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Post by Charlotte on Apr 29, 2010 10:12:58 GMT
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Post by Mezzaphor on Apr 29, 2010 12:44:54 GMT
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Post by Charlotte on Apr 29, 2010 13:31:29 GMT
Is this an example of ["It is impossible to tell for certain the difference between genuine stupidity and a parody of stupidity." —The General Case of Poe's Law. ], or do you actually believe that? Dear "Pig", I normally do not respond to insulting comments made by people who hide behind anonymous handles on the internet, but, just for the record, because I post under my real name and am not that hard to track down if someone were inclined to do so, I believe and stand by whatever I post, however it is not unheard of that my views are unconventional. Peace and love, Charlotte
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Post by Casey on Apr 29, 2010 15:54:03 GMT
Now now, no need to get testy. PC asked an honest question and you are assuming the worst-case meaning. Poe's Law simply means he couldn't tell if you were taking an extreme stance honestly, or if you were taking an extreme stance in order to parody those that take extreme stances.
If you don't mind my saying, you do tend towards taking extreme stances. Case in point: you seem to have searched through the definition of Poe's Law to find something you could take as an insult (in this case, the use of "stupidity"... despite the fact that the use of that word in context of the definition was, in itself, an example of parody) and attributed that and that alone to what he said, effectively turning an innocent question into the insult that you wanted to perceive it as because you wanted to be offended.
I mean zero offense, I promise you, but, you do seem to have a tendency to reinterpret things to the way you want to see them. Another example is your previous post saying that Reynardine's spirit will be ether-mailed back to his real body if he's outside another body for a length of time. Not only is there absolutely no evidence for that, but Tom has specifically said what would happen if Rey is outside a body for too long (he'll die) so there isn't much room for interpretation there.
If I might advise you, just relax a little bit. No one's trying to hurt you. P.S.: Casey's my real name too, so please take my post as the genuine helpful advice that I intend it as, okay? *virtual hug*
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Post by King Mir on Apr 29, 2010 16:41:22 GMT
The nature of Anya's program/computer deserves a separate thread.
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Post by Charlotte on Apr 29, 2010 17:04:06 GMT
Casey wrote: << If you don't mind my saying, you do tend towards taking extreme stances.>>
I don't mind. It's been noted before :-).
<< Case in point: you seem to have searched through the definition of Poe's Law to find something you could take as an insult (in this case, the use of "stupidity".>>
No, I didn't. I just clicked through the link she provided in her post. It's not underlined -- you have to mouseover it.
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Post by zylonbane on Apr 29, 2010 17:14:14 GMT
I can't figure out what any of those strips have to do with what you just said. As for any mystic link, Coyote specifically says that Rey's body is currently "nothing more than a sleeping fox". It even appears "grey and lifeless" when viewed in the spirit realm. So where did you get the notion of a mystic link from?
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Post by beatfox on Apr 29, 2010 20:18:56 GMT
I'm guessing that the program Jack made took away Renard's ability to possess bodies (a gift from Coyote), sending it back to the ether or Coyote, as the case may be. Renard gracks out of the wolf toy because he no longer has the ability to be in it. You may actually be onto something here. It's often been assumed that the Mercury symbol is Rey's own personal symbol, but this page shows a yellow-filled Coyote eye bearing the symbol - suggesting that it actually represents the body-possession power itself. And now we see that symbol, along with Antimony's, being ripped from Rey's essence. If this does render him unable to take bodies... and he can't survive without one... ...oh dear.
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Post by avurai on Apr 29, 2010 20:26:51 GMT
Or maybe Rey’s soul is being sucked up into the ’security' devices. We have no idea.
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Post by cheddarius on Apr 29, 2010 23:00:07 GMT
The nature of Anya's program/computer deserves a separate thread. Should I make one? It's an interesting topic, and I'd like to find out more about it. My main question is why Anya refers to the eye symbol itself as a program. I've seen visual programming languages, but none quite like this.
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cognizanita
New Member
Where do you think you're going? Because I don't think you're going where you think you're going.
Posts: 14
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Post by cognizanita on Apr 30, 2010 1:54:18 GMT
I'm not yet convinced that Jack is evil or necessarily trying to kill anyone. (Sorry, I'm not sure why. I like insidious characters, but I thought I had no problem admitting they are bad. My lame reason is Jack seems too intelligent to be doing this all for the kicks. Meddling, reckless, callous, forceful, and desperate. But not sadistic.)
I'm beginning to guess that he knows something incriminating about the authorities. That and his trip to Birmingham coupled with his inexperience with etheric things are the reasons I think are causing him to act this way. He's convinced that independent investigating is the only way to find out what is behind the court, Birmingham, Rey, Zimmy, and his own problems. He doesn't care about what he breaks along the way, since I think that he might have found legitimate reasons to act against the court. He is pushed to the edge, but I don't think he's pushed over the edge. I'd say he doesn't think what he is doing is wrong. I'm probably just finding excuses for his behavior, and using wild supposition to boot, but I'm not ready to say Jack is an enemy.
In any case: I see his motivation as obsessed with obtaining answers and willing to push buttons he doesn't understand. Or maybe he thinks he understands and thinks he has everything under control. My first reaction was that he's running more tests without caring about the results, but he probably knew what would happen and has some agenda I can't figure out.
It all makes too little sense to be Jack's entire plan. If he thinks he knows more than Annie about Rey and is trying to kill Rey for her sake, I think I'd see evidence that he is suspicious of Rey. If he wants to force Annie to do something, and needs Rey out of the picture, that seems to fit the situation. Problem is, I have no idea what that would be. Find Zimmy? Maybe. Rey interfered last time, and Annie seemed unwilling.
Anyway, I'm really loving all the ideas people are throwing out there concerning Jacks intentions.
One more thing I'd like to throw into the mix: If Reynardine is forced out of his possessed body by Jack's little devices, what if they were activated on Jack himself? Wouldn't the spider be in the same situation? At the moment Jack doesn't know he is inhabited, so that couldn't have been his motivation for "testing" it on Rey, but I thought it was interesting to consider.
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Alex
Full Member
Posts: 165
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Post by Alex on Apr 30, 2010 3:27:27 GMT
A program can't exist unless it's on a machine. So it's pretty much inherently true that the program, since it exists, is running off a machine. It /could/ be Anja's etheric computer. Jack may be experimenting though, not knowing everything about the symbol or the etheric computer. It's not obvious that what Tom calls "programs" are essentially Vancian spells - sequences of instructions that directly interface with the universe/ether, and don't require any hardware per se.
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Post by imaginaryfriend on Apr 30, 2010 4:51:25 GMT
I'm not yet convinced that Jack is evil or necessarily trying to kill anyone. (Sorry, I'm not sure why. I like insidious characters, but I thought I had no problem admitting they are bad. My lame reason is Jack seems too intelligent to be doing this all for the kicks. Meddling, reckless, callous, forceful, and desperate. But not sadistic.) Agreed. I think it's a good idea to withhold judgment on Jack for now even if he really is trying to destroy Reynard, beat information out of Antimony, or terrorize her into doing something. He is under the influence of something he didn't ask for and isn't aware of. He simply is not himself. Crazy isn't the same thing as evil and if the spider is taken care of I assume he will revert to normal.
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Post by avurai on Apr 30, 2010 5:47:34 GMT
I like to imagine the spider being removed and Jack going back to normal. Then him looking at the dead robot and giving that wide-eyed expression that says a quiet “what? ... Holy-”. Then he gulps, looks at Annie, sees security, freaks out and runs off, terrified of the it and everything going on. Him being seriously overwhelmed. Like he’s been possessed by a demon, acted like a psychopath, killed people, caused a big disaster, then the demon leaves and he’s just mortified and wants to get away from everything, because, to him, none of it was his fault.
That seems like the only way people could ever empathize with him again.
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Post by Casey on Apr 30, 2010 6:37:34 GMT
This isn't sarcasm but an honest question that I don't know the answer to:
If someone slips you some mood altering drug unknowingly in your drink, let's say, and you react badly to it and go into a psychotic break, and while in that psychotic break you run through the streets, and push someone down so hard that they crack their head open and die, what crime, if any, are you guilty of?
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Post by hal9000 on Apr 30, 2010 6:46:02 GMT
This isn't sarcasm but an honest question that I don't know the answer to: If someone slips you some mood altering drug unknowingly in your drink, let's say, and you react badly to it and go into a psychotic break, and while in that psychotic break you run through the streets, and push someone down so hard that they crack their head open and die, what crime, if any, are you guilty of? Assault with Battery and Involuntary Manslaughter, in many jurisdictions. HOWEVER, in most of these jurisdictions diminished capacity and/or insanity are affirmative defenses to those charges, and having a true psychotic break will generally qualify as at least one of those. Some references: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manslaughter_in_English_lawen.wikipedia.org/wiki/M%27Naghten_RulesEdit: As an aside, it should be noted that while the law is useful as a guideline for how one should behave in order to function within society, it is not nearly so useful as a moral standard. Most moral philosophies worth mentioning would certainly hold our hypothetical person blameless for his/her actions under the influence of the drug.
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Post by todd on Apr 30, 2010 10:43:41 GMT
I don't think that anyone's brought this up before, but:
Jack helped bring this upon himself. The reason why he was exposed to Zimmy's nightmare city - which caused all the trouble - was because he had sneaked out after curfew to watch the experiments (it wasn't even rule-breaking for some higher purpose, like Annie sneaking into the robot quarter to rescue Robot's CPU - but just to see something cool). If I was a Court official, I'd be pointing out to the children that this incident should make it clearer why the Court has these rules - for their own protection.
Though I wonder, if the Court's found out enough about Jack to realize why he's acting this way, if any of its staff might be having second thoughts about these experiments with the Ether, knowing what they've done to one of the students. It might be a little much, of course, to expect them to take an attitude of "Let's call off 'Project Bismuth Seed', close down the Court and tell Coyote and Ysengrin that they can have it and make it into part of Gillitie Wood, and go back to regular lives in the rest of the United Kingdom. One child driven mad like Jack is one too many."
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Post by Mezzaphor on Apr 30, 2010 13:18:35 GMT
Though considering the lax view the Court seems to take on the students' wandering (judging by the lack of security in that building) the Court would probably agree that the "punishment" far outweighs the crime.
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Post by the bandit on Apr 30, 2010 19:01:21 GMT
I'm not yet convinced that Jack is evil or necessarily trying to kill anyone. I'll lock shields with you against the haters, but I'd hesitate to say this until we see how he reacts upon finally catching up with Zimmy. Not that I'm saying he's evil or intending to kill Zimmy.The nature of Anya's program/computer deserves a separate thread. Wherein we can all share our knowledge of jargon jargon technobabble.
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