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Post by negativeproximity on Jun 7, 2012 18:14:42 GMT
I do think I agree with the thought that Antimony wanted Jack to like her. She was at least insulted that she lost to Zimmy.
We can likely equate what she does while wearing the mask to lying. She's hiding her true thoughts and feelings. That, or in dream state we see/hear her true thoughts and feelings, but we can see her wearing the mask to show that it's something she normally hides from people.
She didn't know how she felt about jack, and probably still doesn't. But when she found out she lost to Zimmy of all people, she was probably a bit insulted. Then after sitting and talking with Jack a little bit, realized she really does like him.
This had a profound and deep rooted effect on her psyche, which is why everyone's attacking Zimmy now, as Zimmy was the source of the problem she had with Jack. I don't think she's aware that Zimmy is actually present, just reacting to the concept of Zimmy.
If that makes sense.
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Post by TBeholder on Jun 7, 2012 18:21:06 GMT
Gamma is more important than the world to her, and Zimmy seems just as important to Gamma too. So I doubt they'll be splitting up... ever really. Hence, another thing imaginaryfriend said earlier. Or, if you prefer, in a more graphical form... Yes, we already discussed this one into exhaustion too. I do think I agree with the thought that Antimony wanted Jack to like her. She was at least insulted that she lost to Zimmy. More likely, bewildered.
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Post by Lightice on Jun 7, 2012 19:40:40 GMT
But romantically, I'm not sure about that. It's a different kind of love I think. It's just the closest thing you can describe their relationship with. The whole codependency and jealousy angles, combined with being so close as to literally read one another's thoughts; romantic relationship is simply the best way to describe the thing, even though there's probably nothing physical going on.
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Post by GK Sierra on Jun 7, 2012 23:27:05 GMT
But romantically, I'm not sure about that. It's a different kind of love I think. It's just the closest thing you can describe their relationship with. The whole codependency and jealousy angles, combined with being so close as to literally read one another's thoughts; romantic relationship is simply the best way to describe the thing, even though there's probably nothing physical going on. Precisely what I was thinking. Romance can exist independent of the physical aspect (kinda sad that that even needs saying, but there it is). As Tom likes to repeat to curious passers-by on his Formspring: "That's really not what this comic is about."
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Post by Marnath on Jun 8, 2012 3:15:11 GMT
It's just the closest thing you can describe their relationship with. The whole codependency and jealousy angles, combined with being so close as to literally read one another's thoughts; romantic relationship is simply the best way to describe the thing, even though there's probably nothing physical going on. Precisely what I was thinking. Romance can exist independent of the physical aspect (kinda sad that that even needs saying, but there it is). As Tom likes to repeat to curious passers-by on his Formspring: "That's really not what this comic is about." I'm confused, who's been saying that there was anything physical going on? It's not what I was implying. O.o I do believe there's a romance though.
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Post by GK Sierra on Jun 8, 2012 4:27:28 GMT
I'm confused, who's been saying that there was anything physical going on? It's not what I was implying. O.o I do believe there's a romance though. Oh, I was just agreeing with lightice. I'm sure that wasn't what you were saying, I was speaking generally.
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Post by Belrisa on Jun 8, 2012 6:01:21 GMT
Now I'm wondering if the chapter title comes from the phrase "To err is human, to forgive is divine." I'm sure this has been discussed and I just didn't see it, but I think it's because Zimmy is divine. Godlike. Mythological. A small drop of divinity badly wrapped in human skin.
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Post by negativeproximity on Jun 8, 2012 6:07:58 GMT
I think romance is simply a bad term to use. I think on one level, it's close, but on another level its entirely misdirecting.
When I think of courting, etc. Roses and poems. All in all, its pretty broad. But there's a lot of stuff that I think is naturally implied with "romance", beyond the physical, that I think is probably not involved in the Zimmy-Gamma relationship.
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Post by mojojojo on Jun 8, 2012 6:32:17 GMT
I think it's worth remembering that Zimmy is abusive towards Gamma, with the her telling Gamma that everyone thinks she is ugly and stupid. Although that's more a fear of losing her thing rather than malice.
I think Gamma/Zimmys relationship is non-standard, so doesn't ave a label. Very close friends is probably the best simplification though.
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Post by warrl on Jun 8, 2012 8:08:20 GMT
I just want to mention that Annie was seriously inaccurate in referring to Zimmy as a deranged psychopath.
Specifically, she is not deranged - she correctly perceives the world she lives in and responds appropriately to it. Granted, this world is not the same as the world most people live in. But: three people that we know of have been in it with her; Jones apparently can recognize its boundaries; the reality of it caused someone to seek her out and invite her and Gamma to Gunnerkrigg.
Also, she is not a psychopath. We've never seen her casually or maliciously destructive. She's rude to pretty much everybody, and occasionally mildly violent - but the world she lives in is dangerous, and her behavior pushes most people away. We've seen her polite and friendly to Gamma and Annie, the two other people we know can handle that world.
Zimmy also helped investigate the destruction of the science-fair projects; when she became aware of how big a problem Jack had after his Zimmingham visit and that Annie didn't know how to handle it, she took care of it and apologized for not recognizing and dealing with it sooner; now she's diving into a problem outside her direct experience, with no knowledge of how big it is or how to handle it or how dangerous it might be, because Gamma pointed out that she has the right kind of capability and Annie needs her help.
Zimmy doesn't hate other people; she protects as much as she can, and helps when she can help without compromising the protection. She even tries to be friendly - which she isn't very good at due to lack of practice - when it won't compromise the protection.
But I would add: Jack is NOT someone who can handle Zimmingham. Not from what we've seen so far, anyway. He should stay away from Zimmy. That's more likely to happen if he thinks Zimmy is a deranged psychopath. So while Annie was inaccurate in saying that about Zimmy, she wasn't necessarily wrong to say it to Jack. If he had heeded those words it potentially could save him from a second infestation - or something even worse.
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Post by Lightice on Jun 8, 2012 8:10:07 GMT
I'm confused, who's been saying that there was anything physical going on? It's not what I was implying. O.o No-one. My assumption simply was that one of the chief reasons some people don't consider the whole thing between Zimmy and Gamma romantic is because it's not physical. It's not a perfect description to a relationship that has no direct real-life equivalent, but in terms of how it defines the two, and their relationship with the rest of the world, I find it the best thing to go by. They're unrelated, the most important thing to each other in the world, they are uniquely inseparable, no third person could mean to either of them more...romantic relationship is just the best analogue to have. Not a perfect one, but a simple "friendship"-label just isn't enough. I've gotten the impression that she stopped doing that when Annie managed to communicate with Gamma, and didn't steal her away. Also, Gamma's wised up about it, or so it seems
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Post by GK Sierra on Jun 8, 2012 9:34:32 GMT
I think romance is simply a bad term to use. I think on one level, it's close, but on another level its entirely misdirecting. The usual. "Yes, but of course no except yes" preliminatory shoehorn thing. I hedge my bets too. Gotta be able to quote yourself in case of an epic "dude I so called it" moment.
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Post by TBeholder on Jun 8, 2012 9:39:50 GMT
I think romance is simply a bad term to use. I think on one level, it's close, but on another level its entirely misdirecting. The usual "Yes, but of course no except yes" pre-shoehorn motion? "But we agreed on yes? Or you want to discuss that again?" Zimmy also helped investigate the destruction of the science-fair projects She didn't "help" anyone. These two ran their own ambush and those two their. when she became aware of how big a problem Jack had after his Zimmingham visit and that Annie didn't know how to handle it, she took care of it and apologized for not recognizing and dealing with it sooner; Ah, no. She fixed Jack when he ran into her and apologized for not helping him earlier. So, Zimmy cares to shoo everyone away before things would go really bad, but doesn't check for etheric lice those who didn't ran in time. But I would add: Jack is NOT someone who can handle Zimmingham. Not from what we've seen so far, anyway. He should stay away from Zimmy. Jack obviously is aware of this, but also that Zimmy deals with such things all the time, so he may well have a romantic notion of becoming strong enough to deal with it and go help Zimmy. What reinforces this suspicion: what we saw of his chat with Annie about blinkers didn't touch any possible specific cool abilities - only generic power level.
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Pig_catapult
Full Member
Keeper of the Devilkitty
Posts: 171
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Post by Pig_catapult on Jun 8, 2012 23:45:33 GMT
I know it's a minor thing, but anyone else thinking the "million boyfriends" thing is actually referring to the fact there was a whole bunch of Jacks in that building in Zimmingham, rather than just a random potshot in the dark trying to hurt Annie's feelings by implying she's promiscuous? Seriously, am I the only one to find this page really creepy and oppressing, with all these memories/nobodies ganging up on Zimmy and restraining her? No, I'm definitely getting the danger klaxons, too, even now having seen the next page. If I didn't know that this is such a kid-friendly comic, I'd have been worried for Zimmy on Wednesday, because frankly those panels look like they're about to lead up to something R-rated and non-consensual.
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Post by Lightice on Jun 8, 2012 23:58:24 GMT
I know it's a minor thing, but anyone else thinking the "million boyfriends" thing is actually referring to the fact there was a whole bunch of Jacks in that building in Zimmingham, rather than just a random potshot in the dark trying to hurt Annie's feelings by implying she's promiscuous? It's most likely just a reference to the early part of the chapter, where dream-Annie is frolicking wih Kamlen and Jones. So Zimmy generalizes that she's just into teasing people that much. Though since she's being angry and scared, you shouldn't try to take that literally.
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Pig_catapult
Full Member
Keeper of the Devilkitty
Posts: 171
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Post by Pig_catapult on Jun 9, 2012 17:24:27 GMT
I know it's a minor thing, but anyone else thinking the "million boyfriends" thing is actually referring to the fact there was a whole bunch of Jacks in that building in Zimmingham, rather than just a random potshot in the dark trying to hurt Annie's feelings by implying she's promiscuous? It's most likely just a reference to the early part of the chapter, where dream-Annie is frolicking wih Kamlen and Jones. So Zimmy generalizes that she's just into teasing people that much. Though since she's being angry and scared, you shouldn't try to take that literally. You know, I'd completely forgotten about that. Never mind. XD
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