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Post by judgedeadd on Jun 7, 2010 21:45:02 GMT
Technically, we could peel the big "I DO IT BECAUSE I LOVE YOU ZIMMY" away carefully with an image editor, revealing the letters beneath! However, that's a hell of a work, and I must be going to bed right now, so I think I'll delay it a couple of days.
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Post by bigtext on Jun 7, 2010 21:47:06 GMT
So Gamma is really Gamma, and Annie is really Annie, and Gamma really believes that Annie is Zimmy, though we don't know why. And Gamma is helping "Zimmy" in the way that she normally does... by feeding her stream of consciousness thoughts into their telepathic link, which counteracts Zimmy's static. Most of the time. Only in this case, because Annie is actually Annie and not Zimmy, there's no static to counter, so it's overwhelming her, giving her the symptoms of being drunk. (Evidence: the bubbles, and Gamma says so in one of the panels) I agree. I think that the "I do it because I love you Zimmy" is A) just Gamma expressing why she's sticking around through Annie, whom Gamma thinks is Zimmy, being so tired, or B) Gamma knowing that her constant steam of thoughts is hurting Annie, but she has to do it to wake Zimmy up from thinking she's Annie (since that's what Gamma thinks is the case). Or, alternatively, the Gamma we see is actually Zimmy, since we just saw Zimmy run off. If Zimmy can forget herself to the point that she appears as a different person, then she may be Gamma at this point, since Zimmy loves her so much. Perhaps, at some level, Zimmy wishes she could be Gamma. Gamma helps Zimmy so much, that maybe Zimmy wishes the roles could be reversed so she could help Gamma. Couple this with her blatant instability, and she honestly thinks she's Gamma, believing that Annie is Zimmy and trying to help her. The problem, of course, is that Zimmy doesn't have Gamma's ability to help people, and in turn is just transmitting her chaos into Annie, who can't handle it like Gamma could. I'm fairly certain, thinking about it, that my second theory is wrong. Regardless, I'm pretty sure we can rest assured that Annie is Annie, and the constant stress on her, especially with the current situation, just made her slip up her speech. Or, more likely, there's something more sinister with the situation that made her slip up, but we can't know that yet. I know one thing, though: This webcomic is exceedingly well-written.
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Post by bigtext on Jun 7, 2010 21:53:11 GMT
why is Annie hearing Gamma's telepathic speech - and, further, why in English? I'm not sure about the first part of your question, but the second part is obvious. The telepathy is language-neutral, and that's why Zimmy and Gamma can communicate.
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Post by alexscott on Jun 7, 2010 22:08:05 GMT
I KNEW this page reminded me of something!
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Post by Casey on Jun 7, 2010 22:10:01 GMT
I KNEW this page reminded me of something! Oh yeah, I remembered that pic instantly when this page came up. Meant to mention it too...
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Post by todd on Jun 7, 2010 22:23:02 GMT
I think that Annie's slip supports the notion that this really is Annie and not Zimmy. If this is Zimmy making a slip, then she would know that she's really Zimmy and be trying to delude Gamma into thinking that she's Annie - which she has no reason to do. But if this is Annie, then it makes sense as whatever is happening to her is trying to hypnotize her into thinking that she's Zimmy, for some dark purpose.
(Though as I've mentioned elsewhere, I also think it makes far more sense for the chapter if this is the real Annie and not Tom pulling a halfway protagonist switch. I also wonder how much of the popularity of the "It's really Zimmy" notion stems from Zimmy and Gamma's spotlight-stealing status - particularly since I remember similar theories for a while, such as that the Court and everyone in it except for Zimmy and Gamma is all part of Zimmy's hallucination, or that the Annie in Chapter Nineteen was just an illusion that Zimmy was suffering after being transported to her nightmare city.)
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Post by sarapen on Jun 7, 2010 22:25:22 GMT
Both Annie and Zimmy know that Gamma only speaks Polish. So why is this "Annie" speaking English? Well, that's an easy one. The more difficult question is, why is Annie hearing Gamma's telepathic speech - and, further, why in English I think we're supposed to assume that Gamma communicates with Zimmy in the "language" of pure thought. After all, they don't have a common tongue at all. Which doesn't really help with the Annie vs. Zimmy debate because Gamma's current companion could still be either - maybe Jack's head-spider screwed up the laws of etherics or such.
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lovecraft1024
Full Member
What does anything mean? Basically
Posts: 118
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Post by lovecraft1024 on Jun 7, 2010 23:44:48 GMT
Wow, this page is creepy. It just seems like Annie is getting in deeper and deeper. I just want to shout, "Jones! For God's sake, SHUT OFF THE ETHER STATION!!!"
Can just see Jones saying, "Yes, this is far more interesting than shutting it off...."
I can't stand this. I'm going to have to skip this for a week in hopes that by the time I come back, something positive has happened...
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Post by damilo on Jun 8, 2010 1:00:59 GMT
No no no. You guys have it all wrong. It's pretty obvious that Annie is actually Boxbot.
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Post by hal9000 on Jun 8, 2010 2:06:31 GMT
Personally, I think they should just have leveled the building; much safer that way. Barring that, approaching by helicopter is fine too.
Wouldn't it be ironic if Jack ends up saving Annie from certain (brain) death here? Even if inadvertently, due to his pursuit of Gamma/Zimmy for himself.
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paracelsus
New Member
Dreams must be heeded and accepted. For a great many of them come true.
Posts: 22
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Post by paracelsus on Jun 8, 2010 2:06:52 GMT
I think that Annie's slip supports the notion that this really is Annie and not Zimmy. If this is Zimmy making a slip, then she would know that she's really Zimmy and be trying to delude Gamma into thinking that she's Annie - which she has no reason to do. But if this is Annie, then it makes sense as whatever is happening to her is trying to hypnotize her into thinking that she's Zimmy, for some dark purpose. To me, it make sense that Zimmy, not pretend that she is someone else, but to truly forget who she is. With the way she seems to experience memories of the past as if they are actually happening, truly confusing your own identity for someone elses seems like a small mistake to make. I think the slip ups are more evidence in the direction that this Annie is actually Zimmy, though it would be a surprising twist and very creepy if it turned out that it was Annie forgetting who she was with the slip ups.
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Post by Mezzaphor on Jun 8, 2010 2:29:01 GMT
Someone (Legion, I think) was wondering about the status of the Abrahamic religions in the Gunnerverse; so it's interesting that Gamma mentioned Christmas rather than, say, Saturnalia or Yule. They both desperately need one another. Without Zimmy, Gamma's locked off from quite a lot due to a language barrier. And without Gamma, Zimmy would probably die. Actually, Birmingham has a large population of Polish immigrants--that was Tom's inspiration for Gamma's nationality. The language barrier is only an issue because Gamma left her home to follow Zimmy to the Court.
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Post by scottdog on Jun 8, 2010 3:42:06 GMT
I get the impression that Gamma is an antagonist here too. I'm not sure why, but something about her is throwing up all kinds of red flags.
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Post by judgedeadd on Jun 8, 2010 4:58:00 GMT
...and it is done! Much easier than I thought. "...okay because i know that no matter what ha..." "a while i know you don't like _..." Attachments:
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Post by rszasz on Jun 8, 2010 7:12:51 GMT
My first thought on seeing this is that Zimmy either has been dead for a long time, kept animated by Gemma, or that there is no "Zimmy"as such and Zimmy is either a pure construct of Gemma's mind or that Zimmy is projected onto a person by Gemma and that person is wiped out. There would be some echoes of Renard's situation if this is the case, but unlike Renard, "Zimmy" would have no choice in the matter.
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Post by zbeeblebrox on Jun 8, 2010 8:12:23 GMT
Basically Annie walked into Zimmy's mind field...thing. Gamma is always there, because that's how she works. And she just assumes any manifestation within Zimmy's mind is Zimmy. So she assumes Annie is Zimmy. Simple! ...because the alternative is that we have a Fight Club scenario on our hands, and I don't want to wrap my head around that possible mess.
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Post by centzontotochtin on Jun 8, 2010 8:55:22 GMT
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coma
New Member
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Post by coma on Jun 8, 2010 9:23:28 GMT
I am pretty sure they were referring to this specific story arc, specifically the background thought bubbles that ask who annie is in this page of the comic.
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Post by Rex on Jun 8, 2010 10:56:52 GMT
Eh, Gamma's acting like Gamma with the only strange spot being her able to understand Annie without the obvious Polish-speak. Everything else is in line with what we've seen from her, including her knowing how to deal with Zimmy's issues.
No scar on Annie in an a place that's confirmed to be etheric (and where we've seen the scar on her before): This is means this location is not etheric, so it's not Zimmingham, or the person we're seeing is not Annie. One casts a critical eye on the entirety of the area, and the other questions whether the character we're being shown is actually what's there.
To me the former seems to ring hollow, as the implications of it are more ridiculous (and thus less likely to be true, even in GC). The latter is to be expected because Zimmingham is a Zimmy generated realm, territory that Tom can change PoV in to get across just how messed up Zimmy actually is.
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Post by todd on Jun 8, 2010 11:40:15 GMT
I still think that it would be pointless for Tom to suddenly change the story, halfway through, from "Annie discovering what Jack is up to and is instructed by Jones to step in, as part of her medium training" to "Zimmy undergoing an identity crisis".
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Post by Rex on Jun 8, 2010 11:56:20 GMT
Agreed, that's why this is so maddening. A good idea brought up in the 6 page thread was the possibility that Gamma is a Nobody, which would neatly explain a whole host of issues on Gamma's part (the stream of consciousness that seems to wear Annie down, inexplicably understanding English, etc...) but not others that call into question the validity of this whole encounter.
Lots of inconsistencies here, all of them are probably intentional.
Edit: Gah, I completely forgot to factor in Tom's formspring comment about the comment not being nice and what spiders do in general: Trap things in their web. All this could simply be the spider flexing its etheric muscles to get what it wants.
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Post by imaginaryfriend on Jun 8, 2010 13:11:08 GMT
Agreed, that's why this is so maddening. A good idea brought up in the 6 page thread was the possibility that Gamma is a Nobody, which would neatly explain a whole host of issues on Gamma's part (the stream of consciousness that seems to wear Annie down, inexplicably understanding English, etc...) but not others that call into question the validity of this whole encounter. Lots of inconsistencies here, all of them are probably intentional. Edit: Gah, I completely forgot to factor in Tom's formspring comment about the comment not being nice and what spiders do in general: Trap things in their web. All this could simply be the spider flexing its etheric muscles to get what it wants. Agreed. "Gamma" seems to be leading Antimony deeper into the city/trap not out of it. I've spouted this theory elsewhere, that Jack met one of the stronger talking Nobodies with faces in his trip to Zim City. He returned to reality still fooled and the Nobody got out, therefore Spider. I don't think it's wrong to say the Nobody and the Spider are the same thing, though it might be more accurate to say that Nobody Jack met is the web that keeps the Spider secure and fed. "Gamma" may be either the Spider looking to switch to a more valuable host or possibly a different one (offspring of the first?) trying to infect Antimony.
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Post by legion on Jun 8, 2010 13:27:06 GMT
Someone (Legion, I think) was wondering about the status of the Abrahamic religions in the Gunnerverse; so it's interesting that Gamma mentioned Christmas rather than, say, Saturnalia or Yule. Well about that, I know that in the US you have "Christmas = Christian Feast, war on Christmas, don't remove the Christ in Christmas" and all that jazz, but in Europe (or at least, in France), I think the situation is quite different: there, Christmas is a public domain feast that pretty much anyone can and does celebrate, sometimes under another name (for instance, muslims who don't want to say they celebrate "Christmas" say they celebrate "the Children's Feast"), sometimes not even bothering with another name (in France most non-christian people celebrate "Noël" even though etymologically, it means "nativity" (though granted that's not obvious to a modern speaker)). I don't know about England, but I suspect it's a similar situation (see how for instance, they have no problem celebrating Christmas in the Harry Potter books). That said, it *is* the first clear sign of the existence of Abrahamic religion in Gunnerkrigg Court. But as to whether it makes Gamma a Christian or not, that's another matter.
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Post by Aris Katsaris on Jun 8, 2010 15:17:25 GMT
...and it is done! Much easier than I thought. "...okay because i know that no matter what ha..." "a while i know you don't like _..." Very nice job! I also tried fiddling a bit with it in GIMP, but conversely I found it harder than I thought -- was incapable of making it legible. May I ask how you did it? A layer with a "divide" setting?
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Post by bluemotion on Jun 8, 2010 16:39:32 GMT
This may have been suggested already, forgive me if it is.
I think that what's currently happening to Annie is exactly what happened to Jack that made him so messed up. Gamma is the one that's confused; for whatever reason, she thinks that Annie is Zimmy, and thought that Jack was Zimmy when he stumbled into Zimmingham previously.
She then proceeds to work her usual magic, and bleed off any excess etheric energy that "Zimmy" is putting out, but since it isn't actually Zimmy, it's extremely harmful; it drains the victim's energy, damaging their mind and making them easy targets to any ether dwelling creatures, like Jack's spider.
Just my theory.
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Post by paxjax123 on Jun 8, 2010 16:58:12 GMT
It's obvious what is going on here. Kat is behind all of this! Nah jk. I am gettin' so worked up about this, I can't wait until tomorrow for the next page. first post o3o
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Post by Rex on Jun 8, 2010 17:03:16 GMT
Agreed. "Gamma" seems to be leading Antimony deeper into the city/trap not out of it. I've spouted this theory elsewhere, that Jack met one of the stronger talking Nobodies with faces in his trip to Zim City. He returned to reality still fooled and the Nobody got out, therefore Spider. I don't think it's wrong to say the Nobody and the Spider are the same thing, though it might be more accurate to say that Nobody Jack met is the web that keeps the Spider secure and fed. "Gamma" may be either the Spider looking to switch to a more valuable host or possibly a different one (offspring of the first?) trying to infect Antimony. Ah, you just touched on something I always wondered about since Annie's encounter with Nobody-Kat: If someone like Gamma isn't there to glop the nobody that was with you when Zimmingham ends, does the Nobody hitch a ride into the real world? Going with this, we can assume ill will from Gamma's actions if she's a nobody or something closer to what's crawling on Jack.
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Post by the bandit on Jun 8, 2010 17:41:13 GMT
Yup. Every available space riddled with darts.
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Post by Mr Pitchfork on Jun 8, 2010 17:46:18 GMT
The Bandit seems annoyed with all the speculation.
Hmm... Zimmy is annoyed alot. The Bandit must actually be Zimmy and his avatar is Gamma's sister.
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Post by spacemilk on Jun 8, 2010 18:43:16 GMT
Basically Annie walked into Zimmy's mind field...thing. Gamma is always there, because that's how she works. And she just assumes any manifestation within Zimmy's mind is Zimmy. So she assumes Annie is Zimmy. Simple! ...because the alternative is that we have a Fight Club scenario on our hands, and I don't want to wrap my head around that possible mess. I thought of this too, but since we know that Zimmingham experiences are basically situations where you "see the world through that demon-girl's eyes" (thanks Rey ), it's reasonable to assume that Gamma knows this too. So she knows it's possible for people who are not Zimmy to be in there, plus she's experienced it - in the Power Station chapter. As I see it, these are the possibilities: 1) They are in the real world, with an etheric overlay, where Zimmy or Jack is "bleeding" into the real world. We saw this happen in "Dobranoc, Gamma" with Zimmy and when it did happen, Annie's scar appeared; however isn't it possible that Zimmy can perhaps control the bleeding somewhat? Or that the bleeding doesn't affect the same things every time? And if Jack is the one who is bleeding, is he controlling it? We know it IS possible to control it; Coyote does it, Annie did it to a lesser extent when she pushed the boat (side note: Why didn't Jack push the boat? He thought of lifting himself to fly, after all...), and Jack when he flew. 2) They are wholly in the ether/Zimmingham. However, Annie's scar is ALWAYS present in the ether so this is safely ruled out. 3) It is a simulation. If it is a sim, it's possible that Jack or the Court is controlling it. Jones knew what was coming, but that doesn't tell us who it was - either way, I get the sense that Jones was just going to let it happen. There are a lot of interesting implications if it IS the Court doing the sim - for example, if it was, they could theoretically trap someone using a sim. So why wouldn't they have already used this to catch Jack? Unless of course Jack can see through it (which implies Zimmy can) in which case why are they doing it now? Interesting clues: -Whatever is going on, Jones knew it was coming. She let Annie go on by herself, and kept Rey back. (theoretically, Rey would be able to see through an etheric episode or a sim, correct? didn't he get a bit weirded out when they did the history sim? so I think he'd know) -Gamma can communicate telepathically with Annie. Maybe this was always possible. Maybe it's possible when the etheric energy in the air is off the charts. Maybe it's not really Gamma! -Annie doesn't have her scar. Already talked about this above. -Annie (or whoever it is) is having trouble with self-identification. Is it because she's really someone else, or is it because there is some pressure on her mind to think that way? If so, who is putting that pressure on? Personally, I think it's a sim and I think the Court is behind it. I don't think Jack or Zimmy would be able to detect a sim. I think they haven't done this sooner because they have no reason to do it to Zimmy, and they were probably having a hard time tracking Jack thanks to his (justifiable) paranoia.
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