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Post by Goatmon on Dec 4, 2009 17:55:10 GMT
It's starting to look like Reynardine's opinion on Diego, save his assumption that Diego loved from afar, is pretty accurate.
Sadly.
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Post by emjoseph on Dec 4, 2009 18:01:36 GMT
RE: Canus (sorry, I can't figure out how to quote)
That's actually a good point...Renardyne previously mentioned that the doggy demigods didn't arrive in the area until after the events of the establishment of the Court. Yet in this strip we are informed that the divide occured while the founders were still alive and in their (relative) youth. I wonder if Renard is holding information back
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Post by the bandit on Dec 4, 2009 18:07:20 GMT
1) The Bismuth seed creates the court. 2) Coyote & Ysengrin & Reynardine arrive 3) Coyote divides the court and the forest, creating the Annan waters. Do ho ho. This is important. If Reynardine arrived at this time, he would probably KNOW Diego and Jeanne. And I don't know if this is important or not, but they seem to be looking at the Seed Bismuth in panel one (this has probably been discussed) Though a possibility, to be possible one must interpret a period of time between #2 & #3. By my reading the text that you linked (and the general storyline), it seems more plausible that Coyote immediately divided the Court and the Forest upon arriving, leaving Reynardine no time to get to know anyone on the Court side of the equation. EDIT: This is just a reflection on my current, story-informed POV and not a statement or prediction of the facts.
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rageboy
Junior Member
just like real cows! only with lasers.
Posts: 91
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Post by rageboy on Dec 4, 2009 18:38:19 GMT
Interesting. Apparently little really means little. Unless the court's depiction of its formation was just them putting a bunch of important people together for the formation and some of them weren't actually there. I tend to agree with sostorm that Jeanne is probably the reason the first medium existed rather than being the first medium herself. I think emjoseph is right that the bridge was probably constructed as a result of Jeanne's death, so she couldn't be a medium: She had no way to get across to the forest side. But re: canus and emjoseph's response: EDIT: I also agree with the bandit that the court and forest were separated as soon as they arrived.
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Post by idonotlikepeas on Dec 4, 2009 18:38:20 GMT
Well, I don't know that Jeanne is showing an allegiance to the forest here, per se. She just likes trees. If I thought someone were trying to destroy all the trees and animals in my town and replace them with robots and machines, I would probably be a little upset too, despite the fact that I rather like technology. She's just noticing that the Court and the Forest are behaving like children.
As for Reynardine, why assume that he knew Diego and Jeanne even if they were contemporaries? We don't know how much attention Reynardine paid to the Court itself and the people in it until he met Surma.
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Post by chiparoo on Dec 4, 2009 18:44:16 GMT
Also also: is it established how far ago was all of this? Why no other medium has ever been 'contacted' by Jeanne before? Perhaps no other medium has fallen into the Annan waters. The court did something to the water to make it uncrossable, but Annie up and crossed it with the help of the tic-toc birds. Maybe it was her crossing of the waters that drew Jeanne to her, or allowed Jeanne to cross.
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Post by warrl on Dec 4, 2009 18:48:57 GMT
Also also: is it established how far ago was all of this? Why no other medium has ever been 'contacted' by Jeanne before? My opinion on the latter point is that Antimony is probably the first medium with strong presence in the etherium to fall asleep beside the Annan Waters since Jeanne died. (Start by considering that there's apparently no established route from the Annan Waters back up to the Court side of the gap. Which means that humans rarely go down there at all.)
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Post by Per on Dec 4, 2009 19:02:05 GMT
Or a woman in love with someone else... Coyote! Coyotagoat! Spankies!
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Post by rosesablaze on Dec 4, 2009 22:07:22 GMT
Eugh, this guy's creepy. He clearly isn't hearing a word that Jeanne is saying, yet he says he loves her.
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ding
Full Member
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Post by ding on Dec 4, 2009 23:47:03 GMT
Technoautism: Developmental disorder characterized by impaired social and communicative faculties, compensated by the construction of robots and other non-affective automatons. (DSM-IX)
Totally agreeing with speculations that Diego made his bots' eyes green in homage to Jeanne.
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Post by nikita on Dec 5, 2009 0:45:27 GMT
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troll
Junior Member
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Post by troll on Dec 5, 2009 1:08:43 GMT
Would explain why her soul is still hanging around. Way to die in a nigh-impossible-for-another-medium-to-get-to place, Jeanne. And bear in mind the only reason Anne is barking up this tree that potentially leads to Jeanne's relief is because Diego took the time and effort to enshrine her out of remorse- a beacon to the ages. That's friendship.
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Post by djublonskopf on Dec 5, 2009 2:29:14 GMT
Nature and technology are not competing ideologies, where one has to choose one or the other. A person can want to live in civilization without wanting to destroy everything that's natural. Humans are not machines. Diego fails to see that. The ideology of the court, it seems, fails to see that. Ysengrin's ideology fails to see that. There is a lot of failing to see, it seems, and I think it's hurting people. It's possible that, when the "other side" can bring trees to life and use them as death machines . . . you have to destroy everything that's natural if you want to live in civilization. Possible.
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Chrome
Full Member
The Shiny One
Posts: 232
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Post by Chrome on Dec 5, 2009 2:43:04 GMT
Let's not forget there was mention that something happened to the Annan Waters to make them impassable - the Wood was the side that wanted the Bridge if I remember right, for the purpose of letting those humans who tired of a human existence cross to the forest.
It's entirely possible Jeanne's death caused the beginning of this chain of events, possibly, as said here, the development of a medium to mediate between the two sides. She sounds more pro-forest than neutral. Look at how she talks about the trees, and the "prison of iron and glass." A neutral party would see both sides equally. She doesn't.
I suspect what happened is that she died for the Forest, and that was what set all the above in motion.
Whoah now there's an idea - she tried to cross to the Wood, and the Court saw it as treachery. It sends Young to deal with her, and she somehow ends up dead just to try and cross the Waters. And as a result, her ghost cannot cross the Waters for whatever reason (re-enacting the situation, like Martin's ghost did with his death perhaps).
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Post by Snes on Dec 5, 2009 2:52:56 GMT
Yes, let's drop the whole eye-color conspiracy. It's been discussed and disproven several times. What's with all the Diego hate on here? Suddenly he's on everybody's bad side.
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Post by Goatmon on Dec 5, 2009 12:18:03 GMT
Also also: is it established how far ago was all of this? Why no other medium has ever been 'contacted' by Jeanne before? Perhaps no other medium has fallen into the Annan waters. The court did something to the water to make it uncrossable, but Annie up and crossed it with the help of the tic-toc birds. Maybe it was her crossing of the waters that drew Jeanne to her, or allowed Jeanne to cross. Isn't it possible that anyone can cross it, and that Muut was merely making incorrect assumptions?
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Post by sebastian on Dec 5, 2009 14:02:29 GMT
Nature and technology are not competing ideologies, where one has to choose one or the other. A person can want to live in civilization without wanting to destroy everything that's natural. Humans are not machines. Diego fails to see that. The ideology of the court, it seems, fails to see that. Ysengrin's ideology fails to see that. There is a lot of failing to see, it seems, and I think it's hurting people. Diego have no reasons to love nature after what she did to him.
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Post by Yin on Dec 5, 2009 14:43:30 GMT
Nature and technology are not competing ideologies, where one has to choose one or the other. A person can want to live in civilization without wanting to destroy everything that's natural. Humans are not machines. Diego fails to see that. The ideology of the court, it seems, fails to see that. Ysengrin's ideology fails to see that. There is a lot of failing to see, it seems, and I think it's hurting people. Diego have no reasons to love nature after what she did to him. I don't understand. The 'she' in your sentence could only be Jeanne- we've not seen any other female characters in this time period yet- but what could she have done to him? Especially since we're talking about 'now' before she died, not after, when he made the shrine.
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Post by Per on Dec 5, 2009 15:26:36 GMT
The 'she' in thine sentence could only be Jeanne Or nature.
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Post by Yin on Dec 5, 2009 15:37:48 GMT
Which still begs the question: what could she have done to him?
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Post by Casey on Dec 5, 2009 15:46:53 GMT
I think sebastian meant that Nature made Diego ugly, and therefore he has no reason to do Nature any favors in return.
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Post by sebastian on Dec 5, 2009 15:58:36 GMT
I think sebastian meant that Nature made Diego ugly, and therefore he has no reason to do Nature any favors in return. Exactly. Ugly and (judging from the thickness of his lens) almost blind, in nature he probably would have died young or had been unable to sustain himself. It is technology that make him functional (with glasses) and give him something he was good at (with his robots) why would he want anything to do with Nature, hmm!?
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Post by Mezzaphor on Dec 5, 2009 16:09:23 GMT
Perhaps no other medium has fallen into the Annan waters. The court did something to the water to make it uncrossable, but Annie up and crossed it with the help of the tic-toc birds. Maybe it was her crossing of the waters that drew Jeanne to her, or allowed Jeanne to cross. Isn't it possible that anyone can cross it, and that Muut was merely making incorrect assumptions? Coyote has also corroborated that the inhabitants of the Court did something to the Annan to make it impassible. For the time being, it's more plausible to assume that both are right than that both were mistaken.
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rageboy
Junior Member
just like real cows! only with lasers.
Posts: 91
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Post by rageboy on Dec 5, 2009 17:00:25 GMT
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Post by Rasselas on Dec 5, 2009 19:48:37 GMT
Diego have no reasons to love nature after what she did to him. Hahahaha. Cruel, but funny.
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Post by anobject on Dec 5, 2009 21:29:18 GMT
Perhaps Jeane's death resulted in not the building of the bridge across the Annan waters, but in making it impassible in the first place. Coyote says "The Court had done something" to make it uncrossable. That doesn't necessarily mean it was done when the ravine was first created. He also says the a bridge was made, "eventually." That implies that it was created not in response to an event, but rather as a cumulative relaxation of tensions.
So, either the Court could have intentionally done something to the river in response to her death, or Jeane herself could be the barrier. If it's the first, then her death would have been either caused by the forest, or used by the Court as propaganda against the forest, even if it was not their fault. If Jeane is the barrier, that would have much more interesting consequences. It would explain why Muut was wrong: no one but her can cross.
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Post by roboticelf on Dec 6, 2009 2:28:00 GMT
Eugh, this guy's creepy. He clearly isn't hearing a word that Jeanne is saying, yet he says he loves her. This sums up my feelings pretty well.
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Post by Yin on Dec 6, 2009 5:10:10 GMT
I think sebastian meant that Nature made Diego ugly, and therefore he has no reason to do Nature any favors in return. *facepalm* I've been unusually dense the past few days.
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Post by Snes on Dec 6, 2009 6:57:38 GMT
Eugh, this guy's creepy. He clearly isn't hearing a word that Jeanne is saying, yet he says he loves her. Man, why is everyone creeped out by Diego? He loves a girl of a totally different mindset from him. She is going through a very difficult experience that he doesn't understand and can't help her get through. He's trying to support her the only way he knows how, but she remains distant. I think it's sad. Nobody's fault, just sad.
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Chrome
Full Member
The Shiny One
Posts: 232
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Post by Chrome on Dec 6, 2009 6:59:31 GMT
I realized something else. We were talking about how characters resemble other characters, and the past repeats itself in the present.
I don't think it's Annie and Kat that Tom may be referencing here.
It's Surma and Anthony.
Look at the pattern - she had good relations with beings of the Forest, she got along famously with Coyote and Reynardine, and she was quite beautiful to the point that several males (Rey included) were taken with her. Anthony is confirmed as far more scientifically oriented, disdainful of mystical things, and yet he must have loved Surma on some level to have a child with her, and care for her in the hospital. A lot's still not known, but the pattern of Diego/Jeanne seems to hold to some extent in Anthony/Surma.
It's just something to think about.
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