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Post by eyemyself on Jul 25, 2014 17:32:48 GMT
I think the thing that really throws it for me is the body language and the clothing. I could buy Zimmy changing her mind on Jack, I could even buy her cleaning up a bit as she gets more emotionally stable and gets better control of her powers. (Which I think is slowly happening but is a long way off for the time being.) What I can't see is her turning into this girl we see hear, draping herself over some dude like she needs his support and gussying herself up like she's going out clubbing. In the past we have seen Zimmy placing herself in front of Gamma like she is her protector. We've seen her fierce, and when we have seen her vulnerable she doesn't seem comfortable with it. I just don't picture as someone who intentionally models vulnerability to seem more feminine. It's just so very, very drastic.
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CGAdam
Junior Member
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Post by CGAdam on Jul 25, 2014 17:38:59 GMT
Here's a hypothetical. Assume for a second that it IS Zimmy. She looks happier, healthier, and friendlier than we've ever seen. Would any of us here really begrudge her the chance to be normal, or at least closer to it? Would YOU really be happier if she continued to be strung out and dependent on one person for the rest of her life? I call foul. Of course we'd all like it if all turned out fairy-tale-esque and Zimmy was abruptly cured. We just don't think it's likely. Sad things happen in this comic. I am Jack's devilish grin. /fightclub I admit, I loaded that question pretty heavily, but I was genuinely curious. Sometimes people only like characters because of their misery, and I wondered if anyone around here had that particular bent for Zimmy. As for happy endings, we haven't seen the resolution for that plot thread yet. It could go any way, and I'm holding out hope for better rather than worse. |
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Post by zimmyzims on Jul 25, 2014 17:39:01 GMT
And Annie has changed relatively to her fire-elementarity too, essentially growing to control that side better. But it's not gone, obviously. Zimmy appears (at first glance) to have lost the entire thing, which certainly seemed pretty uncontrollable. But who knows. Nothing yet allows to conclude that she, if she's Zimmy, has lost the whole thing or even parts of it. Since when was Zimmy sexually attracted to girls? Gamma/Zimmy, though admittedly that's different. When is there a moment that suggests of sexual attraction or a form of erotic relationship between them? To my eye, Zimmy has seemed redneck straight, just not very interested in the whole sex thing, which should not be a surprise seen that she was just coming to age when most grow interest to sexuality last time when we saw her. |
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Post by zimmyzims on Jul 25, 2014 17:44:44 GMT
I think the thing that really throws it for me is the body language and the clothing. I could buy Zimmy changing her mind on Jack, I could even buy her cleaning up a bit as she gets more emotionally stable and gets better control of her powers. (Which I think is slowly happening but is a long way off for the time being.) What I can't see is her turning into this girl we see hear, draping herself over some dude like she needs his support and gussying herself up like she's going out clubbing. In the past we have seen Zimmy placing herself in front of Gamma like she is her protector. We've seen her fierce, and when we have seen her vulnerable she doesn't seem comfortable with it. I just don't picture as someone who intentionally models vulnerability to seem more feminine. It's just so very, very drastic. This is very true. The thing that has most disturbed me about this since the "Here's Zimmy!" idea was spelled out. Who was the first to say "is that Zimmy?" or something like that? |
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Post by Daedalus on Jul 25, 2014 17:45:49 GMT
But it's not gone, obviously. Zimmy appears (at first glance) to have lost the entire thing, which certainly seemed pretty uncontrollable. But who knows. Nothing yet allows to conclude that she, if she's Zimmy, has lost the whole thing or even parts of it. To clarify, I meant Annie hasn't lost her fire elemental side, and I don't think Zimmy would lose something so fundamental to her character either. Sorry for my bad phrasing. |
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Post by Daedalus on Jul 25, 2014 17:48:40 GMT
Aren't her irises supposed to be red though? Hmmm - that's a quite valid point. Maybe this isn't Zimmy, but Jack's just into goths? If so, burn in hell jack, you dirty two-timer
EDIT: 'burn in hell' because of the two-timer thing, not because he likes goths. SORRY A friend just brought this to my attention - I have nothing against people who like goths. |
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Post by Chancellor on Jul 25, 2014 17:48:57 GMT
BLOOD AND THUNDER. TEN PAGES?
Truly, MAL must be a daemon, sent to cause discord and wildspec amongst us.
Personally, Zimmy and Gamma seem to have been living pretty much exclusively in each other's head for years now. At this point a more physical aspect would hardly be a leap to imagine though I don't profess to know.
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Post by Deepbluediver on Jul 25, 2014 17:49:24 GMT
The thing is, Tom has never made an artistic choice like that. In fact, it's my firm belief that Tom was quite capable of drawing the comic as it is now when he started, and that he just chose the simpler, less proportional style to better show Annie's outlook on the world. For instance, if they came back here in a current comic, I'm sure their heads would come to about halfway up the directory. It only appears taller in the comic because of their perspective and the fact that as children, they don't have a very good sense of scale. Also see the first time Annie looks as the bridges. I assumed it was a combination of his developing his skills and intentionally choosing to alter the art design to better express the characters. No offense meant to Tom, but some of the expressions and dialogue in those first couple of chapters is really flat. It helps highlight the discordance, yes, but honestly I was hoping he might someday go back and redo them. There was a picture I saw once purporting to be two girls, both 12, except one is about 1 foot taller, weighs 20-30 pounds more and looks to be about 14, whereas he friend looks to be about 10. People can develop physically and mentally at vastly different rates. I have one friend who's been shaving every day since Junior year in highschool and another who can get away with shaving once a week and still look baby-bottom smooth all the time. Also, even from his first appearance, Jack seems like he's had a little more freedom than the other characters; maybe he was always a grade older and it just never came up? (this is pure speculation; I admit that) Finally, it is stated that they are entering year 10. Wasn't that the grade Parley and Smitty where in when we first met them? No, I mean, watch the Gunnerkrigg-ified version. Not the original anime. Done. It seems every bit as ridiculous as I remembered it being. |
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Post by Daedalus on Jul 25, 2014 17:50:21 GMT
BLOOD AND THUNDER. TEN PAGES? Truly, MAL must be a daemon, sent to cause discord and wildspec amongst us. Personally, Zimmy and Gamma seem to have been living pretty much exclusively in each other's head for years now. At this point a more physical aspect would hardly be a leap to imagine though I don't profess to know. So Option E? |
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Post by Chancellor on Jul 25, 2014 17:52:55 GMT
As I live and die, we have the stench of heresy amongst us.
Poll it?
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Post by Daedalus on Jul 25, 2014 17:53:48 GMT
The thing is, Tom has never made an artistic choice like that. In fact, it's my firm belief that Tom was quite capable of drawing the comic as it is now when he started, and that he just chose the simpler, less proportional style to better show Annie's outlook on the world. For instance, if they came back here in a current comic, I'm sure their heads would come to about halfway up the directory. It only appears taller in the comic because of their perspective and the fact that as children, they don't have a very good sense of scale. Also see the first time Annie looks as the bridges. I assumed it was a combination of his developing his skills and intentionally choosing to alter the art design to better express the characters. No offense meant to Tom, but some of the expressions and dialogue in those first couple of chapters is really flat. It helps highlight the discordance, yes, but honestly I was hoping he might someday go back and redo them. I'm with you here, personally. But there's never every been an artistic change as drastic as, you know, changing the color of someone's eyes (especially when they're a defining physical feature of the character (double especially when it's Tom's 'original' character, and thus not likely for him to suddenly change directions with)). As I live and die, we have the stench of heresy amongst us. Poll it? Can't put more than one poll per thread. You could make another thread yourself if you want  |
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Post by fwip on Jul 25, 2014 17:57:54 GMT
I think the thing that really throws it for me is the body language and the clothing. I could buy Zimmy changing her mind on Jack, I could even buy her cleaning up a bit as she gets more emotionally stable and gets better control of her powers. (Which I think is slowly happening but is a long way off for the time being.) What I can't see is her turning into this girl we see hear, draping herself over some dude like she needs his support and gussying herself up like she's going out clubbing. In the past we have seen Zimmy placing herself in front of Gamma like she is her protector. We've seen her fierce, and when we have seen her vulnerable she doesn't seem comfortable with it. I just don't picture as someone who intentionally models vulnerability to seem more feminine. It's just so very, very drastic. This is very true. The thing that has most disturbed me about this since the "Here's Zimmy!" idea was spelled out. Who was the first to say "is that Zimmy?" or something like that? Second and third posts in the thread were both "is that Zimmy and Jack?" |
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Post by Chancellor on Jul 25, 2014 17:59:09 GMT
Wow, Monday is something I look to with something beyond apt dread for the first time in a while.
I wonder if Tom has had any reaction to our inane babbles?
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Post by exuberancium on Jul 25, 2014 18:00:07 GMT
I don't really see any evidence that that girl is Zimmy other than Jack once said he was in love with Zimmy.
Her nose is smaller, her eyes are a difference colour, her body language suggests she is a completely different person, Gamma isn't shown nearby, and it's heavily implied that Zimmy and Gamma are a couple so it's unlikely she would go out with Jack.
Also, if it was Zimmy, Annie's reaction would probably be shock and curiosity rather than avoidance.
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Post by Deepbluediver on Jul 25, 2014 18:02:18 GMT
I'm with you here, personally. But there's never every been an artistic change as drastic as, you know, changing the color of someone's eyes (especially when they're a defining physical feature of the character (double especially when it's Tom's 'original' character, and thus not likely for him to suddenly change directions with)). Red isn't exactly the normal color for someone's eyes anyhow; I assumed it was a function of her condition, and if she got better it would naturally revert to whatever their color was SUPPOSED to be. Going back through the archives, it looks like virtually EVERYONE except for Antimony is depicted with completely black eyes- no distinction between the iris and pupil- unless there is something special about them. That being said, I want to reiterate that I admit that I think it is possible, even likely, for this to be someone who merely LOOKS like Zimmy. Edit: It turns out I make a lot of assumptions. They are usually wrong. |
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Post by eightyfour on Jul 25, 2014 18:09:46 GMT
I wonder if Tom has had any reaction to our inane babbles? I imagine him looking at this thread, quietly smiling to himself and shaking his head in disbelief.  If I was a gambling man I'd wager that he didn't remotely expect to get a reaction this intense from today's page. |
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Post by aaroncampbell on Jul 25, 2014 18:11:57 GMT
WOW, what a crazy-busy thread! Here are my favorites: I have a thought. What if it's both Gamma and Zimmy. We're not sure how their connection works. If Gamma's the only thing that keeps Zimmy together, what would happen if they somehow merged. "Torn" could be about that union being pushed apart by their internal differences (Jack?), among other things. Fantastic idea! As soon as I read it, this image came to mind:  . Looking at it now, though, it seems a little creepy. But if Gamma and Zimmy somehow merged and it was what they wanted, then hey -- the character in today's page does look happy! And I can see something of a cross in the features of both Zimmy and Gamma in her, though the blackness of the eyes is neither of them. (Perhaps that's an indicator of all the weird Zimmy-ness she still has to deal with? Maybe it's all there, just bottled up now and kept in check, and the calmness is just a mask like Annie's? Actually my first thought wasn't of Zimmy, but of Hetty gaining human form. I think it was the way the eyebrow piercing and nose appear to form a shape, although on second looks it is not that similar in shape to Hetty's symbol. This is a creepy idea. I think Hetty is pretty well gone but I suppose the dissolving effect could have been some sort of etheric .... defense mechanism or something. There didn't seem to be any guides show up to take her away, but that could have been after Rey turned away. Still, if she did somehow manage to survive and come back as a human? Ugh! I could see a bit of her in this MAL. There's a hint of mischief in her smile, and again with those eyes..... But Jack is not exactly some helpless dupe either. It wouldn't surprise me (if this theory turned out to be true) if he knew what she was and chose to date her anyway! After all, he liked Zimmy; the dude's got a taste for instability! Oh, and I guess I should chime in on Jack since everyone else has. Okay, so the guy has matured. I know kids his age who have that much facial hair, and I know guys in the 30s who can't grow anything. On the other hand, the issue is that it seems to have happened in a short period of time. Well, I think it's just puberty hitting hard, but if you're desperate for another explanation, perhaps the spiders are influencing more than his mental and etheric abilities? I hate to go with "spider gives extra powers" line because that's been done, but they do have shorter lifespans than ours so maybe he's maturing a bit more quickly. As for his muscles, those are easy to come by. We know he sneaks around and rows out to the power plant and whatnot, so he's pretty active. I don't see anything too out of the ordinary. |
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Post by wynne on Jul 25, 2014 18:16:42 GMT
I call foul. Of course we'd all like it if all turned out fairy-tale-esque and Zimmy was abruptly cured. We just don't think it's likely. Sad things happen in this comic. I am Jack's devilish grin. /fightclub I admit, I loaded that question pretty heavily, but I was genuinely curious. Sometimes people only like characters because of their misery, and I wondered if anyone around here had that particular bent for Zimmy. As for happy endings, we haven't seen the resolution for that plot thread yet. It could go any way, and I'm holding out hope for better rather than worse. For me, it's not that I don't want to see Zimmy happy, it's that stability and happiness generally don't come that easily (both in Gunnerkrigg and in the real world). True character development doesn't just happen, it takes time and you have to actually work for it. Having that be Zimmy, and having her actually be as "normal" as MAL appears in that panel, it's just too simple. It took Zimmy two or three years to get from "Two Strange Girls" to "Divine," and that doesn't even begin to cover the mess she was before Gamma and the Court. And now she's supposed to be wearing fashionable clothes, have a fairly clean appearance, be calm enough that her eyes stopped being red, and be able to function away from Gamma? All offscreen and in less than a year? It's too much for too little effort, and I've seen too many episodes of the Twilight Zone. If that really is Zimmy something is horribly, horribly wrong. Like actual "replacing people with Stepfordian robots" or "total demon possession" wrong. |
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Post by Brother_Spartacus on Jul 25, 2014 18:22:27 GMT
wynneI think the extreme leap forward is just temporary because of the ether in the sea.
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Post by smurfton on Jul 25, 2014 18:26:12 GMT
Tom stirred us up good with this'un. Fire Spike was before my time, but did that not even draw such commentary? Before my time on the forum as well. Probably correct. Still, 4 pages in 1.3 hours is impressive. It's before my time as well, but I read some of the old threads for fun a while ago. The longest thread was actually the one where Surma was revealed to have tricked Renard (at twelve pages). They were mainly discussing their loss of respect for Surma and her not being practically perfect in every possible way.
Page 802 (new number scheme) had 9 pages, and then the page where Annie it's revealed not to be human is 7 pages long. The chapter is on pages 24 and 23 of the forum btw.
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Post by mordekai on Jul 25, 2014 18:30:01 GMT
If Tom makes Anthony Carver the ship's captain, it would either confirm "it's a dream", or make it the greatest chapter ever. Por que no los dos? Paz!, sal del forum ahora mismo y vuelve al comic! BLOOD AND THUNDER. TEN PAGES? Truly, MAL must be a daemon, sent to cause discord and wildspec amongst us. Personally, Zimmy and Gamma seem to have been living pretty much exclusively in each other's head for years now. At this point a more physical aspect would hardly be a leap to imagine though I don't profess to know. That's kind of what I was saying. Zimmy and Gamma were a single person splint into two (she has manifested whole cities, so why not an extra body?). And remember how Zimmy and Antimony exchanged places and personality in Zimmy's mirage world. Gamma could be a person Zimmy created for emotional support, or hell, it could be even the opposite, Zimmy could be all of Gamma's anguish and pain expurged out of her body and given shape, and now they are back to a single body. Of course, Jones told Annie that Zimmy was human, without mentioning Gamma, so my bet would be that Zimmy is the original one and Gamma the etherical creation. |
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Post by Elysium on Jul 25, 2014 18:36:40 GMT
I admit, I loaded that question pretty heavily, but I was genuinely curious. Sometimes people only like characters because of their misery, and I wondered if anyone around here had that particular bent for Zimmy. I'm all for character developpement, but not complete off-sceen resolution of a major character subplot and a complete 180° for no given reason. |
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Post by Deepbluediver on Jul 25, 2014 18:37:02 GMT
For me, it's not that I don't want to see Zimmy happy, it's that stability and happiness generally don't come that easily (both in Gunnerkrigg and in the real world). True character development doesn't just happen, it takes time and you have to actually work for it. Having that be Zimmy, and having her actually be as "normal" as MAL appears in that panel, it's just too simple. It took Zimmy two or three years to get from "Two Strange Girls" to "Divine," and that doesn't even begin to cover the mess she was before Gamma and the Court. And now she's supposed to be wearing fashionable clothes, have a fairly clean appearance, be calm enough that her eyes stopped being red, and be able to function away from Gamma? All offscreen and in less than a year? It's too much for too little effort, and I've seen too many episodes of the Twilight Zone. If that really is Zimmy something is horribly, horribly wrong. Like actual "replacing people with Stepfordian robots" or "total demon possession" wrong. Fair point. Maybe she's not actually cured then, and the old Zimmy is waiting to come back as soon as whatever block she has in place to keep the demon's at bay comes undone. I wouldn't put it past the court to experiment with something like a magical lobotomy. There are LOADS of different potential possibilities here since we have relatively few facts to go on. |
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Post by wynne on Jul 25, 2014 18:46:16 GMT
wynneI think the extreme leap forward is just temporary because of the ether in the sea. I could see that, but at the very least she had to get the clothes before they went to the docks. |
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Post by Brother_Spartacus on Jul 25, 2014 18:49:35 GMT
^She could be dating Jack before that, and he said that he wanted to see her better dressed in Faraway Morning. It's not uncommon to take fashion advice from one's significant other.
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Post by wynne on Jul 25, 2014 18:52:22 GMT
Down to the eyebrow piercing?
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Post by Deepbluediver on Jul 25, 2014 19:02:19 GMT
I'm all for character developpement, but not complete off-sceen resolution of a major character subplot and a complete 180° for no given reason. It's not like the trick of starting a chapter ahead and then flashing back to how we got there is totally without precedent. |
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Post by Rasselas on Jul 25, 2014 19:03:30 GMT
At first I thought it was creepy of Jack to choose a girlfriend similar to Zimmy. Now that I thought about it, it might be a healthy way to deal with an obsession. Since he can't have Zimmy and he's still so infatuated, it might be good to direct those feelings in a more productive way. After all, he's shown a lot of emotional maturity in Faraway Morning in the encounter with Annie. Particularly for a kid.
If anything, this whole shebang makes me feel neither of them was completely honest in that scene.
It occurs to me that Annie might have tried to sidestep romantic involvement because of how that ended up for her parents. Aside from natural embarrassment, that might also be the reason why she was so adamant about not being interested in anyone, when Rey teased her about it. Perhaps for her kind, romantic involvement signals the beginning of their death, a time where they burn most brightly and then start to fade, giving their flame away. So, maybe there is a subconscious impulse to stay away from it, at least while they're too young.
In any case, this chapter should be very interesting.
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Post by Daedalus on Jul 25, 2014 19:04:25 GMT
I'm all for character developpement, but not complete off-sceen resolution of a major character subplot and a complete 180° for no given reason. It's not like the trick of starting a chapter ahead and then flashing back to how we got there is totally without precedent. , but this is of a scale previously unseen if so. |
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Post by Marnath on Jul 25, 2014 19:09:34 GMT
Since when was Zimmy sexually attracted to girls? I think that was a nod to the speculation that Zimmy and Gamma are an item. It's not speculation. They've each explicitly declared their love for each other in previous strips. Zimmy, when speaking to Annie. Something about "I'd kill the whole world for her if she asked." ? Gamma when Zimmy thought she was Annie. "Why do you do this for Zim.. I mean me? Why do you help?" Hidden in the static of Gamma's reply is "Because I love you." |
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