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Post by Mishmash on Dec 6, 2009 11:43:11 GMT
Maybe Jeanne died because she tried to swim across the uncrossable river and it killed her. The bridge was built to make sure such a thing never happened again?
Sorry should this be in wild speculation? I dunno!
In more on-topic news, I love the cambot looking at himself in the mirror on this page, that panel looks lovely.
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Post by imaginaryfriend on Dec 6, 2009 16:45:23 GMT
I realized something else. We were talking about how characters resemble other characters, and the past repeats itself in the present. I don't think it's Annie and Kat that Tom may be referencing here. It's Surma and Anthony. Look at the pattern - she had good relations with beings of the Forest, she got along famously with Coyote and Reynardine, and she was quite beautiful to the point that several males (Rey included) were taken with her. Anthony is confirmed as far more scientifically oriented, disdainful of mystical things, and yet he must have loved Surma on some level to have a child with her, and care for her in the hospital. A lot's still not known, but the pattern of Diego/Jeanne seems to hold to some extent in Anthony/Surma. It's just something to think about. I like the way you guys have been thinkin' in this thread. Let me add one more layer of speculation and suggest that there's also room for a strong parallel between how Antimony fell from the bridge and how Jeanne met her end. Perhaps Jeanne fell and died accidentally during a confrontation between the Court and the Forest and that alignment of circumstance is how Jeanne's ghost was able to cross the Waters to reach Antimony.
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quats
New Member
Posts: 11
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Post by quats on Dec 6, 2009 19:19:08 GMT
I do agree that she's showing signs of shunning her humanity and was considering what if she was one of the first people to take the test and failed? Or possibly died on her way to arrange for the test to be made? It certainly seems to point to the bridge being created as a result of her death and from Coyote's explanation, it seems plausible that swapping sides had a factor in it's creation. Diego's "and we did nothing" could be a reaction to not taking her feelings into proper consideration, the beast-bot that robot fought being a representation of Diego's own short commings... I think you're close. Myself, I'm starting to wonder if she tried to cross over, perhaps was the origin of the "test" to truly cross and live on the other side -- but failed DUE TO DIEGO since he doesn't listen and doesn't understand. Thus, he would have desperately tried to prevent her death and saw only his own failure and loss when he failed, instead of his destruction of her wish. He may also have transferred the blame, instead of facing it himself, to the leaders of the Court, if they were allowing her to attempt to cross; thus the creation of the beast-bot to slay to reach Jeanne's tomb, apparently in Sir Young's image ( www.gunnerkrigg.com/archive_page.php?comicID=585). It's already quite clear that Diego doesn't see what he doesn't want to see.
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Chrome
Full Member
The Shiny One
Posts: 232
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Post by Chrome on Dec 7, 2009 1:06:54 GMT
Yeah, but then it would've been "I did nothing" and had nothing to do with the robots.
Variations:
If it's the Court's fault: "She died and they did nothing." If it's Diego's fault: "She died and the maker did nothing." If it's Jeanne's fault: "She died and we failed to see why."
Think about it. "We did nothing" seems to mean something directly related to the robots' sentiments. Jeanne died...and the robots were powerless, helpless, or unwilling to do anything about it, and they remember that.
It's almost as if the robots are reacting to an innate flaw in their own programming that Diego failed to fix, let alone see, because of his own very human blindness regarding Jeanne. So it could very well be something along the lines of Asimov's Robot Laws - "She died and we did nothing." They couldn't bypass their own (flawed) programming becuase of Diego's mistake, and they may have seen that at the time, and will forever memorialize this instance where they failed to carry out their creator's true wishes.
That...would be enough to make for a society-dividing problem among the robots, I'd say.
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Post by strainofthought on Dec 7, 2009 3:31:59 GMT
Chrome, thine comments run along similar lines to my own, as of this page. I'm getting a sinking feeling that Jeanne is going to say something emotionally driven in the recording which the robots would interpret as a command that they all must follow, perhaps expressing a desire to go back to the forest, or perhaps something as severe as "Stop pretending to love me and go away.", and the robots are completely helpless as to how to follow it.
It is also possible that this recording is not the only record the robots would have of Jeanne's wishes, just the best and least ambiguous.
As to the change of attitude towards Diego, I also think he is being extremely creepy, but that doesn't preclude my ability to empathize with him. He is a complex, tragically flawed character, and I think this sort of depiction of people- which Tom excels at- is usually much more honest than the watered-down mainstream-palatable approach to storytelling where there are Good Guys who are perfectly adjusted and Bad Guys who are so insane you wonder how they can put their pants on in the morning.
EDIT: HOLY CRAP, I just used the word 'thine' sincerely, without intending to, and then didn't notice that I had done so until I re-read my post an hour later. Maybe I need to re-evaluate what I'm choosing as reading material.
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Post by avrenim on Dec 7, 2009 5:01:48 GMT
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Post by Yin on Dec 7, 2009 5:32:58 GMT
Chrome, thine comments run along similar lines to my own, as of this page. I'm getting a sinking feeling that Jeanne is going to say something emotionally driven in the recording which the robots would interpret as a command that they all must follow, perhaps expressing a desire to go back to the forest, or perhaps something as severe as "Stop pretending to love me and go away.", and the robots are completely helpless as to how to follow it. It is also possible that this recording is not the only record the robots would have of Jeanne's wishes, just the best and least ambiguous. As to the change of attitude towards Diego, I also think he is being extremely creepy, but that doesn't preclude my ability to empathize with him. He is a complex, tragically flawed character, and I think this sort of depiction of people- which Tom excels at- is usually much more honest than the watered-down mainstream-palatable approach to storytelling where there are Good Guys who are perfectly adjusted and Bad Guys who are so insane you wonder how they can put their pants on in the morning. EDIT: HOLY CRAP, I just used the word 'thine' sincerely, without intending to, and then didn't notice that I had done so until I re-read my post an hour later. Maybe I need to re-evaluate what I'm choosing as reading material. And here I'd assumed you'd been caught by the filter.
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Post by wynne on Dec 7, 2009 6:01:42 GMT
Eugh, this guy's creepy. He clearly isn't hearing a word that Jeanne is saying, yet he says he loves her. This sums up my feelings pretty well. Noting what ding said about technoautism, I have to agree with rhoffman here. At least Jeanne isn't giving Diego mixed signals, but is still nice to the poor guy. And it seems that even though Jeanne doesn't love Diego, she does considers him enough of a friend to confide in, despite the fact that he doesn't understand what she's saying. Look, I'm gonna go out on a limb and suggest that maybe Diego doesn't hear what Jeanne's saying because he can't. Call it technoautism or Asperger's syndrome or whatever, but there are plenty of people out there who simply have trouble interacting on a social level. It doesn't make them creeps, but because they don't act the same, they often get branded as such. Maybe Diego honestly can't see how a rational person like Jeanne could disagree with his view, or maybe he thinks she's going through a phase. After all, she did stay with the Court, not the forest. All I'm saying is try not to brand Diego a creep when he's just trying to make her feel better the only way he knows how.
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Post by Rasselas on Dec 7, 2009 8:41:17 GMT
Amazing find! I've been wondering about Jeanne's sash, as it didn't seem picked out to go with her dress. I bet we could find more examples of it. Edit: She also has it in the portrait, of course.
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