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Post by GK Sierra on May 22, 2013 16:59:46 GMT
If anything we'll taint them. 4chan has no power here, stripped of their anonymity. But anonimity is good. Better than anal registration, in fact. When you need an honest discussion about things that make the creator uncomfortable, yes. The downside is that everyone gets to insult one another and generally be unhelpful dickwads without any repercussions. Registration forces people to adhere to a standard of acceptable behavior. The people in 4chan have very few standards of acceptable behavior, hence the reason they are on 4chan. |
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Post by Toloc on May 22, 2013 16:59:50 GMT
1. Annie has it and Kat is surprised that she does (cafeteria) 2. Kat takes it from Annie (cafeteria) 3. Kat has it in her hand and Paz sees it 4. Kat leaves it on the desk in front of Bobby So... you assume the most likely course is that after this page Kat returned to Bob and took that letter back? OOhh Yeah, I missed that she left it there. My Bad Then its pretty clear |
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Post by download on May 22, 2013 17:06:17 GMT
As a gay guy, I kind of agree that it's easier to portray lesbians than male homosexuals as a certain type of reader will enjoy the former as fanservice. But, I think that can't be aimed at Tom. Because his story is mostly about women rather than men anyway and yet of his five queer characters two (Shadow and Robot) are male or male identifying and their relationship gets as many big couple moments as the one openly lesbian one (Zimmy and Gamma). And our fifth queer character, Paz, seems so far to be bisexual. So we have 2 male gays, 2 lesbians, 1 bisexual and 28 hetrosexuals (Jack, Annie, Kat, Smitty, Parley, Eglamore, Anja, Donald, Tony, Surma, Brinnie, the headmaster, Diego, Jeannie, the elf, Matt, Margo, John, Bob and his wife, bud and lindsey, willie and janet, reynardine, mort, Alistar and Chang E) by my count with the rest of the character's sexuality unspecified. That seems pretty reflective of reality, really. And would do even if we end up having to move Kat from one category to another. Actually, Robot has his crush on Kat, remember? As a robot it's not clear whether he feels any sort of physical desire, but he does appear to be bi-romantic at least. I've always thought that Annie might be asexual. I just thought she was ridiculous inept. Sure, she's learnt over the years how to do normal social things, but relationship are completely unheard off for her. Just look at how she reacted to Mort. If she was asexual I think she wouldn't have been so reactionary |
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pigeon
New Member
Peck Peck
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Post by pigeon on May 22, 2013 17:10:01 GMT
I really liked the expressions in today's update. I liked the way the flashbacks were integrated as well. I am not really rooting for the story line to go one way or the other. I am just enjoying this arc.
(Super-long time lurker, first time poster)
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Post by GK Sierra on May 22, 2013 17:28:41 GMT
I really liked the expressions in today's update. I liked the way the flashbacks were integrated as well. I am not really rooting for the story line to go one way or the other. I am just enjoying this arc. (Super-long time lurker, first time poster)Herzlich willkommen. You'll pick a side sooner or later, don't worry.  |
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Post by lordofpotatoes on May 22, 2013 17:30:51 GMT
As a gay guy, I kind of agree that it's easier to portray lesbians than male homosexuals as a certain type of reader will enjoy the former as fanservice. But, I think that can't be aimed at Tom. Because his story is mostly about women rather than men anyway and yet of his five queer characters two (Shadow and Robot) are male or male identifying and their relationship gets as many big couple moments as the one openly lesbian one (Zimmy and Gamma). And our fifth queer character, Paz, seems so far to be bisexual. So we have 2 male gays, 2 lesbians, 1 bisexual and 28 hetrosexuals (Jack, Annie, Kat, Smitty, Parley, Eglamore, Anja, Donald, Tony, Surma, Brinnie, the headmaster, Diego, Jeannie, the elf, Matt, Margo, John, Bob and his wife, bud and lindsey, willie and janet, reynardine, mort, Alistar and Chang E) by my count with the rest of the character's sexuality unspecified. That seems pretty reflective of reality, really. And would do even if we end up having to move Kat from one category to another. Actually, Robot has his crush on Kat, remember? As a robot it's not clear whether he feels any sort of physical desire, but he does appear to be bi-romantic at least. I've always thought that Annie might be asexual. Wait, since when did Robot have a crush on Kat? I thought he was starting a cult. |
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Post by snipertom on May 22, 2013 17:39:45 GMT
Actually, Robot has his crush on Kat, remember? As a robot it's not clear whether he feels any sort of physical desire, but he does appear to be bi-romantic at least. I've always thought that Annie might be asexual. I just thought she was ridiculous inept. Sure, she's learnt over the years how to do normal social things, but relationship are completely unheard off for her. Just look at how she reacted to Mort. If she was asexual I think she wouldn't have been so reactionary Agreed. She is distant and awkward because she grew up in a hospital around only her parents and some death supernatural dudes. Plus I'm pretty sure that she sort of had a thing for Jack, even though she was angry/disturbed by him. |
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Post by download on May 22, 2013 17:43:45 GMT
I just thought she was ridiculous inept. Sure, she's learnt over the years how to do normal social things, but relationship are completely unheard off for her. Just look at how she reacted to Mort. If she was asexual I think she wouldn't have been so reactionary Agreed. She is distant and awkward because she grew up in a hospital around only her parents and some death supernatural dudes. Plus I'm pretty sure that she sort of had a thing for Jack, even though she was angry/disturbed by him. Yep, she really sucked at hitting on him, was rather awkward |
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Rymdljus
Full Member
Beautiful songbird
Posts: 207
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Post by Rymdljus on May 22, 2013 19:27:23 GMT
Annie sure has grown quite a bit during the course of this comic, but it's still to early for her to be into romantic relationships, I think.
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Post by hargharg on May 22, 2013 19:56:19 GMT
I really liked the expressions in today's update. I liked the way the flashbacks were integrated as well. I am not really rooting for the story line to go one way or the other. I am just enjoying this arc. (Super-long time lurker, first time poster)Herzlich willkommen. You'll pick a side sooner or later, don't worry. I dunno, there seem to be quite a few "neutral" forumgoers.  And welcome, pigeon! |
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lit
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Post by lit on May 22, 2013 20:11:40 GMT
I just thought she was ridiculous inept. Sure, she's learnt over the years how to do normal social things, but relationship are completely unheard off for her. Just look at how she reacted to Mort. If she was asexual I think she wouldn't have been so reactionary Agreed. She is distant and awkward because she grew up in a hospital around only her parents and some death supernatural dudes. Plus I'm pretty sure that she sort of had a thing for Jack, even though she was angry/disturbed by him. I agree that Annie may be asexual, especially when you consider all of the different types of asexuality and gray-asexuality that exist. There's nothing that's happened that would cause me to rule it out, at least. I am still up in the air as to what her interest in Jack was, exactly. Their interactions seemed somewhat artificial but I'm not sure that behind the awkwardness there was or wasn't a real sexual or romantic interest. (Maybe she's just interested in him as a person and tried to manipulate it into something romantic because she was a little concerned she wasn't feeling romantically towards anyone yet.) I don't think we've seen enough evidence of blatant sexual attraction to make a strong case for the sexualities of many of the younger characters - because they are so young. There has been evidence of romantic attractions, at least. It's true that a lot of the time romantic and sexual orientations line up, but... they don't always. People end up conflating romantic and sexual attraction a lot. Being asexual myself, it feels a bit odd to see people speculating on Kat's and Paz's "sexuality" when there's been no evidence that they want to do more than have special feelings at each other, be emotionally close, and perhaps hold hands. But, like, I get what people mean, I guess. |
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Post by Marnath on May 22, 2013 21:18:40 GMT
Well, there is this. There are plenty of other reasons she could have said that, but on the other hand she might have said it because it's true. Also, she seems to be totally missing the context here and on the next page. Again, there are other potential explanations but one of them is that she just doesn't get what's going on. |
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Post by warrl on May 22, 2013 21:39:40 GMT
TBH, as long as this comic doesn't become another example of having half the characters being bisexual, I'll be happy. I think we're pretty well past the point where that is a danger. The first catch is that in a webcomic there tends to be a pretty small main cast, so even one homo/bisexual is a disproportionate share - and then, particularly with teenagers, *one* homosexual is likely to get involved with *another*, making the proportions even more tilted. The second catch is that if a comic page shows two teenage couples walking down the sidewalk, and one of those two couples happens to have been previously identified as lesbian, certain people will try to write off the entire page (if not the entire comic) as "OMGLESBIANS!" (I suspect the same is true to some extent with gay males.) |
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Post by Nnelg on May 22, 2013 22:43:32 GMT
I stand by my previous statements. This development doesn't make sense at all given what we knew before... But that just means we didn't know enough.  Anyways, so it's back to the drawing board. Currently my top theories are: - Everything is as it seems.
- Paz is trying to "take the blame" for Bobby.
- Conspiracy theory involving Paz and Robot.
- This is actually Kat's anxiety dream.
- Paz is being mean/teasing Kat.
- Coyote is pulling a prank.
- 51-day late April Fools page.
Of course, I really am not sure about any of these... There are still some nagging questions that haven't been answered yet, though... |
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Post by luppus on May 22, 2013 23:17:06 GMT
I'm a new addict to GKC and up to now I was catching up from the archive, so this is the first page I actually had to wait a day for - and already I suffer. Two days until it continues? Way too much time for imagination, speculation and analyzing... And to get it out of my system, I'll just annoy you with my two cents to this page. Whoa. Paz didn't help Bobby get his message sent - it was the other way around. There's some development. Sort of... surprise? Well, not really - it's not like I hadn't considered the possibility; Paz eying the letter, Bobby reacting very cool for someone who sent a love letter and is brushed off, not even trying to argue his case - all a bit strange. But it seemed too... well, obvious on the one hand, unreasonable on the other. I don't know what I expected, but I was pretty sure this wasn't going to be it. OTOH, let's take a look at the chapter's title. Catalyst. Well, have we seen that catalyst yet? There have been quite a few leading to the current situation: - The night in Faraway Morning, specifically the misunderstanding between Kat and Paz - which apparently catalyzed not only Kat questioning the way she was perceived by others (and possibly her own emotions/sexual orientation? Have we seen evidence to that?), but also a change in Paz' emotions concerning Kat. - Kat moving in with Annie in Changes, increasing their proximity and the time they spend together - which catalyzed Paz acknowledging her changed emotions, admitting to herself that she wishes Kat was more than just her classmate (how much more we do not know; we might if we saw the letter, but we might not, depending on whether Paz knows it). - Paz and Bobby writing the letter and Kat visiting them (for, presumably, but likely the first time since Faraway Morning) to find out about it - which catalyzed the open talk I hope results now, about their emotions and relationship. - And, lest we forget, the end of Divine; Gamma's quote "You can't always run from what scares ya" while removing Kat's Headband of Straightness - which seems to have catalyzed some more thinking on Kat's part, given that she has chosen not to replace the headband and switched back from skirts to pants. Unfortunately, these are all from past chapters, and why should this chapter be named after some past event? So maybe we have just seen the beginning of the eponymous catalyst - the discussion between Paz and Kat, leading to... well, what? What might be catalyzed by these events? Kat and Paz hooking up? Kat getting to grips with her own sexuality, whatever way it may be? The fight between Kat and Annie leading to war between the Court and the Forest someone else postulated? Or is it just one big red herring, and the real catalyst was found somewhere in the other storyline about Annie and Smitty in Gillitie? If so, what might it be? Darn, I'm thinking about this waaaay to much... |
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Post by ctso74 on May 22, 2013 23:17:20 GMT
I generally find people on the internet are much more open minded that those you may find in Texas Ah, see, that location is misleading because I live in the uber-liberal capital. Also, I read a lot of news (and the comments after the articles, because I can't resist). So I see some messed up opinions, man. Keep Austin Weird! This was very sweet, but I have a feeling it's about to get unfortunate and awkward. I suppose, like teen romance was in real life. |
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Post by GK Sierra on May 23, 2013 1:18:17 GMT
I'm a new addict to GKC and up to now I was catching up from the archive, so this is the first page I actually had to wait a day for - and already I suffer. Oh, es wird nur schlimmer, glauben Sie mir. Bald. Bald werden Sie wissen. ;D Ah, see, that location is misleading because I live in the uber-liberal capital. Also, I read a lot of news (and the comments after the articles, because I can't resist). So I see some messed up opinions, man. Keep Austin Weird! Austin should just break away from the rest of the state and declare Santa Cruz it's sister city already. Come away with us Austin, you're too normal for your crazy relatives! |
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Post by impish on May 23, 2013 2:23:55 GMT
The timeline in this chapter is seriously confusing. I would guess forest -> talk annie/smitthy/parley -[same time]> kat -> cafeteria but just as much of a case can be made for forest -> cafeteria -> talk annie/smitthy/parley -[same time]> kat Some clarification from Tom would be helpful. The cafeteria scene has to have taken place before this, I believe. Think of the letter, and how it's been passed along: 1. Annie has it and Kat is surprised that she does (cafeteria) 2. Kat takes it from Annie (cafeteria) 3. Kat has it in her hand and Paz sees it 4. Kat leaves it on the desk in front of Bobby If the cafeteria scene takes place after this, then Kat has to get back inside, take the letter, get to the cafeteria to talk to Annie, and somehow lose the letter so that Annie can pull it out, to Kat's surprise. AHHH okay yes good point! I like this theory :3 Also, in the cafeteria Annie says "...and that's why I was late" so it seems even more unlikely that she'd've had time to get the letter between kat and paz talking and meeting kat at the cafeteria, so yeah. I guess that also justifies the part with annie and parley and smitty sitting around chatting being after the cafeteria part! ...and I mean even though I was guessing that Kat's reaction in the cafeteria had to be post-letter, her reaction to Annie asking if she knew who it was from makes very little sense if Kat already knew it was really Paz, no matter what her response is. |
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Post by Nnelg on May 23, 2013 3:05:00 GMT
Wait, since when did Robot have a crush on Kat? I thought he was starting a cult. The cult leader focuses a bit too much on the latter part of "object of adoration", methinks... |
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Post by download on May 23, 2013 3:30:41 GMT
Nnelg, you're denial is astounding |
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Post by freeformline on May 23, 2013 3:38:32 GMT
Welcome to the current readership, luppus! Prepare to have your life ruined in the most perfect way possible! Your health will be substantially better if you try to avoid overanalyzing the interpersonal dynamics of fictional teenage girls, as imagine by an actual adult male.
Yeah... I really have no idea how to feel about this chapter right now, so I am just going to wait until it is over before I pass any judgement. I trust Tom's competent hands and tricksy mind!
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Post by TBeholder on May 23, 2013 3:38:45 GMT
The cult leader focuses a bit too much on the latter part of "object of adoration", methinks... Er... it's not kind of by definition?  |
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unrequited
Junior Member
Tormentor of the Heart, close friend of the Spleen
Posts: 74
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Post by unrequited on May 23, 2013 3:44:53 GMT
Tom is a master ruseman. Just going to leave it at that.
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Post by snipertom on May 23, 2013 4:50:44 GMT
Wait, since when did Robot have a crush on Kat? I thought he was starting a cult. The cult leader focuses a bit too much on the latter part of "object of adoration", methinks... I was under the impression that he was gently chiding Annie for inconveniencing Kat |
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Post by zbeeblebrox on May 23, 2013 5:01:18 GMT
TBH, as long as this comic doesn't become another example of having half the characters being bisexual, I'll be happy. I think we're pretty well past the point where that is a danger. The first catch is that in a webcomic there tends to be a pretty small main cast, so even one homo/bisexual is a disproportionate share - and then, particularly with teenagers, *one* homosexual is likely to get involved with *another*, making the proportions even more tilted. The second catch is that if a comic page shows two teenage couples walking down the sidewalk, and one of those two couples happens to have been previously identified as lesbian, certain people will try to write off the entire page (if not the entire comic) as "OMGLESBIANS!" (I suspect the same is true to some extent with gay males.) I get that impression too. That a lot of criticism webcomic authors get about the over-representation of homosexual characters in their stories is purely due to reader projection. |
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Post by Eversist on May 23, 2013 6:23:43 GMT
That a lot of criticism webcomic authors get about the over-representation of homosexual characters in their stories is purely due to reader projection. While everything warrl says is completely accurate, it doesn't make it not true that there is a disproportionate amount of queers (meaning LBGT) in webcomics. No one said it wasn't okay; again, just an observation, not a complaint. At least from my end. |
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Post by download on May 23, 2013 6:38:19 GMT
All we have are 3 characters (Most think Zimmy and Gamma are something, don't we? Then Paz now, I'll wait for tomorrow for Kat to make 4) who are gay/bi/whatever out of like 30 or 40
Not very disproportionate if you ask me.
It's not even fanservice. If it was we'd have scantily clad character everywhere
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Post by Eversist on May 23, 2013 6:50:17 GMT
I'm not saying specifically in this webcomic. All of my statements have been generalized. And I didn't call it fanservice. I am in no way claiming that Tom is pandering. I feel like you guys are really reading into my statements when I've been pretty blasé about the whole thing. It's like when someone said in the last thread that the comic was slowly-paced and some seemed to take slight offense and took up arms for Tom as if it were an insult, when it was just an (albeit, opinionated) observation. P.S. Yeah, Zimmy and Gamma are definitely something. |
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Post by download on May 23, 2013 7:38:31 GMT
Eh, I'm also responding to comments I saw over on /co/, though none of them will probably read it.
Some of them were claiming it's politically motivated and that Tom only did it so he wouldn't be called a homophobe...
Pretty stupid
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Post by legion on May 23, 2013 7:44:02 GMT
I think part of the problem is really a tendency for the audience (and sometimes, newer interpretations of older works) to project sexuality in general in works that are devoid of it.
The emblematic example is Sherlock Holmes. In the original books by Conan Doyles, Holmes' sexuality was not adressed, at all. It was not hinted at, it was not suggested to be anything, it was not subtly evocated, it was just not there.
But adaptations of Doyles' works almost always ignore this, and instead makes Holmes overtly heterosexual/homosexual.
Another example I've been told about (though haven't witnessed myself) is how the original series of Doctor Who, largely aimed at children, didn't contain but the subtlest hints of sexual tension between the protagonists, whereas the new series is, well, much less subtle.
The problem with this is that it leads to the damaging assumption that a character with no overt sexuality is automatically straight/gay by default (depending on the audience/writer) and leaves no room for characters who might as well just be neither.
I think this is part of why part of the audience may react negatively to another part of the audience suggesting a character is gay; while homophobia may be a component of such a reaction, it is likely also linked to the disconfort of having a character without an overt sexuality automatically assumed to be gay regardless of any evidence.
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