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Post by zimmyzims on Apr 23, 2014 7:00:36 GMT
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Post by Nepycros on Apr 23, 2014 7:04:18 GMT
Annie's a bit of a hypocrite. She's young, so she has more time to hammer out her virtues, but this isn't a habit she should promote, no matter how noble it seems for a lingering ghost of a little boy.
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Post by sapientcoffee on Apr 23, 2014 7:04:48 GMT
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Post by chrisjenl on Apr 23, 2014 7:06:52 GMT
Hear i there a but come???
Like but you have to do one more thing for you can go.
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Post by arf on Apr 23, 2014 7:09:09 GMT
Paraphrase:
"Yays! Now we get to exorcise you!"
(Does happy spirit dance)
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Post by Gotolei on Apr 23, 2014 7:10:27 GMT
Well at least she makes a convincing act of it. Right down to the disney-style floaty dress thing.
Acting or not, I think this is the first time we've seen Annie like this..does the RoTD bring out livelihood in the living or something :?
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Post by zimmyzims on Apr 23, 2014 7:19:59 GMT
Hear i there a but come??? Like but you have to do one more thing for you can go. Good call! |
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Post by sleepcircle on Apr 23, 2014 7:31:01 GMT
Annie's a bit of a hypocrite. She's young, so she has more time to hammer out her virtues, but this isn't a habit she should promote, no matter how noble it seems for a lingering ghost of a little boy. EDIT: by the way i should probably ditch the sarcasm that was here and actually say something for real. changing your mind is not hypocrisy. she accepted what they told her and does not wish to hurt mort's feelings. hypocrisy is telling people off for things that you already do, to erase your own guilt at doing them, generally. getting mad about something because it seems cruel and thoughtless, then changing your mind when it turns out the person doing it has actually thought about it a lot and feels bad about it, and then siding with him (perhaps only for a few minutes) so as not to undo the tiny bit of good he tried to accomplish, does not seem like it fits the dictionary definition of hypocrisy. 2xEDIT: Also technically the jobs the rotd hands out are so the prematurely dead can, not just 'make a difference' but live a life and find peace. Mort has lived a long time, and most of that seems to have been spent sort of emptily haunting gunnerkrigg court, but then annie came along and mort talked to her and learned and got into trouble and tried and failed and been scared and been brave and played pranks and got pranked and gotten angry and saved a life and felt awkward around a pretty girl and helped school the court mediums, and now he's giving up his existence to help annie save someone else. So you know what? I think his work in the ROTD is done, and i think he's done a fantastic job. |
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Post by flowsthead on Apr 23, 2014 7:30:57 GMT
Annie's a bit of a hypocrite. She's young, so she has more time to hammer out her virtues, but this isn't a habit she should promote, no matter how noble it seems for a lingering ghost of a little boy. I must be forgetting something, but what part of this makes her a hypocrite? |
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Post by GK Sierra on Apr 23, 2014 8:05:33 GMT
Annie's a bit of a hypocrite. She's young, so she has more time to hammer out her virtues, but this isn't a habit she should promote, no matter how noble it seems for a lingering ghost of a little boy. I must be forgetting something, but what part of this makes her a hypocrite? The reality was that the ROTD kept Mort around on a pretense because his death was premature and Jones felt he had earned several more decades than he got as a living person. So Annie is telling a little white lie to maintain Mort's impression that he was vital and needed at the ROTD so he doesn't consider those extra years pointless. I would normally be kind of disappointed in Annie for lying, but there is nothing to be gained by the truth here, and when you put it in perspective, the ROTD is a pretty pointless, mundane establishment in the first place. I mean, it's not like ol' vampy was doing a more important "job" than Mort was. Just one final bump on the road to senseless oblivion. Also, some sick knucks from Kat. Well executed, Donlan. |
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Post by flowsthead on Apr 23, 2014 8:13:14 GMT
I must be forgetting something, but what part of this makes her a hypocrite? The reality was that the ROTD kept Mort around on a pretense because his death was premature and Jones felt he had earned several more decades than he got as a living person. So Annie is telling a little white lie to maintain Mort's impression that he was vital and needed at the ROTD so he doesn't consider those extra years pointless. I would normally be kind of disappointed in Annie for lying, but there is nothing to be gained by the truth here, and when you put it in perspective, the ROTD is a pretty pointless, mundane establishment in the first place. I mean, it's not like ol' vampy was doing a more important "job" than Mort was. Just one final bump on the road to senseless oblivion. Also, some sick knucks from Kat. Well executed, Donlan. Yeah, I got that, but lying in itself doesn't make someone a hypocrite. And there is a big difference between getting angry at ROTD for lying to Mort because the lie there is in the treatment, whereas Annie's lie is one of comfort. It's not hypocritical of her to lie to Mort unless the lie is to propagate his current position. But his position is changing, he's leaving, so the lie here is just one of social politeness. Calling Annie a hypocrite is to ignore the subtleties of the situation. |
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Post by sleepcircle on Apr 23, 2014 8:39:26 GMT
hypocrisy is by definition getting upset with other people for doing something, in order to relieve the guilt of personally doing the same thing.
how many of the people who are disappointed or upset with her lack of virtue—for telling a lie in order to comfort someone—have ever lied themselves?
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Post by sidhekin on Apr 23, 2014 8:58:09 GMT
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Post by eightyfour on Apr 23, 2014 9:13:10 GMT
So what else was Annie supposed to tell him? How about this: "I talked to the ROTD and they said you can bugger off already. They never needed you here in the first place and kept you from passing on for all these years for no good reason at all."
I think this is what they call a white lie.
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Post by bluevitriol on Apr 23, 2014 9:46:39 GMT
It actually fits, as a person who gets upset at others for doing what they have done have a "false assumption of an appearance of virtue" which they don't rightly have; in other words, hypocrisy is basically acting out against something you yourself have done while acting like you havent done that thing. Example: Many smoking parents tell their children not to smoke, thinking they are being smart, whereas, they are actually just hypocrits. The reasons behind hypocrisy are usually guilt (you take out your guilt on the target), pretense (directing attention to them instead of you), or deceit (trying to save face or reputation). EDIT: I don't think Annie is being hypocritical at all... the ROTD said his job really wasn't that important but they gave him a chance to leave his mark on the living world because he was unjustly killed. In Annies view HE DID leave a mark, he made FRIENDS, he taught Annie not to assume and be judgemental of friends (when she accused him of trying to trap her as a girlfriend), so you see, to Annie and the friends of Mort, Mort's time with them DID matter, and that is a job well done. |
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Post by flowsthead on Apr 23, 2014 10:45:58 GMT
Example: Many smoking parents tell their children not to smoke, thinking they are being smart, whereas, they are actually just hypocrites. Not to attack you or anything because I agree with your last point, but I do feel I should respond to this as it's a really common example. The parents are being hypocrites, but they aren't being "just hypocrites". One thing people often miss when talking about hypocrisy is that it is a state of being and has nothing to do with the things they are saying. The parents might still be right about telling their kids not to smoke; their argument isn't wrong just because they are hypocrites. One could even make an argument that they are coming at the problem from experience that their kids don't have which might lend their position a bit more credence. In other words, hypocrisy isn't a valid way to criticize an argument in most situation. It's more a criticism of the person, or sometimes just a statement of fact about them. |
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Post by zimmyzims on Apr 23, 2014 10:50:04 GMT
So what else was Annie supposed to tell him? How about this: "I talked to the ROTD and they said you can bugger off already. They never needed you here in the first place and kept you from passing on for all these years for no good reason at all." I think this is what they call a white lie. Yeah. Obviously, I was ironic about it. We all knew she was going to give Mort that same lie ROTD gave him, for his own sake. And that's all good and well. Could have been kind of crushing to Mort to hear the truth just when he has chosen to finally end his tenure at ROTD. Example: Many smoking parents tell their children not to smoke, thinking they are being smart, whereas, they are actually just hypocrites. Not to attack you or anything because I agree with your last point, but I do feel I should respond to this as it's a really common example. The parents are being hypocrites, but they aren't being "just hypocrites". One thing people often miss when talking about hypocrisy is that it is a state of being and has nothing to do with the things they are saying. The parents might still be right about telling their kids not to smoke; their argument isn't wrong just because they are hypocrites. One could even make an argument that they are coming at the problem from experience that their kids don't have which might lend their position a bit more credence. In other words, hypocrisy isn't a valid way to criticize an argument in most situation. It's more a criticism of the person, or sometimes just a statement of fact about them. I agree with this absolutely. Nothing to add, very well said. |
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Post by Angry Individual on Apr 23, 2014 10:56:13 GMT
For some reason this felt like a really hard punch in the gut.
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Post by ctso74 on Apr 23, 2014 13:25:55 GMT
I believe context and intent are important in judging her actions.
As for 'white lies' in general, a friend of mine used to say, "The world isn't 'black and white' but 'damn dirty grey'". He also used to say, "BS is the lubrication to the gears of life", but that always made a unfortunate sound effect in my head. So, I'm going to go with, she's being 'damn dirty grey', just like the rest of us.
I'm real curious as to what comes next.
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QuotePilgrim
Full Member
Behind my door, there are twelve other doors.
Posts: 142
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Post by QuotePilgrim on Apr 23, 2014 14:09:00 GMT
Annie's a bit of a hypocrite. She's young, so she has more time to hammer out her virtues, but this isn't a habit she should promote, no matter how noble it seems for a lingering ghost of a little boy. I must be forgetting something, but what part of this makes her a hypocrite? Well, the fact that she got mad at the vampire guy for lying to Mort, then did the exact same thing. By getting mad at him for lying, she’s implying that she’d never do such thing. By doing so, she’s being a hypocrite. |
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gary
Full Member
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Post by gary on Apr 23, 2014 14:41:22 GMT
I must be forgetting something, but what part of this makes her a hypocrite? Well, the fact that she got mad at the vampire guy for lying to Mort, then did the exact same thing. By getting mad at him for lying, she’s implying that she’d never do such thing. By doing so, she’s being a hypocrite. But she wasn't mad at him for lying, is the point. She was mad at him for not taking care of mort and for making a joke about his ignorance. Once she realised he had decent intentions, and wasn't trying to hurt Mort, she had no problem with him or his lies. For her to be a hypocrite, she'd have to treat mort with the contempt she thought count dad had when she was mad at him and she hasn't, her lie here is a very loving and well intentioned one which is exactly the kind of lie she doesn't get mad about. |
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Shire
Junior Member
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Post by Shire on Apr 23, 2014 14:51:44 GMT
If changing your mind is hypocritical, then I don't want to be hypercritical!
...
That is the opposite, right? It should be...
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Post by fish on Apr 23, 2014 15:21:08 GMT
I wonder what that blue shine in the background of the second and last panel is. Is that what the TV looks like through ether-vision?
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QuotePilgrim
Full Member
Behind my door, there are twelve other doors.
Posts: 142
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Post by QuotePilgrim on Apr 23, 2014 15:22:09 GMT
Well, the fact that she got mad at the vampire guy for lying to Mort, then did the exact same thing. By getting mad at him for lying, she’s implying that she’d never do such thing. By doing so, she’s being a hypocrite. But she wasn't mad at him for lying, is the point. That depends highly on interpretation. The way I see it, the fact he was lying was at least part of the reason she got mad. I don’t really care, though. I was just explaining the reasoning that made some people think Annie’s being a hypocrite. If changing your mind is hypocritical, then I don't want to be hypercritical! No one’s claiming that changing your mind is hypocritical. At least, I know that I am not. Anyway, hypocrisy is not really a bad thing though. As pointed out before, a smoking parent that tells their children smoking’s bad is hypocritical. But is that parent wrong? Are they doing a bad thing? I don’t think so. |
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Post by philman on Apr 23, 2014 15:49:42 GMT
"BS is the lubrication to the gears of life", but that always made a unfortunate sound effect in my head. *squish squish squish* hmm yeah... I think BS is a bit too sticky to work well as a lubricant anyway. |
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Post by aaroncampbell on Apr 23, 2014 15:53:04 GMT
I propose we ditch the whole hypocrisy discussion as it's mostly devolved into semantics and is distracting from discussing the comic. (I've rambled off on rabbit trails plenty of times myself so I'm not trying to cast judgment or make anyone feel guilty; I just want to get back on subject.) I wonder what that blue shine in the background of the second and last panel is. Is that what the TV looks like through ether-vision? Possibly, but I don't think so. They turned off the TV after the last viewing, so presumably whatever analogues it has in the etheric world would also be in a dormant and non-glowing state. Whatever we're seeing in panel 2 in today's page is something through an archway. It could be the light from the windows on this page, though they're pretty high for that. A better guess I think is the outside area that Annie and Ankou went to here; the bluish color is a closer match too. |
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Post by crater on Apr 23, 2014 16:58:48 GMT
this is kinda starting to get grimdark......
Ann is effectively about to help euthanize Mort. He doesn't know anything about the reality of his situation yet she feels it's OK to end his existence just because he is getting bored of being a ghost.
Look how happy he is talking with Kat! this is sick!
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Post by oglokoog on Apr 23, 2014 17:31:21 GMT
Some of us are the scarecrow friend.
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Post by smurfton on Apr 23, 2014 18:18:37 GMT
On the subject of hypocrisy, Antimony is a hypocrite (or something similar). Maybe not in this instance, but she was definitely being hypocritical as early as A Week for Kat. The ring in the background could be the tv; the middle isn't glowing, after all. |
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Post by hifranc on Apr 23, 2014 19:26:22 GMT
I'm surprised at turn of the discussion. My feeling on seeing the page was that Annie's growing up into a kind young woman. A friend is doing something difficult and she's responding with compassion and love.
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