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Post by warrl on Nov 12, 2018 16:35:19 GMT
It would be interesting and fitting with some of the themes in the comic if both were actually really real, for realz. When one of the two ends up being fake, this will a be a trick that has been written about very often before (changeling the lost, anyone?). Both actually being real with none having precedent over the other... can't wait. It wouldn't be the only comic I read with identical twins where one was magically created... ... but in the other one they are easier to tell apart, because one's male and the other's female.
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Post by lemarc on Nov 12, 2018 16:50:12 GMT
Maybe there's some truth to Coyote being the one that made the shadow men. Um, when was there ever any doubt? He's Coyote. Even if he didn't originally do it, he did retrospectively, because it's part of the real-world myths (although I think the specific nature of the shadow men is a wholly Gunnerkrigg thing).
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Post by zaferion on Nov 12, 2018 17:15:07 GMT
Maybe I've become accustomed to non-makeup Annie, but seeing her with it on now, it looks almost clownish. Am I alone here? I went back and looked at old Annie and it was totally fine, but this is.... wrong, somehow. I don't think this is also a real Annie. I think it's a very good copy. Makeup!Annie's eyes' proportions are a little off; they're drawn a bit taller than normal, not to mention her eyebrows that have shot up so high they've reached her hairline. I think it's just to show makeup!Annie's shock at the situation
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Post by pyradonis on Nov 12, 2018 17:30:53 GMT
First of all, for all who hung themselves up on the hairclip on Friday: both Annies have one. The holes in the fire/hair where it is cut in the real world are very interesting. I just reread part of the last chapters, and if I am not mistaken, it took until "Neither" for Annie's ether-hair to be again flowing around the panels and being all fiery instead of just at the tips(barring her flash of anger at Ysengrin after he crushed her blinker stone). Which to me suggests Court!Annie is a copy (real or not) pulled from before the destruction of the blinker stone, with a different history since then. Though it should mostly be her personal history that is different, since, even if resident's memories were altered (which I don't believe), Annie did too many things of impact since then. Hmm... It wouldn't be the only comic I read with identical twins where one was magically created... ... but in the other one they are easier to tell apart, because one's male and the other's female. How can they be identical then?
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Post by davidm on Nov 12, 2018 18:11:20 GMT
The girl is obviously seriously mentally ill and playing along with her delusions won't help her get cured. Ghosts, talking animals and "gods" and now this "evil twin"/split body nonsense. The poor girl needs treatment in a good mental hospital.
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Rea
Junior Member
Posts: 53
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Post by Rea on Nov 12, 2018 19:06:07 GMT
If both are real, I wonder what short-hair-Annie remembers happened in the forest. If she isn't real, I wonder what she told the others.
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Post by Runningflame on Nov 12, 2018 19:46:58 GMT
Hey, it could be worse.
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Post by fia on Nov 12, 2018 19:47:10 GMT
Okay I know quoting myself is weird but I am thinking this page, where Coyote talks about taking a life "without letting it escape", may prove to be very important. This is not exactly how I thought this ability would be relevant, but it seems possible that this is how it works. Radical thought: what if it's not only Annie who has been duplicated, but the whole Court? What if Loup extracted the lives of almost everybody at the Court and let Annie 'return' to a simulation? If Loup is really kooky and weird and really attached to Annie, he might not let her go at all. It seemed super weird to me that he had 'frozen time' for the Forest, but in the meantime Annie's hair grew like it had been a year, and the Court is all different. Is that really how stopping time works? Is it just that Loup can't stop time for Annie, but he can for others? So many questions.
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Post by fia on Nov 12, 2018 19:50:14 GMT
I still like the alternate-universe theory though because it would do so much to make sense of the TicTocs. For me, the TicTocs were always going to be about either time-travel or multiple dimensions. It might be that Kat made them, as has been WildSpec'd forever; but we still aren't sure why she had to. I had always suspected there was a timeline where Annie died that Kat wanted fixed. But perhaps it's just this scenario, where the timelines are split, and Kat (or maybe a particular Kat???) figures out a way to use principles in quantum physics to "see" the alternative universe(s).
I mean, there's been allusions everywhere to the idea that Kat is going to figure out the most fundamental principles of nature.
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Post by warrl on Nov 12, 2018 20:11:04 GMT
First of all, for all who hung themselves up on the hairclip on Friday: both Annies have one. The holes in the fire/hair where it is cut in the real world are very interesting. I just reread part of the last chapters, and if I am not mistaken, it took until "Neither" for Annie's ether-hair to be again flowing around the panels and being all fiery instead of just at the tips(barring her flash of anger at Ysengrin after he crushed her blinker stone). Which to me suggests Court!Annie is a copy (real or not) pulled from before the destruction of the blinker stone, with a different history since then. Though it should mostly be her personal history that is different, since, even if resident's memories were altered (which I don't believe), Annie did too many things of impact since then. Hmm... It wouldn't be the only comic I read with identical twins where one was magically created... ... but in the other one they are easier to tell apart, because one's male and the other's female. How can they be identical then? "Magically created." Just after the split, they even had identical memories.
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heranje
Full Member
Oh super wow!
Posts: 175
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Post by heranje on Nov 12, 2018 20:40:54 GMT
Looked at the page again and another thing occurred to me: we haven't seen Court-Annie's etheric face. While panel 5 seems to be from the perspective of Court-Annie looking at Forest-Annie and her etheric self, panel 4 shows Court-Annie from the back for some reason (even though it's not the angle Forest-Annie would be looking at her from). This could just be to highlight the strangeness of her hair, but Tom would also have ways to draw that while still showing her from the front. Also, as mentioned before, in panel 5 Forest-Annie's face shifts from shock to suspicion. Could the face of her etheric form be what reveals that Court-Annie is not quite as "Annie" as she appears?
Ooor it's just an artistic choice. But it's fun to guess.
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Post by mturtle7 on Nov 12, 2018 21:23:48 GMT
Uh-oh. Now that it's confirmed they both have fire elemental aspects, I'm terrified that my earlier speculation of Annie #2 dying in the exact same way as Surma is about to come true. Seriously, it's hard to imagine anything that could possibly traumatize Annie and Tony more. Which would also make it awfully hard for them to do anything about the Loup situation, incidentally.
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Post by faiiry on Nov 12, 2018 21:27:07 GMT
Annie's hair is short; ergo, "The Tree" still happened - but she's wearing her makeup, ergo, we can assume that Tony decided to allow her to wear her makeup once again when she returned from the forest and began living with him. Surprisingly kind move for the King of Jabronis.
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Post by faiiry on Nov 12, 2018 22:25:40 GMT
Just thought I'd mention, last time we saw Annie wearing makeup (IIRC): way back in 2015.
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Post by pyradonis on Nov 12, 2018 23:36:03 GMT
"Magically created." Just after the split, they even had identical memories. I still do not understand. The magic part is fine. But how could they be identical if one had a male and one a female body? Even in order to have identical memories, one would have to remember growing up in a body that was obviously not theirs.
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Post by pyradonis on Nov 12, 2018 23:39:40 GMT
Okay I know quoting myself is weird but I am thinking this page, where Coyote talks about taking a life "without letting it escape", may prove to be very important. This is not exactly how I thought this ability would be relevant, but it seems possible that this is how it works. Radical thought: what if it's not only Annie who has been duplicated, but the whole Court? What if Loup extracted the lives of almost everybody at the Court and let Annie 'return' to a simulation? If Loup is really kooky and weird and really attached to Annie, he might not let her go at all. It seemed super weird to me that he had 'frozen time' for the Forest, but in the meantime Annie's hair grew like it had been a year, and the Court is all different. Is that really how stopping time works? Is it just that Loup can't stop time for Annie, but he can for others? So many questions. If Annie is in a simulation, she will not be able to get back the things Loup wants. Very probably not the bone and water, and certainly not the power of possession.
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Post by todd on Nov 12, 2018 23:49:36 GMT
If Annie is in a simulation, she will not be able to get back the things Loup wants. Very probably not the bone and water, and certainly not the power of possession. Yes, which is what makes me sceptical about all the "simulation/parallel universe/gone back in time" theories. Unless Loup was lying about wanting them (and the bone and water will have to have some function in the story, so I'd rule that out) or something else he hadn't counted on took place as a side effect of all the etheric disruption (which would make the story too complicated). I did consider one reason why the story might take such a turn: Loup gets impatient because the "two Annies" confusion has distracted everyone from delivering the goods he wanted, attacks the Court and destroys it, with everyone but Annie (the long-haired one) getting killed - with Annie pulled out from it just in time and learning that it wasn't the real Court - thus letting Tom do a big "Ragnarok-level" sequence without killing off the cast for real. But I don't think he'd carry out such a piece of self-indulgence.
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Post by warrl on Nov 13, 2018 0:24:30 GMT
"Magically created." Just after the split, they even had identical memories. I still do not understand. The magic part is fine. But how could they be identical if one had a male and one a female body? Even in order to have identical memories, one would have to remember growing up in a body that was obviously not theirs. Well, the pre-split single being was ordinarily of one sex but temporarily of the other sex. The split was an unintended consequence of trying to shorten the definition of "temporarily". Things can get weird when that sort of magic is involved. Almost as bad as figuring out the verb tenses for time travel...
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Post by brilliantgrey on Nov 13, 2018 1:02:44 GMT
I'm beginning to worry that the chapter title "Neither" was not only about our friend Loup, but his fire-headed favorite as well...
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Post by mochakimono on Nov 13, 2018 1:08:05 GMT
Random wild prediction: They fuse/combine/merge etc. and we get a chapter (or more) showing things from short-hair Annie's perspective, which is also how long-hair Annie in-universe experiences the flood of gained memories.
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Post by shaihulud on Nov 13, 2018 1:19:49 GMT
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Post by warrl on Nov 13, 2018 5:16:18 GMT
Extremely safe prediction: the story will not be depicted as going this way.
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Post by dramastix on Nov 13, 2018 5:46:19 GMT
So... still not on the alternate universe train, but I will say I'm getting a massive Fauxlivia from Fringe vibe (I may or may not be re-watching at present). It seems reasonable to me that Short!Annie will be dispatched with within a chapter or two, and the fallout is going to be the relationship baggage as Annie has to deal with the fact that all of her closest friends and family were duped by a fake version for months. (And you Fringe fans know exactly to what I'm referring!)
I don't see how a simulation or an alter-Annie in any way help Loup in his objective of getting the Gifts back. But destroying Annie's relationship with her Court people, so that she's maybe motivated to defect back to the Forest? That I can see. Though for the sake of Annie and Kat, I hope his plan doesn't work, if indeed that's what's going on.
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Gauldoth Half-Dead
New Member
Contrary to popular belief, I do NOT eat children.
Posts: 42
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Post by Gauldoth Half-Dead on Nov 13, 2018 6:47:29 GMT
Okay, first off, IT'S THE WORK OF AN ENEMY STAND!I do absolutely love this, you just know Tom's not going to do some simple "I'm the real Annie, shoot her, Kat!" thing with this. I guess I'd say that both are "real" in their own way, because Loup is powerful enough to do that... but I'd wager that Court Annie bears the marks of her creation in the ether, and Forest Annie can pick up on how her etheric form is too wonky, and her face will be a dead giveaway - bear in mind that we have not seen it yet, only Forest Annie. I honestly have no idea why this happened - besides Loup basically being a crackhead trickster god - and am VERY intrigued. Also, just as an entertaining shot in the dark... maybe the Court quietly replaced Annie after she was away for a while, that's why her hair is wonky. Maybe their endeavor to become god is paying off, but it's still imperfect.
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Post by zbeeblebrox on Nov 13, 2018 8:14:10 GMT
Possible plot twist: there will be more Annies. Imagine if, after sending this Court!Annie back to placate the Court, he then made it even more difficult on our Annie to prove her realness by sending out a series of terrible, obvious fakes that were each increasingly more realistic, culminating in this Annie returning. That would really mess with everyone, and make the whole situation unnecessarily difficult for no good reason. Which seems appropriate behavior for Loup
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Post by Timberwere on Nov 13, 2018 10:09:49 GMT
We'll need to reread "Neither" to look for the place where the Split could have occurred - assuming that's what happened. Disclaimer: This is not my own discovery, but in the comments for the comic itself, a user named Mr. CLFN suggests it could have been here where Loup caused the split.
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Post by noone3 on Nov 13, 2018 11:46:36 GMT
What i Tom wants to make a spin-off comic this way?
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Post by todd on Nov 13, 2018 12:46:46 GMT
I don't see how a simulation or an alter-Annie in any way help Loup in his objective of getting the Gifts back. But destroying Annie's relationship with her Court people, so that she's maybe motivated to defect back to the Forest? That I can see. Though for the sake of Annie and Kat, I hope his plan doesn't work, if indeed that's what's going on. Except, as imaginaryfriend pointed out in another thread, since that estrangement came about because of the Annie that Loup made (and which he's close-to-admitted to making), would Annie want to live with the guy who helped bring about that rift (and presumably wanted to)? On the other hand, she would have nowhere else to go; the Forest might seem the only alternative to living on the streets. (Though, under Loup's misrule, it's not that desirable a place to live in either.) I wonder whether Loup simply made the alternate Annie so that the Court would stop looking for her and leave him alone - and didn't think out what was going to happen after that. Given what we've seen of him, that seems likely.
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heranje
Full Member
Oh super wow!
Posts: 175
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Post by heranje on Nov 13, 2018 13:56:42 GMT
I wonder whether Loup simply made the alternate Annie so that the Court would stop looking for her and leave him alone - and didn't think out what was going to happen after that. Given what we've seen of him, that seems likely. This is where my money is as well. I don't think we should be analysing Loup's actions as though he's some kind of tactical mastermind with a long-term plan. Coyote was the trickster - Loup seems to have received Coyote's proclivity for chaos combined with Ysengrin's short fuse and tendency to act impulsively. There's a core distinction here where Coyote often seemed irrational and impulsive, and played up those traits, but in fact that "impulsive" behaviour was often hiding various hidden agendas and schemes. Meanwhile, Ysengrin seemed calm and measured most of the time, until wild flashes of rage would have him acting first and thinking second. Loup seems to have retained the chaotic sides of both of them, but apparently without Coyote's hidden calculating depths or Ysengrin's external composure. A delightful combination. Quoth Annie: "It's almost funny how you claim to be a combination of two creatures and yet your personality is so lacking."
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donna
New Member
Posts: 34
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Post by donna on Nov 13, 2018 15:52:14 GMT
I predict it is time travel....
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