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Post by aline on Jul 19, 2021 7:45:13 GMT
Hmm, Aata has the typical narrative of a dictator in this page. One thing in what he says has me wondering. Why does he perceive the ether as shackles? I did not quite get the feeling that a common human being would be influenced, let alone impeded by it. There's two things I can think of: - Humans can't directly use the ether for their benefit. But then why would one use a slavery analogy? One would rather liken this to breaking a wall or something.
- Humans are in fact slaving to the gods with their beliefs. They don't perceive it as limiting during their life, but come into duty after death. Maybe there's an alternative they seek to unlock. Could be freedom, could be paradise, could be immortality.
I suspect it's similar to narratives like "such and such will be the downfall of society". They are not in any kind of actual shackles and if they could accept the world as it is and open their minds to it, they could accomplish extraordinary things. But they don't want to. They want a tidy world that follows the rules of physics, thank you very much. Jones mentioned about the Court was founded when the humans who took refuge in the Forest "grew tired of etheric tenet". They didn't want magic in their lives.
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Post by aline on Jul 19, 2021 7:14:18 GMT
"We will rid ourselves of the schackles of the unseen world" Looks like they are trying to erase the ether entirely. They do want to redesign the world, and erase all its etheric creatures, good or bad, big or small. They will either stop to exist or lose an essential part of their soul if the Court succeeds. This is horrifying on so many levels.
Does Jones know of this plan?
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Post by aline on Jul 16, 2021 11:03:22 GMT
I have tremendous trouble believing that Coyote can even die. If his tooth was so easily replaced, why not the rest of him? If a body missing a tooth can take a stone and be whole, can a tooth missing a body not do the same? Considering how much trouble he went to in order to experience death, I do believe he died. Now the definition of life is a sketchy thing but if you accept Coyote was an individual capable to think and act independently then he must have been alive, whatever the conditions of his creation. What we see now is like the message Loup sent to Annie, an echo. Coyote replaced a tooth with a stone, yes, but we don't know that the stone gained the same properties as the tooth. It was there for appearances.
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Post by aline on Jul 16, 2021 9:09:46 GMT
Coyote's method of teaching is unsubtle this time. Aata can enter the ether, but he calls it distasteful. It's fickle? Or just using it for "tricks" is distasteful. Pure speculation at this stage, but Anja did say the Court didn't like her etheric computer because nobody could explain how it works. I'd bet Aata is one of those who despises "tricks", magical feats that cannot be analyzed and explained. He will take the powers, but he doesn't have to like it. That might explain the bitterness too.
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Post by aline on Jul 16, 2021 8:24:32 GMT
A Tanuki, perhaps? Rotund and jolly, but sometimes malevolent; likes to masquerade as a human, and in particular as a Buddhist priest (reminiscent of Ysengrimus as a Christian monk); sometimes adorns itself with magical leaves? While that would be very nice, I don't think the Court would take too kindly to someone deceiving them so. Yeah and the way he talks ("I know a few tricks, however distatestful they are") makes me think he wasn't born an etheric creature. He's human. Or he was, initially.
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Post by aline on Jul 16, 2021 7:08:49 GMT
Aata can enter the ether, but he calls it distasteful. "Failed cousin", that should mean a failed god. Perhaps the result of a previous, imperfect attempt to steal etheric powers and achieve godhood.
Someone in the previous thread wondered how old Aata was. If he is what Coyote says he is he might be very old indeed.
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Post by aline on Jul 15, 2021 12:02:51 GMT
Does he interpret this as the court has tricked Annie into trying to steal his power? They did trick her into helping them steal his powers. They're definitely using her for exactly this purpose. I doubt Coyote ever thinks of his own actions as a mere details. Him obfuscating his own role in front of Annie isn't delusion, he knows perfectly well what he did was highly relevant, he's just not saying it. That doesn't change what the Court did of their own volition, mind. Bait only works if someone's hunting. I doubt he'd expect a teenager to thwart the Court all on her own, and he did leave a homicidal angry wolf in charge of the Forest. But even if Annie had been a much more active part of this whole thing, I think Coyote is too appreciative of a nice fun underhanded plot to be angry at her. If loyalty was a condition of his friendship, he would have appreciated Ysengrin's qualities much more and Renard's much less. On the contrary, too much loyalty he probably finds stupid and boring. Whereas a little backstabbing makes life more interesting. Besides, he's the biggest backstabber out there. He is using Annie too.
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Post by aline on Jul 14, 2021 13:48:50 GMT
Coyote blaming the Court for Daniel's death seems... dishonest. I mean he's a trickster god. Of course he's dishonest. But he also tells the truth. Everybody in this sad little plot was trying to trick somebody else and it seems Surma was manipulated as well. She was told to lure Renard because he was a threat to the Court when in reality they wanted to trap him for much less savory reasons.
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Post by aline on Jul 12, 2021 16:13:15 GMT
Discovering how to control and manipulate something does not necessarily lead to actually making changes, it's just part of the process of understanding in science. E.g. synthetic biology is primarily used to better understand the natural world, only a small part of it is about creating new products. In fact, science often discovers that the system is more complicated than previously thought when it tries to manipulate the real world and goes back to the drawing board/introduces strict regulations. True, but inversely a great deal of research also happens because people are trying to do things and need to find out how. The military, for example, has always been a great patron of the sciences and people have discovered all kinds of interesting facts about the world in the process of trying to create new inventive weapons. On a more positive note, the majority of medical research is focused on diseases, disorders and treatments, and even when someone tries to answer a more fundamental question about the human body it's usually with the idea of using it for more specific research later, such as when the research on mRNA landed us COVID vaccines. It didn't happen by accident, there were people who envisioned all the things we could do with that tech and poured the money in, they weren't just invested with curiosity about the workings of RNA. The majority of research funding in all sectors, in fact, comes from private investors, and those don't pay for things because they're generally curious about the universe. They want to sell driving cars and 3D TVs. Even government funded fundamental research usually has some practical goal built in, it's just a more long-term thing, like the dudes in the south of France who have been studying particles for decades. They get funding in the hope it'll land us a fusion reactor one day: cheap, easy and climate-friendly energy that would change the world. No luck so far alas, not all discoveries end up being useful. Reasearch is unpredictable. But the goal is still, most of the time, utilitarian.
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Post by aline on Jul 12, 2021 13:21:09 GMT
Coyote did tell Annie that the Court was "man's endeavour to become God". He also told her that when he arrived to Gillitie Wood, "the humans sought to tame the powerful creatures" leading him to create the ravine and the Annan Waters. I think it more likely that the Court's attempt to steal Coyote's powers is motivated by: a) neutralizing a potential threat and b) studying the ether. I disagree! I think they study the ether specifically to discover how to control and manipulate it, which is functionally equivalent to being a god. I don't believe for one second that everything we just saw is the result of some passive desire to neutralize a threat or to gain an intellectual understanding of magic and nothing more. It's only a minor stop on the way to much bigger plans. I think if given half a chance they will redesign the entire universe and everything inside it.
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Post by aline on Jul 12, 2021 11:47:18 GMT
Coyote did tell Annie that the Court was "man's endeavour to become God". He also told her that when he arrived to Gillitie Wood, "the humans sought to tame the powerful creatures" leading him to create the ravine and the Annan Waters. They've probably been looking for a way to do this for litteral centuries, as soon as Coyote showed up and proved to be the most powerful creature out there. And been checkmated each time. An appropriate way to pass the time, I guess, for the Trickster.
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Post by aline on Jul 9, 2021 8:04:44 GMT
So Coyote is still attached to whatever device the Court has made, so is presumably on a leash somehow, but has stopped time and is seemingly much more free than the Court expected. If he is not too restrained to induce a hilarious catastrophic failure, he's only restrained as long as he is willing to put up with this. For example, he already walks near the source, so he could connect to the "lightning" there, looping the entire process on itself. Agree! But this is his clever plan unfolding and I think he has more in mind than a short circuit.
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Post by aline on Jul 7, 2021 15:36:36 GMT
Incredible all the fun stuff Coyote gets to do even though he's technically dead. This guy knows how to have a good time.
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Post by aline on Jul 5, 2021 9:01:52 GMT
So how much of this is in the plan? So far, I imagine, everything. Coyote knew about the Court's research, so if he predicted Ysengrin would eat him, this development can't have been much of a surprise.
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Post by aline on Jul 5, 2021 8:56:17 GMT
Yes, but some normal behavior isn't evil just because it's not kind, not that it makes it good. Dude. "not kind"? I guess we do have very different moral compasses.
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Post by aline on Jul 5, 2021 8:23:03 GMT
Burning down cities and raping civilians isn't very abnormal behavior for humans. Neither, arguably, are pogroms and genocide. What is your point? That if things have been done before they can't be considered morally wrong? I mean, I don't feel those actions are comparable. Those actions cause intentional direct harm, and the modern Court hasn't been shown to have done those things. They have been shown to spy, consider expelling and exiling cheating students, and leave magic alone or work to manipulate it depending on how safe they feel about the overall situation. Just doesn't seem like genocide or rape to me. That subject matter is a little outside what this comic has ever covered in fact, so forgive me if I don't consider it much when judging the Court. I'm trying to find out how "normal behavior for humans" can equate "not evil actually". That's not an argument that works. Lots of normal human behaviors are extremely evil. Can we agree on that?
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Post by aline on Jul 5, 2021 8:07:56 GMT
I mean, I just don't see anything you described as very abnormal behavior for humans. Burning down cities and raping civilians isn't very abnormal behavior for humans. Neither, arguably, are pogroms and genocide. What is your point? That if things have been done before they can't be considered morally wrong? Don't know that many school who'd use your cheating to blackmail your parents, but maybe you know things I don't. When was the last time you had to check for listening devices inside your own living room. There are different levels of surveillance. Adults who work for them, who are on their side, who are not mysterious students with mysterious powers, expect the Court to know every word they say in their own living room. That's what I'd expect from a dystopian dictatorship. If you don't think it's evil to abandon children that were purposefully brought to the Court so they could be used then we have very different moral compasses. "Dangerous". Seriously. It's cruel and the hollow fairy didn't consent in being created that way. We don't know what their deal is, but they seem to be created to only want things the Court can easily give them and do a lot of valuale work with no breaks. I guess we'll find out eventually.
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Post by aline on Jul 5, 2021 8:03:50 GMT
Well. That's it for Loup. I'm not too sad to see him go, but I'm worried for the rest of the Forest.
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Post by aline on Jul 5, 2021 7:28:43 GMT
I'm on board with the ancient Court being huge jerks, but that's kinda the norm for human ancestors. The modern court humans didn't seem to be aware of the magic death shield situation, which I guess isn't good but not really something they could control. I'm not convinced it's evidence the Court's current efforts are more or less morally ambiguous then Coyete and the Forests generally amoral chaotic atmosphere. I mean we see magic characters expressing dismay, but that just tracks that they wouldn't trust science and humans interfacing with what makes them tick. That doesn't mean human curiosity and our desire to understand and control anything and everything we encounter is bad, I mean its what helps the world spin. The modern day Court has always seemed more full of itself then outright malicious to me, but i can see we have some varying opinions on that subject. There's no evidence their philosophy of using innocent people to accomplish their goal has changed at any point. The way they treated Annie (it's not even that her punishment for cheating was harsh, it's how they threatened her wellbeing in order to manipulate her father). The way they have such heavy surveillance on their own folks to the point where clever people like Tony do a thorough sweep of their own house before they speak of certain things. The way they abandoned the Chester students to their own devices after Loup's attacks, because apparently you can just dump a bunch of children once you no longer need them. Whatever is going on with the hollow fairies... They have a track record of treating people like tools. It's incredibly creepy to watch how they treat *their own people*. I have a hard time accepting that it's supposed to be fine because the Forest this and the Forest that. The Forest has its own bad shit, but it doesn't make what the Court's doing ok. I'm not arguing that they are "worse" or "better" than the Forest, I say that they are bad. Fundamentally bad. You can put a murderer next to another murderer, he still committed murder. "My neighbour is an asshole too" isn't a defence.
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Post by aline on Jul 5, 2021 5:14:02 GMT
I think this is the guy for the job personally. since pyradonis expressed the desire to perhaps do it as a team, and Igniz volunteered as well (and has much experience), perhaps the two could work together? (and thanks Igniz for your trust, tho increased travel and work would make it difficult for me going forward...) Sounds good to me
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Post by aline on Jul 4, 2021 13:59:35 GMT
Thing is, we don't actually know why they did that. They murdered an innocent young woman and trapped her in a constant state of torture for centuries. There are no "why" in any universe that would make me think this is forgivable, or even understandable. My heart weeps for their poor little souls but if they were really that scared of being eaten in their sleep, they might have considered leaving. It's not that they had no choice, it's that torturing Jeanne was the most convenient option so everyone nodded that it was very sad indeed and proceeded to plan how to use her. Also let's note that the Court was more or less eating out the Forest with their "seed bismuth" before Coyote showed up. We were told the Court started as a bunch of refugees who were welcomed by the Forest folks. Then they grew their city in the heart of the Forest, creating a huge complex of buildings, most of which they don't need and just stand there empty. Who cares that other people and creatures were also living there, right... Coyote's divide quite possibly protected Gillitie Woods from complete destruction. We can hardly look at these people as victims of circumstances. They had their own powers and they made a lot of cruel choices. Disagree. Ysengrin had no reason to be that horrified by a device that was merely about seeing or understanding the ether. It also doesn't add up with his statement that the Court planned to do something to Annie specifically. All that was knowledge preexisting Loups' birth and the subsequent attacks, so the Court was planning it before the attacks. I do think it's the same device that Loup mentioned, but the fact that it's just about understanding or studying the ether is simply your interpretation that's not at all what Loup said. If the Court kills or captures Loup without further collateral damage, I'll tip my hat to them and congratulate them on a job well done. But I don't believe for one second they'll stop there.
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Post by aline on Jul 3, 2021 18:24:44 GMT
At the risk of sounding controversial, I kinda hope that the Court's scheme works, or at the very least I understand why they are doing it. Loup is a menace, he's a danger not just to the Court but the Forest as well. He can't be reasoned with and he's essentially a ticking time bomb with vast power. I mean, whether that's controversial or not is going to depend a lot on what exactly they're doing? Creating a magical barrier to prevent creatures from intruding into the Court? Sounds like a fine idea. Murdering two innocent people and tying their very souls to the river for all times so that their restless rage and despair can be used as a barrier? Sounds... like a crime that should you send you in prison for the rest of your sorry life, probably. Also whatever they're doing, they started it long, long before Loup existed. We know the Omega project was already a thing when the cast's parents were young adults. And, Ysengrin told us one of the reasons he immediately attacked after eating Coyote was *because* he suddenly knew what Coyote knew about what the Court was planning to do. I'm very bothered by this page: www.gunnerkrigg.com/?p=2027"The Court is far worse than I imagined!" "I cannot let it stand!" That sounds... ominous. Educated guess is their plan involves more horrifying damage to perfectly innocent people in service of their interests.
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Post by aline on Jul 2, 2021 15:00:58 GMT
Let's maybe not diagnose comic villains with mental illnesses that affect real humans. OK. Loup is self-absorbed with an excessive interest in his own qualities, exhibits sharp mood swings from overly high to extreme anger, and seems unable to moderate his behavior. I don't know if you're trying to be sarcastic here, dude ? Hard to tell like that. But one of my best friend is bipolar. Loup's behavior is nothing like bipolar disorder symptoms. To start with, you don't get that diagnose at all without the depressive part of it, and Loup hasn't been depressed a minute in his life. I don't feel like getting into more details, but "mood swings" can mean a lot of different things, pathological or no. While Loup does have explosive anger, his threatening to murder everybody in the room doesn't go away when he's relaxed and in a good mood. It's a play for control. It has nothing to do with having a brain that dysfunctions. He's a dude who thinks he should be in charge and who has the firepower to back the claim. He wants people to do what he wants and figures threatening to mawl them is what will get him there. He's not like that because he's incapable of controlling himself. He just doesn't see the point of not going nuclear as long as it gets him where he wants to be. When his interests are better served by not going nuclear, he calms down awfully fast, which is not something mentally ill people who do suffer from mood disorders can do. That's why we call it a disorder. Otherwise it's just called "being an asshole", which is pretty much what we are dealing with here. Not much of a surprise. Ysengrin was an asshole. He loved Annie, but the rest of the time, he was an awful jerk. And on this particular page he's also, I guess, a bit stressed out because he knows the lake water = impeding death. His behavior might seem illogical but to me it just looks like delaying tactics.
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Post by aline on Jul 2, 2021 12:42:56 GMT
Still, as I mentioned in another thread, it'd be tempting to see her using the tooth to cut through *something*, thanks to her surname being "Carver". (And now I'm wondering whether Tom had planned whatever she'd use the Tooth for from the very start, since her last name appeared on the very first page.) An interesting idea. Carving is a form of shaping, a creation. I don't think Coyote would have given Annie the tooth to destroy or to create a new divide. She is a force that brings people together and makes them work together. I think Coyote decided to use that. For now our focus is on Loup, the current chaotic evil villain. But Coyote already told us he would die. It seems likely at this point, with whatever scheme Aata and other Court dudes are unpacking, that the next antagonist will be the Court itself. A different kind of villain that has a vested interest into the erasure of disorder and monsters, and who probably worked faster lately due to the threat of Loup. So if Loup is gone, and neither Ysengrin nor Coyote are resurrected from the dead... who will protect the Forest? And Ysengrin told Annie that the Court was planning to take her "far, far away". I think the tooth will help Annie stand up to the Court in some form.
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Post by aline on Jul 2, 2021 7:15:32 GMT
It's just a memory, but even a memory of Coyote trapped in a crystal ball or something might be valuable somehow? A good way to bring the character back while keeping Loup around to push the plot along, I think. They already had it in their labs for months, trapped in a bottle. I really doubt their only objective is to transfer it to a different container. Not to mention the homicidal magic wolf isn't just going to let them walk out again taking away something he considers his. No, they hope a lot more from that encounter. Maybe to destroy Loup, or to control him somehow? They've been playing around with the ether, anything is possible really.
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Post by aline on Jul 2, 2021 7:04:19 GMT
Expected so far. Really looking forward to finding out what, exactly, they are going to unleash.
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Post by aline on Jul 1, 2021 4:58:12 GMT
Loup is a narcissistic, bipolar Coyote with no restraint Let's maybe not diagnose comic villains with mental illnesses that affect real humans.
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Post by aline on Jun 30, 2021 12:31:00 GMT
Meh. I felt like Annie walked right into that one. I feel they all did.
But then again, they came for her protection (I guess - what else do you need the two strongest fighters you have anywayy), shouldnt they have some aces up their sleeves that work against Loup? I mean, why try to be the protector of someone if you cant even stand against the enemy you know you are facing?
I know they cant put a dent into Loup, but lets just send them along to pose? That would never have happened. They probably have extremely potent wards up their butts for something like that.
They absolutely had a reason to be there. Annie and Parley, to help get Annie out of there quickly if necessary - they can't kill Loup but that doesn't mean they can't protect her. The shadow men, they definitely have their own little plan. And walked into what? This wasn't a trap, Loup's been threatening to murder everybody since the minute he was born, and he's stated to Annie that he could get through the barrier and destroy the Court if he wanted. It may or may not be true, but why wouldn't a creature of his powers find a way around that? The only reason Loup stopped his attacks on the Court was because he needed them to retrieve the missing items for him, and now that he's getting the lake water back, that reason is going to be gone soon. I don't know why everyone seems to think hiding in the basement would be be the clever decision here. For sure the Court dudes have some aces up their sleeves and if they aren't going to play them now, they might as well jump into the sea.
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Post by aline on Jun 30, 2021 12:13:57 GMT
Annie really playing catch with the mad supernatural godlike creature It still feels like Loup is lashing out and stalling because he's nervous about the whole impeding death thing. Welp. No more time I guess. Can't wait to see how Coyote's plan unfolds.
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Post by aline on Jun 28, 2021 8:57:49 GMT
Annie doing very well so far keeping control of the conversation. It occurs to me that Coyote influenced not just Ysengrin, but also Annie, so that, when the time comes, she would be able to do exactly this. He taught her to stand her ground, to see him, to love him, to expect sudden violence from him. She's learned to know how Loup thinks as well, by now.
I don't expect this situation will be resolved by violence. That's not how Annie works, and she's the one calling the shots right now. So proud of her, she's grown so much.
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