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Post by Snes on Jun 7, 2010 7:00:55 GMT
[731]Huh. Take note of panel 6. You can just see the words "I do it because I love you Zimmy" above their heads.
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Post by edzepp on Jun 7, 2010 7:03:06 GMT
That is beautiful.
What's stunning is that none of the stuff in the square 'telepathy' bubbles is gibberish. It's all completely legible and makes sense, even if it's a bit rambling. That's some nice craftsmanship.
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Post by centzontotochtin on Jun 7, 2010 7:05:12 GMT
That is creeeepy.
What's messed up is the fact that Annie could actually be suffering while Gamma simply smiles, unknowing, and brushes cheeks with her.
Granted, this may or may not be the real Annie, or perhaps the Zimmy we know is actually an amalgam of young girls who've stumbled upon Birminghell and had been molded into a form that allows it to continue existing, like a really proactive parasite. This form, needing to be consistent, is the physical shape and personality that we all know and love as Zimmy Zimmy Zeta.
Also: when Zimmy "forgets who she is" it is actually this process occurring.
Also Also: Once again, this is not what I actually think is going on, rather I came up with it to make the situation as horrible as possible.
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Post by GK Sierra on Jun 7, 2010 7:06:38 GMT
Are you tired we can rest do you have a headache look out for the buses remember to cross when the green man-
And so on, and so forth.
I think that someone else should extrapolate some deeper meaning from that block of text, I'm getting eyestrain.
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Post by foresterr on Jun 7, 2010 7:09:59 GMT
Whew, speculation over (I suppose now there can be very little reasonable doubt whether it's Zimmy or Annie we were seeing since 2 pages ago). I'm wondering if that's how Gamma "tunes out the static". A constant influx of positive, or at least... normal thoughts. A background anti-noise if you will. Maybe she's better at it than Annie not because of some as of yet unknown innate quality, but because she puts conscious effort into it?
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Post by eightyfour on Jun 7, 2010 7:10:06 GMT
I'm sure I'm not the only one here who gets the impression that in reality Gamma is not actually helping. I seem to remember someone pointing something similar out waaay back when we first met her and Zimmy in chapter 5. Like Gamma is actually the "bad guy" and Zimmy the "good guy".
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Post by Snes on Jun 7, 2010 7:13:37 GMT
Whew, speculation over (I suppose now there can be very little reasonable doubt whether it's Zimmy or Annie we were seeing since 2 pages ago). I'm wondering if that's how Gamma "tunes out the static". A constant influx of positive, or at least... normal thoughts. A background anti-noise if you will. Not so fast. The girl we're seeing is clearly tired, borderline passing out on the spot. Zimmy never needs to sleep. If Annie was made very tired for some reason, and had been walking and talking with Gamma who keeps calling her Zimmy, not to mention all the weirdness going on with the buzzing, then it would not be unreasonable to accept that she made a momentary slip of thought in calling herself Zimmy.
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Post by foresterr on Jun 7, 2010 7:17:16 GMT
I'm sure I'm not the only one here who gets the impression that in reality Gamma is not actually helping. Interesting. Could you perhaps elaborate? The only way I can think of in which Gamma is not helping, is that she prevents Zimmy from toughing it up and, um, ah, oh well, learning to control her gift - precisely because she protects her from the worst aspects of it. She's paliative care that prevents the cure. But I'd rather think that without this sort of protection Zimmy would long ago get eaten by the horrors from beyond. Or, more likely, become one. Completely, that is ^^
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Post by wanderer on Jun 7, 2010 7:18:10 GMT
I'm sure I'm not the only one here who gets the impression that in reality Gamma is not actually helping. I seem to remember someone pointing something similar out waaay back when we first met her and Zimmy in chapter 5. Like Gamma is actually the "bad guy" and Zimmy the "good guy". That's a very strange interpretation to get from this. What makes you think that? Hmm. That would make sense, I think. My eyes can pick out individual lines of the text, but trying to read it all makes it blur together. Anyone (like, say, the person who wrote it, hint hint ) want to try posting a transcript of the mess? Arguments could still go either way as to whether this is Annie or Zimmy. People could use this update as evidence for either side, and undoubtedly will.
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Post by Snes on Jun 7, 2010 7:22:17 GMT
The text box at the top seems like a lot of stuff Gamma would say to Zimmy. It goes on at length about how much she likes Christmas.
Many of the other boxes are blocked off by the characters, but one line in the last box jumped out at me:
"-who this Annie is if it is ju-"
It'd fit with the rest if it was something Gamma said in the past, but this is really the only line we know for sure took place after they came to the Court.
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Post by foresterr on Jun 7, 2010 7:27:33 GMT
Not so fast. The girl we're seeing is clearly tired, borderline passing out on the spot. Zimmy never needs to sleep. She never *sleeps*. That's quite a big difference from "needs no sleep". And I suppose it's still damn hard for her to stay awake all the time, she just sort of got used to it, because the alternative is way much worse. Maybe because of what she is, she can refrain from sleep indefinitely long (there has to be something, after all humans can die from sleep deprivation), but I bet the need is still there. Not unreasonable to think that if she started believing she is Annie, she might delude herself about whether she could finally sleep now. Maybe that's what kicks her out from such spells of thinking she is somebody else... starting to fall asleep. And whatever it may entail for Zimmy. OK, fine, speculation not over. But it's a pretty good argument for Zimmy-not-Annie theory, or a fine bit of authorial misdirection, I suppose ;-)
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Alex
Full Member
Posts: 165
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Post by Alex on Jun 7, 2010 7:33:18 GMT
If they're in the holodeck, then this FakeGamma is clearly a Trap![TM]
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Post by eightyfour on Jun 7, 2010 7:41:30 GMT
That's a very strange interpretation to get from this. What makes you think that? Okay, I know this is quite far-fetched and probably not true, but just bear with me for a moment. We all know that Zimmy needs Gamma to "tune out the static". But what if the static was caused by Gamma in the first place? That "buzz" in Annie's head right now doesn't look much better than static to me, at least. What if Gamma was harming Zimmy covertly, and helping her openly, in order to keep close to her? Not quite unsimilar to how Zimmy helps Gamma openly by translating for her, but "harming" her covertly by translating incorrectly when she thinks it will help her keeping Gamma close to her. Or for a more crass analogy, like a drug dealer, who "helps" the addict by supplying what he needs, while being the cause of that need in the first place. What Gamma would get out of this? I don't know, maybe she's some sort of etheric leech who feeds on Zimmy's happiness? I am aware that there's at least one major flaw in this logic, but well, as I said: it's probably not true.
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Post by chipuni on Jun 7, 2010 7:43:47 GMT
Here's my transcription:
Panel 1: sn't it are you tired we can rest do you have a headache look out for the busses remember to cross when the green man ing but not when he is dancing i'll help you across that is a funny sign dont you think can you tell me what it says I think ps here are better than the ones on the other side of the bridge right i think they look nicer do you like the colours zim ope you do do you rember [sic] when they put all the lights up at christmas time and everyone is busy rushing here and there a the one time of the year you don't mind all the people and that makes me so happy to see you happy like that zimmy i rea n't wait for christmas again and everything looks so different and all the strange food they have and the different sound zzing in the air but not in a bad way in a way that makes you close your eyes and just listen to the sounds like the sound c air vents behind the buildings when they are just humming and humming it's almost like you're drunk bit again not in
Panel 2: (asterisks are blocked by thought bubbles.) bout to *ay I think they should ge omebody to *lean *hem up and pu m int* th*** but it's not so bad ks kind of nice don't you think do emember how much I like when yo we should to th find a magazin in look at th can read th
Panel 3: ack they would on! you think ... (missing MUCH text) and ve on colou
Panel 5: metimes but th member and I k *eed to rest re almost ed out of th rail almost y look in the sky have to sian is r
Panel 6: I do it because I love you, Zimmy. (background) no matter what you love me too and we should get ... re and maybe your friend a perso and
Panel 7: gs deep inside you you w sure you're not hungry he ?on leaning isn't too ho this arane is if it is ju n our lives but we can pencil drawings that po eone forget to rub them off the windows looks l ometimes it catches yo t's quite funny it's like ecause it's hard to see
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Post by hal9000 on Jun 7, 2010 7:52:36 GMT
I'm sure I'm not the only one here who gets the impression that in reality Gamma is not actually helping. I seem to remember someone pointing something similar out waaay back when we first met her and Zimmy in chapter 5. Like Gamma is actually the "bad guy" and Zimmy the "good guy". That's a very strange interpretation to get from this. What makes you think that? Well, for one thing, Annie wasn't getting all drowsy and having the black crap start building under her eyes before she encountered Gamma, so... Courtesy of 4chan /co/, there's this 'enhanced' image that should be easier to read:
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Post by penguinfactory on Jun 7, 2010 7:54:47 GMT
This page is "made of win", as they say.
It does seem as if her constant stream of consciousness is tiring Annie, but remember that doesn't mean it has the same effect on Zimmy.
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kefka
Junior Member
Posts: 97
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Post by kefka on Jun 7, 2010 8:13:18 GMT
I believe it's Gamma speaking telepathically to Annie (thinking she is Zimmy), who shouldn't be able to hear it but does (barely) because of her medium abilities, and it's causing her a major headache.
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chibisoma
New Member
Banned - Rule 1
Posts: 49
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Post by chibisoma on Jun 7, 2010 8:21:17 GMT
So here's my two cents.
Zimmy needs to keep the static out. So she tells Gamma that she can just flip a thought stream going to help do just that. If Zimmy focuses on what Gamma's 'saying' to her, she can tune out everything else. And since she doesn't sleep (whether she needs to or not is another story, I guess) then she probably isn't worn down by it. Or, at the very least, she's gotten so used to it by now that it genuinely doesn't bother her anymore.
In regards to what wanderer wrote: Love. That's all. It doesn't need to be any more meaningful than that, I don't think. Zimmy outwardly stated that she loved Gamma back in Power Station. Gamma is simply confirming that it's mutual. They take care of each other, even if the relationship isn't 100% healthy for either of them. They both desperately need one another. Without Zimmy, Gamma's locked off from quite a lot due to a language barrier. And without Gamma, Zimmy would probably die.
They met, and Zimmy realized that she didn't have to be living in constant fear. She's terrified of losing Gamma. That much is evident in the fact that she's lying to her, saying that others are insulting her when they really aren't. She doesn't want Gamma making other friends. She doesn't want Gamma getting close to other people. If she did, she might find someone 'better' than Zimmy. She might find someone who didn't need her to constantly stay awake. Zimmy knows what would happen if Gamma left, and she's scared.
Whether or not either of them knows how the other feels is another thing. Zimmy was clearly messed up for awhile in Power Station, when Annie had to wrangle her to the ground. She wasn't 'safe' until she was with Gamma. I'm fairly sure that of the two of them, Gamma's probably far more likely to've told Zimmy how she feels in the past. Hard to tell, with Zimmy's personality, if she's said as much.
Also, this seems like it isn't the first time Gamma's done something like what happened here. She smiled, put her cheek to Annie's, and Annie went to sleep. I'm sure Zimmy gets worn out sometimes, too, but is just too afraid to go to sleep. Gamma might knock her out, as it were. I don't know how well that goes over, though. Gamma would need to stay awake to help keep Zimmy's dreams from becoming nightmares. Or worse. Presumably, anyway. And we know that Gamma's always tired. Could be why.
Not trying to read too deep into this. Just trying to work out what Gamma and Zimmy, two decidedly opposite people, would find in one another. Gamma's one of the few people who has really seen the 'real' Zimmy - the one that got doused by the rain. The one who was smiling and looked happy. I think, if anything, the love started the first time she witnessed that. And she wanted to try and protect that - she wanted to try and help Zimmy in any way she could so that Zimmy could smile and be normal.
Personally, I think they just need to have a sleepover with Annie. She can cancel out their craziness and they can BOTH get a good night's sleep.
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Post by Aris Katsaris on Jun 7, 2010 8:48:55 GMT
The stream in the the two panels before the last (and possibly all three last panels) goes across. So it forms more complete sentences as follows: (in bold the letters we can see, in brackets the contents of the assumed gaps) Sometimes but th{at's} ok remember and I k{now} you love me too and we should get.... {we}'re almost {the}re and maybe your friend
I don't have the time right now, but I'll make a better transcription letter today, figuring out the first half-lines too.
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Post by scalesandfins on Jun 7, 2010 10:20:26 GMT
Hmm, I still don't think this is Gamma. Her monologue is a bit too Deepak Chopra with the whole white noise soothing you into an altered state
"[bu]zzing in the air but not in a bad way in a way that makes you close your eyes and just listen to the sounds like the sound...air vents behind the buildings when they are just humming and humming it's almost like you're drunk..."
That and the kind of insipid rambling about Christmas (Gamma mutters about her classmates being stupid in Polish) both sounds like an outsider's stereotype of what a caretaker's thought processes look like and also really reminds me of the Witch from CS Lewis' Silver Chair, brainwashing the heroes by going on a long, soothing ramble. Or the hypnotist snake song from "The Jungle Book". "You are feeling sleepy...very sleepy" never bodes well; my money is still on Jack.
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sriad
New Member
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Post by sriad on Jun 7, 2010 10:35:02 GMT
The stream in the the two panels before the last (and possibly all three last panels) goes across. So it forms more complete sentences as follows: (in bold the letters we can see, in brackets the contents of the assumed gaps) Sometimes but th{at's} okremember and I k{now} you love me too and we should get.... {we} 're almost {the} re and maybe your friendI don't have the time right now, but I'll make a better transcription letter today, figuring out the first half-lines too. I agree! With the first half line and joining all three panels gives us something like: [P5]...of you all the [P6]time, zimmy, and I know that you care about me [P7]xxxxxxxxx you forget [so]metimes but th[ behind "I do it because I"] no matter what happens deep inside you you w[ill] [re]member and I know you love me too and we should get [ behind head]sure you're not hungry need to rest [ ...obscured by "love you, Zimmy" and head] the iron leaning isn't too [...we']re almost there and maybe your friend [ obscured by head] who this Annie is if it is just [...]and out of [......................] is a person [.......................]n our lives but we can Spooky!
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Post by Nicer Atom on Jun 7, 2010 10:38:55 GMT
The "I do it because I love you, Zimmy" makes me think that this (whatever "this" may be) helps Zimmy, but she suffers because of it. Or something like that. The speculating part of my brain shuts off at 2am.
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Post by todd on Jun 7, 2010 10:45:56 GMT
I'm sure I'm not the only one here who gets the impression that in reality Gamma is not actually helping. I seem to remember someone pointing something similar out waaay back when we first met her and Zimmy in chapter 5. Like Gamma is actually the "bad guy" and Zimmy the "good guy". I hadn't considered that possibility; Gamma always struck me as, if anything, possibly one of the most saintly characters in the webcomic (you'd have to be a saint to be constantly devoting yourself to the well-being, even at your own expense, of someone as disagreeable as Zimmy - though Gamma's the one person whom Zimmy is never abrasive towards). But maybe.... Tom's certainly pulled other surprises on us before. I hope that this is "Gamma's influence duping Annie into believing that she's Zimmy" (I liked scalesandfins' comparison to the Green Witch in "The Silver Chair") and not the off-stage switch that people have been proposing since last Wednesday; the former makes more narrative sense to me.
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Post by junebug on Jun 7, 2010 11:00:59 GMT
It definitely looks like a trap to me. Whoever 'Annie' is, 'Gamma' is clearly not helping much - it actually looks like she's making 'Annie' feel even more tired. And I still think that 'Annie' is Annie, simply because we've never seen Zimmy act this tired and sluggish. Gamma, yes, but Zimmy? Never. And I'm still sure that 'Gamma' is not really 'Gamma'.
On the other hand, it could be the place itself that makes 'Annie' so tired, but that doesn't really explain why it affects only 'Annie' but not 'Gamma'.
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Post by imaginaryfriend on Jun 7, 2010 11:25:00 GMT
If Gamma was a parasite who bleeds away Zimmy's overabundant energy then I'd expect Gamma would look really strong and healthy, and wouldn't need to stay awake as much as possible. A happy-thought stream-of-consciousness could well be how Gamma helps Zimmy keep control; we do already know she can communicate with Zimmy via telepathy so I think it's likely.
Now, Jack shouldn't know how Gamma helps Zimmy...
...but the spider would know, and that means that even if this is how Gamma helps Zimmy it isn't necessarily the real Gamma. Either way it's not helping Antimony at the moment. It looks almost hypnotic.
I didn't notice it at first glance but Antimony is crying in the last panel. Aw.
[random]There's only half of the "n" in bin left but I think that fragmented line in panel 2 says "I think they should get somebody to clean them up and put them into the bin but it's not so bad." [/random]
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Post by hal9000 on Jun 7, 2010 12:26:00 GMT
I didn't notice it at first glance but Antimony is crying in the last panel. Aw. I don't think so; if you look at the enlarged/enhanced version, it seems to be just the zimmy-type eye-shadow. Also, whatever is happening here now, it doesn't look good for Annie. It'd be interesting to see the bird's-eye view of the real-space rooftop right now.
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Post by parize on Jun 7, 2010 12:29:42 GMT
This is my first post. Been a long time lurker and this took a while to do. This is what I think it says.
frame 1
{i}sn’t it are you tired we can rest do you have a headache look out for the busses remember to cross when the green man ing but not when he is dancing I’ll help you across that is a funny sign don’t you think can you tell me what it says I think ps here are better than the ones on the other side of the bridge right I think they look nicer do you like the colors zim{my} {h}ope you do so you remember when they put all the lights up at christmas time and everyone is busy rushing here and there a{nd} the one time of the year you don’t mind all the people and that makes me so happy to see you happy like that zimmy I rea{lly} {ca}n’t wait for christmas again and everything looks so different and all the strange food they have and the different sound{s} {bu}zzing in the air but not in a bad way in a way that makes you close your eyes and just listen to the sounds lie the sound o{f} {th}e air vents behind the building when they are just humming and humming and it’s almost like you’re drunk but again not in
frame 2
{a}bout today I think they should ge{t} {s}omebody to {c}lean {t}hem up and put {the}m int{o} the {bi}n but it’s not so bad ks kind of nice don’t you think do y{ou} {r}emember how much I like when yo{u} [....................................]y we should to th [......................................] find a magazin{e} [.......................................] n look at th{e} [.................................... ] {c}an read t{he}
frame 3
{l}ack they would [..............................] {d}on’{t} you think s{o}[...................] [......................................................] ni [..........................................................] [..........................................................] [.........................................................]t [.................................................] n[..] l [.....................................................]ey I [....................................................] and [...................................................]ve on [...........................................]{c}olou{r} [.........................................]{ju}st lik{e}
frame 5
{so}metimes but th{e} {re}member and I k {n}eed to rest {we}’re almos{t} [................]ed out o{n} [..................]he raili{ng} [...................]almost [....................]y look I ......................]the sky [......................]{h}ave to [..... .................]sun is r
frame 6
I do it because I love you, zimmy
o{kay}[............]su[..............]{b}ut no matter what ha{ppens} you love me too and we should get[..............................] [.........]k[.......]you[....................]ke y[.........................] ro and maybe your friend[............................................] [....................]s a perso{n}[........................................] [.............. ]{an}d done[..............................................]
frame 7 {ru}ns deep inside you you w{ere} sure you’re not hungry {t}he iron leaning isn’t too {far} {w}ho is this annie is if it is jo m our lives but we can {p}encil drawings that po {som}eone forgot to rub the{m} off the windows looks l{ike} {s}ometimes it catches yo{u} {tha}t’s quite funny it’s like {b}ecause it’s hard to see
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troll
Junior Member
Posts: 53
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Post by troll on Jun 7, 2010 13:39:04 GMT
I'm sure I'm not the only one here who gets the impression that in reality Gamma is not actually helping. Nope.
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Post by Casey on Jun 7, 2010 13:41:22 GMT
So Gamma is really Gamma, and Annie is really Annie, and Gamma really believes that Annie is Zimmy, though we don't know why.
And Gamma is helping "Zimmy" in the way that she normally does... by feeding her stream of consciousness thoughts into their telepathic link, which counteracts Zimmy's static. Most of the time.
Only in this case, because Annie is actually Annie and not Zimmy, there's no static to counter, so it's overwhelming her, giving her the symptoms of being drunk. (Evidence: the bubbles, and Gamma says so in one of the panels)
Unanswered questions: Why does Gamma think Annie is Zimmy? Why does Gamma understand Annie's English, and Annie Gamma's telepathy? Why does Gamma not know a person named "Annie" at all? ("Maybe your friend will know who this Annie is") Why, if they have touched and Gamma is working her magic on Zimmy, are they still in Zimmingham?
Theoretical answer: This entire thing isn't Zimmingham per se, but is one of Zimmy's memories of Birmingham. The buildings, Gamma, the whole situation is actually a replay of one of Zimmy's memories, told from her point of view with Annie as the unwitting passenger. It happens to be a good memory, but its effect on Annie is very different. And the memory/dream has changed slightly with the presence of Annie and Jack in it. And where did the dream/memory come from? I'm guessing from Jack's spider, who was a manifestation from Zimmingham in the first place... and Zimmingham is a nightmare-riddled replay of Zimmy's memories too, so, effectively, this -is- Zimmingham, but not as we've ever seen it before.
That's my theory anyway.
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Post by nikita on Jun 7, 2010 13:45:36 GMT
Ho-ly shit.. (also applies to the two previous pages)
I have tons of theories about all of this but no idea which of them is true.
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