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Post by Intelligence on Apr 23, 2014 19:33:57 GMT
"They said you're still needed."
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Post by philman on Apr 23, 2014 20:26:51 GMT
this is kinda starting to get grimdark...... Ann is effectively about to help euthanize Mort. He doesn't know anything about the reality of his situation yet she feels it's OK to end his existence just because he is getting bored of being a ghost. Look how happy he is talking with Kat! this is sick! Can you euthenise someone who is already dead? Mort is already dead, if he wanted he could stay a ghost forever, but he doesn't, he wants to move on. What's wrong with that? Is it more caring to tell a white lie and let Mort know his 'job' was pointless and they ROTD only gave it to him to keep him occupied, or let him think he did a really good job and go into the ether happy? |
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Post by sleepcircle on Apr 23, 2014 20:51:36 GMT
I'm surprised at turn of the discussion. My feeling on seeing the page was that Annie's growing up into a kind young woman. A friend is doing something difficult and she's responding with compassion and love. me too. i dont get people sometimes. anyway i think this is less about the semantics of the word hypocrisy and more about the semantics of the word 'definition'. i was going off the psychological reasons most people do it. so i guess technically i cant begin my sentence with 'webster's dictionary defines hypocrisy as'. i mean it was sloppy of me, sure, and bad debating form, but it wasn't me intentionally twisting the truth. i dont care about this suddenly |
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Post by keef on Apr 23, 2014 21:04:41 GMT
So far Annie has lied, cheated, stolen, abused her power over Rey and humiliated him, thrown people around and set them on fire. Apart from that she is a very nice girl. Yes it is a bit surprising after her outburst against Nosferatu, but she probably excepted his explanation. I wouldn't call it hypocrisy, and I can accept her feeling the boy is better of not knowing. Some of us are the scarecrow friend. I know the feeling.. |
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Pig_catapult
Full Member
Keeper of the Devilkitty
Posts: 171
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Post by Pig_catapult on Apr 23, 2014 21:46:02 GMT
Willing to bet that some of the advice Ankou gave her re: Guide stuff was in regards to part of their job being to NOT traumatise people right before guiding them into the Ether.
(Disclaiming that I'm still on the side of it being morally better to let people continue to believe a comforting lie if the truth is a needlessly painful one. Minimising pain > Brutally honest tactlessness.)
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Post by Fhqwhgads on Apr 23, 2014 21:52:00 GMT
"They said you're still needed." oh wow that goes perfectly with your avatar |
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Post by Intelligence on Apr 23, 2014 22:28:22 GMT
"They said you're still needed." oh wow that goes perfectly with your avatar How so???
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Post by Per on Apr 23, 2014 22:41:43 GMT
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Post by crater on Apr 24, 2014 0:24:44 GMT
this is kinda starting to get grimdark...... Ann is effectively about to help euthanize Mort. He doesn't know anything about the reality of his situation yet she feels it's OK to end his existence just because he is getting bored of being a ghost. Look how happy he is talking with Kat! this is sick! Can you euthenise someone who is already dead? Mort is already dead, if he wanted he could stay a ghost forever, but he doesn't, he wants to move on. What's wrong with that? Is it more caring to tell a white lie and let Mort know his 'job' was pointless and they ROTD only gave it to him to keep him occupied, or let him think he did a really good job and go into the ether happy? what I'm saying is it would be immoral to euthenize someone who doesn't understand the reality of his situation. it's like euthenizing a person who thinks he has a terminal form of cancer when he really doesn't. who knows how Mort would take the notion that his job was meaningless and he has basically been forgotten about, but it should be his right to know the truth regardless. |
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Post by King Mir on Apr 24, 2014 5:32:29 GMT
Can you euthenise someone who is already dead? Mort is already dead, if he wanted he could stay a ghost forever, but he doesn't, he wants to move on. What's wrong with that? Is it more caring to tell a white lie and let Mort know his 'job' was pointless and they ROTD only gave it to him to keep him occupied, or let him think he did a really good job and go into the ether happy? what I'm saying is it would be immoral to euthenize someone who doesn't understand the reality of his situation. it's like euthenizing a person who thinks he has a terminal form of cancer when he really doesn't. who knows how Mort would take the notion that his job was meaningless and he has basically been forgotten about, but it should be his right to know the truth regardless. But his choice to move on isn't based on how good of a job he's been doing. It's based on not wanting to be a child forever. Nothing Annie's learned changes Mort's reasons. There's a certain moral quandary about euthanasia that comes up from Annie being a psychopomp in the first place, but It's not her lie that's the problem there. |
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Post by requiemarc on Apr 24, 2014 16:00:40 GMT
I'm going to try and analyze a few of the themes I've seen floating around in the discussion thus far.
On Annie's taking Mort into the ether as a form of misunderstood euthanasia; I translated this situation completely differently I have to say. Mort has been around for a long time, and I think in that time he's put plenty of thought into just what it might mean to "pass on". I have no doubt that senseless oblivion has been one of those options. Yet despite that chance (as Mort does not know for certain and, arguably, neither does Annie) Mort himself still wants Annie to do this for him. I don't think he misunderstands what's happening at all nor what it could mean.
On another note, unless my memory of the comic is failing me (and it very well may be) I don't think we as readers have a solid idea of what it means to be taken into the ether either. We have been told by certain characters that it is equitable to oblivion, but have no objective source to verify that claim. It could very well just be those character's subjective viewpoints.
On Annie's "lie" and the morality of truth versus deception; I'll have to edit this in later. I would like to organize my thoughts some more before posting completely.
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Post by eyemyself on Apr 24, 2014 23:03:23 GMT
I believe context and intent are important in judging her actions. As for 'white lies' in general, a friend of mine used to say, "The world isn't 'black and white' but 'damn dirty grey'". He also used to say, "BS is the lubrication to the gears of life", but that always made a unfortunate sound effect in my head. So, I'm going to go with, she's being 'damn dirty grey', just like the rest of us. I've always been partial to "BS makes the flowers grow, and that's beautiful." |
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Post by warrl on Apr 25, 2014 1:40:52 GMT
I am not even certain Annie lied. Sure, the RotD caseworker forgot about Mort - but, having been reminded, maybe he IS proud of the lad. Nothing has been said to indicate otherwise.
And earlier... Caseworker laughed about Mort's situation, and Annie thought it was "what a joke we played on him!" Naturally she was angry. After more conversation it became apparent (at least to me and apparently to Annie) that the laughter was more "oh <bleep>, we messed up, how embarrassing". Such laughter is not cause for anger (although the mess-up may be).
(Aside: I was once involved in a production of Jesus Christ Superstar. In one showing "Jesus" and "Judas", in their big argument scene, were messing up line after line after line. "Jesus" let out a sarcastic laugh - really over how badly they both were screwing up after so many hours of rehearsal, he confessed later - and it saved the scene. It turned a serious clusterfark into a very plausible revision of the dialog. And a couple lines later they both got back on track.)
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Post by zimmyzims on Apr 25, 2014 6:46:05 GMT
this is kinda starting to get grimdark...... Ann is effectively about to help euthanize Mort. He doesn't know anything about the reality of his situation yet she feels it's OK to end his existence just because he is getting bored of being a ghost. Look how happy he is talking with Kat! this is sick! Can you euthenise someone who is already dead? Mort is already dead, if he wanted he could stay a ghost forever, but he doesn't, he wants to move on. What's wrong with that? Is it more caring to tell a white lie and let Mort know his 'job' was pointless and they ROTD only gave it to him to keep him occupied, or let him think he did a really good job and go into the ether happy? Agreed with this. What good would it do to tell Mort now that what he's been doing his whole afterlife has been absolutely pointless? It would not change the situation why he wants to pass to ether. What it would change is his experience of his afterlife in his last moments of it. That would be horribly cruel. And would he want to stay more if the reason that has kept him there was revealed to be no reason at all? Doubt it. Stay or not, he would get miserable. |
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