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Post by fronzel on Jan 7, 2011 21:55:00 GMT
Wow, it's just like one of my Japanese animes.
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mariposa
Full Member
Hi, I'm Elise!
Posts: 149
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Post by mariposa on Jan 7, 2011 22:02:43 GMT
Don't do it, Annie! While a summer in the forest does present lots of learning opportunities, the idea of Annie alone with just Coyote, Ysengrin, and forest creatures for company for an extended period of time scares me. Plus it would break poor little Kat's heart.
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Post by 0o0f on Jan 7, 2011 22:04:00 GMT
Personally I kind of wanted Annie to go on vacation with Kat and her family, but I think she might stay in the forest. Though maybe she points out that they haven't agreed on anything yet, but she probably doesn't have a lot of time to think about this. And she gets to stay there while still being able to leave later (sounds like that, anyway).
And since she has yet to stay in the forest for long, it would be an interesting change to the story.
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Post by djublonskopf on Jan 8, 2011 0:12:43 GMT
I think her dad might have something to say about this.
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Post by Refugee on Jan 8, 2011 0:13:54 GMT
I suspect that the Court will be within their rights to ground Annie as punishment OR at the very least forbid her from returning to the forest. Oh, I'm sure their petty little rules say something very like. The question is, though, what powers does Annie have, and is she willing to subject herself to Court rules? About the only they thing they can threaten her with is expulsion, and she may be powerful enough that the Court would rather have her on their side than Coyote's. On the other hand, I doubt Annie really wants to make the Court her enemy. She has friends there, she has a lot to learn, and I suspect living quarters in the Court are considerably more comfortable than in the Forest. On the gripping hand, Annie's on a very short clock, and if she's going to beat that, she likely is going to need help and training from both Court and Coyote. Negotiation is required, rather than fiat. I don't think Annie really wants to be fought over. She doesn't like either the Court or Coyote deciding for her, even in the guise of protecting her. She wants the truth, that's all, and the power to make life decisions for herself.
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Post by jayne on Jan 8, 2011 0:23:18 GMT
The girl is 13 and the court is responsible for her welfare. Even if she wished to stay in the forest, she wouldn't be allowed without consent from her parent or guardian.
Since the court IS her current guardian, Jones is right, she can take her as the representative of the court.
I believe a counter offer will be made such that Annie must return to the court at night but has free access to the forest.
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Post by todd on Jan 8, 2011 0:32:36 GMT
Since the court IS her current guardian, Jones is right, she can take her as the representative of the court. Except that to act as the Court's representative would run against her neutrality.
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Post by jayne on Jan 8, 2011 0:37:07 GMT
Since the court IS her current guardian, Jones is right, she can take her as the representative of the court. Except that to act as the Court's representative would run against her neutrality. Yes but which takes precedent? Is no one to act as the child's guardian? (Attention grammar geeks: did I use "precedent" correctly there... I'm not sure.)
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Post by Max on Jan 8, 2011 1:07:41 GMT
I got the sense that outside laws don't have a great deal of influence in the Court and Gillitie. It's not like they could just call in the police to arrest Coyote for kidnapping.
Meanwhile, I'm wondering what the situation looks like back at the Court. A whole crowd of officials running around in panic? Kat freaking out? Are they attempting to maintain a pretense that nothing is happening?
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myzelf
Junior Member
Posts: 83
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Post by myzelf on Jan 8, 2011 1:15:03 GMT
Stay in the Forest over the summer? Why not? It's not any more dangerous than the Court, and she needs to balance her understanding of the two worlds. The trick would be convincing Coyote to let her back into the Court.
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Post by todd on Jan 8, 2011 1:45:40 GMT
Are they attempting to maintain a pretense that nothing is happening? Knowing the Court, most likely the latter. Covering things up is one of its specialties.
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Post by q3 on Jan 8, 2011 2:05:12 GMT
Why do we think that Jones is somehow beholden to a position of neutrality, as opposed to merely being an agent of the Court who is nonetheless skeptical of the Court's methods and motives? All we have to support that theory is this exchange, in which she says that her apparent disinterestedness is irrelevant. "Irrelevant" here could very well mean something like, "It is in my personality to respect the flaws and strengths of each side in turn, but I am an agent of the Court for the moment, and pursue the Court's interests at every available opportunity." Especially when all of the circumstantial evidence points to her being firmly on the side of the Court--her standing by, and advising, the Headmaster; her having an office of her own, next to Eglamore's; her taking on the role of teaching the medium candidates, who will themselves be representatives/agents of the Court (despite being trained to see both sides); her demonstrations of authority during Spring Heeled; etc. I wonder if Jones no longer feels bound by her claim that, "While I will continue to instruct you, I will not be making your decisions. I leave the choice up to you."I think this is an offer Annie should sleep on, especially since she's not in the best decision making mood and Coyote is the one offering. I don't believe Annie really has that luxury. Exactly how many rules did she break to get to the forest? 1. She crossed the bridge 2. Ignored Eglamore's order 3. Attacked a teacher These are pretty serious offenses. I suspect that the Court will be within their rights to ground Annie as punishment OR at the very least forbid her from returning to the forest. "Miss Jones, I will agree to return with you IF you can promise me that I will not be punished or have my liberty restricted in any way for what has happened today. I also require one day to consider Coyote's offer. If you cannot promise me that, I will not go with you voluntarily. Don't make me angry."
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scrivener
New Member
He's just this guy, you know?
Posts: 3
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Post by scrivener on Jan 8, 2011 2:11:51 GMT
Wouldn't it better represent neutrality for Annie to spend time in the forest? It seems selfish and unreasonable for someone who is supposed to be balanced to spend all her time on one side of the border. Plus, it might make negotiations (etc.) easier if the forest creatures aren't afraid of her. I think a bit of compromising is in order, because this might turn out to be a better offer for the court than they might think at first glance.
Then again, they probably don't actually want true neutrality. They can rely on Annie's natural levelheadedness (although now we know how precarious that is) in lieu of actually being informed about both sides, and it's to their advantage to keep Annie on their side of the river.
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Post by King Mir on Jan 8, 2011 2:56:06 GMT
Not yet she hasn't. She's trying to appear neutral, and Coyote is holding her to it. But for whatever reason, Jones seems to want Annie to come back to the court right now. I'm not saying that Jones would take Annie against her will, but that's what Coyote is cautioning against. So, Jones arguing that Annie shouldn't stay means... well, that SOUNDS like she's acting in favour of the court. Jones, on the courts behalf, would want Annie back in the court. But then why would Coyote question her about it. If Coyote wants Jones to act neutrally... Wait.. he said "Are you truly acting in favour of the court" If you remove "truly", it could be he's accusing Jones of acting in favour of the court instead of neutrally. "Are you acting in favour of the court" "Are you honestly acting in favour of the court" "Are you really acting in favour of the court" Yes. As I said, Jones is trying to appear neutral, and Coyote is holding her to it. He's warning her that taking Annie by force (as if Annie has agreed to stay this instance) would violate neutrality. The reasons why Jones cares to be neutral are yet unknown. But Jones's desire to be neutral was previously emphasized in A Medium Beginning.
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Post by Stately Buff-Cookie on Jan 8, 2011 3:11:04 GMT
tom sucks. i'm gonna stop reading for three monthes so i don't have to WAIT Sir, I feel it my duty to inform you that not reading for three months so you don't need to wait would involve you.. waiting for three months.
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Post by jayne on Jan 8, 2011 3:23:31 GMT
So, Jones arguing that Annie shouldn't stay means... well, that SOUNDS like she's acting in favour of the court. Jones, on the courts behalf, would want Annie back in the court. But then why would Coyote question her about it. If Coyote wants Jones to act neutrally... Wait.. he said "Are you truly acting in favour of the court" If you remove "truly", it could be he's accusing Jones of acting in favour of the court instead of neutrally. "Are you acting in favour of the court" "Are you honestly acting in favour of the court" "Are you really acting in favour of the court" Yes. As I said, Jones is trying to appear neutral, and Coyote is holding her to it. He's warning her that taking Annie by force (as if Annie has agreed to stay this instance) would violate neutrality. The reasons why Jones cares to be neutral are yet unknown. But Jones's desire to be neutral was previously emphasized in A Medium Beginning. I believe Jones is some kind of watcher... neutral by design, not beholden to anyone, court or otherwise... BUT I believe Coyote is trying to trick her into acting on behalf of the forest by accusing her of acting on behalf of the court... I'm curious how this will play out... I don't see Jones as easy to trick but Coyote is very good at it...
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Post by Aris Katsaris on Jan 8, 2011 5:01:21 GMT
Don't do it, Annie!
You'll miss Kat, and also toilet paper.
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Post by blulink on Jan 8, 2011 6:43:24 GMT
Jones is not neutral! If she were, she would be the Court Medium. She acts impassive because she is impassive to Most things involving the Court. I think that anything that happens between the Court and the Forest, Jones has a neutral stance until it involves her or hers(possessive)well being. The Egyptians believed in reincarnation in a way, sometimes deities were reborn, so Jones might have been reborn as child and grew up with Surma's friends.
I love the art in panel 4 btw.
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Post by legion on Jan 8, 2011 6:58:57 GMT
Just as predicted, Annie will train under Cyote, gaining 1 million furyoku and god-class shaman abilities. Annie for Shaman King 2011. Hoowah. Man, stop saying that. Shaman King is a mediocre manga and you should feel terrible for comparing Gunnerkrigg Court to it.
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Post by scyllarus on Jan 8, 2011 7:25:37 GMT
preemptive strike: not accusing tom of a bad story. in fact, he does some pretty good humanization of characters - this is what is the base of this rant, i suppose.
once again, i want to slap the daylights (i suppose fire, in her case) out of annie. i wanted to do this when she ran to the forest, and i want to do it now. she's supposed to be levelheaded - i would go so far as to say that surma may have chosen anthony because of his levelheadedness, that it might pass onto his offspring by one route or another. she's not stupid, she's got friends and people who *care* about her in the court. sure, the court's not perfect - look at how upset kat got about diego's bad decisions! - but at least kat realized that they need to work to better the court. she didn't just pack a bag and run off to create a robot rebellion or somesuch.
what's she got in the forest? ysengrin? sure, ys probably has some respect for her. he may even care about her. but coyote...coyote doesn't care about anyone, i strongly suspect. he's a bloody trickster god. she knows this, she's heard his revelations, and she still acts like he actually wants to help her when he probably is simply using her to forward whatever plan he has. but she's still going to want to stay in the forest, not because she really believes that coyote'll help her control her inner feelings, but because she just wants to turn tail and run from the idea that her sainted mother wasn't the perfect person, after all. that the world isn't perfect.
all she's doing is acting on basic emotions, without even the semblance of caring about what happens to anyone else. not reynard, not kat, and if not those two than definitely not kat's parents or eglamore (who she doesn't like because...what, he doesn't like rey? why would he like rey? "hey, thanks for killing sivo, that guy was a giant drag, amirite?") who are going to be incredibly worried, or any of her other friends. arrrrgh.
i think i may be closest in character to ys. i'm pretty much angry because she's abandoning her friends and shirking her responsibilities.
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Post by hifranc on Jan 8, 2011 12:04:20 GMT
[...] You'll miss Kat, and also toilet paper. And private time.
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Post by blahzor on Jan 8, 2011 16:54:42 GMT
Why do we think that Jones is somehow beholden to a position of neutrality, as opposed to merely being an agent of the Court who is nonetheless skeptical of the Court's methods and motives? All we have to support that theory is this exchange, in which she says that her apparent disinterestedness is irrelevant. "Irrelevant" here could very well mean something like, "It is in my personality to respect the flaws and strengths of each side in turn, but I am an agent of the Court for the moment, and pursue the Court's interests at every available opportunity." Especially when all of the circumstantial evidence points to her being firmly on the side of the Court--her standing by, and advising, the Headmaster; her having an office of her own, next to Eglamore's; her taking on the role of teaching the medium candidates, who will themselves be representatives/agents of the Court (despite being trained to see both sides); her demonstrations of authority during Spring Heeled; etc. I wonder if Jones no longer feels bound by her claim that, "While I will continue to instruct you, I will not be making your decisions. I leave the choice up to you."I don't believe Annie really has that luxury. Exactly how many rules did she break to get to the forest? 1. She crossed the bridge 2. Ignored Eglamore's order 3. Attacked a teacher These are pretty serious offenses. I suspect that the Court will be within their rights to ground Annie as punishment OR at the very least forbid her from returning to the forest. "Miss Jones, I will agree to return with you IF you can promise me that I will not be punished or have my liberty restricted in any way for what has happened today. I also require one day to consider Coyote's offer. If you cannot promise me that, I will not go with you voluntarily. Don't make me angry." I'm starting to feel that it's almost if Jones is trying to keep Annie neutral instead. Like she doesn't want Coyote to spend that much time with Annie until some point in which she knows enough about the Court before learning more about the Forest so she can be mostly if not completely neutral when the time comes as being a Medium. Part Human Part Forest thing does a medium make
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Post by King Mir on Jan 8, 2011 17:23:43 GMT
preemptive strike: not accusing tom of a bad story. in fact, he does some pretty good humanization of characters - this is what is the base of this rant, i suppose. once again, i want to slap the daylights (i suppose fire, in her case) out of annie. i wanted to do this when she ran to the forest, and i want to do it now. she's supposed to be levelheaded - i would go so far as to say that surma may have chosen anthony because of his levelheadedness, that it might pass onto his offspring by one route or another. she's not stupid, she's got friends and people who *care* about her in the court. sure, the court's not perfect - look at how upset kat got about diego's bad decisions! - but at least kat realized that they need to work to better the court. she didn't just pack a bag and run off to create a robot rebellion or somesuch. what's she got in the forest? ysengrin? sure, ys probably has some respect for her. he may even care about her. but coyote...coyote doesn't care about anyone, i strongly suspect. he's a bloody trickster god. she knows this, she's heard his revelations, and she still acts like he actually wants to help her when he probably is simply using her to forward whatever plan he has. but she's still going to want to stay in the forest, not because she really believes that coyote'll help her control her inner feelings, but because she just wants to turn tail and run from the idea that her sainted mother wasn't the perfect person, after all. that the world isn't perfect. all she's doing is acting on basic emotions, without even the semblance of caring about what happens to anyone else. not reynard, not kat, and if not those two than definitely not kat's parents or eglamore (who she doesn't like because...what, he doesn't like rey? why would he like rey? "hey, thanks for killing sivo, that guy was a giant drag, amirite?") who are going to be incredibly worried, or any of her other friends. arrrrgh. i think i may be closest in character to ys. i'm pretty much angry because she's abandoning her friends and shirking her responsibilities. This is indeed preemptive and out of line. Annie's excitement about the possibility of staying at the forest is not undue. It is a good opportunity for her, and we expect her to get along better with the forest dwellers, then her fellow students. Further compounding her excitement is her anger at the court for both Jeanie and keeping her nature from her. It is natural for her at this time of weakness to see this s an escape. However, excitement is not an agreement, despite coyote's assertion, Annie hasn't agreed to anything. She hasn't shown decided to stay at the forest. So save your slaps until she actually does something stupid.
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Post by paxjax123 on Jan 8, 2011 23:14:33 GMT
preemptive strike: not accusing tom of a bad story. in fact, he does some pretty good humanization of characters - this is what is the base of this rant, i suppose. once again, i want to slap the daylights (i suppose fire, in her case) out of annie. i wanted to do this when she ran to the forest, and i want to do it now. she's supposed to be levelheaded - i would go so far as to say that surma may have chosen anthony because of his levelheadedness, that it might pass onto his offspring by one route or another. she's not stupid, she's got friends and people who *care* about her in the court. sure, the court's not perfect - look at how upset kat got about diego's bad decisions! - but at least kat realized that they need to work to better the court. she didn't just pack a bag and run off to create a robot rebellion or somesuch. what's she got in the forest? ysengrin? sure, ys probably has some respect for her. he may even care about her. but coyote...coyote doesn't care about anyone, i strongly suspect. he's a bloody trickster god. she knows this, she's heard his revelations, and she still acts like he actually wants to help her when he probably is simply using her to forward whatever plan he has. but she's still going to want to stay in the forest, not because she really believes that coyote'll help her control her inner feelings, but because she just wants to turn tail and run from the idea that her sainted mother wasn't the perfect person, after all. that the world isn't perfect. all she's doing is acting on basic emotions, without even the semblance of caring about what happens to anyone else. not reynard, not kat, and if not those two than definitely not kat's parents or eglamore (who she doesn't like because...what, he doesn't like rey? why would he like rey? "hey, thanks for killing sivo, that guy was a giant drag, amirite?") who are going to be incredibly worried, or any of her other friends. arrrrgh. i think i may be closest in character to ys. i'm pretty much angry because she's abandoning her friends and shirking her responsibilities. Kay, you're talking about stuff that hasn't happened yet in GUNNERKRIGG COURT. The comic that has to keep us guessing over and over again, yet you say this, and scold Annie about something she hasn't done yet.
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haunt
New Member
Posts: 14
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Post by haunt on Jan 9, 2011 0:37:31 GMT
A reminder: Annie hasn't expressed any opinion either way yet. She seems to have expressed interest by saying "I can...stay here?", but she's neither shot down nor accepted the offer.
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Post by todd on Jan 9, 2011 0:47:14 GMT
Though I certainly wouldn't put it past Coyote to keep on talking about the offer as if Annie *had* accepted it, in order to manipulate her into believing that she had - leading, in turn, to Annie accepting it simply because she believes that it's a "fait accompli".
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Post by rutland on Jan 9, 2011 2:00:41 GMT
all she's doing is acting on basic emotions, without even the semblance of caring about what happens to anyone else. not reynard, not kat, and if not those two than definitely not kat's parents or eglamore (who she doesn't like because...what, he doesn't like rey? why would he like rey? "hey, thanks for killing sivo, that guy was a giant drag, amirite?") who are going to be incredibly worried, or any of her other friends. arrrrgh. Well, look at it in the context of the story. Annie's only about twelve/thirteen, and she just found out that: 1) her mother, whom everyone's put onto a pedestal, was emotionally manipulative and used her current father figure, 2) said father-figure thinks her real father is worthless and never loved her or her mother, and 3) she killed her mom. And all of this was within a few hours. Of course she's going to freak out, responsibilities or not. She's supposed to be levelheaded, not a bastion of maturity -- and most kids her age would've freaked out similarly over one of those.
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Post by Stately Buff-Cookie on Jan 9, 2011 2:24:20 GMT
Rutland actually reminds me of something.
How does Annie currently view Renard? I don't mean in the context of him loving Surma and being manipulated or any of the current OH NOES DRAMA. I mean in the larger picture. Renard has clearly been acting as more and more a father to her, but Annie might not view it that way. I think she DOES care for him (given how she reacted when he was trapped), but in what manner?
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Post by King Mir on Jan 9, 2011 3:06:46 GMT
Though I certainly wouldn't put it past Coyote to keep on talking about the offer as if Annie *had* accepted it, in order to manipulate her into believing that she had - leading, in turn, to Annie accepting it simply because she believes that it's a "fait accompli". That's what Coyote is trying to do, but I don't think it will work on Annie. As someone already mentioned, her reaction to Mort in Blinking suggests that she might take offense to this tactic.
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Post by King Mir on Jan 9, 2011 3:16:53 GMT
Rutland actually reminds me of something. How does Annie currently view Renard? I don't mean in the context of him loving Surma and being manipulated or any of the current OH NOES DRAMA. I mean in the larger picture. Renard has clearly been acting as more and more a father to her, but Annie might not view it that way. I think she DOES care for him (given how she reacted when he was trapped), but in what manner? Clearly she does not view him as a father: "You're not my father Renard"Or at least she does not want to. In that instant She called him a friend. She has consistently responded positively to being told people care for her.
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