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Post by legion on Apr 28, 2010 13:59:41 GMT
Have none of you watched Ghostbusters? Well I did make the joke a few posts ago~
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optern
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Post by optern on Apr 28, 2010 14:07:59 GMT
To the OP:
WOAH! WOAH WOAH WOAH! WOaaahhhh!
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jon77
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Post by jon77 on Apr 28, 2010 14:14:50 GMT
Strange. So many people have jumped to conclusions which seem to me to be terribly far-fetched (Reynardine has been forced out of the doll body). To me it just seems that Jack has forced Rey's body back into the original doll-shape. Nothing indicates that this is permanent, or that he's been expelled from the doll. Of course, the only reason to do this is because he has some diabolical plan which Rey would object to and prevent. What's confusing me is the little red dots. There's on in panel 3 next to Jack, and in panel 4 it's above Rey. In panel 5 there are 3 of them seemingly connecting Jack and Rey. Also, what's their connection (if any) to the device Jack planted a few pages ago? Those red dots are those devices. And they are what light up into the no eye symbol in panel 6. Are you suggesting that Jack attached 7 such devices to the wall behind Reynardine, and then pressed the button to activate them? I'm not sure I've understood you correctly. To me, the red dots seem distinct from the device he attached to the wall, for several reasons - - The device has two red lights, whereas each red dot is just one red dot, not two very close together - There is just one device that we saw, and there are 7 red dots upon activation. - The red dots seem to me to be floating in the air, not attached to the wall. - The red dots seem to appear by themselves, a few at a time during this page. First there's 1, then again 1, then 3, then 7. I've got no idea what's going on.
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Post by theirishpanda on Apr 28, 2010 14:28:29 GMT
I think it is an artistic liberty for them being in the background, if you look closely at the third panel and the fourth panel (just) you can make out the antennae of the devices.
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Post by warrl on Apr 28, 2010 14:55:25 GMT
Did he just...free Reynardine? From the rag doll body and the bidding symbols? Something isn't right here. Smells like Coyotte to me. No, it looks like Jack's managed to figure out how to do what Anja, Donny, and Eglamore couldn't figure out even with 6 years and an etheric supercomputer. Not necessarily. The adults were hoping to drive Reynardine out without killing Sivo. Jack, at most, drove Reynardine out without killing a non-living stuffed animal. And perhaps Reynardine would then have the option of re-entering the stuffed animal.
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Post by Mezzaphor on Apr 28, 2010 15:09:38 GMT
Are you suggesting that Jack attached 7 such devices to the wall behind Reynardine, and then pressed the button to activate them? I'm not sure I've understood you correctly. To me, the red dots seem distinct from the device he attached to the wall, for several reasons - - The device has two red lights, whereas each red dot is just one red dot, not two very close together - There is just one device that we saw, and there are 7 red dots upon activation. - The red dots seem to me to be floating in the air, not attached to the wall. - The red dots seem to appear by themselves, a few at a time during this page. First there's 1, then again 1, then 3, then 7. I've got no idea what's going on. See also here, where Jack originally placed the devices. Two of these devices are on the wall, and Jack's hand is in place to put a third one up. They have two lights in close-up, but from a distance they're close enough and bright enough to appear as a single dot of light. Why didn't we see Jack put all seven up? Because that would have given away that it was a vaguely eye-shaped design, and because it's a common convention in fiction to skip over repeated steps of a process if nothing of interest happens during the repeated steps. I'm more interested in the "how" here. Since when does Jack display an etheric bent? I've suspected that Jack has an etheric bent ever since the revelation that he got pulled into Zim City. Since the only other two people to get pulled in both had extranormal powers, I've thought that Zimmy's episodes of power incontinence simply yanked in any etheric individuals in the vicinity; so Jack's presence in Zim City was a sign that he has powers or at least potential. The other is the alchemical symbol for mercury, which we saw on Rey's fire-fox body back when he apparently tried to possess Annie. Jack's reply was "So what? It's just a dumb robot" -- not the words of someone who's hoping that the robot will be repaired. If you'll be so kind as to tell me what I said that led you to believe I said Jack had any hopes for the robot's future one way or the other, I will endeavor in the future to be more clear in my phrasing. It was not anything you explicitly said that I misunderstood. When you interpreted the events of the current page as Jack trying to free Rey, for purely altruistic reasons, and then right afterwards said that you forgave him for smashing Guard Robot, I made the assumption that you were taking a similarly optimistic interpretation of Jack's motives in both events. It is certainly a question that's up in the air, but since Annie seems to be one of the few people to actually socialize with any robots, I'm more inclined to trust her judgment. But you're right that we can't exactly blame Jack for what he doesn't know. Well, Jack has also shown sentimentality towards the Laser Cows in the past. That doesn't prove anything, but it does suggest that Jack has grown more callous as his condition has worsened. (And his handiness with the Laser Cows may imply that he's got a fairly good working knowledge of robots; if so, then he'd know darn well that smashing a robot's head is the best way to potentially destroy its CPU.) My point was that, for Jack, whether or not the robot could be repaired never entered into the equation. The robot was in his way, so he smashed it, and the potential of it being permanently destroyed meant nothing to Jack because "It's just a dumb robot".
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jon77
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Post by jon77 on Apr 28, 2010 15:21:13 GMT
Are you suggesting that Jack attached 7 such devices to the wall behind Reynardine, and then pressed the button to activate them? I'm not sure I've understood you correctly. To me, the red dots seem distinct from the device he attached to the wall, for several reasons - - The device has two red lights, whereas each red dot is just one red dot, not two very close together - There is just one device that we saw, and there are 7 red dots upon activation. - The red dots seem to me to be floating in the air, not attached to the wall. - The red dots seem to appear by themselves, a few at a time during this page. First there's 1, then again 1, then 3, then 7. I've got no idea what's going on. See also here, where Jack originally placed the devices. Two of these devices are on the wall, and Jack's hand is in place to put a third one up. They have two lights in close-up, but from a distance they're close enough and bright enough to appear as a single dot of light. Why didn't we see Jack put all seven up? Because that would have given away that it was a vaguely eye-shaped design, and because it's a common convention in fiction to skip over repeated steps of a process if nothing of interest happens during the repeated steps. Ah, I hadn't remembered that panel. You've convinced me - this is sufficient to outweigh the other objections which I mentioned. But I still think it's fair to say that the artwork is confusing.
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Post by the bandit on Apr 28, 2010 15:21:25 GMT
Hah! Clever little devil.
Those of you who are confused regarding Jack's plan seem to have forgotten that a plan is not necessarily a one-step process. Indeed, the most cunning ones never are. To underestimate Jack is a mistake on par with blindly loving him. As far as I can tell, so far everything is going according to plan. (Sure, the guys on the boat showed up sooner than expected, but you'll note that it's only the quickness of their arrival that surprised Jack.)
Whether or not the next step in the plan includes Jack pulling out his childhood teddy bear is a matter of my own humorous speculation.
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Post by the bandit on Apr 28, 2010 15:25:46 GMT
Ah, I hadn't remembered that panel. You've convinced me - this is sufficient to outweigh the other objections which I mentioned. But I still think it's fair to say that the artwork is confusing. The problem is apparently your superpower at differentiating two small, proximate lights at distance. I pity you; it must be hell watching television or looking at your computer monitor. Tom simply drew it from the perspective of the normal, not superhuman, eye. Once again his realism in artistic depiction, while still maintaining style and efficiency, impresses me.
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Post by Mishmash on Apr 28, 2010 15:39:35 GMT
My reaction to this page: NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Mainly because it seems to me like Reynardine is in pain. Look at the noise he makes, and the way he lowers his head, then throws it back and curls up in the last panel. Seems to me that whatever is happening, it is torturing him!
I intially thought he had been forced out of the toy and would try to take Jack's body, but then I dont think he is a murderer anymore. So he will probably try to get back to the toy. I cannot wait for Friday.
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Post by Casey on Apr 28, 2010 15:45:04 GMT
I was thinking that maybe it's the spider's plan that Reynardine be forced to take Jack's body because the spider knows it can, in turn, control Reynardine and all his powers?
This is wild spec, I don't think that's actually going to happen. But wouldn't it really suck if it did?
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jon77
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Post by jon77 on Apr 28, 2010 16:12:02 GMT
Ah, I hadn't remembered that panel. You've convinced me - this is sufficient to outweigh the other objections which I mentioned. But I still think it's fair to say that the artwork is confusing. The problem is apparently your superpower at differentiating two small, proximate lights at distance. I pity you; it must be hell watching television or looking at your computer monitor. Tom simply drew it from the perspective of the normal, not superhuman, eye. Once again his realism in artistic depiction, while still maintaining style and efficiency, impresses me. I'm not complaining that he didn't draw each one as two dots. I'm not criticizing the general style of the comic - usually I'm quite pleased with it. But on this page there are lots of differences between the close-up and the distant views of the devices which made it difficult for me to identify them. For example, the distant views are all red, whereas the close-up is black with two red LEDs. The distant views are surrounded by a white halo, whereas the close-ups are not. In this page the lights do not seem to be in fixed locations on the wall. For example, in the first panel the device is to Jack's left. In later panels they're to his right. Each of these individually might have a very logical explanation, (e.g. Jack and Annie kept walking, the devices were activated so they started glowing) - but still, the cumulative effect made it difficult for me to understand what was going on. In the first panels I thought they were some sort of etheric manifestation, and in the middle of the page they seemed to me to be coming from Jack and moving towards Reynarding in an arc. In any case, you should know there is a third light on the back side of each device... maybe tomorrow I will lend you my super-duper-x-ray-glasses so you can also see them...
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Post by popo on Apr 28, 2010 16:26:27 GMT
I wonder if rey could just possess the spider. it has eyes right? or maybe the coyote tooth has an eye or two also also maybe this was all a setup between Jack and the court. maybe they're helping him find zimmy in exchange for getting rid of rey or something.
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Fen
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Post by Fen on Apr 28, 2010 16:57:09 GMT
Oh dear. Jack just activated a station that sucks up etheric energy from the surrounding environment, and forced Rey into an ethereal form - isn't that like pulling the plug out of the bottom of the ocean and then throwing someone in?
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Post by Refugee on Apr 28, 2010 17:33:09 GMT
I'm guessing that Jack's action will result in freeing Reynardine. Don't know if that's what he intended, but I think that will be the result.
Then the question is, will Rey still be loyal to Annie, although the symbol on the doll no longer binds him? I'm guessing yes, although she will no longer be able to compel him.
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Post by Tipsy Clurichaun on Apr 28, 2010 17:33:12 GMT
Jack is a crazily prepared supervillain, but a supervillain who jumps too far and lands on his side may not get away with stealing communications satellites.
My preferred guess: Jack knows that the ether station may kill Rey(as Fen above me pointed out), and will only save him if Annie will get Zimmy to meet him. This plan may succeed because Annie is bad at bluffing, so she'd genuinely promise to help him. This plan may fail in an epic manner because Annie doesn't like being manipulated...really really doesn't like it.
Wild Spec: Jack's trying to get Coyote's attention, which could result in something funny* happening to him.
*funny for Coyote, not funny from Jack's point of view.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 28, 2010 18:04:05 GMT
No offense to all your speculating, guys, but it's pretty obvious what's going on here.
Jack was rooting around in the school network, and found out that Reynardine is a murderous body-snatching demon that follows Annie everywhere. This is backed up by Jack's own experience, when Reynardine made like he was going to attack Jack for getting too close to Annie.
Too close to answers, perhaps?
Jack finds out the way to extract/trap Reynardine utilizing Anja's etheric supercomputer. He concocts a method to do this himself.
Jack thinks that dealing with Reynardine by starting up the Ether Station and "throwing Reynardine in", so to speak, will make Annie more amenable to his (Jack's) cause. (If not dealing with Reynardine for good, then at least trapping him.)
Annie has helped Jack out several times during this chapter, so it's pretty clear to Jack that she's "on his side".
Now Jack is removing an obstacle for her, in return for Annie's help.
The people who went through Birminghell have to stick together, after all.
Jack believes that he's doing "the right thing", just like when he smashed the Guard Robot. Jack simply doesn't have all the required information about the scenario in question.
This isn't so simple as "good guy" vs. "bad guy". It's NEVER that simple.
Now let's see how this plays out (and see if I'm right).
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Post by Casey on Apr 28, 2010 18:04:21 GMT
I'm guessing that Jack's action will result in freeing Reynardine. Don't know if that's what he intended, but I think that will be the result. Rey still has to occupy a body though. The only things around that he could occupy are the doll, Jack, Annie, possibly the spider itself, and possibly Annie's knife as popo pointed out. If he doesn't get into a body soon, he'll die. That's my recollection, anyway.
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Post by Casey on Apr 28, 2010 18:07:40 GMT
No offense to all your speculating, guys, but it's pretty obvious what's going on here. Jack was rooting around in the school network, and found out that Reynardine is a murderous body-snatching demon that follows Annie everywhere. This is backed up by Jack's own experience, when Reynardine made like he was going to attack Jack for getting too close to Annie. Jack finds out the way to extract/trap Reynardine utilizing Anja's etheric supercomputer. He concocts a method to do this himself. Jack thinks that dealing with Reynardine by starting up the Ether Station and "throwing Reynardine in", so to speak, will make Annie more amenable to his (Jack's) cause. Annie has helped Jack out several times during this chapter, so it's pretty clear to Jack that she's "on his side". Now he is removing an obstacle for her, in return for her help. The people who went through Birminghell have to stick together. Jack thinks he's doing "the right thing", just like when he smashed the Guard Robot. He simply doesn't have all the information. Think about it from Jack's perspective, people. End of story. I completely disagree with you, sorry. I can't imagine even from Jack's perspective how he could possibly think that killing Annie's guardian is going to bring her to his side. Nor can I imagine how he could think she was already on his side, when his entire plan here was to trick her about his intentions and subsequently to kill her guardian. Unless you're referring to thinking about it from Jack's perspective in the sense that Jack's perspective is that of a completely insane person, in which case I suppose any irrational idea is possible.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 28, 2010 18:13:18 GMT
Think about how the school network would put it, Casey. Is it going to say "Reynardine is a fuzzy wuzzy loveable piece of fluff"?
No. The Court hates Reynardine. He is a murderous body-snatching demon, whose presence is only tolerated because Annie has him "under control".
Thus Jack does not see this as "Reynardine is her guardian and bestest friend ever (besides Kat)".
He sees it as "Reynardine is exceptionally dangerous and should be disposed of".
Jack seems irrational to you, but this is actually a completely rational way to look at the situation. That's why I say "think about it from his perspective"
Rational decisions always seem irrational to those that have more information.
Rational means "making the best decision based on the available information". Jack doesn't have the whole picture.
You may disagree with Jack's methods, but they aren't the methods of someone who's shithouse-crazy.
In fact, if Jack were crazy as a shithouse he wouldn't be anywhere near as dangerous as he is.
If I'm wrong, then oh well, but I really think this is what's going down.
Pretty much the only alternative I can think of is that Jack's just in it for the lulz (think The Joker), and that would be... kind of disappointing.
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Post by Snes on Apr 28, 2010 18:35:25 GMT
I'm more interested in the "how" here. Since when does Jack display an etheric bent? I don't think you need to be ethericly adept to use the computer. Donald used it back in Fangs of Summertime and he hasn't been shown to be very much in-tune with the ether. Dang, Jack. What you planin'? I don't think he could do too much damage, at least not yet. My guess: he found out about the computer and decided to test how well he could use it. Do some research, cobble together some doo-dads, and give it a go. What will this do to Rey? Maybe he'll be forced to re-posses the doll, maybe he'll be suppressed into doll form for a time, or maybe this just gave him a sharp jolt to his etheric form. My money is on the second one. I don't see anyone getting killed this chapter.
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Post by Refugee on Apr 28, 2010 18:42:18 GMT
I'm guessing that Jack's action will result in freeing Reynardine. Don't know if that's what he intended, but I think that will be the result. Rey still has to occupy a body though. The only things around that he could occupy are the doll, Jack, Annie, possibly the spider itself, and possibly Annie's knife as popo pointed out. If he doesn't get into a body soon, he'll die. That's my recollection, anyway. He's got his own body. Coyote's been saving it for him.
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Post by Ulysses on Apr 28, 2010 18:43:22 GMT
What the heck is Jack doing?! I do have an idea though. The way Jack says "Almost forgot!" seems to indicate that the events of this page were only supposed to happen after Jack had done what he wanted at the power station, which makes me think that it's meant as a diversion to help them escape. My theory is that the power station collects ether, right? What it's been collecting so far seems to have been background noise, background magic if you like. I'm guessing that a living etherial being such as Reynardine would be far more potent, and may well overload the system if absorbed. This would have a rather nasty effect on the power station and would definitely cause a distraction. We've already seen Jack being callous about taking a life to aid his goals and, if you're as unbalanced as Jack, it's not a huge leap between "it's not alive, it's made of metal" and "it's not real, it's made of ether", so I can see him doing something like that.
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Post by Casey on Apr 28, 2010 18:44:18 GMT
Well the nice thing about all this speculation is, we won't have to wait too long to see what Tom actually has in store. At least this page didn't come up on a Friday update, right?
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Post by Casey on Apr 28, 2010 18:45:31 GMT
Rey still has to occupy a body though. The only things around that he could occupy are the doll, Jack, Annie, possibly the spider itself, and possibly Annie's knife as popo pointed out. If he doesn't get into a body soon, he'll die. That's my recollection, anyway. He's got his own body. Coyote's been saving it for him. Yes, but, that body is miles away in the Forest. Reynardine can't exist nearly that long without a body, if I recall what Tom said correctly.
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Post by popo on Apr 28, 2010 18:46:48 GMT
Think about how the school network would put it, Casey. Is it going to say "Reynardine is a fuzzy wuzzy loveable piece of fluff"? No. The Court hates Reynardine. He is a murderous body-snatching demon, whose presence is only tolerated because Annie has him "under control". Thus Jack does not see this as "Reynardine is her guardian and bestest friend ever (besides Kat)". He sees it as "Reynardine is exceptionally dangerous and should be disposed of". Jack seems irrational to you, but this is actually a completely rational way to look at the situation. That's why I say "think about it from his perspective" Rational decisions always seem irrational to those that have more information. Rational means "making the best decision based on the available information". Jack doesn't have the whole picture. You may disagree with Jack's methods, but they aren't the methods of someone who's shithouse-crazy. In fact, if Jack were crazy as a shithouse he wouldn't be anywhere near as dangerous as he is. If I'm wrong, then oh well, but I really think this is what's going down. Pretty much the only alternative I can think of is that Jack's just in it for the lulz (think The Joker), and that would be... kind of disappointing. I think jack would be willing to trust what he sees with his own eyes ( rey trying to attack him for getting all up in annie's grill, looking ashamed when his trying to kill her was pointed out, and telling jack not to finish his sentence regarding removing their clothes) rather than something the court wrote up.
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Post by Mr Pitchfork on Apr 28, 2010 19:27:11 GMT
Oh man oh God oh man oh God
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Post by TBeholder on Apr 28, 2010 19:33:41 GMT
So, at last we saw Renard with both symbols. Aye, thy newfangled technosorcery is a fancy thing, lad. But unlike Anja's good old medallion, that's a lot of semiconductors, plastic, solder, batteries... Ye know what these things have in common? Bad heat resistance. So, what can happen in a split second after Annie recovers from the shock? A bug goes out in a puff of acrid smoke; Rey looks at Jack with... err... let's call it vivid interest; Annie (without looking at either) says "so, it appears now here's one more party you owe a very good explanation to"... Because given both size and range of Annie's fireworks, there are only two ways it doesn't happen: the plant blocks her completely or Reynardine needs to have this thing turned on (the station sucks him down the drain or no proper body in range). Of course, she can just disconnect a battery, but probably not quicker than she could reach it physically. Also, if the station is a problem for Reynardine but not Annie, she may try to cause a big fire alarm, hoping for an emergency shutdown. So... this talk about "making her come to me", I wonder if that was genuine or just an excuse to Annie for why he powered up the station. So far, there seems to be 4 variants total: 1) He wants it as a beacon to Zimmy, as he said. 2) He wants it to depower Antimony. 3) This powers up etheric part of his trap. 4) It's a second trap for Reynardine. Rey will have to take a new body quickly. I seriously doubt he'll take Annie. Jack, you've no one to blame but yourself for your impending death. A definite possibility, too. But not when he's trapped by the symbol. I doubt he could even pass away while bound, whether he got a body in time or not. Also, I think Jack is already 'occupied', so to speak, and that Rey wouldn't really want that spider as a roommate. IMHO "Take back the web!" just got a completely new meaning. ;D Though this begs the question, now that Rey can't protect Annie, what is Jack going to do to her? Show that he's not afraid of jumping at her through a roaring wall of fire? Again, unless that ether-pump prevents it.
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Post by cripplerking on Apr 28, 2010 20:04:31 GMT
I think I know what's going on... Jack wants revenge.
Perhaps Hyland Sr. was the man Reynardine possessed and killed in his efforts to woo Surma, hence Jack has a grudge. Jack probably hadn't known this previously but discovered it whilst rooting around in the Court's computer records.
However, presuming the Power Station doesn't consume Reynardine, he may well possess Jack in turn to survive- a something of a repeat of the past.
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Post by Jiminiminy on Apr 28, 2010 20:41:51 GMT
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