision to leave him behind (see discussion above of the previous chapter retrospective).
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Post by DonDueed on Jul 27, 2019 21:37:36 GMT
Also concerning the arrowhead... I just noticed that its recurved shape is an exact match for part of the Antimony symbol (as seen in Annie's necklace and the end-of-chapter markers). Coincidence?
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Post by Zox Tomana on Jul 28, 2019 21:34:35 GMT
Chapter 60: The other shoreIt bothered me a bit that he called what Kat sees as the situation as it is without all the set dressing around. The ether exists in the Gunnerverse; one interpretation would be that Kat misses out on part of reality that might actually be important; calling the ether "set dressing" makes it sound like the ether is unimportant. The situation the Green Guy is in is that he is isolated and is locked there. What does Annie see? She sees Green Guy in his etheric form trapped in an endless maze. What does Kat see? She sees the Green Guy in an isolated room with his hands restrained by a lock. She and Annie are seeing the same etheric situation, but Kat sees it "as it is" while Annie sees "the set-dressing." As explained by our vampire friend back when we visited the RotD, the set-dressing IS important. For them, it brings the ether and the memory of the dead "to life" for the living. Kat just happens to see the literal smoke and mirrors, rather than the illusion intended. For this, the maze is trapping Green Guy's spirit, but ultimately "what it is" is a lock, so that's what Kat sees. |
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Post by imaginaryfriend on Jul 29, 2019 4:44:58 GMT
Also concerning the arrowhead... I just noticed that its recurved shape is an exact match for part of the Antimony symbol (as seen in Annie's necklace and the end-of-chapter markers). Coincidence? It is a curious shape, isn't it? There were arrowheads shaped like that but they're wrong for this sort of application. After mulling it over for a long time I eventually decided that the arrowhead's significance was most likely that it's a twin point. Two birds, one stone. [edit] Update: I watched the ch60 retrospective and yes the "ropecutter" arrowhead was used as a reference but because it would leave a vicious wound and looked like something that could pin someone to the bottom of the river. [/edit] |
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Post by bedinsis on Aug 5, 2019 17:03:30 GMT
Chapter 61: Red's friend gets a name too I suppose is not up. If you clicked the link at least you got to listen to some catchy pop hit from the 80's.While this might be an odd post to make, for the past weeks new chapter retrospectives have come up every Saturday; does anyone know why the uploading schedule has changed?
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Post by Runningflame on Aug 5, 2019 17:55:56 GMT
Chapter 61: Red's friend gets a name too I suppose is not up. If you clicked the link at least you got to listen to some catchy pop hit from the 80's.While this might be an odd post to make, for the past weeks new chapter retrospectives have come up every Saturday; does anyone know why the uploading schedule has changed? I've been wondering for a while when the retrospectives were going to stop. It seemed odd to think that they might completely catch up, which would mean that a "retrospective" video would be posted for each chapter as soon as it was done. (For one thing, there would be a lot they couldn't talk about because it'd spoil the next few chapters.) So I'm guessing that Tom decided to keep the retrospectives 10 chapters behind the current chapter. But we'll see. |
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Post by gpvos on Aug 5, 2019 21:22:11 GMT
I've been wondering for a while when the retrospectives were going to stop. It seemed odd to think that they might completely catch up, which would mean that a "retrospective" video would be posted for each chapter as soon as it was done. (For one thing, there would be a lot they couldn't talk about because it'd spoil the next few chapters.) So I'm guessing that Tom decided to keep the retrospectives 10 chapters behind the current chapter. But we'll see. |
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Post by madjack on Aug 6, 2019 2:19:32 GMT
Rather than just 'a number' perhaps Tom feels this is a good place to leave them? Despite being the first chapter in a new book, it's the conclusion of a big arc and the next few chapters segue into things that set up the currently running story. We may not see a new block of them like we've just been spoilt by for a while so things can unfold more.
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Post by bedinsis on Aug 10, 2019 16:57:09 GMT
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Post by todd on Aug 11, 2019 0:02:56 GMT
It might be a good idea - pruning down the cast a bit to make it more manageable. (Though Tom's wound up introducing a new Rogat Orjak, as well.) |
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Post by Runningflame on Aug 11, 2019 3:31:21 GMT
Too bad--I always enjoyed catching up with those jerks. (Hopefully we might still see other Foley students... BunnyBoy and his class are possibilities, right?) Also, I always put the accent of Ayilu on the first syllable, while Tom apparently puts it on the middle syllable. (Same thing happened with Ysengrin, incidentally.) |
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Post by bedinsis on Aug 17, 2019 20:04:40 GMT
Chapter 62: And Then Coyote Said... is up. aka. a catch-up chapter, since it involves at least three plotlines. More or less a confirmation that Annie is right to not want to agree to the task of the psychopomps, since it's a first step to her joining their ranks. I don't know if they wanting her to do that has been explicitly stated in the comic.
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Post by Runningflame on Aug 17, 2019 22:08:19 GMT
Riiiiight... and there's no hidden significance in his little parting gifts to Parley and Smitty, either, I suppose.  |
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Post by bedinsis on Aug 24, 2019 19:38:59 GMT
Chapter 63: The Shadow Men has been uploaded. In this episode Mr. Siddell mentions that people reading the comic page by page as it comes out online has a different relationship to Tony than the people that buys the printed edition. A valid perspective. I never caught up on that robots giving students love letters is a common occurrence.
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Post by bedinsis on Sept 1, 2019 18:08:45 GMT
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Post by OGRuddawg on Sept 2, 2019 0:13:51 GMT
I wonder if Tom and Magnolia are going to stop posting retrospective videos for a while after Chapter 65: Katurday. Chapter 66 is pretty dang significant, so I wouldn't be surprised if that's where they decide to stop. If they go beyond that, it'll be in the next major section of the story. This is just my guess, though.
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Post by mturtle7 on Sept 2, 2019 22:12:36 GMT
I always found that part with the bug and clipboard in this chapter to be kind of odd, but charming, and used to kind of wonder what was the deal with it. Now I know! Cool life story, Tom.
I also can't believe I never put it together that Tony is starts trying to figure out the science of Surma's powers on this trip, and that's also what consumed him for the majority of of their time at the hospital and everything afterward and is also what led to a lot of his terrible parenting decisions!
Tom has a point about how compression effect would always distort the audience's perception of Surma, but I'd also like to point out that the part where she seduces Renard under orders from the Court reflects much more poorly on her than that one time where she cheated on James. And yet, I have to admit people on the forums tend to argue about the latter much more than the former. Hmmmm....
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Post by todd on Sept 2, 2019 23:54:22 GMT
Tom has a point about how compression effect would always distort the audience's perception of Surma, but I'd also like to point out that the part where she seduces Renard under orders from the Court reflects much more poorly on her than that one time where she cheated on James. And yet, I have to admit people on the forums tend to argue about the latter much more than the former. Hmmmm.... Maybe because of the "under orders from the Court" part, which didn't apply to the dropping Eglamore for Antony. She did the latter entirely of her own volition. |
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Post by imaginaryfriend on Sept 3, 2019 0:55:19 GMT
It's been a while since the forum talked about this topic... It's true that Surma "seduced" Renard in the sense that she manipulated him but I doubt she promised him anything, did anything sexual for him, or entered into any sort of relationship with him. Coyote said that it was his (Renard's) own fault that he was deceived so the worst she probably did was encourage his misunderstanding. Those aren't the actions that a friend would take but unless there's something we don't know about she didn't owe Renard friendship... or anything else. Surma was in a dating relationship with Eggers, and while those only last as long as neither involved party wishes to end it, entering into another entanglement before informing the previous beau that he's out is a bit rude. Telling him in public isn't exactly noble either, but it may have been useful since having mutual friends watching probably did limit how mad Eggers could get and what he might say or do. I think doing stuff this way is shortsighted since Eggers, as Protector, was going to be someone that Surma the medium would have to work with, possibly for years. Of course, some people might look at that same situation and observe that since it's his job he'd still have to protect Surma regardless of how she treated him, so why not treat him in whatever way's easiest and gets Surma what she wants without having to wait? It does appear that there weren't any consequences for Surma. (shrug) |
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Post by pyradonis on Sept 3, 2019 9:39:02 GMT
Tom has a point about how compression effect would always distort the audience's perception of Surma, but I'd also like to point out that the part where she seduces Renard under orders from the Court reflects much more poorly on her than that one time where she cheated on James. And yet, I have to admit people on the forums tend to argue about the latter much more than the former. Hmmmm.... Maybe because of the "under orders from the Court" part, which didn't apply to the dropping Eglamore for Antony. She did the latter entirely of her own volition. Surma never striked as a person who let herself order around by the Court. And it were only two or three pages but she did not seem uncomfortable while seducing Renard either. |
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Post by coastal on Sept 4, 2019 10:38:28 GMT
Maybe because of the "under orders from the Court" part, which didn't apply to the dropping Eglamore for Antony. She did the latter entirely of her own volition. Surma never striked as a person who let herself order around by the Court. And it were only two or three pages but she did not seem uncomfortable while seducing Renard either. I for one agree with this point of view. I am not comfortable with how Surma treated either Reynardine or James, but the way she handled the James and Tony situation seems more like thoughtlessness and poor planning on her part... while the way she treated Reynardine seems deliberately cruel. At the very least, she certainly did not think of Reynardine as a friend. |
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Post by todd on Sept 4, 2019 12:39:24 GMT
I for one agree with this point of view. I am not comfortable with how Surma treated either Reynardine or James, but the way she handled the James and Tony situation seems more like thoughtlessness and poor planning on her part... while the way she treated Reynardine seems deliberately cruel. At the very least, she certainly did not think of Reynardine as a friend. I considered Surma's part in Renard's deception worse myself; I was simply offering a speculation on why more people protested her dropping Eglamore for Antony than deceiving Renard. (Another possibility, which I only considered afterwards, was that a lot of people may feel more strongly about love triangles.) |
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Post by bedinsis on Sept 4, 2019 15:41:42 GMT
Sidenote: I'm glad the retrospectives are generating some discussion. It felt a bit pointless to update every time a new video came out if nobody had anything to say about it. I thought it odd that Mr. Siddell called Eglamore and Surma the jock and the cheerleader of their circle of friends(12:26). Jock, yeah that fits Eglamore, but comparing Surma to a cheerleader? Surma never striked as a person who let herself order around by the Court. And it were only two or three pages but she did not seem uncomfortable while seducing Renard either. I for one agree with this point of view. I am not comfortable with how Surma treated either Reynardine or James, but the way she handled the James and Tony situation seems more like thoughtlessness and poor planning on her part... while the way she treated Reynardine seems deliberately cruel. At the very least, she certainly did not think of Reynardine as a friend. I do not fully agree... at least I think I don't. I think Surma was more callous than deliberately cruel. I think Surma had some reason for making Renard think she was in love with him and she didn't care about what Renard felt about being lied to. More "I don't care if you suffer" than "I want you to suffer". |
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Post by dramastix on Sept 7, 2019 20:25:25 GMT
I don't get the impression that Surma had the relationship with the forest that Anna has. She probably didn't start going there until she was an adult, and on the orders of the court, rather than the invitation of Coyote. And since everyone else in the court referred to him as "The Demon Renard," I can't imagine she thought of him as a person worthy of the respect of truthfulness. So her actions are less akin to the betrayal of another human and more to the duplicity of an ambassador to a country with whom you're not on the best of terms.
The fact that her powers never seemed as developed as Annie's (sure she can float, but we never see any evidence that she really connected with her elemental self, firey personality aside) suggest her upbringing was more Court-centric.
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Post by DonDueed on Sept 7, 2019 20:37:57 GMT
...Which has me wondering a bit about the class schedule at the Court. We don't often see the kids in class. In this chapter we see a full day of non-school activity. Presumably it takes place on a Saturday (hence the chapter title) but it makes me wonder just how much time the kids actually spend in class and doing homework. Seems like a pretty light load. Of course, page after page of schoolwork wouldn't make for a very exciting comic...
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Post by DonDueed on Sept 8, 2019 13:52:07 GMT
Also, count me among those who really enjoyed the bonus page. It only took me a few seconds to get that it was all fake gear. After that it was all chuckles.  |
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Post by imaginaryfriend on Sept 8, 2019 19:17:59 GMT
Also, count me among those who really enjoyed the bonus page. It only took me a few seconds to get that it was all fake gear. After that it was all chuckles. Unless my ears deceive me he said that the pics were high-contrast shots of stuff from around his apartment... Including a very basic BOXBOT robot that he built. Trivia: Prominently featured in the source material is the infamous TRASH-80 series, which was mentioned in passing here on formspring once. ...Though to be fair back in the day it wasn't just radio- RC- and computer-enthusiast targeted ads in hobby magazines that were that opaque to people outside the hobby. There was metal detecting, photography, rock and gem collecting, and even coins and stamps shared that small high-contrast pic and brief-as-possible text blurb. I don't remember much about the profession-targeted mags (except maybe retail coin and stamp mags/newsletters which I checked out once or twice) but they were probably the same. Ads in mags cost money, therefore they only put in the bare minimum so that the people who might actually buy would know what they were buying. |
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Post by Runningflame on Sept 8, 2019 22:05:01 GMT
Before this video came out, I had convinced myself, on the basis of this page and its comment ("Pretty much always, yeah"), that Tony had secretly been attracted to Surma for a long time. He just hadn't said anything because 1) she was taken and 2) social anxiety. This explained why he was so quick to accept her advances, hesitating only to say, "But I thought you were with James." So I was disappointed by the explanation in the video: he's not trying to flirt, he doesn't even realize how it comes across when he calls Surma's makeup "sexy," he's just saying things matter-of-factly like he would to anyone else. It makes him come off as very laissez-faire: "Huh--this person, whom I find generally attractive but am not specifically interested in, is kissing me. Okay." I think that Tom was so focused on showing Surma's choice and Surma's agency that he minimized Tony's agency. Even a comment like, "Wow, you really want to be with me?" would have shown us that Tony wanted this relationship instead of just falling into it. Gorgeous scenery, though (not to mention bugs). |
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Post by coastal on Sept 11, 2019 8:02:56 GMT
Before this video came out, I had convinced myself, on the basis of this page and its comment ("Pretty much always, yeah"), that Tony had secretly been attracted to Surma for a long time. He just hadn't said anything because 1) she was taken and 2) social anxiety. This explained why he was so quick to accept her advances, hesitating only to say, "But I thought you were with James." So I was disappointed by the explanation in the video: he's not trying to flirt, he doesn't even realize how it comes across when he calls Surma's makeup "sexy," he's just saying things matter-of-factly like he would to anyone else. It makes him come off as very laissez-faire: "Huh--this person, whom I find generally attractive but am not specifically interested in, is kissing me. Okay." I think that Tom was so focused on showing Surma's choice and Surma's agency that he minimized Tony's agency. Even a comment like, "Wow, you really want to be with me?" would have shown us that Tony wanted this relationship instead of just falling into it. Gorgeous scenery, though (not to mention bugs). I don't think these two things you mentioned are mutually exclusive. I doubt that Tony would know how to flirt if he tried, but that doesn't mean that his honest comment about finding Surma's makeup attractive means that he wasn't specifically interested in her. I think the fact that he noticed she wasn't wearing makeup and made a point of commenting on it shows that he was interested in her, but to your list I would add 3) has no understanding of romantic feelings or how one should use them. |
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