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Post by sparky on Jul 27, 2012 8:32:40 GMT
Beautifully terrifying.
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Post by rafk on Jul 27, 2012 8:34:02 GMT
Out-there speculation: Coyote loves human beings because they have taught him how to lie, and this is the coming-out party for that particular ability.
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Post by thetime on Jul 27, 2012 9:04:51 GMT
Yeah, same here. the awesomeness of this page just overcame my laziness. Impressive. I think he's telling the true - if he do not exist physically buy still able to interact with the physical world normally, this would've been a really lame secret. My guess - Clap your hands if you believe. And by that I mean - he can't exist without humans telling stories about him.
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Post by stephenls on Jul 27, 2012 9:21:23 GMT
So...
...he's a trick and a lie. Everything about him is a trick.
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Post by stephenls on Jul 27, 2012 9:24:06 GMT
The real question here isn't "What does this mean?" It's "What will the fallout be of Annie learning it?" Ysengrin does not look happy, and unhappy Ysengrin is not safe to be around especially if the person you thought was holding him in check doesn't actually exist.
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Post by SpitefulFox on Jul 27, 2012 9:44:06 GMT
The red and blue pattern of unraveled etheric Coyote reminds me of the Donlans' computer program to bind Reynardine. What if Coyote is actually just an AI construct created by the court to keep Ysengrin or even the entire woods in check? They'd program it to love humans and base it off of a Native American myth. Being painfully aware of his own false existence, he'd ask for stories of the character he's supposed to be in order to feel more "real". As part of this strange program, Ysengrin is impeccably loyal to "Coyote" in spite of all the abuse and immaturity because he literally can't help himself.
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Post by cu on Jul 27, 2012 9:51:00 GMT
Dude! I totally didn't see this coming. It turns out Coyote is Ysengrim's clever psychic-etheric projection aimed to deceive everyone with some kind of good cop, bad cop shtick. Machiavellian! The apparent toady is, after all, the all-fooling mastermind. Chuckles rulz!
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Post by eightyfour on Jul 27, 2012 9:54:56 GMT
There's this thing about any deity only being given their status as a deity by the people believing in it. A god that no one believes in anymore is not a god, it ceases to exist.
In the modern ages people are more and more moving away from indigenous "religions" (if you can call it that in Coyote's case), making him weaker and weaker.
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Post by La Goon on Jul 27, 2012 10:11:08 GMT
The real question here isn't "What does this mean?" It's "What will the fallout be of Annie learning it?" Ysengrin does not look happy, and unhappy Ysengrin is not safe to be around especially if the person you thought was holding him in check doesn't actually exist. Well, if I'm getting this right it means that you can effectively destroy Coyote by not thinking of him. For the court to actually use this, they'd probably have to find a method to erase the memory from everyone's mind. Perhaps Ysengrin finds it likely that they are both capable and willing to do this, while Coyote is confident enough that they aren't - or perhaps he just likes taking crazy risks.
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Post by Serenissima on Jul 27, 2012 10:15:18 GMT
The effect of the text being put in that way makes it much more dissonant and scary, somehow.
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marv
New Member
Posts: 18
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Post by marv on Jul 27, 2012 10:16:22 GMT
or even something insane like Coyote being nothing more than a collective idea the Court unconsciously creates. He did say that he only arrived in the woods after the Court was founded...
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Post by biggerj on Jul 27, 2012 10:22:33 GMT
I'm the Great Coyote, baby; I've got tricks I'll do anything for kicks I'm the Great Coyote, baby; I don't cheat Rules change beneath my feet Too bad for sainthood, too good for sin There's no fight or competition that I couldn't win I'm the Great Coyote, baby; stories all say I win the day!
I'm older than the sun and yet as fresh as morning dew My jaws so strong, my teeth so sharp there's nothing they cannot hew
I'm the Great Coyote, I am sure that you have heard From man or bird I'm the Great Coyote, legend older than you can know From head to toe I have never failed, and I can do no wrong Great and mighty figure told of in uncountable songs
I'm the Great Coyote, baby; here comes the twist...
I DON'T EXIST!
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Post by Max on Jul 27, 2012 10:34:12 GMT
Y'all are focusing on the wrong part of this page and ignoring the real revelation:
He's kind of a jerk!!!
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Post by adannor on Jul 27, 2012 11:01:46 GMT
<=My reaction :V
(Also registered just for that. Hi guys XD)
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Earin
Full Member
Posts: 115
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Post by Earin on Jul 27, 2012 11:03:09 GMT
The real question here isn't "What does this mean?" It's "What will the fallout be of Annie learning it?" Ysengrin does not look happy, and unhappy Ysengrin is not safe to be around especially if the person you thought was holding him in check doesn't actually exist. Well, if I'm getting this right it means that you can effectively destroy Coyote by not thinking of him. For the court to actually use this, they'd probably have to find a method to erase the memory from everyone's mind. Perhaps Ysengrin finds it likely that they are both capable and willing to do this, while Coyote is confident enough that they aren't - or perhaps he just likes taking crazy risks. It would also mean that you can change parts of him by thinking about him differently. And I can just imagine Coyote wanting to tell people to find out what they want to change him into.
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pasko
Full Member
Objection!
Posts: 224
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Post by pasko on Jul 27, 2012 11:17:27 GMT
In the next page, we will see Annie and Big Y in the meadow, alone, talking as if nothing happened. There is no Coyote.
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Post by legion on Jul 27, 2012 11:49:00 GMT
That is not creepy at all Coyote.
"Ysengrin is drawing closer to the brink of insanity."
Ysengrin, really?
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Post by TBeholder on Jul 27, 2012 12:01:36 GMT
On a more practical note, I suggest skipping the traditional thread title scheme to avoid spoilers. How exactly you imagine the procedure (and purpose) of "avoiding spoilers" on the board which exists for discussing the comic? I can't make head or tail of this concept on my own. So does he not exist in the physical sense (his "body" is manifested through sheer etheric force or something along that line) or is he just some kind of delusion that every living thing has? See? He said something so "big" that it's effectively meaningless. ;D To me it seems pretty clear [...] ...or did I miss something? You missed that "it seems pretty clear" for almost everyone, except the specific thing that is clear is almost never the same? "Ysengrin is drawing closer to the brink of insanity." Ysengrin, really? Obviously.
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Post by adannor on Jul 27, 2012 12:08:14 GMT
Somebody may visit the forum before checking for the comic on the main site. Though with the rigid schedule, not so likely and neither it is so necessary
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notacat
Full Member
That's not me, that's my late cat Mimi: I'm not nearly so cute
Posts: 188
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Post by notacat on Jul 27, 2012 12:08:53 GMT
I'm the Great Coyote, baby; here comes the twist... I DON'T EXIST!Nice one...
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Post by trailsend on Jul 27, 2012 12:12:18 GMT
It makes sense, really.
Coyote is a story. Or many stories, really, told by many people for a really long time. Stories like that become very powerful. (It could cut the very earth!)
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yhbc
Junior Member
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Post by yhbc on Jul 27, 2012 12:35:15 GMT
I'm pretty sure the Great Secret is something along the lines of "we only exist as long as you keep believing in us" but I expect Tom to present it in a fresher, more interesting way. These non-existent cookies are tasting pretty good about now.
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Post by cronkite on Jul 27, 2012 12:47:00 GMT
Is the imagery not relevant here? He appears to be turning into a skeleton. Could that mean that Coyote's saying he's dead somehow?
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Post by dismalscientist on Jul 27, 2012 13:24:03 GMT
Coyote is just so awesome and all-powerful he has discovered that he's part of an online comic! To be honest, I briefly considered this when I saw the comic. It’d fit with Coyote’s (apparent?) breaking of the fourth wall in the prior update. But I’m going to throw my lot in with those who interpret Coyote as meaning that he was created, and continues to exist, only insofar as real beings believe in him. This isn’t a new idea by any means; a prominent recent exploration in fiction is Gaiman’s American Gods. This’d explain why Coyote loves humans: those imaginative sumbitches created someone as awesome as he is! And it might explain why Ysengrin hates them, if he feels abandoned by them (for instance). Total hijack, but that’s not really what the term “negative theology” generally means. Negative theology isn’t about giving meaning to the negation of statements such as “God is good” but, rather, about describing God in terms of what genuinely — purportedly! — cannot be said about him. That is, a classical theologian might attempt to demonstrate God’s goodness by showing that the statement “God is not good” leads to a contradiction. To bring it back around to the comic, a major theme in classical theology involves the universe being sustained in existence at every moment by God. I think we’re seeing a tidy reversal of that: a God being sustained in existence by (inhabitants of) the universe.
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Post by biggerj on Jul 27, 2012 13:29:11 GMT
I'm pretty sure the Great Secret is something along the lines of "we only exist as long as you keep believing in us" but I expect Tom to present it in a fresher, more interesting way. I hope he will for his sake, or Terry Prachett will hunt him down and end him. Is the imagery not relevant here? He appears to be turning into a skeleton. Could that mean that Coyote's saying he's dead somehow? He's literally deconstructing himself.
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Post by Stately Buff-Cookie on Jul 27, 2012 13:37:54 GMT
One thing about the whole belief makes the being real deal.
Realizing a fact logically and internalizing it are different things. Coyote tells you he doesn't exist. Lets say he tells everyone this. He wouldn't wink out of existence because everyone suddenly knows. He's telling you himself he does not exist. Do you think you could truly make yourself believe this with every ounce of yourself when he's RIGHT THERE?
If you could change the color of the sky by belief, would you really be capable of carrying that out? You could tell yourself the sky is purple all you want, but you can't make yourself believe it. You see the sky right there, and it's blue. That's a hard thing to overcome.
As an old legend, Coyote would be very stable. The 'facts' in known memory are there and established. You can't just go changing it without people being very aware of your effort to do that. Any change would have to take place over an achingly long period of time... at best.
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Post by darlos9d on Jul 27, 2012 13:49:20 GMT
You cannot grasp the true form of Coyote's attack!
... but yeah, as crazily one-winged-angel as Coyote is looking here, I'd have to say this is a complete non-reveal in that it means nothing, as evidenced by the fact that all we're doing is speculating wildly in a thousand different directions.
I really hope this gets properly expanded upon next week, or else it won't have any actual impact whatsoever. Furthermore, this story kinda needs to move away from introducing more vague mysteries and actually start explaining some key things. As much as I like this comic, it can't go on forever.
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Post by jasmijn on Jul 27, 2012 13:51:25 GMT
That is a great secret. I mean, wow.
(My guess: Coyote is actually an illusion operated by Jones, who pores all her emotion in simulating Coyote, which is why she is like that. It's all part of a big plan, which I haven't figured out yet.)
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Post by buzzybuzz on Jul 27, 2012 13:54:28 GMT
I'm taking this moment to go: What. [glow=red,2,300]Whaat!?[/glow] I didn't expect this! Also as said, the art is brilliant on this page. Not to be boring, but I think he just means he doesn't exist in the same sense that physical beings exist. Kind of like he's a totally etheric being that just can interact with the physical world? That's what I'm guessin', anyway. This is a good theory, I also like the one being mentioned his "existence" is based on people believing in him. Man we have to wait till Monday, why do you do this to us Tom Nah, cliffhangers make a story all the more awesome, when done well. And Tom does very good cliffhangers. (also I'll try to post more oops, I just prefer to lurk and read discussions every update....)
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Post by stephen on Jul 27, 2012 14:33:13 GMT
In the next page, we will see Annie and Big Y in the meadow, alone, talking as if nothing happened. Oh man, that would be the absolute best thing. Just go on with more of Gunnerkrigg Court without any further mention of Coyote. It would probably contradict what Tom actually has planned, meaning the story can't actually work that way... but that twist right then would be my favorite, just for the pure surrealism.
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