[2069] She... seems to be real...

[Nepycros]

I dunno guys, I like the cut of this Annie's jib, are we sure she's the fake?

[imaginaryfriend]

In general, I think the one that "Loup" held onto longer is more likely to be real. Or more real.

[edit]Two things of note: Court!Annie has the classic makeup and her fire looks like it may be having a problem beyond jumping the hair-length gap in panel #4[/edit]

[eskhn]

STAND NAME: 「GIRL ON FIRE」

STAND MASTER: ANTIMONY CARVER

[madjack]

Yeah that fire-hair on Annie2 is interesting. Would her etheric self still have long hair if it was cut normally, sans blinker stone?

[somebunny]

Well, that's concerning.

I think both are 'real', and Court-Annie was torn from Fire-Annie (either partly or fully). It's been established that something can probably exist before it is created, so it's possible despite Annie not having experienced it yet, or maybe her memory of it was just removed by Loup. It looks like the two are both genuinely confused, I hope they both work together to figure out what's going on. I'm filled with anxiety at the possibility that Court-Annie is a fake, but will convince the others she is real and Forest-Annie is fake.

I really hope it doesn't take Forest-Annie too long to point out that Court-Annie's ether self is messed up looking, and gets corroboration from someone else who can see the ether. (Renard?)

[philman]

Anyone else get a feeling similar to when Zimmy/Annie changed bodies, or whatever happened back then (I still get confused when trying to interpret that chapter)

[gpvos]

Nov 12, 2018 8:16:20 GMT madjack said:

blinker stone?

The blinker stone might have been a way to distinguish between them (who of the two can summon it?) if it hadn't been destroyed. Which is probably why it was destroyed.

[madjack]

Nov 12, 2018 8:58:42 GMT gpvos said:

Nov 12, 2018 8:16:20 GMT madjack said:

blinker stone?

The blinker stone might have been a way to distinguish between them (who of the two can summon it?) if it hadn't been destroyed. Which is probably why it was destroyed.

Or make it more complicated when they both can. Which is what I'm betting will happen if we see Rey taking Annie²'s orders too...

[imaginaryfriend]

That Court!Annie is here suggests that Renard didn't tell people she was a fake but Antimony doesn't generally command Renard to do stuff.

[krael]

It would be interesting and fitting with some of the themes in the comic if both were actually really real, for realz. When one of the two ends up being fake, this will a be a trick that has been written about very often before (changeling the lost, anyone?). Both actually being real with none having precedent over the other... can't wait.

[imaginaryfriend]

Even if they both aren't real if they're both permanent characters who have to get used to each other that would be a cool way for the story to progress.

...You know, if one's fake but has fire that's close enough to the real thing, and if Anthony can remember where his "antenna" is, then he could probably use the fake to bring Surma back.

[zaferion]

So let's talk possibilities. What if both of them are actually real and that neither of them have any real ulterior motive?

edit: This is why Tom left us with short hair!Annie for so long! He wanted to let us get accustomed and used to her with short hair so that, when he throws two Annies at us later, he has an easy way to visually distinguish between the two of them. I thought it was weird that Tom didn't play the "Annie magically regrowing her hair" card a long time ago--I really expected it when Ys shattered the Blinker Stone--but I just assumed it was a metaphor for pain taking a long time to heal (which I guess it still is! two birds with one stone amirite).

edit 2: I think short!Annie's messed up looking fire is what would have happened naturally as her hair grew back out and that gap in her fire closed. Yet another metaphor for recovering from trauma and pain.

edit 3: But if they are both real, then that means Loup's power is horrifyingly, staggeringly more than we thought. Or at least, more than I thought. Maybe there's some truth to Coyote being the one that made the shadow men.

edit 4: Perhaps the two Annie's are supposed to be a more literal representation of Annie's choice between Court and Forest. Long!Annie looks distinctly wild with her long, unkempt hair and clad in Coyote and Ys's colors, while short!Annie is the picture perfect definition of Court civility. Previously this distinction between Court and Forest was shared by etheric-friendly Annie and mechanic-friendly Kat; it was nice, but always suggested that Annie was destined to side with the Forest and that her stay in the Court was temporary. Turning Annie into her own representation of Court vs Forest makes her choice of which side to fall on more salient and brings it back to the forefront of the story. It feels like Annie's choice between the two is more uncertain than ever as of these last two pages.

edit 5: Long!Annie and short!Annie is an interesting delineation considering that Annie's wardrobe of late has been incorporating aspects of both the Court and the Forest. (See: this page. That outfit would certainly be acceptable at the Court, but not at the detriment of being able to move around in the Forest; as opposed to this outfit, where she eschewed Court standards and dressed purely for ease of movement in the Forest, or her Medium uniform that completely ignored the Forest's environment for the sake of meeting stuffy Court dress codes.) Along with her recovery from Anthony's return, Annie has been reconciling her two disparate natures, perhaps hinting at her ability to ultimately meld Court and Forest together as a true Medium should. But these last two pages with their introduction of short!Annie vs long!Annie so far seem to have broken that reconciliation and forced Annie back into her two halves, paralleling her recent decision to split her fire from herself. Does that parallel mean we should expect both Annies to eventually effectively recombine and restore Annie's reconciliation, or will the story defy that parallel and send Annie down the path of choosing, once and for all, between the Court and the Forest? Find out next time on Dragon Ball Z!

I have a lot of thoughts about this page

[heranje]

Something's definitely up with Court-Annie - that hair and the "holes" where it was cut is... strange. That's how I read Forest-Annie's expression in panel 5 as well - she goes from shock/confusion to suspicion when she sees how weird-looking Court-Annie's etheric self is. However, from C!Annie's shocked reaction and declaration that F!Annie seems real, maybe she doesn't know that herself?

Also, notice how in her conversation with Loup, F!Annie's hair didn't end in flames but in a glowing blunt end, while C!Annie's ether-hair dissolves into flame at the end?

I think there's something to the splitting the fire theory, but who got it - or most of it?

[arf]

Nov 12, 2018 8:51:14 GMT philman said:

Anyone else get a feeling similar to when Zimmy/Annie changed bodies, or whatever happened back then (I still get confused when trying to interpret that chapter)

Gamma knew what was going on. She might figure this out (haven't seen those two since the cruise!)

I'm thinking of the first time Annie flipped to Zimingham, and met a very realistic Kat

[todd]

We'll need to reread "Neither" to look for the place where the Split could have occurred - assuming that's what happened.

[jda]

So a nice conversation in the ether
" Who are you?" " Who are YOU? "
Bring Renard and give them both the chance to order him around.
And both Annie's would be capable of.

[imaginaryfriend]

At least the Antimonies had the sense to look at each other through the ether right away. I was figuring it would take place at the end of today's page and the result would be teasered into the next update. Antimony of two in-comic years ago would have taken pages and pages to do that.

[faiiry]

What if one of the Annies never goes away and there remains two of them throughout the comic, like they were twins all along? Now THAT would be a plot development.

[saardvark]

Several interesting things about Court!Annie's etheric form hair (some already noted by others ... trying to gather them together here):
1) hair is of split type (side-by-side), part fire elemental, part normal human (vs. Forest!Annie, whose hair - like original!Annie's - blends from normal to fire at the tips)
2) both hair types are long (unlike mundane-space hair which is cut - after Annie first cut her hair, the elemental retained the long hair, but with a gap)
3) both hair types have a wonky connection at the point that Court!Annie's (mundane-space) hair is cut
4) the fire-hair seems to become real flames at the end (vs, having the form of hair, but lit like fire) and is shedding embers/fire dandruff
All this to me suggests that Court!Annie's fire elemental is (mostly, at least) a wonky Loup copy of the real thing. It seems unstable and not fully controlled.
Not clear if this means the human side of Court!Annie is also a copy... probably yes, but this still doesn't rule out the idea that some essential elements of
both sides of Court!Annie are "real", "borrowed" from Forest!Annie, who is also incomplete. Reintegration may still ultimately be needed.

edit: (1) might imply that her hair is wavering between normal etheric and fire elemental... the fire elemental side is weaker and more fragmentary, not fully integrated into Court!Annie.  Another argument that it is a poor copy of the real thing.

[saardvark]

Nov 12, 2018 13:07:57 GMT faiiry said:

What if one of the Annies never goes away and there remains two of them throughout the comic, like they were twins all along? Now THAT would be a plot development.

Though initially wary of each other, they eventually reconcile, realizing each is a part of the original whole, and work together to bring down Loup.  When they succeed (undoubtedly with lots of help from the GK Scooby gang). and Loup's power is destroyed (perhaps reconstituting Ys and Coyote), Annie is suddenly "reintegrated" into her original whole.  Well, one way it could play out, maybe?

[saardvark]

Nov 12, 2018 11:32:08 GMT heranje said:

Something's definitely up with Court-Annie - that hair and the "holes" where it was cut is... strange. That's how I read Forest-Annie's expression in panel 5 as well - she goes from shock/confusion to suspicion when she sees how weird-looking Court-Annie's etheric self is. However, from C!Annie's shocked reaction and declaration that F!Annie seems real, maybe she doesn't know that herself?

maybe court!Annie can't see into the ether?!

[Corvo]

Haven't read the thread yet, but here's a few points I find worth of note:
- Coyote couldn't create human life (hence the shadows), so I doubt Loup can.
- Dimentional shenanigans? (time is a dimention too, you know)
- Both Annies have etheric projections. Could one be fake? Could her Fire be divided?
- "But you were lucky there was not another creature able to control fire there today. Hmm. Might have complicated matters."

[dramastix]

Couple of thoughts -

1) I love the movement indicated by the first frame. You can hear the chair clattering. It's moments like that that make me wish Netflix or HBO would pick up Gunnerkrigg (but they'd probably ruin it so best I keep those thoughts mostly to myself).

2) Maybe I've become accustomed to non-makeup Annie, but seeing her with it on now, it looks almost clownish. Am I alone here? I went back and looked at old Annie and it was totally fine, but this is.... wrong, somehow. I don't think this is also a real Annie. I think it's a very good copy.

[Jelly Jellybean]

Piling onto the Both Annie's Are Real train...

Maybe Loup has tried multiple times to get Annie to help get his stuff back.  At first Annie refused and now we see her as Court Annie.  Then Loup looped time creating another Annie and tried again.  In comic we saw another attempt and now we see Forest Annie.  Wait long enough and another Annie may come along.  Eventually the Court will give him his stuff back just to stop the flood of Annies.

Loup / Loop... see what Tom did there?!

[ctso74]

But they're cousins,
Identical cousins all the way.
One pair of matching bookends,
Different as night and day.

My vote is they're both real. Loup may not be able to create life, but maybe he can split a flame. This should be very interesting. And possibly dramatic, if long!Annie decides short!Annie has taken things from her(moving in with her father, spending the lost time with Kat, all important in-jokes).

[ohthatone]

Nnnnergh this page raises existential alarm bells. if both Annies believe they are the real Annie, one of them has to admit they are not real and stop existing. Or at least admit their entire life as they knew it was a lie and try to continue living as a different being.

I am hoping one of them (likely Annie2) will at some point be like "oops, jig's up! Ta, all!"

[liminal]

Given the latest comic retrospective, I hope Court!Annie isn’t winked out of existence, like our dearest Mortimer. I’m digging the Tale of Two Annies.

[imaginaryfriend]

Nov 12, 2018 15:01:31 GMT ohthatone said:

Nnnnergh this page raises existential alarm bells. if both Annies believe they are the real Annie, one of them has to admit they are not real and stop existing. Or at least admit their entire life as they knew it was a lie and try to continue living as a different being.

I am hoping one of them (likely Annie2) will at some point be like "oops, jig's up! Ta, all!"

You've probably got nothing to worry about. I don't think "Loup" can make a good copy of the fire so Annie II will probably not be able to hold her form (possibly her life) for the long haul. And Anthony will get another chance to fail at saving someone who's degenerating from lack of fire. I just hope she lasts long enough for some good character development, particularly between Antimony and Kat. [edit]And with the other students in Antimony's class, too... a second "big dumb giant" should thoroughly confuse them.[/edit]

[Anthony]

Possible plot twist: there will be more Annies.

[philman]

Nov 12, 2018 14:40:00 GMT Jelly Jellybean said:

Piling onto the Both Annie's Are Real train...

Maybe Loup has tried multiple times to get Annie to help get his stuff back.  At first Annie refused and now we see her as Court Annie.  Then Loup looped time creating another Annie and tried again.  In comic we saw another attempt and now we see Forest Annie.  Wait long enough and another Annie may come along.  Eventually the Court will give him his stuff back just to stop the flood of Annies.

Loup / Loop... see what Tom did there?!

Oh I like this idea! At least the idea that this isn't Loup's first attempt, and the Loup/Loop name. Loop trick.

Nov 12, 2018 13:07:57 GMT faiiry said:

What if one of the Annies never goes away and there remains two of them throughout the comic, like they were twins all along? Now THAT would be a plot development.

Hmm, this would also potentially be a way to subvert the tragic nature of Annie and Surma's ancestry that so broke Tony. Normally when the woman in that family gives birth, the fire spirit is passed along and the mother dies. If there are two Annies, there are also two fire spirits as we see here? So if one of them has a child, and the fire spirit is passed on, will the other copy of Annie survive?