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Post by Señor Goose on Mar 5, 2014 8:29:39 GMT
Zeppelins were WW1. Look at the helmet he's holding. That's a British helmet used in the war(or something similar). Also what he's wearing relates to that time period. Why would a child have a militry issue helmet in WW1? More likely he'd have his grandad's old one from the previous war. The helmet is also similar to the ones used by the Home Guard and the air raid wardens, they even had theirs painted white so they could be seen easier among the smoke of the bombs. But what if the bombs had white smoke? |
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Post by wombat on Mar 5, 2014 8:30:04 GMT
Wait, if I may say, the poster says to send your children out of London...this would perchance mean World War I indeed. Air-bombing was quite popular during that war. There were a lot of evacuations during WWII as well, however. Maybe I'm just remembering The Lion, the Witch, and the Wardrobe too much, but I just feel more reminded of WWII by this page. The aircraft depicted in the poster don't necessarily have to be the same as the ones that would be used in the war, especially since this does seem to me like it's happening before most or all of the bombing occurs. |
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Post by sapientcoffee on Mar 5, 2014 8:30:07 GMT
What's with the giant hat person in the poster? Is that a child running to their mother? I'd thought it was a grandma wearing a hat to keep off sun. |
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Post by GK Sierra on Mar 5, 2014 8:31:50 GMT
The propaganda urging children to be sent to the countryside rings more of WWII. Perhaps Mort died in the Blitzkrieg? Unless Mort was run down by one of Rundstedt's King Tigers I don't think he was killed by the Blitzkrieg.  |
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Post by Señor Goose on Mar 5, 2014 8:33:07 GMT
For like a half a second I was totally stoked that GKC took place in an alternate universe where London was attacked by UFOs frequently. Did anybody else feel the same way?
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Post by philman on Mar 5, 2014 8:34:38 GMT
For like a half a second I was totally stoked that GKC took place in an alternate universe where London was attacked by UFOs frequently. Did anybody else feel the same way? That was EXACTLY what I thought until I stopped to look a second time! |
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Post by wombat on Mar 5, 2014 8:35:14 GMT
For like a half a second I was totally stoked that GKC took place in an alternate universe where London was attacked by UFOs frequently. Did anybody else feel the same way? My first thought was that those were UFOs, yup. |
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Post by GK Sierra on Mar 5, 2014 8:35:16 GMT
For like a half a second I was totally stoked that GKC took place in an alternate universe where London was attacked by UFOs frequently. Did anybody else feel the same way? Yeah, I actually thought they were UFOs too for a split second, and the searchlights were tractor beams abducting people. The kid's pop gun doesn't really help identify it either- the Brits used Lee-Enfields in both World Wars. |
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Post by Lightice on Mar 5, 2014 8:40:57 GMT
Based on the silhouettes I'm going to call those barrage balloons, not zeppelins. WWII still looks more probable to me, since Tom's comment suggests that se should recognise the setting at a glance, and the Blitz evacuations are fairly famous to this day while their WWI equivalent, if one even happened, is not.
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Post by ryttu3k on Mar 5, 2014 8:41:57 GMT
Yeah, I'm going to call WWII here. While kids were evacuated out of London in WWI, the widespread and widely-advertised evacuation of kids was WWII. The outfit looks like it fits the era, too, and as mentioned above, barrage balloons were used extensively in the Blitz.
The main thing really is the poster, though. The WWI evacuations weren't nearly as widely advertised, so a giant poster urging kids to leave London is very WWII.
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Post by KMar on Mar 5, 2014 8:44:06 GMT
My pick: (1) The flying things in that poster are quite round in shape, and the shape of German Zeppelin was iconic in character (long and cigar-shaped) in their time (and still are). So were barrage balloons, especially in London, and those were more round-ish in shape if memory serves correct. (Anybody remember that Doctor Who episode? Are you my Mummy?) (2) I'm sort of pulling this out of my ass, but (a) in fiction 'send the children to countryside to be safe' is more of WW2 trope (I'm looking right at you, C. S. Lewis), and I guess also in reality, maybe because general public in West did not expect that Europeans would dare to drop bombs at European civilians in WW1, but in WW2 everybody was already expecting that), and (b) the WW2 strategic bombings (of London, in this case) were much more excessive than WW1 --- Zeppelin bombings in WW1 were just trumped up for British propaganda purposes (see that poster sapientcoffee posted). There was two world wars where London was bombed, and in second one London was bombed at several times, but only a certain time period is known as 'The Blitz'. From this I take a guess that this is WW2. |
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Post by Chancellor on Mar 5, 2014 8:52:17 GMT
The propaganda urging children to be sent to the countryside rings more of WWII. Perhaps Mort died in the Blitzkrieg? Unless Mort was run down by one of Rundstedt's King Tigers I don't think he was killed by the Blitzkrieg. A slip of the metaphorical tongue. You know what I meant. |
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Post by GK Sierra on Mar 5, 2014 8:55:11 GMT
Unless Mort was run down by one of Rundstedt's King Tigers I don't think he was killed by the Blitzkrieg. A slip of the metaphorical tongue. You know what I meant. I do. I'm just being an insufferable know-it-all because history is my favorite subject on earth and in a comic about magic and science and mythology and love and families and so much other stuff, it's not often that it rolls around. 
PLZ FORGIVE
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Post by Chancellor on Mar 5, 2014 8:57:49 GMT
Nothing to forgive.
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Post by sleepcircle on Mar 5, 2014 9:12:10 GMT
i assumed they were barrage balloons when i started looking at them, yeah.
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Post by sidhekin on Mar 5, 2014 9:17:51 GMT
Clearly the quality of the print points towards WWII.
(Or III.)
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Post by keef on Mar 5, 2014 9:23:09 GMT
Almost the same text can be found here. WW2 |
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Post by sapientcoffee on Mar 5, 2014 9:29:47 GMT
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Post by noone3 on Mar 5, 2014 9:35:02 GMT
I guess I can see Tom's intentions there.
He puts it all like that in order for us to ponder on it.
Of course boy is standing where the name of the city would be on purpose. We don't even know if the names of cities in Gunnerverse are the same.
Maybe the Zeppelins/Barrage balloons are depicted like that for the same purpose.
The clothes boy is wearing are also no clue - the fashion didn't change that much in UK between wars.
The helmet he's wearing - it may be WWI style, but British used very similar ones in WWII, and some forces like Homeguard were using surplus WWI gear, like rifles and helmets.
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Post by fish on Mar 5, 2014 10:05:17 GMT
So we find out how the ether looks like from a guides point of view.  Oh no, suddenly this looks a lot more like smoke after a bombing.  |
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Post by zimmyzims on Mar 5, 2014 10:58:05 GMT
The hint to the time period is probably the Zeppelins. In all likelihood we're looking at a young Mort, which means our suspicions about his being killed during World War I are correct. Dulce Et Decorm Est and etc. Yeah. I just wonder what is the back story associating a little boy with dying for his country. Okay. Maybe that boy is not Mort, but the boy and the poster are totally cues about him dying as a little boy. And at least to me Mort has never come out as a young man, a young soldier, however naive, but as a little boy (I'm sure I've pointed this out at least once if not more often). I would actually be very surprised if he was a soldier and would want an explanation on why is he so childish. |
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Post by kuruko on Mar 5, 2014 11:02:25 GMT
If they were going to make a poster showing England being bombed in WW2, it would have been more than likely shown using planes.
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Post by GK Sierra on Mar 5, 2014 11:06:08 GMT
The hint to the time period is probably the Zeppelins. In all likelihood we're looking at a young Mort, which means our suspicions about his being killed during World War I are correct. Dulce Et Decorm Est and etc. Yeah. I just wonder what is the back story associating a little boy with dying for his country. Okay. Maybe that boy is not Mort, but the boy and the poster are totally cues about him dying as a little boy. And at least to me Mort has never come out as a young man, a young soldier, however naive, but as a little boy (I'm sure I've pointed this out at least once if not more often). I would actually be very surprised if he was a soldier and would want an explanation on why is he so childish. Oh, I wasn't saying he was a soldier. Just that he died during the time period, and possibly in relation to the conflict. |
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Post by makomk on Mar 5, 2014 11:08:26 GMT
Oh yeah, that was an interesting bit of World War II history - the Government set up evacuations of kids at the very start of the war and it took quite a while before the Germans actually started bombing the UK, so apparently some parents began to have second thoughts about the whole thing. |
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Post by Gotolei on Mar 5, 2014 11:24:35 GMT
So we find out how the ether looks like from a guides point of view. Oh no, suddenly this looks a lot more like smoke after a bombing. Whoa.. So maybe Annie goes back through time by magical mystical memory machine spell and serves as Mort's guide just after the death happened? What would happen to current-day Mort? Would he just go poof in front of a watching Kat or something..?  |
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Post by zimmyzims on Mar 5, 2014 11:31:35 GMT
Wait, if I may say, the poster says to send your children out of London...this would perchance mean World War I indeed. Air-bombing was quite popular during that war. There were a lot of evacuations during WWII as well, however. Maybe I'm just remembering The Lion, the Witch, and the Wardrobe too much, but I just feel more reminded of WWII by this page. The aircraft depicted in the poster don't necessarily have to be the same as the ones that would be used in the war, especially since this does seem to me like it's happening before most or all of the bombing occurs. Seriously, come WWII, the time of zeppelins was over. nobody would have been crazy enough to put a flying hydrogen bomb over their own city, and Germans would have never been able to fly those whales over the channel. The thing is, you feel WWII, because you've been reading a book where there are evacuations to the country side. But those happen during wars whenever there is threat to the towns: civil people and particularly kids are largely evacuated, and with bombing that threat is there. So the things that you are familiar with apply to other contexts than the one that you know them from, but there are other elements in this picture that were not there in the context you are thinking. WWII, bombing was done by airplanes, bombers, whereas airships came obsolete before that, between Hindenburg 1937 and precisely WWII, as they were found so inapt to use during war time. But here there are zeppelins, so it is not WWII, it is WWI, even if the general imagery is more familiar to you from WWII context. In addition, we already know to associate Mort's death with the verse "dulcem et decorum est pro patria mori" that has been in many occasions in history spelled in memory of those who have died on fields of war, but it bears strong relation to WWI and to my very limited knowledge has been much less used during wars after WWI, because during that time it was turned into a pacifist poem by Wilfred Owen and it became obvious to many that calling dying for one's country sweet approaches mockery of those who actually suffer horrible deaths (Owen described a death under gas attack which did not appear so sweet). I'm not sure, though, if it was still used in WWII. Maybe it was. But in any event, even before this picture, we had been given a hint that Mort's death might have to do with WWI, as was discussed, and the combination of the poster and the zeppelins all but affirm that this hunch was correct. So, back to Mort's death. I'm ever more sure that he was not a soldier, and did not die on fields of "glory". However, the Spanish flu seems less likely now, because when it really hit, the bombings were mostly over. Pandemic waves at Britain took place starting June 1918, and Zeppelin bombing was mostly over then, only a few raids coming after it, and I wonder whether they really campaigned for evacuation at that point anymore. It is still a possibility though, because that just says that this moment is before the pandemic, which means that if he is not dead by the time of the picture, he still can face the death by Spanish flu. It wouldn't be the first time Tom does little jumps in time. |
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Post by zimmyzims on Mar 5, 2014 11:33:55 GMT
Yeah. I just wonder what is the back story associating a little boy with dying for his country. Okay. Maybe that boy is not Mort, but the boy and the poster are totally cues about him dying as a little boy. And at least to me Mort has never come out as a young man, a young soldier, however naive, but as a little boy (I'm sure I've pointed this out at least once if not more often). I would actually be very surprised if he was a soldier and would want an explanation on why is he so childish. Oh, I wasn't saying he was a soldier. Just that he died during the time period, and possibly in relation to the conflict. Oh, didn't mean that you did. Just that I recall from earlier discussions speculations about Mort's death on the fields in WWI. We're in full agreement and think we have been about this one before too: died as a little child during WWI. |
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Post by kuruko on Mar 5, 2014 11:41:14 GMT
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Post by Lightice on Mar 5, 2014 11:57:43 GMT
Seriously, come WWII, the time of zeppelins was over. nobody would have been crazy enough to put a flying hydrogen bomb over their own city, and Germans would have never been able to fly those whales over the channel. The thing is, you feel WWII, because you've been reading a book where there are evacuations to the country side. But those happen during wars whenever there is threat to the towns: civil people and particularly kids are largely evacuated, and with bombing that threat is there. So the things that you are familiar with apply to other contexts than the one that you know them from, but there are other elements in this picture that were not there in the context you are thinking. WWII, bombing was done by airplanes, bombers, whereas airships came obsolete before that, between Hindenburg 1937 and precisely WWII, as they were found so inapt to use during war time. But here there are zeppelins, so it is not WWII, it is WWI, even if the general imagery is more familiar to you from WWII context. Except that those things on the poster are still not cigar-shaped WWI zeppelins, but egg-shaped WWII barrage balloons. The poster itself is WWII-style and the mass evacuations from the Blitz were, at least to my knowledge, the only ones of their kind, not repeated before or since in British war effort. |
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Post by kuruko on Mar 5, 2014 12:15:13 GMT
Those aren't barrage balloons, they are zeps. Posters in WW2 would have shown planes, not barrage balloons. Here is an image showing a WW1 poster with a zep  Every WW2 poster I could find that showed bombing had planes in it. Poster styles during both wars weren't all that different |
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