Information on alchemical symbols used in GC

[melkior]

And we get our first close-up and clear look at Hetty's symbol. Definitely "oil" above a combination symbol of "oil essence" and "phosphorus". It remains to be seen what the significance of those symbols is.

[shiguna]

It almost seems like the symbol for Kat/Diego is a combination of the different marks for lead. This would make sense since one lead is used for the court's protector (Jimmy Jims) and Kat is consistently referred to as an angel, which is a symbol of protection as well. Just a thought.

My first reaction was to claim a zinc/lead marriage but it's easier to see just the lead combo.

alchemicaldiagrams.blogspot.com/2011/10/alchemy-symbols-with-meanings.html is where I found the 7 lead symbols.

[Dvandaemon]

Keep in mind that from what we know about Reynard a possessed doll's alchemical symbol is a combination of the entity and their owner. So half of Hetty's symbol may be of Adam's sister/bloodline.

[melkior]

Jul 15, 2013 16:54:52 GMT Dvandaemon said:

Keep in mind that from what we know about Reynard a possessed doll's alchemical symbol is a combination of the entity and their owner. So half of Hetty's symbol may be of Adam's sister/bloodline.

Actually, when Rey first possessed that body, the symbol was plain Antimony. It only became a combination symbol later.

[snipertom]

I agree that it's a combination symbol- Tom's pretty scrupulous about these things and he leaves practically nothing to chance

[robinredbreast]

(Sorry that this is my first post!)

With regards to Reynardine/Renard's symbol slowly altering over time; could it not be that, with Renard remaining in his wolf form considerably more as time goes by, Annie is simply no longer seeing the doll as just a doll? Without that sense of ownership over an item - the doll is now seen as 'Renard the wolf' rather than 'Antimony's doll' - it could be that her complete ownership of Renard is also mutating and altering?

It's hard to feel ownership of a non-sentient object when that object is now a sentient wolf who spends a lot of time speaking with you and those around you, I imagine!

[melkior]

@robinreadbreast, that's what I speculated elsewhere. Antimony still "owns" Rey but as she allows him more freedom, perhaps the symbol mutates.

[philman]

I dunno, I still think Renard's changing symbol is just an artistic choice, consistent with the way characters are drawn changes sometimes over the course of the comic. It changes backwards and forwards a couple of times within the same chapter even. (Changes, the first time we see the new version of the symbol)

[melkior]

Jul 25, 2013 18:57:02 GMT philman said:

I dunno, I still think Renard's changing symbol is just an artistic choice, consistent with the way characters are drawn changes sometimes over the course of the comic. It changes backwards and forwards a couple of times within the same chapter even. (Changes, the first time we see the new version of the symbol)

It's possible of course. But the changes within a chapter may also be an indication of how much (or little) control Antimony is exerting over Rey's actions. Like I've said, time should tell.

[robotarozum]

Good evening chaps, chapesses, and octopodes.

I recognized a possibly unintended similarity between Hetty's symbol and the symbol for the plane of Risia from Dungeons and Dragons:



In other depictions it is more elongated north and south and thus pronounced as a trident, but the double cross instead of a single is constant. I thought this especially relevant given Hetty turns out to be an ice lobster sort of thing, as Risia is the elemental plane of ice (and thanks to English it is also the Plain of Ice). Of course, a horizontal line is not exactly distinctive, and we could be looking at convergent evolution.

Speaking of evolution, I also thought it interesting that a certain biological group of crabs are called en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heterotremata from the Latin for "different orifices", and how else would you shorten that besides "Hetty"? I mean, "chest-orifice" doesn't exactly roll off the tongue.

[arf]

Interesting, although I suspect D&D drew these symbols from the same sources as Tom. Also, 'Hetty' would just derive from the 'hetero' prefix

[Deleted]

Jul 31, 2013 0:47:44 GMT robotarozum said:

Speaking of evolution, I also thought it interesting that a certain biological group of crabs are called en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heterotremata from the Latin for "different orifices", and how else would you shorten that besides "Hetty"? I mean, "chest-orifice" doesn't exactly roll off the tongue.

There's nothing crabby about this shrimp. That said, I think you got the right idea. Meet Heterocarpus ensifer.

Edit: Welp, I think I just found an even more relevant species (as in, »fits Hetty to a T«), namely Heterocarpus dorsalis.

Shrimp don't usually have three eyes, though. Mystery spotted!

[Ophel]

Jul 26, 2013 17:45:14 GMT melkior said:

Jul 25, 2013 18:57:02 GMT philman said:

I dunno, I still think Renard's changing symbol is just an artistic choice, consistent with the way characters are drawn changes sometimes over the course of the comic. It changes backwards and forwards a couple of times within the same chapter even. (Changes, the first time we see the new version of the symbol)

It's possible of course. But the changes within a chapter may also be an indication of how much (or little) control Antimony is exerting over Rey's actions. Like I've said, time should tell.

It's interesting to me that the symbol looks like the one for Pluto. The only difference is that Rey's symbol has the circle attached to the body, where as Pluto's symbol has the circle free-floating.

It could be just a coincidence, or maybe Tom has a plan for this symbolism thing along that direction.

[Ophel]

Wait, you guys said that the Mercury symbol is for the power Renard has rather than the symbol for Renard himself, right?

What if Renard's sign is/will eventually be that of Pluto? Wouldn't that be interesting?

P.S. Sorry for spamming. Also I like discussing about these things. As Kat once said, "It's so hokey!". (Though I'm not sure if the connotations of what she said is the same as how I feel about the subject)

[melkior]

News Flash! Krill Oil contains Phosphorus!
(Phospholipid refers to a type of fat which contains phosphorus)

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Krill_oil

According to some sites advertising krill oil as a nutritional supplement, krill oil also helps the body to metabolise phosphorus.

So perhaps this is at least part of the explanation for Hetty's combination of symbols. Perhaps those symbols being on the body somehow "locked" her into the body? In other words, perhaps the method of imprisoning Hetty in that doll's body was not to place the owner's symbols on the body, but to place a combination of alchemical symbols representing Hetty's "essence" on the body?

Even if that's true, it doesn't explain how and why Hetty was imprisoned in that doll body.

[thedoomblahsong]

Jul 31, 2013 9:21:48 GMT @korba said:

There's nothing crabby about this shrimp. That said, I think you got the right idea. Meet Heterocarpus ensifer.

Edit: Welp, I think I just found an even more relevant species (as in, »fits Hetty to a T«), namely Heterocarpus dorsalis.

Shrimp don't usually have three eyes, though. Mystery spotted!

Awesome! Did a quick search and found this pic of Heterocarpus gibbosus. Seems a bit Hettyish.

melkior, Krill oil does appear to have a high phospholipid content relative to other kinds of oils, but phospholipids themselves are pretty mundane. In fact, they are the main component of the cell membranes of all living things. I think you're reading too much into it, unless Hetty is some sort of nutrition faerie .

[GK Sierra]

Aug 2, 2013 11:02:31 GMT thedoomblahsong said:

melkior, Krill oil does appear to have a high phospholipid content relative to other kinds of oils, but phospholipids themselves are pretty mundane. In fact, they are the main component of the cell membranes of all living things. I think you're reading too much into it, unless Hetty is some sort of nutrition faerie .

I never thought the words would come out of my mouth, but yes, that might be too far a stretch to make.

[melkior]

I'm wondering if perhaps the reference to phosphorus is somehow connected to the yellow stuff floating around Hetty's hair? I'm pretty sure there's a stuff called "yellow phosphorus" but I don't understand why it would manifest in that way.

And now Hetty is dead there's little chance we'll ever get any answers on this, unless Tom pulls a Deus Ex Machina, which is not generally his style.

[shiguna]

Aug 5, 2013 7:48:10 GMT melkior said:

I'm wondering if perhaps the reference to phosphorus is somehow connected to the yellow stuff floating around Hetty's hair? I'm pretty sure there's a stuff called "yellow phosphorus" but I don't understand why it would manifest in that way.

And now Hetty is dead there's little chance we'll ever get any answers on this, unless Tom pulls a Deus Ex Machina, which is not generally his style.

I think it was in the comments below a comic near the beginning of the chapter that it could be mercury oxide. Found a wiki: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mercury%28II%29_oxide

[Tobu]

I've started a wiki page with the symbols, alchemical and otherwise, featured in the treatises: Gunnerkrigg symbols

[lordofpotatoes]

The symbol the court makes with blinkerstones, also the same symbol that's on t-shirt prints and stuff. It's flashier than normal alchemical symbols, but when I look at it I realize that it's a Caudeceus made out of different symbols, sol/gold and bismuth. But then the symbols with the rest of the caudecus can make that into an antimony symbol and also an angel with open arms and horns. Who carried the caudeceus? Hermes, aka Mercury in Roman mythology. Who was he? A psychopomp. I fear there might be alot to uncover in GC.

Here he is: www.gunnerkrigg.com/?p=155

[GK Sierra]

Dec 11, 2013 22:28:17 GMT lordofpotatoes said:

The symbol the court makes with blinkerstones, also the same symbol that's on t-shirt prints and stuff. It's flashier than normal alchemical symbols, but when I look at it I realize that it's a Caudeceus made out of different symbols, sol/gold and bismuth. But then the symbols with the rest of the caudecus can make that into an antimony symbol and also an angel with open arms and horns. Who carried the caudeceus? Hermes, aka Mercury in Roman mythology. Who was he? A psychopomp. I fear there might be alot to uncover in GC.

Here he is: www.gunnerkrigg.com/?p=155

Excellent find. That is very observant.

I hope this means we are going to delve back into mythology soon. There was the minotaur chapter at the beginning, and of course the background of the various gods, but it would be cool if we got to meet more of Annie's supernatural friends from her time at Good Hope Hospital.

Which reminds me...

Muut has been absent from the comic for some time. Either he knows when he is not welcome, or his return (with plot-altering news) is imminent.

[lordofpotatoes]

Dec 12, 2013 0:04:47 GMT GK Sierra said:

Excellent find. That is very observant.

I hope this means we are going to delve back into mythology soon. There was the minotaur chapter at the beginning, and of course the background of the various gods, but it would be cool if we got to meet more of Annie's supernatural friends from her time at Good Hope Hospital.

Which reminds me...

Muut has been absent from the comic for some time. Either he knows when he is not welcome, or his return (with plot-altering news) is imminent.

It's hard to tell where the story is going, even with clues. Muut will probably be back because of Jeanne soon though, then we might also get some insight into the psychopomp stuff more.

And I forgot, because I don't know how relevant it is, Annie is a fire elemental, Hermes invented fire.

[lordofpotatoes]

So in sweden Christmas is just over, I received the third book from Gunnerkrigg Court and I look at the treatise, and I see... ANOTHER caudeucus.

This one has a different antimony symbol and real wings. But no cane-part unless you count Jeannes sword maybe kinda sorta.
Otherwise it also has Sol/Gold in it, and bismuth too.
It might be missing mercury if you dont count that bismuth combined with the + from antimony underneath it forms a mercury symbol. But there is space in between, so...

I decided to comment on this one since its one of the most obvious caudecuses apart from: gunnerkrigg.com/?p=120

[Daedalus]

Dec 11, 2013 22:28:17 GMT lordofpotatoes said:

The symbol the court makes with blinkerstones, also the same symbol that's on t-shirt prints and stuff. It's flashier than normal alchemical symbols, but when I look at it I realize that it's a Caudeceus made out of different symbols, sol/gold and bismuth. But then the symbols with the rest of the caudecus can make that into an antimony symbol and also an angel with open arms and horns. Who carried the caudeceus? Hermes, aka Mercury in Roman mythology. Who was he? A psychopomp. I fear there might be alot to uncover in GC.

Here he is: www.gunnerkrigg.com/?p=155

I wonder if the Forest's symbol has such meaning as well...or whether it is more free-form as mysticism tends to be.

[zimmyhoo]

Dec 25, 2013 0:16:11 GMT lordofpotatoes said:

So in sweden Christmas is just over, I received the third book from Gunnerkrigg Court and I look at the treatise, and I see... ANOTHER caudeucus.

This one has a different antimony symbol and real wings. But no cane-part unless you count Jeannes sword maybe kinda sorta.
Otherwise it also has Sol/Gold in it, and bismuth too.
It might be missing mercury if you dont count that bismuth combined with the + from antimony underneath it forms a mercury symbol. But there is space in between, so...

I decided to comment on this one since its one of the most obvious caudecuses apart from: gunnerkrigg.com/?p=120

Am I being a slow idiot or does Rey have two symbols on his forehead?  Probably Annie's and also the body snatching one.

[GK Sierra]

They are both for Antimony I believe. Just different forms.

Back when everybody on the forum was frantically looking up symbols, we kept getting different charts. Seems like every alchemist had their own take on it, but they all shared common shapes.

[thshrkpnchr]

Dec 25, 2013 7:06:49 GMT GK Sierra said:

They are both for Antimony I believe. Just different forms.

Back when everybody on the forum was frantically looking up symbols, we kept getting different charts. Seems like every alchemist had their own take on it, but they all shared common shapes.

Tom said the above one is for mercury.

[SilverbackRon]

Dec 25, 2013 7:57:29 GMT thshrkpnchr said:

Dec 25, 2013 7:06:49 GMT GK Sierra said:

They are both for Antimony I believe. Just different forms.

Back when everybody on the forum was frantically looking up symbols, we kept getting different charts. Seems like every alchemist had their own take on it, but they all shared common shapes.

Tom said the above one is for mercury.

Indeed.  Which we have already established is the symbol for the body-snatching powers given to Renard by Coyote.

[lordofpotatoes]

I wonder why the bodysnatching powers Renard has uses the mercury symbol, and also why bismuth represents Ys' lost ear.

Edit: I also just realized that the symbol used for bismuth is also taurus in astrology... Mean anything?