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Post by Covalent on Feb 15, 2014 5:09:33 GMT
I guess I could try to translate some nouns, too.. like maybe "blinker stone" could be 瞬き石 (literally, "blink stone"). Btw while you're here, what's your thought re: moving to the other board? Well, to be fair, if we DID split up into different boards, compared to other languages, the Japanese board would be very slow/inactive, on account of there being only 2 (most likely) dedicated posters for that language. |
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Post by Daedalus on Feb 15, 2014 5:16:49 GMT
Btw while you're here, what's your thought re: moving to the other board? Well, to be fair, if we DID split up into different boards, compared to other languages, the Japanese board would be very slow/inactive, on account of there being only 2 (most likely) dedicated posters for that language. Eh it's an improvement over being drowned in German vocabulary (no offense, gentle German-speakers). I have a similar problem with the Spanish: only 3 people plus whoever I can get off-line! And it can't be more slow nor inactive than the current contents of that side of the forum  |
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Post by Covalent on Feb 15, 2014 5:26:29 GMT
Well, to be fair, if we DID split up into different boards, compared to other languages, the Japanese board would be very slow/inactive, on account of there being only 2 (most likely) dedicated posters for that language. Eh it's an improvement over being drowned in German vocabulary (no offense, gentle German-speakers). I have a similar problem with the Spanish: only 3 people plus whoever I can get off-line! And it can't be more slow nor inactive than the current contents of that side of the forum Well, maybe you guys can pop in and learn a little bit of Japanese at the same time. I think it'll be good, if and only if we can have active threads. |
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Post by Señor Goose on Feb 15, 2014 6:04:17 GMT
Hell, I'm just gonna go start a new thread. Standby for the link.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 15, 2014 13:30:50 GMT
Nenn mich Anja, und das hier ist Donald - that usually implies "duzen" instead of "siezen", but Annie might continue to use "sie", being not comfortable with duzing (neologisming?) her teachers. If she does so, when do you plan to let her switch to "du"? As Annie is quick to make friends with all kinds of creatures, is she also quick to use "du"? Or is she too literate and polite? She continues to use »Sie« for Kat's parents throughout the chapter even though Anja would clearly prefer otherwise. Since Annie addresses them as »Mr. and Mrs. Donlan« at the end, I inferred she wouldn't use »du« if she wasn't one a first-name basis. She might switch later — I'll decide based on the context. In my translation of Chapter Three, Annie uses »Sie« when talking to Renard on the roof, but »du« when she enters his cell and tries to ask about her mother, and also when Reynardine drops his disguise in Chapter Five. She addresses Shadow 2 and Robot as »du« from the get-go, but uses »Sie« once with Mort before he speaks to her. If I ever get that far, she'd probably use »du« (or the princely »Ihr«!) to address Coyote in Chapter Fourteen, but not for Ysengrin. That's one quirk of the German language that bothers me to no end: its unnecessarily awkward demonstrative pronouns. I think the phrasing is technically fine as it is, but your suggestions are probably more common in everyday speech. I'll go with »dies hier«, since the referred object is extremely close to the speaker. Eglamore says »it looks like...«, not »obviously«. Moreover, the abilities and inaccuracies of the human eye are such an important theme throughout the comic that I prefer »augenscheinlich« in this case. That's fine. I like it. I'll think about it. Counter-proposal: »Insofern brauchst du dir keine Gedanken zu machen.« I am ashamed I did not catch this typo. It's literally the worst typo. In any event, I rephrased the sentence as follows: »Wenn es Ihnen nichts ausmacht, hätte ich auch etwas, das Sie sich anschauen sollten.« The original said »assure«, but »versichere« seemed a tad obstructive. I'll think about this one as well. German sure uses a lot of static adverbials of time and place where English leaves them out entirely. Actually, this usage is rooted quite deeply within the language. When shown a short clip of two guys walking down the street past a bench, a control group of English speakers, when asked to describe it, tended to say »two guys are walking down the road«, whereas the Germans apparently preferred »two guys are walking past a bench«. I learned this at summer academy some years ago. Since I translated Renard's »he had no idea...« in Chapter Five as »er ahnte nicht«, I did the same thing here. Another possibility that I personally like is »hätte ... nicht vermutet, dass er ...« Thank you. |
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Post by hnau on Feb 15, 2014 16:30:20 GMT
That's fine.
or: "Wenn es Ihnen nichts ausmacht,/: ich hätte da auch etwas, das Sie sich anschauen sollten"
"Versichern" is correct, but it sounds a bit too formal for this situation. "Sagen" in this context is more like swearing ("verily, verily, I say unto you" / "wahrlich, wahrlich, ich sage euch").
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Post by hnau on Feb 15, 2014 21:50:05 GMT
[111]
gerne bei zuschaun. - isn't that Zimmy's style?
Du wirst deine Zunge hüten, bis ich dir zu sprechen erlaube! - better: "bis ich dir erlaube, zu sprechen" / "bis ich dir das Sprechen erlaube"
[126]
Obwohl der Fluss viel zu breit gewesen wäre, um ihn zu überqueren, entschloss ich mich, dem Phänomen nachzugehen. - rather complicated. "Der Fluss war viel zu breit, um ihn zu überqueren. Dennoch entschloss ich mich ..."
[127]
Bitte entschuldige mich. - that's what you say when you have to leave. "Entschuldige bitte."
[128]
fiese, fette Trulla - very good, made me laugh
[129]
Ich war mir nicht bewusst, dass er sprechen kann. - shorter: "Mir war nicht bewusst, ..."
[134]
Antimony... lebewohl. - "lebe wohl." It's not merely a salutation, but also a sincere wish.
[136]
Ich werd schon in Ordnung sein. - sounds strange. "Mir geht's prima."?
(to be continued)
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Post by Deleted on Feb 17, 2014 14:52:21 GMT
Changes have been made to Chapters 5—8 accordingly. It's been a rather busy weekend, I didn't even get the bonus page done, but I'll remedy this soon enough. — In addition, the OP now links to Covalent's Japanese thread.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 19, 2014 4:18:50 GMT
Chapter Nine has been completed, and a link is provided in the OP. I spent most of my free time on cooking stuff, reading Madame Bovary, and playing through Final Fantasy VI, so I don't really have an excuse for the delay.
Did you know that there's a complete translation into Russian? Because apparently, there is a complete translation into Russian. I've linked to it in the OP as well.
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Post by judgedeadd on Feb 19, 2014 6:40:26 GMT
There is also a complete translation into Polish. All pages (warning: BIG page), page 1. |
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Post by Daedalus on Feb 19, 2014 8:20:37 GMT
Chapter Nine has been completed, and a link is provided in the OP. I spent most of my free time on cooking stuff, reading Madame Bovary, and playing through Final Fantasy VI, so I don't really have an excuse for the delay. Did you know that there's a complete translation into Russian? Because apparently, there is a complete translation into Russian. I've linked to it in the OP as well. Bah, I never liked Madame Bovary. I found her despicable. But maybe that's the point, I guess. How's Final Fantasy treating you? |
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Post by Streben on Feb 19, 2014 11:40:59 GMT
Beautiful project.
I'm a long time lurker and I've always thought of translating Gunnerkrigg Court in my first language, Italian.
But one thing has always stopped me: in order to share this beautiful work with the Italian public I would, undoubtedly, have to put the translations on social networking websites with ads, what would be the author's stance on it? What do you guys think?
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Post by Deleted on Feb 19, 2014 13:15:59 GMT
Definitely ask him for permission if anyone should make money off it. Bah, I never liked Madame Bovary. I found her despicable. But maybe that's the point, I guess. Emma may have been unfairly harsh on her husband, but I can't blame her for desiring freedom, or for her romantic dreams. I don't think Flaubert intended to moralize here — on the contrary, he avoided such judgment throughout the book. His aim was to write immersive books, and did he ever. Salammbô is up next when I find the time. Once you get all the necessary stuff, which is not too difficult, Relm dualcasts Ultima for 19998 damage per turn at the cost of 2 MP. There's not much to say about the fights, really. They tend to be over quickly. I beat Goddess in round about thirty seconds, most of which were taken up by the casting animation. I really liked the progression of the plot, and how the heroes actually lose and get scattered across the planet at the end of the first half. Setzer was my favourite party member, followed by Relm, Strago, Shadow, Gogo and Cyan. Gau wasn't very interesting, but Rages are insanely good. Celes was okay until her every line became something about Locke. Screw Locke. I certainly wouldn't have bothered with him if Phoenix wasn't so good and Ultima wasn't even better. |
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Post by Señor Goose on Feb 19, 2014 19:31:05 GMT
But one thing has always stopped me: in order to share this beautiful work with the Italian public I would, undoubtedly, have to put the translations on social networking websites with ads, what would be the author's stance on it? What do you guys think? That's a good point, someone should absolutely give Tom a heads-up before we go crazy on this. I can't imagine him disapproving, but in any case, he might like to know. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 19, 2014 20:25:34 GMT
Spacemonauts! Chapter Ten awaits your feedback! It need not even be haptic feedback! Somehow the bonus page has VANISHED MYSTERIOUSLY (probably abducted by the Enigmarons), but once more, it shall be delivered soonish enough. ---- I would like to preserve a biblical reference, but not even Luther in his 1545 translation has strong words. Nowadays, "O Gott" / "Oh Gott" / "Oh mein Gott!" or somtimes just "Gott!" is not necessarily the invocation of a deity but more of an exclamation. As I understand "Strike me down", it would be an act of mercy, with death preferable to the shame of being caught playing with dolls. "Im Erdboden versinken" carries that subtext even more than just "sterben". Slightly modernized, Renard could say: "(Oh (mein)) Gott! Ich will im Erdboden versinken!". Renard now says »Oh, die Sintflut über mich!« (lit. »oh, the deluge over me!«) so as to convey a death wish and refer to the Bible, and also to being struck down by overwhelming force from above. What do you think?
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Post by hnau on Feb 21, 2014 8:53:23 GMT
Moving with my comments to the other thread, so we can keep this one tidy for organizational stuff, announcements, literary discussions, etc.
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Post by Streben on Feb 24, 2014 11:44:01 GMT
That's a good point, someone should absolutely give Tom a heads-up before we go crazy on this. I can't imagine him disapproving, but in any case, he might like to know. Definitely ask him for permission if anyone should make money off it. Thanks, that's what I thought, do you happen to know which is the best way to contact Tom? E-mail? Twitter (it could be a bit problematic due to the 140 characters limit, eheh)? This forum? |
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Post by snipertom on Feb 24, 2014 12:40:14 GMT
Basically, what a great (set of) project(s)!!  |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 27, 2014 14:01:53 GMT
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Post by zimmyzims on Feb 27, 2014 15:18:46 GMT
»Roboter« is absolutely not an option because not only is that even more confusing, see above, it also sounds weird as a proper name in German, akin to calling your cat »Cat«. Don't want to mess your translations, and my German is awful, but to me your reasoning seems to make "Roboter" the correct translation. "Robot" is an awkward proper name, and I've always read that so that it is meant to be, not only because, as Daedalus pointed out, a Gunnerbot would definitely name himself "Robot", but more importantly because it is precisely as if Annie had named a cat "Cat". And she would have. For reference, give a new toy pet, say, a dog, to a little child, old enough to no longer call animals moo-moo and woof-woof, one that knows their names. Then and ask what is the name of her own, personal, singular toy dog. It is "Dog". Don't do this with strange children, because you'll be jailed, but listen sometimes to the names that children give to their toy pets. If these names are anything but very extremely concrete, you know that the kids have been pushed by their elders towards giving that name, or at least not giving some less unimaginative name. It is not "Doggy" nor is their toy cat "Kitty", they are "dog" and "Cat" and if they have a Giraffe toy, its name is "Giraffe". I tell this from experience. Annie was no longer that little a child when she made robot, though, although she very much seemed much younger than we have let understood she was. But this bears some significance. She was of an age where kids have started to give cutie names and serious proper names to their toys, but Annie was also depicted as socially immature even for her age, definitely socially very very awkward, and I've always understood that this was a part of her social awkwardness. Who 12-year-old would still call their cat "Cat"? Annie would. Likewise, she named her new shadow imaginatively "Shadow 2". I bet her pet wolf's name was "Wolf" before Rey started to possess it. And I think "Robo" is to some extent used in English too (e.g. "Robocop", that toy "Robo fish"), just like in about every single language I can imagine at the moment. Which makes me think that if Tom would have wanted a cute nickname, he could have made Annie call her invention "Robo". But he deliberately chose the awkward alternative (be it perhaps a little less awkward than it is in German). To my mind, you're killing some of Tom's intention just for your own comfort. The kidney ache you're having with "a robot" "the robot" "that robot" "robots" "the robots" and "Robot" around same time exists for the English version and is clearly meant to be so - and Tom doesn't even use capital letters. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 27, 2014 17:26:43 GMT
»Roboter« is absolutely not an option because not only is that even more confusing, see above, it also sounds weird as a proper name in German, akin to calling your cat »Cat«. Don't want to mess your translations, and my German is awful, but to me your reasoning seems to make "Roboter" the correct translation. "Robot" is an awkward proper name, and I've always read that so that it is meant to be, not only because, as Daedalus pointed out, a Gunnerbot would definitely name himself "Robot", but more importantly because it is precisely as if Annie had named a cat "Cat". And she would have. For reference, give a new toy pet, say, a dog, to a little child, old enough to no longer call animals moo-moo and woof-woof, one that knows their names. Then and ask what is the name of her own, personal, singular toy dog. It is "Dog". Don't do this with strange children, because you'll be jailed, but listen sometimes to the names that children give to their toy pets. If these names are anything but very extremely concrete, you know that the kids have been pushed by their elders towards giving that name, or at least not giving some less unimaginative name. It is not "Doggy" nor is their toy cat "Kitty", they are "dog" and "Cat" and if they have a Giraffe toy, its name is "Giraffe". I tell this from experience. From personal experience, I can assure you that my first toy elephant was named »Elefanti« in German, and I gave some silly names to the motley band of his fellows. There were rabbit sisters going by »Anna« and »Joana Langlöffel«; there was a dog named »Alfredo«, and I sure loved alliterations in the vein of »Melanie Meerschweinchen« (two dactyls). There was another dog named »Fenego« (first syllable stressed, short E, long O), which isn't even a name anywhere. All of these were present when I got my first keyboard at Christmas, which must have been at the age of four. — I'm saying that kids have great imagination. I guess I was a pretty awkward child, too. That's all your good opinion, but the comic doesn't prove it, and if there's one thing we have in common, it's that we're not Tom Siddell and cannot know this stuff, only imagine it for ourselves. »Robo« was a common casual abbreviation for »Roboter« among all the mechanics and electricians I talked to during my two-week internship back in Year 10; notably, it was not a cutesy nickname, but rather a whimsical one. This is hard to explain and very easy to grasp in natura. I've been a bit sloppy with my phrasing, anyway. The much closer analogy to »Kitty« for a robot is »Robbi«, as proven by Robbi, Tobbi und das Fliewatüüt, the greatest show to ever air on German children's television. Annie greets Robot as »Roboter« when she assembles him, by the way. She switches afterwards. Evidently, you haven't read the actual translation. That »kidney ache« comment, like quite a lot of stuff I post, was meant to be slightly facetious. Please don't preach down to me if you start your post with admitting your weak grasp of German. If you want me to post proof of my abilities, I can provide some; I don't think that's necessary, though. However, the point you make is a valid one. I've already considered switching »Robo« to »Roboter«, but it remains extremely unfit for both Kat and Shadow 2 to call him by that name. Remember that German speech is almost inevitably more stilted than its literal English translation, with its staccato prosody, and if the literal choice was always the best one, translation could be performed by computers easily. I've also considered »Robot« instead, but that sounds like everybody fell out of Raumpatrouille Orion. hnau, I'd be pretty interested in your take on this matter! |
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Post by zimmyzims on Feb 27, 2014 18:55:12 GMT
@korba
Quoting whole posts gets too messy to handle rapidly, so just two points:
- evidently I have not read your translation, as I said, my German is garbage. I only wished to comment the discussion, because to me your reasoning defended more the opposite side than that of yours.
- I cut short that kids' toys example. Having a lot of very recent experience on a reasonable amount of kids as well as read some developmental psychology, this was just not something that I drew out of thin air. I do reckon that small kids animals end up having names that are not this-worldly. Especially very small kids that have hard time with the actual names of animals. This is not because of their strong imagination, though.* However, the first name to practically each animal toy that I have heard a sub 4-year-old, or even early 4-year-old child give, has been the closest he has got to say the name or the voice that he has been told that belongs to the animal. So, if the parents give a toy rabbit to a kid, and have always called rabbits "bunny" to the concerned kid, he will call that rabbit "bunny", until something makes him change his mind - usually growing older and seeing that children are immensely concrete. If the toy is represented with a brand name, then that brand will be the name of the toy pet. Each time that this name changes, the kid has been strongly pushed to change it by his parents or other older persons.
*The common view of kids are very imaginative is based on their tendency to easily think of unreal things as real and act counterfactually. That, however, is not so much due to a capacity of imagination, skill of thinking of the fictional, but results from the low level of abstraction and inability to make difference between imaginary and real, thus often precisely inability to imagine what would happen or what would be if it was not something they had already learned it is. Only their image of reality often involves a lot of counterfactual data, mostly because they have the imaginative capacity of imagining as real what they are told (but precisely not imagining it to be just a story, just imagination, and not real, which is what I call their extreme concrecy) and adults keep on telling them lies and fairytales while they still have very little knowledge to judge new information with. Adults have a tendency to interpret children's lack of knowledge and inability to distinguish between real and fictional as a high level of imagination, while it is more of the opposite. Little kids give strange names to their toys not because of their imagination, but because they copy badly something they have heard, usually something they have heard some other similar animal being called. I could give you tens of examples very similar to your Fenego and Alfredo, always looking very imaginative in appearance, but each time there is this kind of history to explain it. I will not do it as that's private life of others and I respect it even if it is kids. If there is no such history present, then a dog will be "Dog" or whatever dogs generally are called when kid has been around. If he has as much as had a funny encounter with a dog called "Ralphie", for example, his toy dog will likely be named by Ralphie, although more probably "Rally" or "Laffy" or something else that is easier to pronounce to that particular kid and that he remembers at the moment that he names his toy dog.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 27, 2014 19:53:04 GMT
In fact, I know the simple history behind the names I gave to my lil' animals! Alfredo was a name printed on the little cerulean ice-cream truck that I had (along with GELATI), and I liked it; to this day I'm not sure about »Fenego«, but I know that I was probably influenced by »Ildikó« and just stuck sounds upon the structure until I liked it. As a kid, I had quite the habit of singing songs in languages I didn't understand, owing to my parents' collection, and such exposure naturally leads one to be whimsical with language. — A few months ago, I dug around in an old notebook that I had brought to Mallorca as a five-year-old, which contained a strange scribble of some genuine Spanish words mixed with pseudo-Spanish to combine into whimsical nonsense, and there were actual little stories in German about the four winds (North, West, East, South), because, on some market in Alcudia, I had seen a towel with »the four winds« (clouds with faces blowing air), and what I'd thought to be their Spanish names, printed upon it. I maintain that kids have great imagination precisely because of this kind of fuzzy and ignorant mixery. It's amusing to look upon today, as an adult, but the sheer naivité with which I went about endears me personally. Like that time I tied some cheap little finger-doll to a helium balloon, and its knotted string slipped off my finger as I left the car, and I could do nothing at all as the thing ascended into heaven. I cried for maybe half an hour; my mother told me there was no getting it back, and I said, »no, I could get it back with a crane, a giant crane!«. Yeah. Such incidents, had they not happened, would have left me a poorer man for these persistent memories. The clumsiest attempt to invent names for your pets by pulling them from whatever source of influence still is to be valued as a creative effort, because thereby, Alfredo is no longer a stereotypical Italian name on a mass-produced plastic toy, but that witty dog who always annoys Elefanti. This is hugely important. That's not at all what this discussion is about, but I don't mind. Why the sudden interest, zimmyzims? You've never posted in this thread before. |
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Post by hnau on Mar 1, 2014 22:54:31 GMT
Annie greets Robot as »Roboter« when she assembles him, by the way. She switches afterwards. ... hnau, I'd be pretty interested in your take on this matter! If I were his "mommy", I'd probably shorten "Roboter" to "Robo", just as a "Veronika" is often called "Vroni" by her parents. Btw., "Robot" is a German word, see Wiktionary. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 3, 2014 19:04:47 GMT
Chapter Twelve may contain traces of robots. Edit: The bonus pages for Chapters 10 and 12 are finally online as well.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 6, 2014 12:51:14 GMT
Still listening to Roc Marci all the time. In other news, there's a new chapter online, numbered 13, mostly concerning slam dunks and British rave bands. A pretty good day so far in Germany. |
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Post by Covalent on Mar 8, 2014 19:40:46 GMT
If I may chime in, I always thought relative clauses were a really difficult topic for me in German, mostly due to the case changes. I think that they're a lot easier to do in Japanese, because the structure is fairly simple. All it is is [plain form clause] + [noun]. For example 京都に近い町 meaning "a town that is close to Kyōto".
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Post by Deleted on Mar 9, 2014 12:43:22 GMT
With my excellent knowledge of Japanese (read: none at all) and the power of Wikimedia material, I tried to figure out what the first line of your signature says.
I could decipher »koko de nihongo o (?) su koto ga dekimasu«, which apparently means »this-place [adessive marker] Japanese-language [direct object marker] (?) (?) that [subject marker] becomes-possible«. In other words, »here (in this place) I can speak Japanese« or something?
At least, I think I can actually transliterate my username now: こるぼ. — One would probably use Katakana but eh.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 10, 2014 6:40:40 GMT
Chapter Fourteen was probably the keystone chapter where the comic, in my perception, first made the leap from »entertaining« to »amazing«. For the first time, the larger struggles were made apparent; Reynardine's past was hinted at, as well as the reason why Eglamore acted so strange around Annie; and of course, Coyote made his entrance (along with Jones, less obviously). The narration was tense, the characters intriguing, their agendas mostly hidden, and I wanted to find out how it would all unfurl. So yeah, I translated that, too. Take a look if you want. It's the wordiest one yet by quite a margin. Beware! ---- As for the next chapter, I've found that there's no sensible way to translate »Red« into German and still have it sound like a name. I guess I'll stick with »Red« unless I get smart and swap it for »Roxanne« (I will not do this). |
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Post by Covalent on Mar 10, 2014 6:59:09 GMT
With my excellent knowledge of Japanese (read: none at all) and the power of Wikimedia material, I tried to figure out what the first line of your signature says. I could decipher »koko de nihongo o (?) su koto ga dekimasu«, which apparently means »this-place [ adessive marker] Japanese-language [ direct object marker] (?) (?) that [ subject marker] becomes-possible«. In other words, »here (in this place) I can speak Japanese« or something? At least, I think I can actually transliterate my username now: こるぼ. — One would probably use Katakana but eh. "You can speak Japanese here" And I don't blame you for the lack of kanji knowledge, evidenced by the question mark. xD Here's what you have to learn in that department: As for your username... that depends. It could be コルバ or コールバ or コーバ or another combination; it all depends on how it's enunciated and such. You might find this of interest: in Japanese the word for the German language is ドイツ語 ( doitsu-go). |
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