Translating Gunnerkrigg Court (Update: Jun 29)

[legion]

Feb 10, 2014 12:18:32 GMT keef said:

I read Mark Twain on the subject yesterday, very enlightening..

Mark Twain was an idiot, German is a relatively easy language for an English speaker.

[hnau]

And here are my comments for chapters 3 and 4:

[38]
Zeit, zu Bett zu gehn! - "ins Bett" omits the repetition of "zu", and is more everyday speech (at least where I come from)
Nachti-Nachti! - never heard this before, why not "Gute Nacht!"?

[62]
Also, "Huuu" zu rufen, hat dir nicht geholfen. - better: "... war auch nicht besonders hilfreich."

Regarding the names, we Germans are used to English names in translated books or movies.

[Deleted]

I've finished the manuscript for Chapter Five. Translating science words into German makes me want to bite my pencils in half, but Zimmy and Renard should feature in every page I translate, they're excellent fun to write.

Feb 10, 2014 19:29:33 GMT hnau said:

dass ich einen zweiten Schatten erworben zu haben schien - this might be correct, but it is too complicated (3 non-auxiliary verbs in a row). I'd suggest "dass ich allem Anschein nach einen zweiten Schatten erworben hatte".

How's this: »...dass ich scheinbar einen zweiten Schatten erworben hatte«?

I'd suggest "Pasiphae war seine Mutter, des Minos, des Königs der Kreter Gemahlin."

This is the result of two A4 papers full of couplets, slight revisions and violent eradication:

»Eine urtümliche griechische Bestie, halb Stier, halb Mensch,
Sohn Pasiphaës, der kretischen Königin, die Minos' Frau war.«

Ich hätte mehr Bücher zu finden erwartet. - A better translation would be: "Ich hätte hier mehr Bücher erwartet." Or: "Ich hätte erwartet, dass es hier mehr Bücher gibt."
(It's hard to say what's wrong with your translation. Al least, you need to rearrange the sentence and add "hier": "Ich hätte erwartet, hier mehr Bücher zu finden" or "... vorzufinden". You might say "Ich hätte erwartet, mehr Bücher zu finden" after searching and gathering books for hours. Not after just walking into a library.)

»Ich hätte hier mehr Bücher vorzufinden erwartet«?
»Ich hätte hier [doch] eine größere Auswahl [an Büchern] erwartet«?

A "Inhaltsverzeichnis" is only those few pages of "contents" in a book. Maybe a "Wegweiser"?

I'd prefer a Budweiser. (Your suggestion fits perfectly, though.)

Vielen Dank, Basil! - Basilios?

Basilios.

This was a great help, thank you very much! I'll update the documents in short order.

Edit: I can personally testify that at least one German person says »Nachti-Nachti«. Perhaps »Nachti, Nachti!« looks less monstrous, though? I dunno. — I went for this rather than »Gute Nacht!« because I'll try to be faithful to the original text, unless the result looks extremely awkward or anaemic.

[Covalent]

It's sad no Japanese people are here to correct me on my attempts at translation. :c

日本語を勉強しているんですが、まだ日本語が苦手なので、翻訳はだめです。

[GK Sierra]

Feb 10, 2014 19:54:06 GMT legion said:

Feb 10, 2014 12:18:32 GMT keef said:

I read Mark Twain on the subject yesterday, very enlightening..

Mark Twain was an idiot, German is a relatively easy language for an English speaker.

It is quite true that it is one of the easier languages for English speakers, but the passage about genders and dative cases struck home. I cannot keep them straight for the life of me.

I found it slightly hypocritical, though, for him to critique German for having weak rules and loads of exceptions because English is perpetrator number one of that offense.

[legion]

Case usage in German though is about comparable in difficulty (for a foreign speaker) to learning when and where to use in/on/at/to in English (especially since German nouns barely decline at all).

[Señor Goose]

Feb 10, 2014 23:43:45 GMT GK Sierra said:

Feb 10, 2014 19:54:06 GMT legion said:

Mark Twain was an idiot, German is a relatively easy language for an English speaker.

It is quite true that it is one of the easier languages for English speakers, but the passage about genders and dative cases struck home. I cannot keep them straight for the life of me.

I found it slightly hypocritical, though, for him to critique German for having weak rules and loads of exceptions because English is perpetrator number one of that offense.

What is wrong with you people? Mark Twain was a satirist! He made fun of things like it was his job because it was his job! He cast his line 134 years ago and he's still trolling people today.

[hnau]

Feb 10, 2014 22:20:54 GMT @korba said:

Feb 10, 2014 19:29:33 GMT hnau said:

dass ich einen zweiten Schatten erworben zu haben schien - this might be correct, but it is too complicated (3 non-auxiliary verbs in a row). I'd suggest "dass ich allem Anschein nach einen zweiten Schatten erworben hatte".

How's this: »...dass ich scheinbar einen zweiten Schatten erworben hatte«?

You might use any of these: scheinbar, anscheinend, allem Anschein nach. It depends on the nuances of the original. There is a clash between "Tatsache" and "scheinbar". "Scheinbar" leans toward "it is very propable that this is not a shadow (it might be my imagination or a trick or ...)". Later, Annie states that he is in fact some kind of shadow, i.e. Shadow Two. "Anscheinend" is more neutral and seems to fit better. "Allem Anschein nach" is also neutral, but a bit more literary, or stilted. I went with this as Annie sounds quite literary in German (using simple past).

Ich hätte mehr Bücher zu finden erwartet. - A better translation would be: "Ich hätte hier mehr Bücher erwartet." Or: "Ich hätte erwartet, dass es hier mehr Bücher gibt."
(It's hard to say what's wrong with your translation. Al least, you need to rearrange the sentence and add "hier": "Ich hätte erwartet, hier mehr Bücher zu finden" or "... vorzufinden". You might say "Ich hätte erwartet, mehr Bücher zu finden" after searching and gathering books for hours. Not after just walking into a library.)

»Ich hätte hier mehr Bücher vorzufinden erwartet«?
»Ich hätte hier [doch] eine größere Auswahl [an Büchern] erwartet«?

»Ich hätte hier mehr Bücher vorzufinden erwartet« doesn't sound natural. »Ich hätte hier [doch] eine größere Auswahl [an Büchern] erwartet« is very good in either variant.

I can personally testify that at least one German person says »Nachti-Nachti«. Perhaps »Nachti, Nachti!« looks less monstrous, though? I dunno. — I went for this rather than »Gute Nacht!« because I'll try to be faithful to the original text, unless the result looks extremely awkward or anaemic.

I've found some references on YouTube ("Nachti-Nachti", "Nachti-Nacht"). I suspect that it is (or was) regional to the northern parts of Germany. I'd use the hyphenated version, but there are also instances with a space only.

[hnau]

Feb 10, 2014 22:20:54 GMT @korba said:

I'd suggest "Pasiphae war seine Mutter, des Minos, des Königs der Kreter Gemahlin."

This is the result of two A4 papers full of couplets, slight revisions and violent eradication:

»Eine urtümliche griechische Bestie, halb Stier, halb Mensch,
Sohn Pasiphaës, der kretischen Königin, die Minos' Frau war.«

I'm a geek of many areas, but not of literature. You'd need somebody on that level for qualified comments on that.

I'd prefer a Budweiser. (Your suggestion fits perfectly, though.)

For German translations, try a Tegernseer Bier

[legion]

Feb 11, 2014 3:10:13 GMT Señor Goose said:

What is wrong with you people? Mark Twain was a satirist! He made fun of things like it was his job because it was his job! He cast his line 134 years ago and he's still trolling people today.

There's satire and there's outright lying.

[Deleted]

Chapter Five is online.

Mark Twain's essay is grossly inaccurate in some places and also contains some funny lines (»I'd rather decline two beers than one German adjective«). Nothing more needs to be said about this, I think.

[Señor Goose]

Feb 11, 2014 12:51:44 GMT legion said:

Feb 11, 2014 3:10:13 GMT Señor Goose said:

What is wrong with you people? Mark Twain was a satirist! He made fun of things like it was his job because it was his job! He cast his line 134 years ago and he's still trolling people today.

There's satire and there's outright lying.

If you do it right, no one can tell the difference.

[hnau]

A few comments on chapter 5, I'll have to read it again:

[74]
Kackerfindung - On first try, I've read Kacker-Findung, better put a hyphen after Kack

[77]
Solch eine Schande. - "Das ist eine Schande!"

[78]
Wir schlichen uns, sobald wir konnten, in die Mehrzweckhalle. - "so bald wir konnten" implies a delay, e.g. you can't go until that teacher down the hall finally goes to bed. As I understand the sentence, it is more about limited speed due to the necessity of sneaking. "So schnell wir konnten, schlichen wir zur Mehrzweckhalle."

schleichen => focus is on the process of sneaking
sich schleichen => focus is more on the result
in die Halle => focus is on entering the hall, not on the long way

[80]
Renard is using strong words, but his speech is a bit antiquated?

[82]
Wasauchimmer - not sure about that. Maybe "Ach was!"?

[83]
wiederbegegnen - "wieder begegnen"
Schachtel - "Schatulle". Might even be a small "Truhe" (made of wood, with a lock). A "Schachtel" is a cardboard box.

[Deleted]

Updates have been made to Chapter Five, including but not limited to addressing the following issues:

Feb 11, 2014 17:47:35 GMT hnau said:

Kackerfindung - On first try, I've read Kacker-Findung, better put a hyphen after Kack :)

By request, the crap has been hyphenated off the invention.

Solch eine Schande. - "Das ist eine Schande!"

He's not really upset, though. I replaced it with »Welch eine Schande.«

Wir schlichen uns, sobald wir konnten, in die Mehrzweckhalle. - "so bald wir konnten" implies a delay, e.g. you can't go until that teacher down the hall finally goes to bed. As I understand the sentence, it is more about limited speed due to the necessity of sneaking. "So schnell wir konnten, schlichen wir zur Mehrzweckhalle."

The revised version is »So rasch wir konnten, schlichen wir hinüber zur Mehrzweckhalle.« Edit: I decided to change this again to »Sobald wir konnten«, since the original says »as soon as we could«, not »as fast as we could«. Then I decided to change the order of the clauses and throw in »uns« again.

Renard is using strong words, but his speech is a bit antiquated?

Intentionally so. He's a bit of a buffoon. Are there any words or passages in particular that stick out uncomfortably?
(His diction, if anyone's interested, is kinda sorta modelled on the plays of Schnitzler and Wedekind.)

Wasauchimmer - not sure about that. Maybe "Ach was!"?

I went for a solid »Grmpf.«

wiederbegegnen - "wieder begegnen"

Both spellings are valid.

Schachtel - "Schatulle". Might even be a small "Truhe" (made of wood, with a lock). A "Schachtel" is a cardboard box.

I have decided to make Renard's prison a »Kästchen«, mostly because I consider this the closest equivalent to »[little wooden] box«. »Schatulle« fits neatly as well, and I really like its sound.

Your feedback continues to be most valuable, hnau. Thank you.

[jda]

Hi, guys! I'd like to know if there is a project to translate the comic to Spanish (Latin American would be great); I can join as a translator/proof reader.
Also, I got the feeling that the translation efforts up to date have been very isolated ones.
I propose we can work to promote the use (or creation) of common tools that would help and feed any other translation/correction project. The simplest would be to work on a repository (a master "data base") of GunnerKrigg court:
Chapters, panels, text on each panel, words non-translatables, etc... so it would work like a template for any one trying to work on it, and (alas!) also to be full-text searchable.

Kind of ...


(a very fast draft I made, just something to explain myself)

EDIT: Seems like the guys on "Searchable database of comic?"  thread have already advanced a lot. I'm waiting for a response about if someone have already transcribed this...

[hnau]

[70]
Und zu guter Letzt*:* Sie, junge Dame, was haben Sie für uns? - needs a :

Mein Versuch behandelt das Wachstum von Eiweißkristallen im schwerelosen Raum! - "... in der Schwerelosigkeit"

Ich verstehe... und wie lautet Ihr Vorschlag zur Durchführung dieses Versuchs? - "... und wie genau möchten Sie dieses Experiment durchführen?"

I'm still wrestling with those antigrav units. For the teacher's question, I'm leaning towards a more scientific term, i.e. "Gravitationsfeld-Generator".

(to be continued)

[KartoffelnMcNugget]

I can help with the Spanish traslation, but it would be in Spanish Spanish.

[hnau]

[still 70]
Und zu guter Letzt: Sie, junge Dame, was haben Sie für uns? - if you want to include the name, you might say: "Und zu guter Letzt: die junge Donlan. Was haben Sie für uns?"

[hnau]

Feb 11, 2014 19:14:28 GMT @korba said:

Wasauchimmer - not sure about that. Maybe "Ach was!"?

I went for a solid »Grmpf.«

I think grmpf is more submissive (like swallowing an angry retort), not dismissive.

Your feedback continues to be most valuable, hnau. Thank you.

You're welcome.

[Deleted]

Feb 11, 2014 21:14:16 GMT hnau said:

Und zu guter Letzt*:* Sie, junge Dame, was haben Sie für uns? - needs a :

Hm, I like the idea, but I'd rather put the colon somewhere else: »Und zu guter Letzt Sie, junge Dame: was haben Sie für uns?« Edit: The version you posted while I was busy sorting out quote tags is superior and don't mind if I use that!

Mein Versuch behandelt das Wachstum von Eiweißkristallen im schwerelosen Raum! - "... in der Schwerelosigkeit"

All right. I'm down with that

get it

down

because there is no such thing in zero gravity and ugh I'm terrible at this improvised joke thing so yeah I changed that next card!

Ich verstehe... und wie lautet Ihr Vorschlag zur Durchführung dieses Versuchs? - "... und wie genau möchten Sie dieses Experiment durchführen?"

»...und wie gedenken Sie dieses Experiment durchzuführen?« — stressing the implication that Kat's describing a thought experiment, or something she couldn't possibly have the resources to pull off. (Of course, Kat happily ignores that notion.) What do you think?

I'm still wrestling with those antigrav units. For the teacher's question, I'm leaning towards a more scientific term, i.e. "Gravitationsfeld-Generator".

Since Schwerefeld is apparently good enough for the TU München, I'm going to toss in my executive veto on the grounds of there being enough wormlike words coming up ahead.

Zimmy now says »Was soll's« instead of »Grmpf.«

The changes will be applied shortly. Thank you!

[hnau]

Feb 11, 2014 21:51:24 GMT @korba said:

Feb 11, 2014 21:14:16 GMT hnau said:

Und zu guter Letzt*:* Sie, junge Dame, was haben Sie für uns? - needs a :

Hm, I like the idea, but I'd rather put the colon somewhere else: »Und zu guter Letzt Sie, junge Dame: was haben Sie für uns?« Edit: The version you posted while I was busy sorting out quote tags is superior and don't mind if I use that!

Mein Versuch behandelt das Wachstum von Eiweißkristallen im schwerelosen Raum! - "... in der Schwerelosigkeit"

All right. I'm down with that

get it

down

because there is no such thing in zero gravity and ugh I'm terrible at this improvised joke thing so yeah I changed that next card!

graaaa....

Ich verstehe... und wie lautet Ihr Vorschlag zur Durchführung dieses Versuchs? - "... und wie genau möchten Sie dieses Experiment durchführen?"

»...und wie gedenken Sie dieses Experiment durchzuführen?« — stressing the implication that Kat's describing a thought experiment, or something she couldn't possibly have the resources to pull off. (Of course, Kat happily ignores that notion.) What do you think?

That's perfect.

I'm still wrestling with those antigrav units. For the teacher's question, I'm leaning towards a more scientific term, i.e. "Gravitationsfeld-Generator".

Since Schwerefeld is apparently good enough for the TU München, I'm going to toss in my executive veto on the grounds of there being enough wormlike words coming up ahead.

I might have watched too much Star Trek. The particle of the day...

EDIT: Ironically, "Gravitationsfeld" is used twice as much as "Schwerefeld", according to Google.

[spritznar]

Feb 11, 2014 20:06:05 GMT jda said:

I propose we can work to promote the use (or creation) of common tools that would help and feed any other translation/correction project. The simplest would be to work on a repository (a master "data base") of GunnerKrigg court:
Chapters, panels, text on each panel, words non-translatables, etc... so it would work like a template for any one trying to work on it, and (alas!) also to be full-text searchable.

also, a database like this could be a way for those of us who utterly fail at secondary languages to contribute to translation efforts... (not sure if i'll have much time to help though)

if a database were to be made, would it only be of the main text or would it include signs etc from the background scenery? (someone previously mentioned translating basil's welcome mat and it got me wondering)

[Deleted]

I proudly present Chapter Six, sponsored by Mon Cheri and powered by morning coffee. I think it turned out well.

[hnau]

[72]
[Book: FOLGENREICHE DINGE] [so z.B. Chemie] - "wie z.B. Chemie" ("so" is a bit archaic)

[73]
D' bist - not sure about that apostrophe. I'd use only "Bist ...". But I'm not an expert regarding this kind of slang. I suppose you've heard "D'" somewhere?

[74]
Ich treff dich und Zinken - or "den Zinken"? Somehow, "Zinken" as a nickname seems to work better with an article.

[80]
Er ahnte nicht, dass ich jeden beliebigen Körper - as Eglamore is called a fool, you might make this slightly insulting, too: "Er hat(te) keine Ahnung. Ich kann jeden..." or even "Der hat doch keine Ahnung! Ich kann jeden..."

[81]
gypsy friend - "Streuner-Freundin"? "Schmuddel-Freundin"?

[82]
Hände weg! - I'd say "Finger weg!", but that might be a personal preference.

[83]
Es ist nicht gefährlich, ihr Pansen! - "Pansen" is ... highly innovative (like Zimmy's personality). A more common insult would be "Idioten".

während ich mir ausdenke, was ich mit dir machen soll - "während ich mir überlege, was ich mit dir mache/anstelle" Here, "anstellen" means just doing, but with a (hopefully) playful hint of mischief.

[84]
"Amor entfesselt"?

[hnau]

Feb 12, 2014 12:08:49 GMT hnau said:

[82]
Hände weg! - I'd say "Finger weg!", but that might be a personal preference.

Or, a bit stronger: "Flossen weg!" or "Pfoten weg!" (said the stuffed animal)

[86]
man findet nicht jeden Tag heraus, dass dein Sportlehrer - "dass sein Sportlehrer" or "du findest"

[nightwind]

Feb 12, 2014 12:08:49 GMT hnau said:

[81]
gypsy friend - "Streuner-Freundin"? "Schmuddel-Freundin"?

I think Reynardine is really referring to Kat's ethnical background with that one so it would be "Zigeuner-Freundin". Yes that has a touch of racism nowadays, but that's not necessarily the intention.

[hnau]

[88]
Ich hab das ganze Jahr darauf gewartet, dass sie blühen! - "... dass sie reif werden." (Your translation says: "I've been waiting all year for cherry blossom." "To flower" seems to have a broader meaning in English.)

Sollte man die vor dem Essen nicht lieber putzen? - "... waschen". "Putzen" tends to imply more work, e.g. cutting off foul parts, sorting out moldy berries, etc.

[94]
ich sei verletzt worden - "dass ich mich verletzt hatte". "Sei" implies hearsay, Annie has personal knowledge.

Man sagte mir, er arbeite nicht mehr dort und man wüsste auch nicht, ... - correct, Annie knows from hearsay.

wie man ihn erreichen könnte - "könne"

[96]
(EDIT) "O Gott, (bitte) lass mich sterben!", or "... lass mich im Erdboden versinken!"


Finally an idea for Basil's doormat [27]: "Trautes Heim, Chaos mein".

[Deleted]

Feb 12, 2014 12:08:49 GMT hnau said:

[Book: FOLGENREICHE DINGE] [so z.B. Chemie] - "wie z.B. Chemie" ("so" is a bit archaic)

Really? I hear »so zum Beispiel« all the time, in the sense of »for instance«, but rarely come across »wie zum Beispiel« outside of writing.

D' bist - not sure about that apostrophe. I'd use only "Bist ...". But I'm not an expert regarding this kind of slang. I suppose you've heard "D'" somewhere?

Zimmy now says »Du bis'«.

Ich treff dich und Zinken - or "den Zinken"? Somehow, "Zinken" as a nickname seems to work better with an article.

It works better without the article, I think.

Er ahnte nicht, dass ich jeden beliebigen Körper - as Eglamore is called a fool, you might make this slightly insulting, too: "Er hat(te) keine Ahnung. Ich kann jeden..." or even "Der hat doch keine Ahnung! Ich kann jeden..."

Renard's line now starts with »Er hatte keine Ahnung, dass ich...«

gypsy friend - "Streuner-Freundin"? "Schmuddel-Freundin"?

I think I'll just omit that one word. I will not use »Zigeuner« full stop, but replacing it with more or less pejorative attributes also seems unfortunate to me.

Es ist nicht gefährlich, ihr Pansen! - "Pansen" is ... highly innovative (like Zimmy's personality). A more common insult would be "Idioten".

If it fits Zimmy, then »Pansen« is a keeper. It's actually reasonably common.

während ich mir ausdenke, was ich mit dir machen soll - "während ich mir überlege, was ich mit dir mache/anstelle" Here, "anstellen" means just doing, but with a (hopefully) playful hint of mischief.

»Überlege« definitely does the job best. I think I'll go with »was ich mit dir anstellen soll« in the sub-clause.

"Amor entfesselt"?

I'm rather fond of my stupid pun, I'll admit as much.

"Pfoten weg!" (said the stuffed animal)

Tempting. Edit: I have been tempted to include this.

man findet nicht jeden Tag heraus, dass dein Sportlehrer - "dass sein Sportlehrer" or "du findest"

I actually remember changing that sentence from the former version to the latter. I blame DocumentsToGo on this one. Now it's »...du findest auch nicht jeden Tag heraus, dass dein Sportlehrer...«

Ich hab das ganze Jahr darauf gewartet, dass sie blühen! - "... dass sie reif werden." (Your translation says: "I've been waiting all year for cherry blossom." "To flower" seems to have a broader meaning in English.)

I thought Kat had actually meant »I've been waiting all year for these to blossom [and therefore, bear fruit soon].« Nevertheless, »reif werden« probably makes more sense here.

Sollte man die vor dem Essen nicht lieber putzen? - "... waschen". "Putzen" tends to imply more work, e.g. cutting off foul parts, sorting out moldy berries, etc.

This line has been changed to »Sollte man die nicht vor dem Essen lieber abwaschen?«.

ich sei verletzt worden - "dass ich mich verletzt hatte". "Sei" implies hearsay, Annie has personal knowledge.

The first conjunctive doesn't really imply hearsay as much as your suggestion stresses that the reported event is a known fact. I'll consider it, though. Edit: I opted for neither and employed a shorter noun phrase with a stronger verb.

wie man ihn erreichen könnte - "könne"

The irrealis is correctly used to express both Annie's doubt and the reported impossibility of reaching Anthony.

(EDIT) "O Gott, (bitte) lass mich sterben!", or "... lass mich im Erdboden versinken!"

I'm not sold on these two. I've considered the latter myself, but found it unconvincing.

Finally an idea for Basil's doormat [27]: "Trautes Heim, Chaos mein".

That's quite good!

Thank you.

[Daedalus]

Feb 11, 2014 20:06:05 GMT jda said:

Hi, guys! I'd like to know if there is a project to translate the comic to Spanish (Latin American would be great); I can join as a translator/proof reader.

Feb 11, 2014 21:20:59 GMT KartoffelnMcNugget said:

I can help with the Spanish traslation, but it would be in Spanish Spanish.

That would be awesome. Let me get back to you ASAP...

[Deleted]

The Seventh Seal has been opened. No Beasts of the Revelation were harmed during the making of this Word document.