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Post by kukapetal on Nov 14, 2013 2:23:33 GMT
[actually Robots don't have a gender, though Robby does act like a Guy. And do you forget? Shadow sounds like a mix of Annie and Kat, Shadow sounds like a Girl So Robby is a Guy and Shadow is a Girl so they're straight not queer. I thought Tom said Shadow 2 was a boy. |
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Post by Max on Nov 14, 2013 2:26:26 GMT
I thought Tom said Shadow 2 was a boy. I'm pretty sure he did |
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Post by TBeholder on Nov 14, 2013 2:31:54 GMT
Even this is unnecessary. "Two characters appear on the same page, therefore-ship!" is enough.  Same page? "These two characters appeared in the same cartoon! It's clearly a sign that the author is planning something between them!" The difference here is between "possibly" and "pretty much guaranteed". If I had I good friend who had fallen asleep while I was in a coma for several days I'd probably be happy to see her too... ...and if you mentioned it in a blog visited by shippers, you could just hear something grinding down the launch and splashing into the water. Also Annie is really good at picking up social cues. Annie picks up social cues, yes. She keeps them in a corner until dried, then waits for an artistic mood and practices pyrography.  |
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Post by SerenaJo on Nov 14, 2013 2:33:44 GMT
Oh and I can't see Tom giving his readers a canon queer relationship only to go the "evil lesbian" route or anything like it (Paz being used by the court, etc) How could Paz have known Annie was behind her anyway? You mean a second canon queer relationship. Zimmy isn't evil, she's just crazy. Haha, third even (shadow and robot). Yes, you're right that's what I mean. Edit: ooh geez and like four other people responded more quickly than I could haha |
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Post by hoskins88 on Nov 14, 2013 2:38:00 GMT
Are we counting Robot and Shadow 2? Because if so, it's the third actually Robots don't have a gender, though Robby does act like a Guy. And do you forget? Shadow sounds like a mix of Annie and Kat, Shadow sounds like a Girl So Robby is a Guy and Shadow is a Girl so they're straight not queer. No, Tom has stated the Shadow is a guy and Robot identifies as a guy. That said when one person does not even have the equipment I don't think you can call it Straight....Maybe Queer, the original meaning. |
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Post by TBeholder on Nov 14, 2013 2:48:37 GMT
Then we have a question: is Seraph model supposed to identify as male? Especially given the context of Jeanne and Kat-as-an-angel...
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Post by kukapetal on Nov 14, 2013 2:50:24 GMT
Then we have a question: is Seraph model supposed to identify as male? Especially given the context of Jeanne and Kat-as-an-angel... It seemed like it was a stand-in for Diego in that scripted fight scene, so it identifying as male makes sense. |
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Post by elemenofy on Nov 14, 2013 3:33:29 GMT
Just looked back at the archives and realized how the comic seems to have set up all of this right from the beginning.
Chapter 1: Shadow and the Robot
- introduces Annie (main character)
- Introduces Shadow + Robot (central pair)
Chapter 2: Schoolyard Myths
- introduces Kat (main supporting character)
- introduces Annie+Kat (central pair)
Chapter 3: Reynardine
- introduces Reynardine (other main supporting character / mystery-point )
Chapter 4: Not Very Scary
- introduces Paz (NOW important supporting character... at the time of introduction, odd one-off background character)
Chapter 5: Two Strange Girls
- introduces Zimmy+Gamma (central pair / mystery-point)
Within the first five chapters, we get Robot+Shadow, Annie - Kat - Paz, Reynardine, and Zimmy+Gamma.
Interesting to look back and see how the comic uses as little time as possible to introduce all of these characters. Until just a few chapters ago, all of them had become central characters of note, except for Paz. Why introduce the new character of Paz so early, when (if the comic just needed a someone random to be scared) it could just use Winsbury? Perhaps b/c Paz was planned to be a central character, even as far back as the opening chapters.
And what's Paz's introduction followed by? Zimmy+Gamma.
For me, it makes a strong case that there is some sort of (not necessarily love) triangle between the three girls. Their relationship, whatever it is, looks like it was planned to be part of the end-game.
It also speaks to the story's larger themes of not just Ether vs. Science, but also the relationship between Ether - Science - Nature. So often folks read Annie as a Forest parallel, while Kat is the Court. Instead, it feels more like
Paz : Animal Life (unique ability to communicate with / read animals) ::
Kat : Robots (unique ability to "read' robots)
Annie: Etheric Beings (unique ability to communicate with / read ghosts-gods-spirits)
Funnily enough, the only ability missing from the triangle is communication with people!
Whatever happens, this chapter (piggybacking on Catalyst) should bring the "meaning" / consequences of these gals' relationships are closer to the surface.
It's only been 11 pages... should be about half-way through the chapter. Can't wait to see what happens next!
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Post by SerenaJo on Nov 14, 2013 4:13:37 GMT
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Post by SilverbackRon on Nov 14, 2013 4:40:39 GMT
I love these past three pages. From the quick sweet kiss by Paz, to the peck from Kat... so cute! It was quite unexpected (to me at least) to see it suddenly turn into serious makeouts, but very realistic. I remember being 14 ( oh so long ago!) and I know I did my share of kissing! I am very worried about Annie's reaction. I can see she would want to back out discreetly, but running? Worrisome. On Zimmyzim's list of probably outcomes, I am hoping for option 4. And that cluster of robots gathering to watch is just plain creepy. Kat, shoo them away! |
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Post by nightwind on Nov 14, 2013 5:01:38 GMT
Distracting kiss is distracting. Curious robots are curious. I wonder if this will become part of Katolicism scripture? "And lo, the angel set forth to create, but the voltage was too high, lightning stroke and smoke filled the workshop. And there was much coughing and the angel did show the sad face. And the angel's mate came to her and said: 'You don't need to impress me. I am already impressed.' Then they kissed, and the angel saw it was good." I think we will see what's up with Annie the next page. I'm expecting a lot of surprise and a little (or a little more) jealousy. Possibilities as to why: 1. "Now Kat has a loved one. Why can't I?" 2. She isn't the most important person for Kat anymore. 3. If she had an interest in becoming Kat's loved one she didn't show it --> Mask-Annie in full effect. Now Paz beat her to it. That should sting. But like others here on the thread I hope it isn't that. I smell enough drama on the horizon without a superfluous love triangle. |
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Post by Señor Goose on Nov 14, 2013 5:18:33 GMT
Oh god, what if in the next page Paz just turns into a bird and flies away?
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Post by SilverbackRon on Nov 14, 2013 5:22:20 GMT
Distracting kiss is distracting. Curious robots are curious. I wonder if this will become part of Katolicism scripture? "And lo, the angel set forth to create, but the voltage was too high, lightning stroke and smoke filled the workshop. And there was much coughing and the angel did show the sad face. And the angel's mate came to her and said: 'You don't need to impress me. I am already impressed.' Then they kissed, and the angel saw it was good." And there was much rejoicing! I really like this! I mean, clearly from the beginning, Tom has set up the storyline around the Divide between Court and Forest, so that is always going to be the main focus. But your analysis of the three girls brings some truly interesting thoughts to mind. Let's assume that after a chapter of hurt feelings, Annie and Kat realize they are truly BFFs and life goes on. Only now Paz is part of the circle of friends. And she gets interested in hearing about the forest creatures. Her animal loving nature is so strong... what could happen? Ask Annie for permission to join on a visit? Sneak over to see what the hubbub is about? The forest creatures would LOVE Paz for her communications skills... except for the Shadow People. Oh No! Paz kidnapped/in danger! Kat to the rescue? Annie to the rescue? Ys? (I don't think so!) Hilarity and Mayhem ensues. |
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Post by The Anarch on Nov 14, 2013 5:32:13 GMT
Oh god, what if in the next page Paz just turns into a bird and flies away? nuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu |
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Post by maxptc on Nov 14, 2013 6:13:15 GMT
Then we have a question: is Seraph model supposed to identify as male? Especially given the context of Jeanne and Kat-as-an-angel... I'm not convince those robots all identify as male. I'm not entirely sure how robot gender works anyways. |
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Post by imaginaryfriend on Nov 14, 2013 6:19:28 GMT
Curious robots are curious. Eyewitness models are recording. |
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Post by Mezzaphor on Nov 14, 2013 6:48:13 GMT
Funnily enough, the only ability missing from the triangle is communication with people! Heh. All three of them are outsiders. Paz, by virtue of English being her second language. Kat, ostracized because she was the teacher's kid and so much smarter than her classmates. And Annie, more comfortable around etheric beings than around humans. |
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Post by lordofpotatoes on Nov 14, 2013 7:26:50 GMT
Oh god, what if in the next page Paz just turns into a bird and flies away? Bonus page with a nightmare like this. |
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Post by snipertom on Nov 14, 2013 7:52:21 GMT
Just looked back at the archives and realized how the comic seems to have set up all of this right from the beginning. Chapter 1: Shadow and the Robot - introduces Annie (main character) - Introduces Shadow + Robot (central pair) Chapter 2: Schoolyard Myths - introduces Kat (main supporting character) - introduces Annie+Kat (central pair) Chapter 3: Reynardine - introduces Reynardine (other main supporting character / mystery-point ) Chapter 4: Not Very Scary - introduces Paz (NOW important supporting character... at the time of introduction, odd one-off background character) Chapter 5: Two Strange Girls - introduces Zimmy+Gamma (central pair / mystery-point) Within the first five chapters, we get Robot+Shadow, Annie - Kat - Paz, Reynardine, and Zimmy+Gamma. Interesting to look back and see how the comic uses as little time as possible to introduce all of these characters. Until just a few chapters ago, all of them had become central characters of note, except for Paz. Why introduce the new character of Paz so early, when (if the comic just needed a someone random to be scared) it could just use Winsbury? Perhaps b/c Paz was planned to be a central character, even as far back as the opening chapters. And what's Paz's introduction followed by? Zimmy+Gamma. For me, it makes a strong case that there is some sort of (not necessarily love) triangle between the three girls. Their relationship, whatever it is, looks like it was planned to be part of the end-game. It also speaks to the story's larger themes of not just Ether vs. Science, but also the relationship between Ether - Science - Nature. So often folks read Annie as a Forest parallel, while Kat is the Court. Instead, it feels more like Paz : Animal Life (unique ability to communicate with / read animals) :: Kat : Robots (unique ability to "read' robots) Annie: Etheric Beings (unique ability to communicate with / read ghosts-gods-spirits) Funnily enough, the only ability missing from the triangle is communication with people! Whatever happens, this chapter (piggybacking on Catalyst) should bring the "meaning" / consequences of these gals' relationships are closer to the surface. It's only been 11 pages... should be about half-way through the chapter. Can't wait to see what happens next! I guess all the 'communication with people' are around in the comic being mainstream- Winsbury+Janet, Margo+John etc. |
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Post by Nnelg on Nov 14, 2013 8:03:49 GMT
We taking bets on how Annie reacts to this? Okay. Thus far, I can list at least 6 alternatives (please extend): 1. Annie is her "subtle" self and just tries to vanish "smoothly" to give them time together. Seems reasonable in the light of last time Kat had a crush on someone of her age. 2. Annie has grown into one mischievous teenager and goes to get Renard to celebrate/taunt. 3. Annie is suddenly upset about Kat not having told about her new relationship. This relatively likely option would probably have the most short-living consequences as it would just be solved with a laughter in a page soon to come. 4. Annie is "jealous" of Kat in the "best-friends" manner, running away as she suddenly feels she is no longer the closest person to Kat that she used to be as the best friend, because now Kat is dating someone, and that's even a girl so may feel like taking the best friend place as well. 5. Annie is secretly in love with Kat and jealous. In light of the most recent events this no longer seems very likely, but she has a habit of wearing a mask, so this is at least a possibility. I really hope this is not true. A teenage love triangle drama just is not what I want to read about. Ugh, maybe it could have some interesting side effects in the main story line, I guess, but certainly am not enthusiastic about it. 6. Annie is homophobic and runs in disgust. I think this is very much an outside chance unlikely to occur, but had to list it as it could happen. You have forgotten another option: Annie is retreating out of shock. The forum seems to have concluded from this page that Annie at least suspected Kat's relationship, but that isn't necessarily the case. If she was in fact oblivious up until now, such a sudden revelation would certainly incite a state of panic. |
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Post by Mezzaphor on Nov 14, 2013 9:06:06 GMT
The forum seems to have concluded from this page that Annie at least suspected Kat's relationship, but that isn't necessarily the case. If she was in fact oblivious up until now, such a sudden revelation would certainly incite a state of panic. "Whaaaaaaaaaa? She and Paz are actually dating? I was just joking! RETREAT RETREAT" |
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Post by zbeeblebrox on Nov 14, 2013 9:09:42 GMT
TWIST: Paz was also going out with Annie on the side.
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Post by zimmyzims on Nov 14, 2013 9:27:25 GMT
You forgot: (7) Annie sees building with smoke pouring out of windows and Kat heroically giving mouth-to-mouth to Paz. Thinking quickly, she runs away to summon emergency services, forgetting in the heat of the moment that she can do that faster and easier with her blinker stone. EDIT: Wow, about 20 people posted in the time it took me to post it. Whoops. Thank you for responding to my call for other options. Would you also like to take the responsibilities of running the book for this event? |
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Post by zimmyzims on Nov 14, 2013 9:33:15 GMT
Okay. Thus far, I can list at least 6 alternatives (please extend): 1. Annie is her "subtle" self and just tries to vanish "smoothly" to give them time together. Seems reasonable in the light of last time Kat had a crush on someone of her age. 2. Annie has grown into one mischievous teenager and goes to get Renard to celebrate/taunt. 3. Annie is suddenly upset about Kat not having told about her new relationship. This relatively likely option would probably have the most short-living consequences as it would just be solved with a laughter in a page soon to come. 4. Annie is "jealous" of Kat in the "best-friends" manner, running away as she suddenly feels she is no longer the closest person to Kat that she used to be as the best friend, because now Kat is dating someone, and that's even a girl so may feel like taking the best friend place as well. 5. Annie is secretly in love with Kat and jealous. In light of the most recent events this no longer seems very likely, but she has a habit of wearing a mask, so this is at least a possibility. I really hope this is not true. A teenage love triangle drama just is not what I want to read about. Ugh, maybe it could have some interesting side effects in the main story line, I guess, but certainly am not enthusiastic about it. 6. Annie is homophobic and runs in disgust. I think this is very much an outside chance unlikely to occur, but had to list it as it could happen. You have forgotten another option: Annie is retreating out of shock. The forum seems to have concluded from this page that Annie at least suspected Kat's relationship, but that isn't necessarily the case. If she was in fact oblivious up until now, such a sudden revelation would certainly incite a state of panic. The last 4 options are basically "Annie retreats out of shock" with reasons why she would be shocked. Annie's unawareness of Kat's and Paz's relationship is at least to some extent supposed in each of these. You can work them out with her being aware on some level, but not completely. And quite many in this forum have chosen amongst options 3-6. |
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Post by zimmyzims on Nov 14, 2013 9:36:32 GMT
TWIST: Paz was also going out with Annie on the side. This is a genuinely new bet. No. 8: Annie is shocked to see Paz cheat her. I find it very unlikely, though, that Tom would surprise us with a story line that has been developed completely behind the scenes, without any hints to its existence at any point in the comic. But okay, it is possible and definitely is not same with any of the aforementioned. |
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Post by zimmyzims on Nov 14, 2013 10:05:30 GMT
Oh, this discussion again: Are we counting Robot and Shadow 2? Because if so, it's the third actually Robots don't have a gender, though Robby does act like a Guy. And do you forget? Shadow sounds like a mix of Annie and Kat, Shadow sounds like a Girl So Robby is a Guy and Shadow is a Girl so they're straight not queer. I went to this battle about their sex and gender before, like chapters ago, arguing that despite all gender stuff they are unable to represent any sex as they do not belong to sexually reproducing species, i.e. there is really no such thing as male or female shadow. So it makes no sense to talk about male or female shadow. However, the overwhelming consensus was that they are guys because Tom has said that they're guys. Unfortunately to me and my great argumentation, authoritative arguments tend to hold when we're asking for purposes of the author about his work. All despite them being intellectually loose. Edit: Hahah!! A quadruple-post (if I got right what you mean??), take that you double-post haters!  |
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Post by Toloc on Nov 14, 2013 12:14:42 GMT
Oh, this discussion again: actually Robots don't have a gender, though Robby does act like a Guy. And do you forget? Shadow sounds like a mix of Annie and Kat, Shadow sounds like a Girl So Robby is a Guy and Shadow is a Girl so they're straight not queer. I went to this battle about their sex and gender before, like chapters ago, arguing that despite all gender stuff they are unable to represent any sex as they do not belong to sexually reproducing species, i.e. there is really no such thing as male or female shadow. So it makes no sense to talk about male or female shadow. However, the overwhelming consensus was that they are guys because Tom has said that they're guys. Unfortunately to me and my great argumentation, authoritative arguments tend to hold when we're asking for purposes of the author about his work. All despite them being intellectually loose. Do we have Word of Tom that the shadow people are sexless? They were Coyote's imitation of humans; do they have "shadow parts"? Would the same rules still apply to Shadow, since he apparently went through quite a transformation when he was cut from the ground. Further, we have very little to go on, but I never had the impression that the Courtbots had any concept of gender for themselves. They are both referred to as "he", but that could be for convenience. Anyway, I wouldn't call them straight either. Had an interesting thought while typing this up: What if shadow wasn't cut from the ground by the tooth, but reverted back to the original shadow people form after coming into contact with a part of his creator that had abandoned his people long ago, leaving them to fade into shadows? Edit: Hahah!! A quadruple-post (if I got right what you mean??), take that you double-post haters! Yeah, I wept a little. |
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Post by sidhekin on Nov 14, 2013 12:39:41 GMT
Whatever Robot and Shadow are, they're not straight. Mineral-etherical romance? You might call it hetero, but it's hardly straight.
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Post by TBeholder on Nov 14, 2013 12:55:58 GMT
Then we have a question: is Seraph model supposed to identify as male? Especially given the context of Jeanne and Kat-as-an-angel... It seemed like it was a stand-in for Diego in that scripted fight scene, so it identifying as male makes sense. Except S1 didn't have a noticeable nose and was a fencer in that script. |
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Post by zimmyzims on Nov 14, 2013 13:01:18 GMT
Oh, this discussion again: I went to this battle about their sex and gender before, like chapters ago, arguing that despite all gender stuff they are unable to represent any sex as they do not belong to sexually reproducing species, i.e. there is really no such thing as male or female shadow. So it makes no sense to talk about male or female shadow. However, the overwhelming consensus was that they are guys because Tom has said that they're guys. Unfortunately to me and my great argumentation, authoritative arguments tend to hold when we're asking for purposes of the author about his work. All despite them being intellectually loose. Do we have Word of Tom that the shadow people are sexless? They were Coyote's imitation of humans; do they have "shadow parts"? Would the same rules still apply to Shadow, since he apparently went through quite a transformation when he was cut from the ground. Further, we have very little to go on, but I never had the impression that the Courtbots had any concept of gender for themselves. They are both referred to as "he", but that could be for convenience. Anyway, I wouldn't call them straight either. Had an interesting thought while typing this up: What if shadow wasn't cut from the ground by the tooth, but reverted back to the original shadow people form after coming into contact with a part of his creator that had abandoned his people long ago, leaving them to fade into shadows? No, I mean, there's no word of Tom on that. There's an opposite word of Tom, i.e. that Shadow2 is a guy. Or so I was convinced back then. It was a point I made, that since shadows and robots do not reproduce sexually, sex is non sense when speaking about them. Of course, in fiction, and particularly in fairy tales, this is not so: just check Disney's fairies. Edit: Hahah!! A quadruple-post (if I got right what you mean??), take that you double-post haters! Yeah, I wept a little. And it resonated sweetly with my laughter. |
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