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Post by snipertom on Nov 4, 2013 14:05:13 GMT
by the way the new formatting looks great! much clearer, that's for sure New formatting for what? btw your avatar looks strangely like Kat though I'm sure it is a different comique |
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Post by quinkgirl on Nov 4, 2013 16:45:25 GMT
btw your avatar looks strangely like Kat though I'm sure it is a different comique Oh, that's Knives Chau from Scott Piligrim. I didn't know really like the series, but the art was good. She's my favourite character... Yeah, she does look kinda like Kat. That's weird. |
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Post by louisxiv on Nov 4, 2013 21:14:40 GMT
Hadn’t noticed anything – what are you (not?) seeing. Just in case it is something I’ve done. Nah, just checked with another browser. it's some issue with the latest opera builds, don't worry! I'm planning on making it so that the chapter thingy at the top sticks to the top when you scroll down if you think that might be a good idea? The bootstrap build looks nice! I've never used bootstrap... what's it like? A clingy thingy... Um. I'd really rather replace the chapter links with a version of the Covers/Chapters tag there instead. The chapters links do a job, yes, but are ugly, ugly, ugly even by the standard of the rest of the page. One of the reasons I'm looking at bootstrap is to pretty 'em up a bit or find a better way to do the job. Bootstrap: Does lots of stuff, heavy js use, big as a result, trimming advised by the devs (and I think there is an online build tool for just that purpose). Seems overkill for what I do, but it has a more modern look'n'feel to its basics than the blueprint framework I use currently. Makes a lot of clever stuff easy-ish. Even I can work through the snippet examples… Mostly that is down to good presentation of the examples; a lot of thought has gone into documentation, with worked examples, to the extent that I've found the getbootstrap site a pleasure to read. Is it any good? Seems popular. (The day job's real webdevs have just bootstrapped the main site's front page, which front-ends local government public services, so a fair amount of traffic I guess.) As to the bootstrapped Index page I'm eyeing up a concertina-ing mechanism for ... well I dunno what, but it looks so useful with the page being 1000s of lines long... even though I'd personally rather scroll or jump long text than spend my time opening/closing sections. Or the floating index panel (for chapters perhaps...?), or... |
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Post by snipertom on Nov 6, 2013 9:04:49 GMT
Nah, just checked with another browser. it's some issue with the latest opera builds, don't worry! I'm planning on making it so that the chapter thingy at the top sticks to the top when you scroll down if you think that might be a good idea? The bootstrap build looks nice! I've never used bootstrap... what's it like? A clingy thingy... Um. I'd really rather replace the chapter links with a version of the Covers/Chapters tag there instead. The chapters links do a job, yes, but are ugly, ugly, ugly even by the standard of the rest of the page. One of the reasons I'm looking at bootstrap is to pretty 'em up a bit or find a better way to do the job. Bootstrap: Does lots of stuff, heavy js use, big as a result, trimming advised by the devs (and I think there is an online build tool for just that purpose). Seems overkill for what I do, but it has a more modern look'n'feel to its basics than the blueprint framework I use currently. Makes a lot of clever stuff easy-ish. Even I can work through the snippet examples… Mostly that is down to good presentation of the examples; a lot of thought has gone into documentation, with worked examples, to the extent that I've found the getbootstrap site a pleasure to read. Is it any good? Seems popular. (The day job's real webdevs have just bootstrapped the main site's front page, which front-ends local government public services, so a fair amount of traffic I guess.) As to the bootstrapped Index page I'm eyeing up a concertina-ing mechanism for ... well I dunno what, but it looks so useful with the page being 1000s of lines long... even though I'd personally rather scroll or jump long text than spend my time opening/closing sections. Or the floating index panel (for chapters perhaps...?), or... Concertina-ing based around chapters might be useful? Show only the chapters which actually have that particular tag etc. Also, I'm thinking that much as we have the chapter title pages in the order they should be, we probably need to make it clearer that what we're looking at is from chapter 40 not 41, if that makes sense? I'm not sure if that's what you are meaning? What were you thinking of in terms of the chapter links & cover/chapter tag? |
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Post by snipertom on Nov 6, 2013 9:08:47 GMT
btw your avatar looks strangely like Kat though I'm sure it is a different comique Oh, that's Knives Chau from Scott Piligrim. I didn't know really like the series, but the art was good. She's my favourite character... Yeah, she does look kinda like Kat. That's weird. KNIVES! THE BEST! I only really saw the movie, but I thought KNIVES was definitely the best. |
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Post by louisxiv on Nov 6, 2013 21:19:05 GMT
Concertina-ing based around chapters might be useful? Show only the chapters which actually have that particular tag etc. Also, I'm thinking that much as we have the chapter title pages in the order they should be, we probably need to make it clearer that what we're looking at is from chapter 40 not 41, if that makes sense? I'm not sure if that's what you are meaning? What were you thinking of in terms of the chapter links & cover/chapter tag? For the chapter links [1][2]…[45] I’d like to make them select the whole chapter rather than just jump to the cover page. I could do that by tagging each page with its chapter but it feels intrusive as a standard tag and there goes the one tag selection we give. On the other hand it would make very clear where you are in the story. Looking at the bootstrap stuff I was wondering, as you guessed, whether we could concertina the other chapters, and leave tag selection open in the exposed chapter. An alternative was to make the chapter links do the hide all but covers thing that clicking the standard cover tag does, plus select (highlight) the particular chapter cover chosen. I just haven't thought through what to do with it after that - can we make clicking on a "cover" expand the rest of the chapter. Another bootstrap trick I thought possibly applicable is the floating side menu which also shows where you are scrolled through the page by highlighting the links – they use it in their documentation/example pages and it looks quite good for a dozen or so entries. Given GC is heading towards 50+ chapters, and I’d guess 100 isn’t out of the question, the floating menu would be a floating matrix, if not overwhelmed altogether. Not at all sure it would scale well, and what it would look like on a phone screen…? Though it’d be interesting to do, I also note that I find sites with slide-y bouncy side menus often irritate me enough to turn off js for the site just to kill the Clippy-vibe. And would these things useful to people using the index page? Or would the time be better spend adding the entire dialogue text? “Tread carefully, UI minefields ahead!” |
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Post by GK Sierra on Nov 6, 2013 23:34:59 GMT
100 chapters is a safe bet to make. I wouldn't be surprised if he topped that, even, given another few years of three pages a week.
If I was able to quit my day job to live off a webcomic I would make n+1 chapters and not end the story until I croaked. I don't suspect Tom will do that, but now that GKC has passed the point of breaking even I think he is definitely going to flesh out some more parts of the story to add length.
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Post by quinkgirl on Nov 7, 2013 0:35:26 GMT
100 chapters is a safe bet to make. I wouldn't be surprised if he topped that, even, given another few years of three pages a week. If I was able to quit my day job to live off a webcomic I would make n+1 chapters and not end the story until I croaked. I don't suspect Tom will do that, but now that GKC has passed the point of breaking even I think he is definitely going to flesh out some more parts of the story to add length. I wonder how long GKC will be? It certainly is a lot shorter than the other webcomics I've read at the moment... it only took me a few days to get through all but 4-ish chapters. |
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Post by Daedalus on Nov 7, 2013 0:40:48 GMT
100 chapters is a safe bet to make. I wouldn't be surprised if he topped that, even, given another few years of three pages a week. If I was able to quit my day job to live off a webcomic I would make n+1 chapters and not end the story until I croaked. I don't suspect Tom will do that, but now that GKC has passed the point of breaking even I think he is definitely going to flesh out some more parts of the story to add length. I wonder how long GKC will be? It certainly is a lot shorter than the other webcomics I've read at the moment... it only took me a few days to get through all but 4-ish chapters. I'm wondering whether Girl Genius or Gunnerkrigg will end first. Girl Genius is projected to run about 15 more years, while no one knows for Gunnerkrigg. I also wonder if any of us will still be reading either at that point  |
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Post by quinkgirl on Nov 7, 2013 1:41:49 GMT
I wonder how long GKC will be? It certainly is a lot shorter than the other webcomics I've read at the moment... it only took me a few days to get through all but 4-ish chapters. I'm wondering whether Girl Genius or Gunnerkrigg will end first. Girl Genius is projected to run about 15 more years, while no one knows for Gunnerkrigg. I also wonder if any of us will still be reading either at that point 15 more years!? That's a long time! I might be. Depends on what I do in the future... and how busy I'll be. I probably will, just less periodically. |
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Post by GK Sierra on Nov 7, 2013 2:01:10 GMT
One guess floating around was "until adulthood", but there's hardly any rule that he has to stop there.
I believe that one also tied into the theory that this whole story is being narrated by Annie ex post facto, perhaps to her child/children.
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Post by quinkgirl on Nov 7, 2013 2:03:49 GMT
One guess floating around was "until adulthood", but there's hardly any rule that he has to stop there. I believe that one also tied into the theory that this whole story is being narrated by Annie ex post facto, perhaps to her child/children. ...That would suggest a inevitable shipping. |
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Post by snipertom on Nov 7, 2013 2:11:25 GMT
100 chapters is a safe bet to make. I wouldn't be surprised if he topped that, even, given another few years of three pages a week. If I was able to quit my day job to live off a webcomic I would make n+1 chapters and not end the story until I croaked. I don't suspect Tom will do that, but now that GKC has passed the point of breaking even I think he is definitely going to flesh out some more parts of the story to add length. I wonder how long GKC will be? It certainly is a lot shorter than the other webcomics I've read at the moment... it only took me a few days to get through all but 4-ish chapters. you're reading stuff that's much longer than >1200 pages?! |
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Post by GK Sierra on Nov 7, 2013 2:12:40 GMT
One guess floating around was "until adulthood", but there's hardly any rule that he has to stop there. I believe that one also tied into the theory that this whole story is being narrated by Annie ex post facto, perhaps to her child/children. ...That would suggest a inevitable shipping. Inevitable like KatxPaz. (Although I still think that will end in awkwardness for all involved rather than a serious relationship) It's Chekov's Weakness. Antimony will die if she has children, so that's obviously the best creative/dramatic choice for her to have children. Coyote even said it himself: when, not if. |
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Post by Daedalus on Nov 7, 2013 3:53:14 GMT
...That would suggest a inevitable shipping. Inevitable like KatxPaz. (Although I still think that will end in awkwardness for all involved rather than a serious relationship) It's Chekov's Weakness. Antimony will die if she has children, so that's obviously the best creative/dramatic choice for her to have children. Coyote even said it himself: when, not if. It's remotely possible that some of Coyote's actions and statements may, in retrospect, be foreshadowing the distant future. He is the only character (so far) that could have prescience, even if it's very unlikely. |
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Post by Daedalus on Nov 7, 2013 4:03:52 GMT
I wonder how long GKC will be? It certainly is a lot shorter than the other webcomics I've read at the moment... it only took me a few days to get through all but 4-ish chapters. you're reading stuff that's much longer than >1200 pages?! Surveying the webcomics I read...
Girl Genius is more than twice that length, with comparable art (it's been coming out MWF since 2000). SMBC is 3167 pages as of today, though obviously the art is much, much cruder (published since 2002 with an unpredictable update schedule, but usually 5 or 6 per week). On the other end of the spectrum, there's Sandra and Woo, with only 526 (started 2008). Or Six by Nine, with 112 pages (started in July of 2013) also uploaded in chunks: often 5 or 6 on a day, separated by a week. What else do you all read? |
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Post by quinkgirl on Nov 7, 2013 4:16:46 GMT
I wonder how long GKC will be? It certainly is a lot shorter than the other webcomics I've read at the moment... it only took me a few days to get through all but 4-ish chapters. you're reading stuff that's much longer than >1200 pages?! I think Dr. Mcninja is longer than that? I think I was also reading another one... but I just had a brain fart. Besides, the fanfics I copy onto my ereader usually well exceeds 1200 pages. |
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Post by Daedalus on Nov 7, 2013 4:21:06 GMT
you're reading stuff that's much longer than >1200 pages?! I think Dr. Mcninja is longer than that? I think I was also reading another one... but I just had a brain fart. Besides, the fanfics I copy onto my ereader usually well exceeds 1200 pages. HPMOR is really good, and I'm pretty sure that's around 1200 pages of text as well. |
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Post by Gotolei on Nov 7, 2013 4:42:20 GMT
Archipelago and xkcd are both 1200-something pages. xkcd's art isn't much to speak of, but arch has advanced pretty well. And then of course there's mspa with >8000 pages, the art is crude but maybe the walls of text make up for it?
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Post by Daedalus on Nov 7, 2013 5:13:35 GMT
Archipelago and xkcd are both 1200-something pages. xkcd's art isn't much to speak of, but arch has advanced pretty well. And then of course there's mspa with >8000 pages, the art is crude but maybe the walls of text make up for it? Well, of course. When going for length, nothing beats mspa. And maybe? It's certainly a ridiculous amount of work. |
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Post by louisxiv on Nov 7, 2013 22:49:13 GMT
And there's Misfile, the other comic with an Index, at 2400 pages, running since 2004. |
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Post by quinkgirl on Nov 8, 2013 3:54:38 GMT
Speaking of which... does anyone know how long Homestuck is?
I only know it's been going on for... 3-4yrs?
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Post by snipertom on Nov 8, 2013 9:42:28 GMT
Concertina-ing based around chapters might be useful? Show only the chapters which actually have that particular tag etc. Also, I'm thinking that much as we have the chapter title pages in the order they should be, we probably need to make it clearer that what we're looking at is from chapter 40 not 41, if that makes sense? I'm not sure if that's what you are meaning? What were you thinking of in terms of the chapter links & cover/chapter tag? For the chapter links [1][2]…[45] I’d like to make them select the whole chapter rather than just jump to the cover page. I could do that by tagging each page with its chapter but it feels intrusive as a standard tag and there goes the one tag selection we give. On the other hand it would make very clear where you are in the story. Looking at the bootstrap stuff I was wondering, as you guessed, whether we could concertina the other chapters, and leave tag selection open in the exposed chapter. An alternative was to make the chapter links do the hide all but covers thing that clicking the standard cover tag does, plus select (highlight) the particular chapter cover chosen. I just haven't thought through what to do with it after that - can we make clicking on a "cover" expand the rest of the chapter. Another bootstrap trick I thought possibly applicable is the floating side menu which also shows where you are scrolled through the page by highlighting the links – they use it in their documentation/example pages and it looks quite good for a dozen or so entries. Given GC is heading towards 50+ chapters, and I’d guess 100 isn’t out of the question, the floating menu would be a floating matrix, if not overwhelmed altogether. Not at all sure it would scale well, and what it would look like on a phone screen…? Though it’d be interesting to do, I also note that I find sites with slide-y bouncy side menus often irritate me enough to turn off js for the site just to kill the Clippy-vibe. And would these things useful to people using the index page? Or would the time be better spend adding the entire dialogue text? “Tread carefully, UI minefields ahead!” The floating side menu is quite easy to implement with CSS (it just needs to be position:fixed), but the bigger problem is that it is much longer than a screen height; alternatives would be making it so that you can only some entries (say 1 letter worth) at any one time I guess! In terms of concertina effect, that is very easy to do in jQuery with something analogous to: $('.chaptertitle').on.('click',function(){$(this).find('.chaptercontents').slideDown()}) which is one line in total (basically, on clicking the element with class='chaptertitle' it runs an anonymous function whic finds the element within this with the class='chaptercontents' and makes it visible by sliding it into view.) At the end of the day though I guess you gotta decide what you're more comfortable maintaining! I'm guessing that bootstrap has its own set of function libraries that make it easy to implement? Do we need full text search capability? I'm honestly not sure. I guess the issue there is text copyright but I'm sure someone could ask Tom what he thinks or feels? Also workload. |
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Post by snipertom on Nov 8, 2013 9:43:50 GMT
But we have some users on here! So we can ask them about what features they like/need/want changed?
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Post by Gotolei on Nov 8, 2013 9:52:50 GMT
Haven't tested this much..how well-implemented is the dialog? One thing I like about comics like xkcd is even if you only know a few key words out of the page it'll come up.
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Post by GK Sierra on Nov 8, 2013 9:56:02 GMT
Honestly I could not think of a suggestion. This index is made of awesome and should be stickied. Haven't tested this much..how well-implemented is the dialog? One thing I like about comics like xkcd is even if you only know a few key words out of the page it'll come up. You should take a look, it's pretty sweet. Even if you don't know the tag you're looking for, you can find it with ctrl+f by looking up similar phrases until you find the right one. Saves so much re-reading when Wild Speculation™ is occurring. |
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Post by Gotolei on Nov 8, 2013 10:02:36 GMT
Honestly I could not think of a suggestion. This index is made of awesome and should be stickied. Haven't tested this much..how well-implemented is the dialog? One thing I like about comics like xkcd is even if you only know a few key words out of the page it'll come up. You should take a look, it's pretty sweet. Even if you don't know the tag you're looking for, you can find it with ctrl+f by looking up similar phrases until you find the right one. Saves so much re-reading when Wild Speculation™ is occurring. Oh, I already have it bookmarked ^_^ I just haven't had much reason to use it yet. Sounds cool. Gotta keep it in mind for the wild spec (and all the random debates lately as well) |
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Post by snipertom on Nov 8, 2013 10:04:42 GMT
Updated up to p1273 just now
Also, do external links work for alltags.txt?
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Post by louisxiv on Nov 8, 2013 18:30:44 GMT
Updated up to p1273 just now Ta. And you left the (kiss) tag for me to add – that’s so sweet of you ;) Yes, if they are formatted correctly – I’ve just fixed a couple with missing http heads I managed to leave off. (I'll add the formatting comment from index.txt to the top of alltags.txt/tags.txt) Index page updated – 1273 pages indexed, 373 tags defined |
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Post by snipertom on Nov 8, 2013 18:40:05 GMT
Woah I'd totally forgotten that there was a Kiss tag!! HOW COULD I FORGET?!
I might at some stage start putting in links to the wiki?
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