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Post by Refugee on Feb 2, 2011 18:57:25 GMT
Gorgeous art. [And folks, look up the roots of "gorgeous".] I think it's an overall representation of alignments. Kat's future (for now) is in the court while Annie's is in the forest. Absolutely. Moreover, Annie is bound to the forest, with the roots taking the place of the Coyote's Binding. And Kat is bound to Annie by Annie's hair, which has always been an important part of her self-perception in etheric space. On the other side, Annie's firehair, her power and her weapon, extend into the forest. Although Kat's sympathies are clearly with Court technology, nothing binds her but Annie's love. One more thing: Look at Jeanine's arrow/sword/heart. Now flip it up, and compare with Annie's antimony symbol — a symbol which itself consists of the alchemical symbol for female, crossed by a pair of arms upraised in worship or supplication. [edit] Has it been noted that the heart is, in fact, the Sacred Heart, a symbol that often appears in religious art? In some representations, it is completely pierced by a sword, but in this case, it is only partially pierced. And the point of the arrow is blocked by the raised arms of the antimony symbol.
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Post by noblemanofreason on Feb 2, 2011 19:10:03 GMT
I think it's an overall representation of alignments. Kat's future (for now) is in the court while Annie's is in the forest. It's also worth noting that neither girl is lit from "their" side, but rather seem to be catching the light from Jeanne. Jeanne herself is evenly lit - implying that whatever casts light on the forest and shadow on the court does not affect her. I agree with this assessment. However, my pessimistic side thinks this might lead to a rift between Annie and Kat, especially with Annie actions in the last chapter (cheating off Kat again, going off to the forest without even saying goodbye, etc). Considering they act as stability for each other, and they really don't have any other friends, this could lead to bigger problems (especially at a time when they don't know who to trust). The others (i.e. Eglamore, Jones, The Donlans, Renard) are probably going to give her a hard time as well, lending further to the problem. I am hoping that the above either doesn't happen, or is resolved quickly with Annie and Kat reconciling, as they need each other. The way I interpret the treatise, they represent the relationship the court and forest could have (no barrier between them), while Renard and Ysengrim represent the relationship the court and forest currently have (always watchful; on guard for any trick).
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Post by NinjaKid on Feb 2, 2011 19:13:30 GMT
I don't know if anyone else saw this, but when you go to the page select right under the comic, and find today's comic on it (the fourth treatise), 'treatise' is spelled wrong.
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Post by Refugee on Feb 2, 2011 19:19:56 GMT
I think it's an overall representation of alignments. Kat's future (for now) is in the court while Annie's is in the forest. It's also worth noting that neither girl is lit from "their" side, but rather seem to be catching the light from Jeanne. Jeanne herself is evenly lit - implying that whatever casts light on the forest and shadow on the court does not affect her. I agree with this assessment. However, my pessimistic side thinks this might lead to a rift between Annie and Kat.... This is a possibility...but I think the major point here is Annie acting as the conduit, the Medium, yes, between the Forest and the Court, with Kat more tightly linked to Annie than to the Court itself.
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Post by noblemanofreason on Feb 2, 2011 19:46:22 GMT
I agree with this assessment. However, my pessimistic side thinks this might lead to a rift between Annie and Kat.... This is a possibility...but I think the major point here is Annie acting as the conduit, the Medium, yes, between the Forest and the Court, with Kat more tightly linked to Annie than to the Court itself. I hope you are right. The whole friends to enemies drama has been done to death, and I think their deep friendship can survive this. Maybe, as you have already stated, the whole point is that Annie sees Kat as the last person she can trust in the court (and maybe last person anywhere, considering what the forest is like with Coyote and Ysengrin). Meaning if anything happens to Kat.... ...Well, things might get interesting.
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Post by Refugee on Feb 2, 2011 19:56:03 GMT
This is a possibility...but I think the major point here is Annie acting as the conduit, the Medium, yes, between the Forest and the Court, with Kat more tightly linked to Annie than to the Court itself. I hope you are right. The whole friends to enemies drama has been done to death, and I think their deep friendship can survive this. I am, however, prepared to see a temporary rift. I wish I could remember where I saw this, or even the exact words, but someone (Spider Robinson, maybe?) once wrote that the nice thing about friends is exactly that you have slack with them, that you can wound and be forgiven. That's something I don't see explored often enough. === Edit: Speaking of the Sacred Heart iconography, I could swear I've seen two doves appearing in exactly that pose in religious art as well. I don't know what the image is called, though.
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Post by fronzel on Feb 2, 2011 20:16:11 GMT
Kat is holding two pigeons -pigeons = nature, but Kat = technology. But pigeons are city birds(that kind, anyway). Pigeons are nature coming to an accommodation with technology.
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Post by Raph on Feb 2, 2011 20:34:33 GMT
Speaking of the Sacred Heart iconography, I could swear I've seen two doves appearing in exactly that pose in religious art as well. I don't know what the image is called, though. In religious iconography, they represent innocence, sacrifice and purity. Outside of that context they're a symbol for lovers, as it's already been pointed out. I could say these have got a little of both.
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Post by hargharg on Feb 2, 2011 22:20:46 GMT
Is it usual to wear a simple necklace like that? I mean, it looks like as if it's there to strangle Annie. (Which could be the case. It goes well with the "stay silent about this" thing.) Or am I Cpt. Obvious now? : D
Also: time to re-read the comic!
ed: or it could be that its like those bigger jewelries, where they cover a larger part of the chest. -_-
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Post by Refugee on Feb 2, 2011 22:25:38 GMT
Is it usual to wear a simple necklace like that? That's no "simple necklace"; that's Coyote's tooth.
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spheney
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Some say he stole Renard's body and lost it to coyote in a poker game, we know he's called the stig
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Post by spheney on Feb 2, 2011 22:31:29 GMT
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Post by hargharg on Feb 2, 2011 22:34:52 GMT
Is it usual to wear a simple necklace like that? That's no "simple necklace"; that's Coyote's tooth. DUDE, I know, have you read through what I wrote? But to simplify: is it usual to wear a necklace so it goes twice around your neck? ed: just didn't want to say it the zillionth time, the necklace being Coyote's Tooth. But there you go, you made me do it anyway. Bah!
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Post by smjjames on Feb 2, 2011 22:43:36 GMT
That's no "simple necklace"; that's Coyote's tooth. DUDE, I know, have you read through what I wrote? But to simplify: is it usual to wear a necklace so it goes twice around your neck? ed: just didn't want to say it the zillionth time, the necklace being Coyote's Tooth. But there you go, you made me do it anyway. Bah! I think those are two different pieces of jewlery, one is the choker necklace we've seen her wear before, the other is coyotes tooth. Alternatively, it could be a two piece necklace.
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Post by hargharg on Feb 2, 2011 22:47:54 GMT
Or that, thank you to clarify.
ed: God bless modify. -_- Where did we see it before? It isn't present on the earlier treatises, and I am still at the beginning with rereading.
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Post by smjjames on Feb 2, 2011 22:55:46 GMT
I don't remember where, but I think she has had it on at various points in the storyline.
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Post by hargharg on Feb 2, 2011 22:57:34 GMT
Would be good to know where, as I said, it isn't on any of the earlier treatises, so it could be another symbol. Well, I'll be on the lookout for it!
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Post by smjjames on Feb 2, 2011 23:03:42 GMT
I'm not absolutely sure that she has a choker necklace, but I swear I've seen her wear one at least once. She doesn't generally wear jewelery, so I guess it just isn't worn often.
I doubt it's another symbol and just meant to go along with the fancy dress.
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Post by hargharg on Feb 2, 2011 23:09:58 GMT
She does have her antimony necklace. Ah well, just wanted to drop it in there, no need to run circles around it. : )
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mariposa
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Hi, I'm Elise!
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Post by mariposa on Feb 2, 2011 23:15:51 GMT
I was thinking maybe the spider was Jack coming to visit Annie in the forest? I mean, the guy's stuck at the Court all summer, anyway. He could just tag along with Jones. I suppose this theory could also apply to Zimmy, maybe even more so, because Jack doesn't have a spider on him anymore, and I doubt Zimmy's heading home for the holiday. Maybe her spiders get set lose in the Forest and she gets cured? I suppose I should have posted in Wild Speculation, seeing as I'm making most of it up.
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Post by Refugee on Feb 2, 2011 23:17:25 GMT
That's no "simple necklace"; that's Coyote's tooth. DUDE, I know, have you read through what I wrote? My apologies, no, I did not check all your posts in this thread. (That is, I'm sure I read it, but I may not have recognized it as yours in particular. Again, my apologies.) I have seen that done, yes, but I too like the separate choker idea. Or a double-loop, like this.
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Post by rafk on Feb 3, 2011 1:33:29 GMT
Annie and Kat have gone from:
1. side by side; to 2. arm in arm; to 3. Kat leading Annie by the hand towards the Court (but Annie looking away towards the forest); to 4. Facing away from each other, with only strands of Annie's hair tying her back to Kat and nothing of Kat's connecting to Annie.
Annie's summer in the forest will see her physically apart from Kat for some time, of course, and it's not a new suggestion that Annie abandoning the planned holiday with Kat without so much as a by-your-leave will cause a bit of a rift, so this is more of a confirmation. It actually worries me more that while Annie's hair ties to Kat, there's nothing back the other way. It worries me nearly as much as the prospect that the spider is not yet done with Annie (or that it is connected with the forest in some way).
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mrjeeves
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Hasselin' the Hoff since 1993
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Post by mrjeeves on Feb 3, 2011 2:32:25 GMT
Mucho interesting. How can you see that? I really can't. She is gripping the pommel & tang with her left hand and the knuckle guard is positioned for a left-handed user. None of this means anything though as I just reviewed earlier comic pages and realized I was wrong. When swinging her sword she used her right hand. My mistake, sorry.
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Post by kinsman on Feb 3, 2011 4:12:18 GMT
Some folks have mentioned the sun and moon symbols in the top corners being bisected by a vertical line. When I first saw them it put me in mind of an eclipse, particularly as the moon symbol is darker on one side of the line than the other. Don't know what to make of that, it's just a thought.
Also I wonder if there is any significance to the fact that the vines twine around Annie's arm from wrist to shoulder (Upwards), while Annie's hair follows the opposite direction (downwards) around Kat's arm. Maybe it was just natural to draw them that way.
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Post by Geekette on Feb 3, 2011 5:00:03 GMT
That symbol at the top in the sky looks a lot like the sky symbol used to arrange meetings between forest and court. When you say it aloud, I can totally see the resemblance! So I think your right, in that its at least meant to be similar/familiar in shape to the symbols created by the blinker stones for meetings.
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Post by basser on Feb 3, 2011 9:10:47 GMT
That's no "simple necklace"; that's Coyote's tooth. DUDE, I know, have you read through what I wrote? But to simplify: is it usual to wear a necklace so it goes twice around your neck? I have to wear most of my necklaces like this if I don't want the charm or whatever lost down my shirt. Goes along with being a wee small girl with a thin neck.
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Post by meghatron on Feb 3, 2011 12:36:31 GMT
I wonder why I didn't notice fire associated with Annie in all four treatises before now. The last two it was especially prominent, it being a part of her hair, but in the first there's the burning bush and after that a torch.
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Post by smjjames on Feb 3, 2011 13:48:22 GMT
Speaking of noticing stuff, I'm seeing that Kat has been associated with something representing water/liquid near her in each treatise. Theres the stream, the hammer with the mercury symbol, and the moon.
I know this isn't the place for speculation, but I haven't really noticed any water elemental tendencies in her or dunno.
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Post by 0o0f on Feb 3, 2011 13:59:54 GMT
I wonder why I didn't notice fire associated with Annie in all four treatises before now. The last two it was especially prominent, it being a part of her hair, but in the first there's the burning bush and after that a torch. I know, right? I had never guessed, but looking back now, Annie being a literal firehead just seems so obvious.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 3, 2011 14:26:23 GMT
fronzel: I think that actually straightens out my symbolism interpretation somewhat, thanks - "nature coming to accomodate with technology", yes. And "we should be more like pigeons" seems an appropriate moral to take away from Gunnerkrigg Court. =)
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Post by hargharg on Feb 3, 2011 16:48:14 GMT
DUDE, I know, have you read through what I wrote? But to simplify: is it usual to wear a necklace so it goes twice around your neck? I have to wear most of my necklaces like this if I don't want the charm or whatever lost down my shirt. Goes along with being a wee small girl with a thin neck. I never had any necklace wearing girlfriends, or paid attention to my relatives customs about it. Thanks to you too for telling! : ) ed: though it just occured to me, I could've asked them now.
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