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Post by Daedalus on Mar 8, 2014 14:41:44 GMT
I've been thinking a bit about Betty's significance here. Bethany is a region in Palestine where the Biblical Lazarus lived, died, and was resurrected. Betty's blue eyes and red jacket link her to Annie visually; as though in a resurrection of memory, familiar details thereby appear to surface from entirely new, and otherwise foreign, combinations. Perhaps this poses a clue as to how the transformation of the dead works in the Ether: their minds and beliefs are likewise recombined into mythical creatures. Thus, a being such as Coyote is really a continuation of individual fantasies; which means that while the Ether keeps Coyote alive, in turn, he keeps small parts of the dead in the Ether alive. It's quite a comforting thought. *claps* Well done, you win the reading-the-most-into-insignificant-characters prize for today! Regardless, the encompassing theory is very interesting. I would say to put it into wildspec, but no one seriously debates things in that thread :/
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Post by Deleted on Mar 8, 2014 16:17:23 GMT
It seems like quite a stretch to read that much into a one-shot appearance, but consider this:
a) For some reason, blue eyes seem to occur very rarely at all in this comic. I cannot recall anyone with blue eyes except for Annie and Surma.
b) The jacket has quite a similar colour to Annie's hair, though a bit desaturated. Very few people wear red in this comic, strangely enough.
c) This is presumably a chapter about life, death, and metempsychosis, or whatever happens in the Ether. The transformative nature of death in this comic, by ways of the Ether, has already been established (according to the Moddey Dhoo, who should know it, and a few others). Different transformations occur when Coyote's tooth cuts Robot in half and Shadow 2 from the floor: contrary to what sharp blades tend to do, this doesn't cause their destruction; they acquire new bodies instead.
d) Mort clearly remembers his friends from that day, right down to the clothes and haircuts, whereas all the buildings are vague, uniform shapes; and the background is basically a plain grey skybox. If he remembers them that well, and taking all of the above into consideration, I think it's quite plausible that Annie should remind him of Betty, and also that this resemblance holds some symbolic significance outside of the personal scope.
You can even leave out the »Bethany« allusion, which does stand on shaky feet, as I'll admit at once. Then again, the Hebrew for »Bethany« transliterates as »beyt 'anī«, provided that I'm not totally wrong there because I know next to no Hebrew and can barely read the Aleph-Bet.
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Post by warrl on Mar 8, 2014 16:59:57 GMT
What made you think that I thought WWII began with Pearl Harbor? I am aware that there were events that led up to the war in 1939. Nothing whatsoever made me think that. Whatever made you think I was referring specifically to you, I apologize for miswording it.
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Post by Covalent on Mar 8, 2014 17:48:49 GMT
Wait, who's Betty?
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Post by Señor Goose on Mar 8, 2014 19:41:40 GMT
Who are those people? Where am I? How did I get here?
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Post by zbeeblebrox on Mar 8, 2014 20:33:50 GMT
When Tom sees ships in the harbor, he likes to burn them before they even get a chance to set sail.
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Post by smjjames on Mar 9, 2014 1:38:54 GMT
What made you think that I thought WWII began with Pearl Harbor? I am aware that there were events that led up to the war in 1939. Nothing whatsoever made me think that. Whatever made you think I was referring specifically to you, I apologize for miswording it. Somehow seemed like it was aimed at me for some reason, but okay and apology accepted @korba: Morty vaguely remembering the surroundings could be that it wasn't anyplace special, or maybe the building he is at is important but the surroundings aren't that important.
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Post by thedoctor on Mar 9, 2014 9:49:17 GMT
Who are those people? Where am I? How did I get here? More importantly, where are my pants?
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Post by philman on Mar 9, 2014 9:51:34 GMT
d) Mort clearly remembers his friends from that day, right down to the clothes and haircuts, whereas all the buildings are vague, uniform shapes; and the background is basically a plain grey skybox. If he remembers them that well, and taking all of the above into consideration, I think it's quite plausible that Annie should remind him of Betty, and also that this resemblance holds some symbolic significance outside of the personal scope. Isn't that just how Tom draws outdoor scenes with lots of buildings? See: almost any outdoor scene with lots of buildings. And there are tens of thousands of streets in England with rows upon rows of identical "terraced" brick houses, it's how we built then in Victorian times!
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Post by thedoctor on Mar 9, 2014 10:00:14 GMT
I got to wondering about the slang term 'jerry' (which I had correctly guessed referred to Germans), checked on wikipedia and while it origionates in WWI, it didn't really come into common usage until WWII. So, I'm guessing it links more strongly to WWII. Can anybody place a date on the car? Looks like it could be from the 1930s. Well, a history note... a typical American who has a clue about WWII thinks it started with the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor in December 1941. Really, it didn't even become a world war on that date. Historians generally regard the war as beginning with the German attack on Poland on September 1, 1939. By the end of September of 1939 there was a declaration of war against Germany from countries on every continent except South America. (That continent became more heavily involved after the Pearl Harbor attack.) And Britain began evacuations as a precaution against German air raids almost immediately after declaring war. But a lot of related stuff happened even before then. Japan's invasion of China began in 1931; they also had (mostly lost) a minor war with the Soviet Union in 1939 and and thus turned their attention to the Pacific islands which increased stress on their relations with, particularly, the US and the British Empire. Early in 1939 they blockaded some British holdings in China. Also, Italy attacked Ethiopia in 1935 and Albania in early 1939; Germany annexed Austria and chewed up Czechoslovakia in 1938. (The latter event began with Germany seizing the portion of the country that contained a large share of its industry and most of its military defenses, with the full consent of the British and French while the Czechoslovak government was not invited to send a representative to the conference on the partitioning of their country - this was the inspiration for Chamberlain's infamous "peace in our time" declaration.) A typical American MIGHT assume that the war started in 1941. A "typical American who has a clue about WWII" knows that ONLY US involvement started in December of 1941. I know Americans in general have a reputation for bad history, but I'd appreciate it if you didn't put even the intelligent ones into that category.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 9, 2014 12:09:54 GMT
@korba: Morty vaguely remembering the surroundings could be that it wasn't anyplace special, or maybe the building he is at is important but the surroundings aren't that important. Yes, of course, which would indicate that he remembers what's special to him. d) Mort clearly remembers his friends from that day, right down to the clothes and haircuts, whereas all the buildings are vague, uniform shapes; and the background is basically a plain grey skybox. If he remembers them that well, and taking all of the above into consideration, I think it's quite plausible that Annie should remind him of Betty, and also that this resemblance holds some symbolic significance outside of the personal scope. Isn't that just how Tom draws outdoor scenes with lots of buildings? See: almost any outdoor scene with lots of buildings. And there are tens of thousands of streets in England with rows upon rows of identical "terraced" brick houses, it's how we built then in Victorian times! The backgrounds are usually more detailed and varied than what's seen in today's page. They just never looked as diffuse to me. The grey fog chipping away at their contures is also unusual. gunnerkrigg.com/?p=446gunnerkrigg.com/?p=634gunnerkrigg.com/?p=635 — perhaps the most appropriate comparison here gunnerkrigg.com/?p=905gunnerkrigg.com/?p=1208 — the third panel shows some identical houses in a row.
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Post by warrl on Mar 9, 2014 15:29:35 GMT
A typical American MIGHT assume that the war started in 1941. A "typical American who has a clue about WWII" knows that ONLY US involvement started in December of 1941. I know Americans in general have a reputation for bad history, but I'd appreciate it if you didn't put even the intelligent ones into that category. Sorry, any more I'm pretty sure the typical American can't place the Pearl Harbor attack in time with an accuracy of plus-or-minus ten years. Getting that right requires A clue. Some of us have several clues.
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Post by The Anarch on Mar 9, 2014 17:31:02 GMT
The typical American knows perfectly well that World War the Second was going on long before Pearl Harbor.
They know this because if it had been otherwise, they couldn't lord it over all of y'all that we swooped in like the cavalry and saved your asses. U! S! A! U! S! A! U! S! A!
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Post by Señor Goose on Mar 10, 2014 3:10:28 GMT
A typical American MIGHT assume that the war started in 1941. A "typical American who has a clue about WWII" knows that ONLY US involvement started in December of 1941. I know Americans in general have a reputation for bad history, but I'd appreciate it if you didn't put even the intelligent ones into that category. Sorry, any more I'm pretty sure the typical American can't place the Pearl Harbor attack in time with an accuracy of plus-or-minus ten years. Getting that right requires A clue. Some of us have several clues. Eh, to be fair it's not like America was perfectly neutral for the years before 1941. First we claimed 'absolute neutrality', then proceeded to send supplies and money to the UK and France, then we claimed 'partial neutrality' and sent armed vessels to escort allied merchant ships, then we claimed 'not neutral, but please don't bomb us'. It wasn't until December of 1941 that we actually declared war on anybody.
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Post by thedoctor on Mar 11, 2014 9:17:41 GMT
Sorry, any more I'm pretty sure the typical American can't place the Pearl Harbor attack in time with an accuracy of plus-or-minus ten years. Getting that right requires A clue. Some of us have several clues. Eh, to be fair it's not like America was perfectly neutral for the years before 1941. First we claimed 'absolute neutrality', then proceeded to send supplies and money to the UK and France, then we claimed 'partial neutrality' and sent armed vessels to escort allied merchant ships, then we claimed 'not neutral, but please don't bomb us'. It wasn't until December of 1941 that we actually declared war on anybody. "Not neutral, but please don't bomb us;" I like that description a lot. A republic (or a democracy) is a weird thing. It takes a long time to get settled on anything, but when it does, WATCH OUT!
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Post by Daedalus on Mar 12, 2014 3:53:04 GMT
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Post by thedoctor on Mar 12, 2014 4:11:21 GMT
I don't really like that quote (Winston Churchill, I believe?). However, I'd say that democracy on average works out better than other forms of government, but a good monarch is better than your average democracy. It's just that it's difficult to guarantee a good monarch, and a bad monarch is a good deal worse than democracy. I guess it's the low-risk form of government. A gambler will go for monarchy!
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Post by Daedalus on Mar 12, 2014 5:21:40 GMT
I don't really like that quote (Winston Churchill, I believe?). However, I'd say that democracy on average works out better than other forms of government, but a good monarch is better than your average democracy. It's just that it's difficult to guarantee a good monarch, and a bad monarch is a good deal worse than democracy. I guess it's the low-risk form of government. A gambler will go for monarchy! An effective gambler goes for the low-risk option, when the negative result of a 'loss' is too great (or when the expected value is more negative, I guess). This coming from an event today when I had to teach a bunch of people to card count. Lots of fun, by the way. I'm rather good at it. And, interestingly enough, this is the third post in sequence where I've responded to you quoting me
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